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 Post subject: McJesus
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:14 pm 
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‘McJesus’ art sculpture in Israeli museum sparks violent protests
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing ... t-protests

A sculpture in an Israeli art museum of Ronald McDonald nailed to a cross has sparked outrage and violent protests among the country’s Arab Christians.

Hundreds of Christians in Israel are protesting and calling for the sculpture, titled "McJesus," to be removed from the Haifa Museum of Art, according to The Associated Press.

Police told the AP that rioters threw a firebomb at the museum and crowds of protesters had to be dispersed using teargas and stun grenades last week.

Local church leaders took the issue to court Monday, asking a judge to order the sculpture be removed, along with other items the church deemed offensive.

Museum director Nissim Tal told the AP she was surprised by the backlash the museum received for featuring the sculpture, which is meant to bring awareness to and criticize society’s obsession with capitalism.

[snip]

So far, the museum has said it will not remove the artwork, citing freedom of expression. However, since the protests took place, the museum now hangs a curtain over the entrance to the exhibit where the sculpture is on display and posted a sign saying the art is not meant to offend anyone.

“This is the maximum that we can do,” Tal said. “If we take the art down, the next day we’ll have politicians demanding we take other things down and we’ll end up only with colorful pictures of flowers in the museum.”

He added that the museum “will be defending freedom of speech, freedom of art, and freedom of culture, and will not take it down.”

[snip][end]

BTW: the creator of the piece is Finnish, not Israeli, although it's on display in an Israeli museum.

I personally think it is not, per se, an attack on religion or Christianity, but, in fact, a piece of ironic commentary.

I certainly support the museum not caving in to the philistines. Word choice deliberate.

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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:24 pm 
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What is the beef?

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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:44 pm 
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Lo t'vasheil g'di!


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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:34 am 
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[quote="ProfessorX » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:14 pm"]Image

His last words were:"Would you like fries with that order?"

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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:36 pm 
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good one

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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:13 pm 
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Lo t'vasheil g'di!
that would really only relate to cheeseburgers.


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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:05 pm 
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that would really only relate to cheeseburgers.


I think it would apply to all of the burgers which are cooked on the same grill as the cheeseburgers. That it would also cross foul the pork products, pancakes and eggs the following morning because they are cooked on the same grill using the same spatulas.

Perhaps the fries and those so called "pies" they cook in the deep fat fryer would stand a chance. And they do sell salads.


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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:29 pm 
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The new meat Micky is using is better than the old meat.

In N Out is run by rightwing xtians.

Where is a guy to get a burger?

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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:54 pm 
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Well, I start at the supermarket buying the beef. I make the bread at home.

It usually goes into a freezer as soon as I've pressed the beef out into patties.

Then as I want them, out of the freezer into a pan on on the stove they go, still frozen. After searing the frozen patty down to the hot pan surface, cover, about three minuets on one side, followed by three on the other.



There's salt and stuff, I only covered the basics.


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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:17 pm 
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The artist asked to have it taken down

Quote:
........The Finnish artist behind the “McJesus” sculpture, Jani Leinonen, also called for the piece to be removed, though for other reasons.

“I joined the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement, that upholds the simple principle that Palestinians are entitled to the same rights as the rest of humanity,” Leinonen told the Jerusalem Post. “Israel overtly uses culture as a form of propaganda to whitewash or justify its regime of occupation, settler-colonialism, and apartheid over the Palestinian people. Therefore I do not wish to be part of this exhibition, and I asked the museum to take my artwork off the exhibition.”.........


Angela Davis Speaks Out on Palestine, BDS & More After Civil Rights Award Is Revoked

Quote:
......... I think this ideological effort to equate anti-Semitism with much-needed critiques of the policies and practices of the state of Israel and the expressions of solidarity with the Palestinian people should be revealed for what it is. And I am hoping that we will hear more Jewish people speaking out. I know that Jewish Voice for Peace has done an amazing job over the last period, and I’ve done work with JVP. But I think this is a period when, as Jews were the first white people to step up during the civil rights era, to speak out against racism, I think that we need to engage in the kind of conversation that will reveal the true meaning of anti-Semitism and help us to extricate ourselves from this McCarthyite effort to equate boycott strategies and solidarity strategies with anti-Semitism..........

