Reasons to have an HOA!

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gounion
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Reasons to have an HOA!

Post by gounion »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVQjEB2sxBw

You'd play hell selling a house next to THESE idiots!
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Number6
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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gounion wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:28 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVQjEB2sxBw

You'd play hell selling a house next to THESE idiots!
In the above, the county should have an ordinance about how much stuff can be in a person's yard. I know in San Diego, they've had a couple of cases where a hoarder's front and backyard were so stuffed with junk it posed a health hazard to the community.

HOAs can be good or bad. Most of the horror stories you hear about HOAs are from developments or gated communities where there are a large number of homes. Those HOAs have rules about whether you can have a car in a driveway, whether the garage door must stay closed, etc... Other HOAs, like the one I belong to, are small (10 units) are flexible and have few rules. The last time we updated our CCRs was about 10 years ago to limit short term rentals and how many large animals can be in one unit. The smaller the HOA the easier it is, at least in my HOA, to get agreement on things. Last month, at our annual meeting we discussed our budget, which was readily accepted, and our reserves and three-year reserve study. The reserve study suggested we do a special assessment of $323 a month per unit for one year on top of our $375 monthly HOA fee. A motion was made and it passed. Had this been proposed at a larger HOA the chances it would cause a lot of distension as well as division among the homeowners.
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

Post by Glennfs »

Reason not to have an HOA so you can enjoy the freedom and privilege of ownership. Meaning you can do what you want when you want within reason on your property.
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gounion
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:12 am Reason not to have an HOA so you can enjoy the freedom and privilege of ownership. Meaning you can do what you want when you want within reason on your property.
"Within reason"???

Was the person in the video "within reason"? Nope. But there's nothing you can do.

My HOA will end up with around 700 homes. This is my second HOA. I'm perfectly happy with them.
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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Unless it's a flagrant violation that could cause harm to others........When it comes to some of my neighbors who's yards become cluttered with treasures........As i tell the cities yard nazi's that come around asking about my neighbors clutter and whether or not i'm concerned....i tell them..."i can only see as far as my property line."
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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No, see, this isn't the country, in big cities there has to be someone making rules. Every place I've ever lived has had an HOA, and usually several pages of restrictive CC&Rs. Without them, there's no legal recourse when someone does something psychotic like allow 6 feet tall junk piles all the way out to the property line. Some of the CC&Rs are usually illegal, and would never hold up in court, and everybody knows it. Some are stupid, like in one conservative neighborhood that technically banned flagpoles and other such additions to properties, but still encouraged everyone to display Our Great Country's Flag.

Usually there's also one that is not only illegal but morally wrong, namely whites only. It's always lined out, because they're too cheap to hire lawyers and write a whole new CC&R document. Fortunately I've never had to live anywhere stupid enough not to welcome neighbors of all races.
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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Racial covenants, a relic of the past, are still on the books across the country - NPR
"I heard the rumors, and there it was," Selders recalled. "It was disgusting. It made my stomach turn to see it there in black-and-white."

What Selders found was a racially restrictive covenant in the Prairie Village Homeowners Association property records that says, "None of said land may be conveyed to, used, owned, or occupied by negroes as owners or tenants." The covenant applied to all 1,700 homes in the homeowners association, she said.
Past the heavy wooden doors inside the Land Records Department at St. Louis City Hall, Shemia Reese strained to make out words written in 1925 in tight, loopy cursive. Time has relegated the document to microfilm available only on the department's machine. She used her finger to skim past the restrictions barring any "slaughterhouse, junk shop or rag picking establishment" on her street, stopping when she found what she had come to see: a city "Real Estate Exchange Restriction Agreement" that didn't allow homeowners to "sell, convey, lease or rent to a negro or negroes." The covenant applied to several properties on Reese's block and was signed by homeowners who didn't want Blacks moving in.
Nicole Sullivan and her husband decided to move back to Illinois from Tucson, Ariz., and purchased a house in Mundelein, a onetime weekend resort town for Chicagoans about 40 miles northwest of the city.

After closing, they decided to install a dog run and contacted the homeowners association. She was surprised when it told her that the land covenant prohibited erecting a fence. The covenant also prohibited the selling, transferring or leasing of her property to "persons of the African or Negro, Japanese, Chinese, Jewish or Hebrew races, or their descendants." The house could not be occupied by those minority groups unless they were servants.

"It made me feel sick about it," said Sullivan, who is white and the mother of four.

She was so upset that she joined the homeowners association in 2014 in hopes of eliminating the discriminatory language from the deeds that she had to administer.

"We were told by the [homeowners association] lawyers that we couldn't block out those words but send as is," she recalled. "Yes, it's illegal and it's unenforceable, but ... you're still recycling this garbage into the universe."
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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And of course then you render the whole CC&R document suspect because it comes with a built in, "We don't enforce that part." What parts do you enforce? It makes for a legal morass to compound the underlying racial disaster.
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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ZoWie wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:05 pm And of course then you render the whole CC&R document suspect because it comes with a built in, "We don't enforce that part." What parts do you enforce? It makes for a legal morass to compound the underlying racial disaster.
Selectively enforcing something makes if very difficult to legally enforce other parts. That kind of crap needs to come down.
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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Glennfs wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:12 am Reason not to have an HOA so you can enjoy the freedom and privilege of ownership. Meaning you can do what you want when you want within reason on your property.
An HOA is a voluntary, common-interest community of homeowners who agree to share the expenses, through HOA fees, the common infrastructure. Homes are privately owned and maintained by the owners. HOAs are governed by Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions (CC&Rs).

