Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

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carmenjonze
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by carmenjonze »

Also from Aaron Rupar:

__________

Aaron Rupar
@atrupar

"Clearly, we need to make it far easier to confine the violent and mentally deranged into mental institutions," says Trump, before calling to politicians to "harden our schools" and for #DoorControl

[VIDEO]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1530299614590640140

__________


Somebody set the timer to see how long it takes these conservative numbskulls around here to start parroting these phrases, "harden the schools," "schools are soft targets," and "door control."

:problem:
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ProfX
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

You know what are especially soft targets? 10 year old kids, I understand an AR-15 round goes through them like butter. :|

"Door control". So, let's assume every school now has only one entrance, and it's forcibly locked, like a bank vault. Sure, that'll stop the guy who shoots out a window, and leaps into the building. I can't believe they are serious about this. (But then, I guess, iron bars on all the windows are coming?)

Of course, these are many of the same people who thought a Trump wall would keep border crossers out of our country.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
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carmenjonze
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 4:52 pm Face it - you tried to argue with ProfX and you lost. He has more of the facts than you do.

Fuck the cops. They let kids die that they didn't have to. But they were sure great at bullying the parents, weren't they?
They love watching cops abuse brown and other not-white citizens.

It's especially satisfying for them to watch brown cops do it.

Heck, what am I saying. We can hear a pin drop from these people even when it's white citizens. :problem:
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carmenjonze
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by carmenjonze »

ProfX wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 6:15 pm You know what are especially soft targets? 10 year old kids, I understand an AR-15 round goes through them like butter. :|

"Door control". So, let's assume every school now has only one entrance, and it's forcibly locked, like a bank vault. Sure, that'll stop the guy who shoots out a window, and leaps into the building. I can't believe they are serious about this. (But then, I guess, iron bars on all the windows are coming?)
Well, these ARE the school-to-prision-pipeline people...

:problem:
Of course, these are many of the same people who thought a Trump wall would keep border crossers out of our country.
One way in and one way out is a fantastic and pointless fire hazard.

But this is what these cons want for public schools -- destruction, defunding, and elimination, until everybody is as uninformed and ignorant as JoeMemphis, Greengrass, and Glennfs.
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Drak
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Drak »

If a weapon is so dangerous that a squad of cops are too afraid to confront a single person wielding it, then it should be banned.
"Some of those that work forces,
Are the same that burn crosses"

- Rage Against the Machine
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carmenjonze
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by carmenjonze »

ProfX wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 2:00 pm Dunno. First we were told the school resource officer (probably a retired cop; they usually are) fired at Ramos but he got past him. (It doesn't look like his tac vest was bulletproof ... so ... missed?) The story was a bit of a head scratcher. Now we know the reality: the school resource officer wasn't even onscene, never confronted Ramos - wasn't there. (*)

Let's be honest ... good guys with guns, whether pros (security guards or cops) or not, do not seem to be stopping these creeps. Speaking of mental health, Einstein said the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same shit over and over again and expecting different results. Well, this school already had a resource officer, a dedicated school police team, ... what does Abbott say? More schools need them. That'll fix things!

C'mon, yeah, this is insane. I got a radical idea, as in getting to the root of the cause: instead of turning our schools into fortresses, we take away the ability of civilians to use military grade weapons to assault them in the first place.

(*) MSNBC now reporting the resource officer may have driven right past the shooter in the parking lot, not knowing who he was ... but did not confront him.
Yes I would like to find a likeminded group to Election Protection, but one where I don't have to lie and claim to be nonpartisan, lol.

I'm also still really interested in bolstering our institutions -- NAACP and ACLU LGBTQ Rights division are top destinations.
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ProfX
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

I've only seen one rationale for why citizens should have semi-automatic military-grade weapons like the AR-15. (I again tend to avoid the term "assault weapon".)

"They are resistance against tyranny". Apparently, ordinary citizens need them because, I guess, having them keeps the gubmint at bay. Well, first off, they need to read the Constitution - the Militia existed for the opposite reason. (Protecting the government from armed insurrections, an early example being Bacon's Rebellion.)

But secondly, it's foolish. Sure. Your AR-15 is going to stop the drone with a hellfire missile from turning you into a grease spot, IF the gubmint wanted to be done with you. These people have Rambo fantasies, but running around the woods on weekends in cosplay camo is not saving America from tyranny, especially the closest variety, which is Trumpism ...
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 6:32 pm Yes I would like to find a likeminded group to Election Protection, but one where I don't have to lie and claim to be nonpartisan, lol.
The way I see it, it isn't liberals and Democrats who are doing all the voter caging and suppression. So they can claim to be nonpartisan, I guess they have to be, like the League of Women Voters, etc., etc. But we all know whose voter intimidation efforts they are stopping. :D

The best the "other side" can point to is a bunch of NBPP guys with a nightstick, hanging out around one polling place. Yep, that's the massive organized NBPP voter suppression effort. :D BTW, they were not trying to hit white people over the head who were trying to vote, :mrgreen: , anyway, but this is the best they've got on "bothsiderism".

