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 Post subject: Justice League
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:25 pm 
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So, let me give you my spoiler-laden review.

I am not avoiding spoilers, so if you don't like them, stop reading here.

** You have been warned. ** :twisted:

The reviewers have not been kind. And I can see many of the same flaws they did. It's clear some things have been pared out of the film - just watch the trailers, many scenes are missing. Some reshoots needed to be done when the film changed the hands at the director's wheel.

Alright, so let's start with the biggest obvious chestnut of all: Superman is back. BTW, some rumors about the film (some spread by Cavill himself) did not play out. There was some suspicion he'd come back in a black suit with a beard, and be a bad guy, until they brought him back over to the light side. However: they do bring him back from the dead using a Mother Box, and for at least a brief while, he is kinda confused, and angry, and so - wearing nothing but pants - he proceeds to attack the Justice League, especially Batman, once he sees him, since they have a 'BvS' history. Fortunately, they have the ultimate weapon at their side - Lois Lane - and he snaps out of it once he sees her.

There were some rumors the League would have 7 members, not just the 5 featured in most posters, and they certainly have set up Green Lantern to join. "A" Green Lantern is seen in one of the flashbacks, but he's from thousands of years ago. However, in in the intro, an animated Green Lantern is featured. It seems almost certain they will have him in the next JL. But you don't see him in this film. I have my doubts it will be Ryan Reynolds, he's busy being Deadpool and his solo film bombed.

Flash provides a lot of comic relief for the film, his character is supposed to be young and awkward, new to the superhero game, a bit different from the way he's portrayed on his TV show, by a different actor.
The Aquaman in many ways seems like an angry, mean-jerk drunk; he's kind of the Wolverine of the team, he's a dick to everybody, though there's a funny moment of truth when he sits on WW's magic lasso by accident. Incidentally, he never uses aquatic telepathy, but he does say at one point he can talk to fish, but he says "it's the water that does the talking".
Wonder Woman seems to be emerging as the leader of the team, but she's afraid to step into that role.
Cyborg is an interesting character - in most of the comics world, he's usually part of the Teen Titans - but for a variety of reasons, esp. his connection to the Mother Boxes, they make him part of the League.
The Batman does most of the recruiting in the film, which is interesting, since as Comm. Gordon reminds him (played by JK Simmons!), apparently ever since Robin died (something they allude to very briefly in BvS), "he used to prefer to work alone". I gotta admit, of the movie Alfreds, I kind of like the Jeremy Irons portrayal. Michael Caine was a cool Alfred, but Irons' is a lot more "hands-on".

The film was supposed to set up the larger threat of Darkseid (who is Steppenwolf's superior) but it seems some of the edits were to make it more standalone. Darkseid and Thanos are very similar characters in the DCEU vs. MCU, as people have noted. The post-post credits scene seems to be suggesting Lex Luthor may be setting up the anti-JL of the Legion of Doom. Perhaps they will be the villains of #2, you also see Bruce Wayne beginning to buy and set up their own HQ of the Hall of Justice.

My guess is #2 (if they do a sequel; it's obviously been set up) will definitely feature Green Lantern, I mean he's in the intro to the movie. Then the question is who else will they add to the roster? First up are a lot of options from the DC TV shows -- like Hawkman/Hawkwoman, Firestorm, Atom, and Vixen, who have all been on Legends of Tomorrow; or also (Green) Arrow, & Martian Manhunter (who is on Supergirl).

Ironically, Atom on Legends is played by Brandon Routh, who WAS Superman in Superman Returns.

It's not clear where the DCEU will go from here. Unlike Marvel, they haven't been hitting it in the box office, and it looks like this movie won't do great. It's too bad, because a sequel where they build up the team and get their shit together cinematically might be good. I didn't think it was so bad - Suicide Squad was a lot worse. But then that may not be saying much.

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 Post subject: Re: Justice League
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:30 pm 
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I read the review in the Chronicle. Why do critics play so heavy handed, I dunno.

Too many "Super Heroes". Thanks Chron. Mozart, "Too many notes."

I look beyond flaws to something lasting. I haven't seen it yet, though I probably will, sooner or later. I'm not a big super hero movie fan. I like Zorro, because he's just a guy, and Iron Man who is a guy with a lot of flaws. Wonder Woman the movie is an exception in an exceptional way.

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 Post subject: Re: Justice League
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Dunno, one of my favorite graphic novels, a comic book for adults, as they say, is Watchmen.