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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:40 am 
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“Israel overtly uses culture as a form of propaganda to whitewash or justify its regime of occupation, settler-colonialism, and apartheid over the Palestinian people. Therefore I do not wish to be part of this exhibition, and I asked the museum to take my artwork off the exhibition.”.........


So: on the one hand, it's his work, he has the right to request the gallery take it down. They should respect his wishes. The people attacking the exhibition ... well, they're wrong.

BTW, so is he. He is making a statement about people who work in the arts in Israel and artists that I think is a lie. He's welcome to feel it. I will tell him he's wrong.

Does the state in many countries use art for propaganda? Sure. Are all artists complicit in that activity? We could talk about the U.S. - we both know this is not true - it's not different in Israel.

This is why I oppose the academic and cultural boycott of Israel. I find it fascinating that occasionally the same people will say the U.S. should not boycott artists from Cuba, then turn around and say they should boycott artists from Israel. I never see any consistency in their logic. Obviously, not all artists in Cuba are complicit with the regime. Not all artists in Israel are fans of Netanyahu.

In fact, all the ones I know, are not.

Quote:
I think this ideological effort to equate anti-Semitism with much-needed critiques of the policies and practices of the state of Israel and the expressions of solidarity with the Palestinian people should be revealed for what it is. And I am hoping that we will hear more Jewish people speaking out. I know that Jewish Voice for Peace has done an amazing job over the last period, and I’ve done work with JVP. But I think this is a period when, as Jews were the first white people to step up during the civil rights era, to speak out against racism, I think that we need to engage in the kind of conversation that will reveal the true meaning of anti-Semitism and help us to extricate ourselves from this McCarthyite effort to equate boycott strategies and solidarity strategies with anti-Semitism..........


So I will say I often find this puzzling. Many people who call themselves progressives would not agree that white people should dictate to black people what black people call racism.

Yet, they as non-Jews feel they have the right to tell Jews what we can and can't call anti-Semitism. Again, where is this consistency?

BTW, I do not think Angela Davis should have not received that award. On the other hand, she and the British Labour Party do not have the right to tell me what I should view as anti-Semitism. I accept the IHRA definition. Why shouldn't I? Why do other people have the right to dictate to me that I shouldn't?

Of course all criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitic. On the other hand, if you're going to bullshit me that Alice Walker is "merely" "anti-Zionist" when it's clear she's far more, you are bullshitting me. And I don't care if you think doing this is progressive - it's not.

I don't like Santa Claus tests. So I'm a naughty Jew if I don't agree with JVP's view on anti-Semitism. You know what? Fuck them. I don't. I accept the IHRA's definition. Jeremy Corbyn and the British Labour Party should too.

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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:17 am 
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I think it would apply to all of the burgers which are cooked on the same grill as the cheeseburgers. That it would also cross foul the pork products, pancakes and eggs the following morning because they are cooked on the same grill using the same spatulas.

Perhaps the fries and those so called "pies" they cook in the deep fat fryer would stand a chance. And they do sell salads.
Yeah...my comment related to the phrase posted, not McDonalds.

Nothing at McDonalds is kosher, period. Well, maybe some prepackaged and still sealed cookies, some prepackaged and closed condiments and, some might argue soft drinks, and black coffee. No fries. No pies, especially if they were in their fryer. No salad (though I guess its possible, I dont know) some sealed packages of salad dressings might be kosher.

There are however some kosher McDonalds in Israel (identified by blue signage, rather than red) and, I believe, in Argentina.


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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:21 am 
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Jani Leinone....Angela Davis

Both idiots. But, I guess its their rights to be idiots.