Anyhoo ... I think fighting voter caging is still key, but it looks like a lot of the battlefront has moved to challenging mail-in ballots ... even given that they durn well know plenty of the older voters they court ALSO like to use mail-in ballots ... we also need lots of election lawyers, and this is why I will point people to Marc Elias' effort.

https://www.democracydocket.com/about-us/

That's his group, and I think there are lots of ways you can help them out, even if you're not a lawyer. :mrgreen:
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Bludogdem »

ProfX wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 6:36 pm I've only seen one rationale for why citizens should have semi-automatic military-grade weapons like the AR-15. (I again tend to avoid the term "assault weapon".)

"They are resistance against tyranny". Apparently, ordinary citizens need them because, I guess, having them keeps the gubmint at bay. Well, first off, they need to read the Constitution - the Militia existed for the opposite reason. (Protecting the government from armed insurrections, an early example being Bacon's Rebellion.)

But secondly, it's foolish. Sure. Your AR-15 is going to stop the drone with a hellfire missile from turning you into a grease spot, IF the gubmint wanted to be done with you. These people have Rambo fantasies, but running around the woods on weekends in cosplay camo is not saving America from tyranny, especially the closest variety, which is Trumpism ...
Seven states have assault weapons bans. Maryland’s ban was challenged in court and it was upheld. It was upheld on appeal. Scotus refused to grant Certiorari. Seems like this and abortion would be solid points of focus in state elections.
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Libertas
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Libertas »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 1:27 pm Inspired by Libertas and his work around vote suppression, I went and looked into Election Protection today.

https://protectthevote.net/

I want to do this in November. But I cannot commit to nonpartisanship, at this point. I am definitely partisan. Although, I do think everyone, including the MAGAs should have free and fair access to the ballot. They have not transformed this country into a fascist dictatorship of the corporation, yet.

But I can't commit to nonpartisanship. I am partisan as hell, closedminded as hell to every form of white conservatism, and IDC who knows it, or what they think about it. lol
Thank you and I will join you.

Maybe we can make a special thread here to coordinate doing this in our respective areas.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

I don't like the term "assault weapons". The problem with the 1994-2004 bill/ban (federal) was that it defined these weapons in terms of cosmetic features, and so many gun makers easily evaded it simply by changing the look of their product.

I wouldn't do things the same way. The focus should be on function, rather than form. Semi-automatic rifles AND pistols appear to be the problem for most mass shootings. The WV shooter (Cho) used two semi-auto pistols. Would I ban completely? Well, for sure, let's start talking about, at least for this class of weapons especially, talking about limitations, like age, training, permits, certification, etc. And pretty strict background checks.

But the combo meal that is really deadly, as it was in Uvalde, is semi autos plus large cap magazines. I believe the shooter had 375 rounds, in something like 12+ 30 round magazines. Chris Rock ain't wrong on this: we gotta talk about the ammo. I think we need magazine limits (to say 10 rounds), and possibly limiting how many mags you can buy in a time period. I mean, let me put it this way, if you want to buy 30 10 round magazines in a single day, somebody should talk to you like, "say, can we discuss the mass shooting you're planning?"
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Libertas »

ProfX wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 2:24 pm I think fighting voter suppression and onsite intimidation is important. I did some in 2020; as it turns out, so did my brother (first time he did this ever) up in NJ. I didn't see much where I was stationed nor did he, but again, for all I know, people were trying it out elsewhere. I can only go where I am told.

But I think Lib is right on this - what they are going to try and do is what they tried in 2020, at least post facto - claim the vote is invalid after the fact, too many mail in ballots coming with the sign of the Devil on them, or whatever; and we're going to see some Qcumber/Big Lie election officials try and deny the results as they come in. They just installed a guy like that in Wisconsin. The only way to fight that is with election lawyers. Support Marc Elias and people like him - they are doing the work of the angels.

Vote like hell, keep them honest after the polls close. And Lib, all I can tell you is, I agree with No6 that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. If I have to defend myself, though, I will. I refuse to discuss the means beforehand. This I will say: this teacher will quit before he brings a firearm in his classroom.
Thank you.

I will follow the lead of cooler heads, like yours.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 7:08 pm Seven states have assault weapons bans. Maryland’s ban was challenged in court and it was upheld. It was upheld on appeal. Scotus refused to grant Certiorari. Seems like this and abortion would be solid points of focus in state elections.
Supreme Court is getting ready to throw all that out.
With mass shootings in Texas, New York and California fresh in Americans’ mind, the Supreme Court will soon issue its biggest gun ruling in more than a decade, one expected to make it easier to carry guns in public in some of the largest cities.