It's an interesting story. I know you like philosophy, so there's two kinds in there. One is a meditation on society, and that old phrase, "who watches the watchmen". Well, someone definitely should have been keeping an eye on Rohrshach and Comedian, because they both were sociopathic. As for Ozymandias ... well, he had a megalomania problem. The rest is spoiler, :D . In comparison, Night Owl was just neurotic, couldn't get it up without his costume.

Watchmen kind of points out an obvious fact about the superhero genre: maybe a lot of people who run around in masks and tights acting all vigilante are just out of their mind and could be RWNJs. The Watchmen are preceded by an earlier team in the 40s, one of whose members, Hooded Justice, practically wears a purple Klan outfit, just to drive the point home. Apropos for the current moment, the Comedian, who actually was part of that first team, tried to rape one of the female members, and is stopped by Hooded Justice.

There is only one character with anything remotely like "super powers," and he's so godlike, he's losing touch with humanity - Dr. Manhattan. His powers are beyond reckoning, he can rearrange atoms and molecules of anything, I guess he could have ended the Earth if he wanted to. Everybody else runs around in tights and uses various gadgets or tricks, like Batman. Night Owl basically seems to be the Watchmen's version of Batman.

The other graphic novel Alan Moore did was V for Vendetta, I understand that's popular with the kids these days and their Guy Fawkes masks.

Also, incidentally, the League of Extraordinary Gentleman, which seems to basically take a lot of heroic folks from 19th century British literature and turn them into a team. Tom Sawyer makes up the American contingent. And From Hell, where Johnny Depp goes after Jack the Ripper psychically with a mixture of absinthe and laudanum. From Hell makes an identification of Jack the Ripper, unfortunately seems to imply both the Royal Family and Freemasons were protecting him & his identity.

Should add The Watchmen movie is a very faithful rendering, at some points frame for frame, of the graphic novel. It really did all of the characters a nice amount of justice - in all their complexity. The interesting thing is at one point Moore said he based Rohrshach on another DC hero The Question, who believe it or not was supposed to have based his philosophy on Ayn Rand's. (Rohrshach's moral ambiguity is just to point out Moore is not in any way an Objectivist.) Rohrschach's last act is to mail his journal to a RW magazine he subscribed to - his views of society and criminals are very Trumpian - kind of ends the story - ok that was a spoiler. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Justice League
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:37 pm 
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Oh and one more thing -- the first "official" teaser trailer for Avengers: Infinity War dropped today (as opposed to leaked footage from Comic-Con.)

Captain America seems to have gone Nomad. BTW, Thor seems to wind up on the windshield of the Guardians of the Galaxy. I would say the post-credits scene of Ragnarok shows how that may have come about. ... :D It doesn't appear he's getting Mjolnir back. He might show up with an axe. BTW, despite what you saw in the first movie, apparently the magic of thunder and lightning was inside him all along, and he only needed Mjolnir for "focus".

It's clearly "all in" with everybody from the recent MCU, including Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, and Black Panther. It looks like the Vision is getting killed. I mean shit, he was just born yesterday. :mrgreen: The one character who apparently won't be in #3 (but might be in #4) is "Captain" (Ms.) Marvel.

I just got finished watching "Crisis on Earth-X" (the DCU TV "crossover event".) Spoiler warning issued.

1) On Earth-X, the Nazis won WW II and took over the world. Worse yet, after Hitler died in 1994, guess who became World Fuhrer? Oliver Quinn, aka Black Arrow, whose wife is ... "Overgirl" (that world's version of Supergirl). Looks like they are setting up a series called "The Ray" which will be set on Earth-X. Spoiler: they will need a new Fuhrer? (Green Arrow kills Black Arrow, Overgirl ... explodes.)
2) Barry marries Isis, AND Oliver marries Felicity.
3) Supergirl's sister Alex hooks up with Sarah Lance, the leader of the Legends of Tomorrow. As they live on different Earths, and Sarah travels through time, this will probably be a very long distance relationship. :D
4) One half of Firestorm, Prof. Martin Stein dies. They were talking about figuring out a way to give all of Firestorm's power to Jax so Stein would no longer be needed. They failed. This seems to also be the end of Firestorm. :cry:
5) Somehow, Eobard Thawne/Reverse-Flash is still alive, despite being killed several times. Well, so is Leonard Snart, but this seems to be due to alternative universes, not time travel.
6) Did I mention Zari, the Muslim social justice warrior hacker from a dystopian future with a magic amulet, gets a uniform? :mrgreen:

P.S. at one point, Supergirl fights her counterpart Overgirl, and issues a classic line ... "General, would you like to step outside"? :rw)

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 Post subject: Re: Justice League
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Liked the end of Ragnarok with Thor and Loki.