As to whether Leione has the right to say it his art shouldn't be displayed in Israel...again, he can say whatever he wants. But if he sold the piece, he doesn't have a say any longer. TFL. Seems like, ultimately, he's more interested in profit than principle. So he can make a statement that makes him feel progressive, but meaningless.


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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:38 am 
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Yeah...my comment related to the phrase posted, not McDonalds.

Nothing at McDonalds is kosher, period. Well, maybe some prepackaged and still sealed cookies, some prepackaged and closed condiments and, some might argue soft drinks, and black coffee. No fries. No pies, especially if they were in their fryer. No salad (though I guess its possible, I dont know) some sealed packages of salad dressings might be kosher.

There are however some kosher McDonalds in Israel (identified by blue signage, rather than red) and, I believe, in Argentina.


For while, several years, some of my cousins tried to produce kosher beef. There was a certification they had to hold. The shipped the livestock to the slaughter house who took care of most of the difficult aspects of certification.

I wasn't there, I just herd about it. Difficult was the watch word about what I herd. I think it was a case of trying to achieve both organic and dietary law compliance at the same time. The idea was to produce premium trendy food. When i was hearing about it after they had done it for three years or so years, and then had given up, then and a couple more years had passed,,, what my cousins expressed about it was having to deal with difficult people way past what the value of the reward was.

Raising kosher beef is not for everyone. :|


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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:57 am 
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Raising kosher beef is not for everyone. :|

I wouldn't think that 'raising' kosher beef would be so much different...though it would be required that the animals are completely healthy, especially at the time of slaughter. It's the slaughter and processing that is quite different. Plus much, maybe half or more, of the animal cannot be kosher. I'm assuming those parts are then sold to non-kosher processors to use.


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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:09 pm 
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As to whether Leione has the right to say it his art shouldn't be displayed in Israel...again, he can say whatever he wants. But if he sold the piece, he doesn't have a say any longer. TFL. Seems like, ultimately, he's more interested in profit than principle. So he can make a statement that makes him feel progressive, but meaningless.


Different galleries have different arrangements. If he sold the art piece to that gallery, it's their property. He may have been the creator, but they are the owners.

If he lent them the piece to put on exhibition ... he can ask them to take it down. I'm not sure where the law in Israel would rule if this went to the courts.

BTW, as I said, I don't agree with his views/support of cultural BDS/refusal to exhibit in Israel; I'm merely talking about his rights as an artist.

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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:31 pm 
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I wouldn't think that 'raising' kosher beef would be so much different...though it would be required that the animals are completely healthy, especially at the time of slaughter. It's the slaughter and processing that is quite different. Plus much, maybe half or more, of the animal cannot be kosher. I'm assuming those parts are then sold to non-kosher processors to use.


I would think the non-kosher parts mostly become non-kosher hamburger. I would think that was the case for back in the time when Jewish butcher shops received shipments of whole beef haves.

They may not have ground much of it, but I don't think they threw it away before the time of mass produced hamburger. Stew meat was what hamburger meat became before the times when powered grinding equipment became standard meat shop equipment.

A meat shop now needs to have three phase power. The grinder is usually the largest load on the system, not followed much by the refrigeration compressors. 7.5 to 10 horsepower grinders are not uncommon. Three phase is need produce the continues torque demands of a lugging kind of load. A single phase motor of even that horsepower will cycle in and out it's start winding's, and after too much of that kind of abuse they will burn out.


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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:39 pm 
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Alice Walker is "merely" "anti-Zionist" when it's clear she's far more


dont really know what that means

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 Post subject: Re: McJesus
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:01 pm 
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Alice Walker supports the ideas of David Icke. Besides being a rabid anti-Semite, he believes there are 5th dimensional lizard beings ruling the world. 'Nuff said.

She has on her blog a "poem" about the Talmud that repeats a number of lies about it that go back to the Middle Ages.

Her daughter, who is Jewish, (so was her ex husband) no longer speaks to her because of her anti-Semitism.

She regularly recommends youtube videos to people which are full of rabid anti-Semitic CTs.

Here's a good explanation of it.
https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/12/20/ ... york-times

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