Already in an uncomfortable spotlight over a leaked draft opinion that would overrule Roe v. Wade’s nationwide right to abortion, the justices also are facing a possible backlash from the guns case. In both cases the court could issue decisions that polls say would be unpopular with the majority of people in the United States.

“I think the court is heading into uncharted waters. I can’t recall the last time the Supreme Court ruled in so many cases likely to spark a strong political backlash,” said UCLA law professor Adam Winkler, an expert on the court and gun policy.

Winkler predicted the recent shootings would not do anything to change the outcome in the guns case, where the court’s conservative majority has been expected to strike down a New York gun law. “Pro-gun justices are pro-gun,” he said, adding it is not likely that recent mass shootings have done anything to change that.
A decision that will probably mean the next time that GOP insurrectionists try to attack our Capitol, they'll be able to be armed to the teeth. Which is what you guys want anyway, right?
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by gounion »

ProfX wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 7:20 pm I don't like the term "assault weapons". The problem with the 1994-2004 bill/ban (federal) was that it defined these weapons in terms of cosmetic features, and so many gun makers easily evaded it simply by changing the look of their product.

I wouldn't do things the same way. The focus should be on function, rather than form. Semi-automatic rifles AND pistols appear to be the problem for most mass shootings. The WV shooter (Cho) used two semi-auto pistols. Would I ban completely? Well, for sure, let's start talking about, at least for this class of weapons especially, talking about limitations, like age, training, permits, certification, etc. And pretty strict background checks.

But the combo meal that is really deadly, as it was in Uvalde, is semi autos plus large cap magazines. I believe the shooter had 375 rounds, in something like 12+ 30 round magazines. Chris Rock ain't wrong on this: we gotta talk about the ammo. I think we need magazine limits (to say 10 rounds), and possibly limiting how many mags you can buy in a time period. I mean, let me put it this way, if you want to buy 30 10 round magazines in a single day, somebody should talk to you like, "say, can we discuss the mass shooting you're planning?"
The current Supreme Court will overturn any laws we try to make.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by carmenjonze »

ProfX wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 6:46 pm The way I see it, it isn't liberals and Democrats who are doing all the voter caging and suppression. So they can claim to be nonpartisan, I guess they have to be, like the League of Women Voters, etc., etc. But we all know whose voter intimidation efforts they are stopping. :D

The best the "other side" can point to is a bunch of NBPP guys with a nightstick, hanging out around one polling place. Yep, that's the massive organized NBPP voter suppression effort. :D BTW, they were not trying to hit white people over the head who were trying to vote, :mrgreen: , anyway, but this is the best they've got on "bothsiderism".

Anyhoo ... I think fighting voter caging is still key, but it looks like a lot of the battlefront has moved to challenging mail-in ballots ... even given that they durn well know plenty of the older voters they court ALSO like to use mail-in ballots ... we also need lots of election lawyers, and this is why I will point people to Marc Elias' effort.

https://www.democracydocket.com/about-us/

That's his group, and I think there are lots of ways you can help them out, even if you're not a lawyer. :mrgreen:
Democracy Docket is great! Thanks for the link
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Libertas »

gounion wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 7:21 pm The current Supreme Court will overturn any laws we try to make.
They are about to make it so in NYC you can kill and carry etc even though the people there dont want that.

We are at ...oops, there I go again, I was about to use an AGGRESSIVE word but I am trying to not do that :evil: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:



https://twitter.com/senpizzo/status/153 ... yenZ-g8zaA

I’ll trade you all the moments of silence, for one moment of action.




https://www.theonion.com/the-pros-and-c ... ce=twitter
The Pros And Cons Of Letting Children Die
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Libertas »

Donald Trump's Chant Of Uvalde Victims' Names At NRA Rally Curdles Critics' Blood

ormer President Donald Trump’s mangled recitation of the names of the 21 Uvalde, Texas, mass shooting victims at the National Rifle Association’s convention on Friday made Twitter critics’ blood run cold.

The names of the 19 children and two teachers, broken up into hardly recognizable syllables in Trump’s stumbling pronunciation, were interspersed with the funereal sound of a gong.

Despite the tragedy, Trump hailed the NRA in his speech at its convention in Houston and ended his remarks with his trademark clenched fists and “cha-cha-cha” dance move.

He blamed the horrific bloodshed at yet another American school on “broken families” — and called efforts to curb gun violence “grotesque.”

Twitter users found the entire spectacle horrifying.



https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-in ... d2d023e909


Only in America...I am sickened to be neighbors with these people.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

Shooting timeline.

https://abc13.com/uvalde-texas-school-s ... /11901101/

This is the detail I find most interesting.