I did like Wonder Woman although I am a big Marvel fan from childhood. My brothers and I did read DC a bit but back in the "60's the characters were just undeveloped and their powers, especially Superman's, were way over the top. I did like Metal Men though. Marvel characters seemed much more like regular humans with issues. Of course when a bunch of the Marvel writers/artists went to DC things improved on that end. By that time I was out of comics and into Heinlein.

BTW, Prof., the Nomad thing with Steve Rogers is understandable as you likely know.

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 Post subject: Re: Justice League
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:58 pm 
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I did like Wonder Woman although I am a big Marvel fan from childhood. My brothers and I did read DC a bit but back in the "60's the characters were just undeveloped and their powers, especially Superman's, were way over the top. I did like Metal Men though. Marvel characters seemed much more like regular humans with issues.


Sure. Tony Stark struggled with alcoholism. Oddly enough, in real life, I believe, so has Robert Downey Jr. Marvel should not have gotten rid of the shrapnel in his chest in Iron Man 3; it was so defining of his character, part of his vulnerability. Also, Marvel had characters like the Hulk, who were heroes, but could also get dangerously out of control.

Harry Osborne also struggled with drug addiction. Then you had characters like the Punisher, who really straddle the hero/antihero/vigilante line. "What section should I read? Obituaries."

I hope they do a Black Widow solo movie, or at least dig into her backstory. She's carrying red in her ledger, at one point she was a programmed KGB assassin, it obviously still haunts her. Like she told Banner: "you think you're the only monster on the team?"

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BTW, Prof., the Nomad thing with Steve Rogers is understandable as you likely know.


Well, cinematically, he has obviously arrived at a certain moment, where it makes sense to become a man without a country (that was Nomad in the early 70s).

Obviously, now, just as then, it also makes sense to some extent relating to where we are in historical reality. (Nomad actually fought against Richard Nixon.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/com ... c98d229bec

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 Post subject: Re: Justice League
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:04 pm 
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Maybe they are working up to Aquaman firing everybody and moving to a Detroit wharehouse to start over with a new group of superheroes.

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 Post subject: Re: Justice League
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:38 pm 
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Sure. Tony Stark struggled with alcoholism. Oddly enough, in real life, I believe, so has Robert Downey Jr. Marvel should not have gotten rid of the shrapnel in his chest in Iron Man 3; it was so defining of his character, part of his vulnerability. Also, Marvel had characters like the Hulk, who were heroes, but could also get dangerously out of control.

Harry Osborne also struggled with drug addiction. Then you had characters like the Punisher, who really straddle the hero/antihero/vigilante line. "What section should I read? Obituaries."

I hope they do a Black Widow solo movie, or at least dig into her backstory. She's carrying red in her ledger, at one point she was a programmed KGB assassin, it obviously still haunts her. Like she told Banner: "you think you're the only monster on the team?"



Well, cinematically, he has obviously arrived at a certain moment, where it makes sense to become a man without a country (that was Nomad in the early 70s).

Obviously, now, just as then, it also makes sense to some extent relating to where we are in historical reality. (Nomad actually fought against Richard Nixon.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/com ... c98d229bec

Iirc, the Iron Man issue re: Stark’s alcoholism was called Demon in a Bottle.

If I heard it correctly in the Infinity War trailer, T’Challa says “get this man a shield” which I assume means a new vibranium shield for Cap/Nomad (if they change his name).

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 Post subject: Re: Justice League
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:44 pm 
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Dunno, Thor will be without Mjolnir. Rumor has it he may use the axe Jarnbjorn (sp?) instead which was seen in some early comics. It seems wrong for Cap/Nomad to not have a shield.

Of course, if he follows through with the Nomad man without a country theme/appearance, it won't have the RWB colors of "America" on it anymore.

Wakanda apparently has lots of vibranium, I think Black Panther's suit is made out of it, they probably have enough to make a new shield.

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 Post subject: Re: Justice League
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:53 am 
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Not gonna reads this until I sees it.

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