Feb. 28, 2022
In a four-person group chat on Instagram, Ramos discussed being a school shooter.
[snip][end]

Look, he sent some text messages to a girl "Cece" in Germany that same day ... but how is she going to contact U.S. authorities? She was just another young girl in Germany. She probably barely understood what was going on or what he was talking about.

Thing is: well, it looks like he was considering doing this for a while. BTW, one's really curious about why the other 3 people on that chat never told anybody else.
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Bludogdem
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Bludogdem »

ProfX wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 7:20 pm I don't like the term "assault weapons". The problem with the 1994-2004 bill/ban (federal) was that it defined these weapons in terms of cosmetic features, and so many gun makers easily evaded it simply by changing the look of their product.

I wouldn't do things the same way. The focus should be on function, rather than form. Semi-automatic rifles AND pistols appear to be the problem for most mass shootings. The WV shooter (Cho) used two semi-auto pistols. Would I ban completely? Well, for sure, let's start talking about, at least for this class of weapons especially, talking about limitations, like age, training, permits, certification, etc. And pretty strict background checks.

But the combo meal that is really deadly, as it was in Uvalde, is semi autos plus large cap magazines. I believe the shooter had 375 rounds, in something like 12+ 30 round magazines. Chris Rock ain't wrong on this: we gotta talk about the ammo. I think we need magazine limits (to say 10 rounds), and possibly limiting how many mags you can buy in a time period. I mean, let me put it this way, if you want to buy 30 10 round magazines in a single day, somebody should talk to you like, "say, can we discuss the mass shooting you're planning?"
The seven states have thorough definitions, specific names, styles, copies, and in depth descriptions. They learned from the federal failure. Pistols are included. Heller says it’s ok.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by Bludogdem »

gounion wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 7:21 pm Supreme Court is getting ready to throw all that out.



A decision that will probably mean the next time that GOP insurrectionists try to attack our Capitol, they'll be able to be armed to the teeth. Which is what you guys want anyway, right?
The New York case is limited to a concealed carry law. Has nothing to do with assault weapons. When pressed by 21 states and the NRA to grant certiorari to the Maryland assault weapons ban they said no. Heller says you can ban weapons.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

Bludogdem wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 9:41 pm The seven states have thorough definitions, specific names, styles, copies, and in depth descriptions. They learned from the federal failure. Pistols are included. Heller says it’s ok.
So, I looked those over, found the 7 states. Plus DC, that makes 8.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_w ... eapon_bans

Only one that seems not to be as comprehensive is Hawaii's.

Anyway, even HI's, seems they all deal with semi auto pistols, mag caps, and don't just use cosmetic appearance. Yeah, that's better.

Looks like good stuff. Just needs to be in more places. Like the whole country. I'd start with Texas and Florida of course (I'm joking, but only slightly. I mean it should happen, it just never will.)
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 9:46 pm The New York case is limited to a concealed carry law. Has nothing to do with assault weapons. When pressed by 21 states and the NRA to grant certiorari to the Maryland assault weapons ban they said no. Heller says you can ban weapons.
And Roe says you can have an abortion. The current Supreme Court plans to knock down all gun laws. Anything that is pushed through now won't stand.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by ProfX »

At the NRA convention, Trump said "we need to confine deranged people immediately".

Well, I sure know where I would start. :twisted:

Image

Something seems weird about a GOP that thinks teachers can't be trusted to talk to kids about gender, but should be trusted to tote firearms in a classroom.

MHO: guns in the classroom are a complete inversion of what normal pedagogy is supposed to be about. Teachers are often teaching students about how to resolve their conflicts without fighting and violence. Guns in the classroom subvert that.
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by carmenjonze »

Hey, how come the most corrupt grifters in Congress are always white supremacists and white nationalists, hm.

Senator who has received $1m from NRA runs into a locked door trying to avoid Texas shooting questions - Independent
Ron Johnson asked about gun control the day after 19 students and two teachers were killed in Texas massacre
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carmenjonze
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Re: Mass Shootings/Gun Control Reform Thread

Post by carmenjonze »

When all else fails, blame the games, blame the computer, blame technology.

Cuz it's got nothing to do with our ridiculous gun laws, the gun lobby, and incompetent, overindulged PD's.
__________

Andrew Kimmel
@andrewkimmel

Uvalde law enforcement state they didn’t enter the classroom because they thought the scene “transitioned from an active shooter to a barricaded subject”.


TX Dept of Public Safety chief Steven McGraw states law enforcement didn’t let parents in because 19 officers were already in the school and “there was plenty of officers to do whatever needed to be done” and that “from the benefit of hindsight” they made wrong decisions.


DPS chief Steven McGraw: “We haven’t gotten into the why [motive]. We know the individual was also into cyber gaming in that regard, and group gaming.”

https://twitter.com/andrewkimmel/status ... 5246146560
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