A covenant are promises of things that can and cannot be done. Example: You can't park you vehicle overnight on the HOA maintained roads.

Conditions are the action(s) and HOA can take against violators of the covenant such as warnings or fines. Example: Under the CC&Rs, a homeowner whose front yard isn't maintained could be fined for the violation.

Restrictions limits the activities of a homeowner to ensure the activities are within the general land use rules of the HOA. Example: The HOA could ban having livestock such as chickens, pigs, goats, etc..

In addition to the CC&Rs, there are HOA bylaws which state how the HOA is run from selection of board members, their powers, and how board members and homeowners interact with each other.

There are different types of HOAs with the two most prevalent a large HOA, such as a gated or planned community, and a condo/townhouse HOA which typically has fewer housing units than a gated or planned community. The important thing to remember about any HOA is that belonging to an HOA is a voluntary decision on part of the homeowner. If you want to buy a home that's governed by an HOA you have no choice but to join the HOA and adhere to the CC&Rs and the HOA's bylaws. The CC&Rs and the bylaws protect you from abuses of other homeowners and the board as well as protecting homeowners and the board from you.

Now, are their HOAs that nitpick; yes. Are there HOAs that are very restrictive; yes. But the thing with HOA boards are
democratically elected and you can change the makeup of the board, according to the bylaws, if you're unsatisfied with them. You can also put yourself up as a candidate for the board at the next HOA election.

So, from you statement about not being able "...enjoy the freedom and privilege of ownership" isn't true because if you belong to an HOA you voluntarily agree to live within the CC&Rs and bylaws of the HOA. If you feel you've lost "freedom and privilege of ownership" by being in an HOA then you'd be stupid for join in the first place.
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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ZoWie wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:05 pm And of course then you render the whole CC&R document suspect because it comes with a built in, "We don't enforce that part." What parts do you enforce? It makes for a legal morass to compound the underlying racial disaster.
That problem usually happens in smaller HOAs where homeowners are the board members and have to enforce the CC&Rs or bylaws. In larger HOAs, such as a gated community or a high-rise condominium build, they'll have a professional management company handling the day-day details and the board's responsibility is to planned and budget for the upkeep of the HOA. In smaller HOAs, disputes can usually be solved by talking with the homeowner about violation. In my experience, the homeowner in violation wasn't aware something wasn't allowed. Case in point, one of our units is a rental and they put a diversity matters sign outside under their front window facing the front yard. We have a rule that signs, other than For Sale signs, can't be put in the front yard because that's a common interest area and we don't want a bunch of conflicting signs in the yard. I spoke with the renter and explained it to him and suggested he put the sign in his window because under California law he has the right to put a sign in his window. He thanked me and put the sign in his window.
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ZoWie
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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Our current property has no HOA, but it does have a neighborhood council which reports to the city councilman whose district would otherwise be so big as to be worthless for any sort of representation of anyone except developers with big bucks for lawyers, and yes, grease. These councils were an attempt to get around the ridiculously small number of city council seats without actually expanding the council to a realistic size like you'd have in New York, where even the boro councils are larger and the full city council is enormous. Unfortunately, they lack legal clout.

The property does have underlying CC&Rs because like most it's in an old tract that was developed all at once. Also like most, they are from the 1940s and completely obsolete. They have the usual Klan inspired language about how only white protestants need buy property in the tract, but this is obviously illegal.

Having at one point had a 50' antenna tower behind a house in another neighborhood, I'm quite familiar with the legalities of CC&Rs as opposed to other types of neighborhood rules such as might be set by the directors of a condo complex HOA. BTW the rules for these towers now have Federal restrictions too, and require a lengthy and expensive petition process where practically anyone who'd be in view of it has a say in whether it should be allowed. In general, you don't see them as much in cities any more. They're not worth the bother.

Our previous house had a very strong HOA, one of the first and most powerful of any single-family home neighborhood in LA, which was one reason we bought there because otherwise in LA these tend to fall into legal limbo. Even then, they couldn't stop abuse such as owners renting their property to college fraternities or other groups technically not legal in that zone. There were CC&Rs up the wazoo, lots of them, and they were basically unenforceable.

It's complicated.
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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When homeowners associations were first created, they helped keep Black people out of the neighborhood. They're still doing it today. - Business Insider
• Homeowners associations exploded in popularity in the 1960s as suburb development was booming.
• Some HOAs used racist deeds and covenants to bar Black buyers from purchasing homes.
• Today, HOAs are majority white and Asian, and Black homeowners say they experience targeted discrimination and harassment by their HOAs.
• This article is part of Business Insider's "Inside the racial wealth gap" series.

Homeowners associations were first created in the mid-19th century, but didn't gain popularity until the 1960s. Their popularity was driven by a rapid growth in suburban development and a desire by white Americans to keep certain populations out of their neighborhoods, experts say.

Jonathan Rothwell, author of "A Republic of Equals," told Business Insider, "There is plenty of evidence from historic records and housing policy discussions that anti-Black racism motivated some of the strategies used by homeowner associations, such as deed restrictions and covenants that explicitly discriminated against Black people by compelling other owners to avoid selling to them. HOAs perpetuate racial and economic segregation by blocking fair participation in housing markets, thus denying wealth-generating opportunities and upward mobility for many Black people and lower-income families."

Today, research shows that an estimated 60% of newly built single-family homes and 80% of homes in new subdivisions are part of a homeowners association. Neighborhoods with HOAs have, on average, more white and Asian residents — as well as more wealthy residents — and fewer Black residents than non-HOA areas. Homes in HOA neighborhoods also typically sell for 4% more than similar homes outside of HOAs — a boon for homeowners, but a roadblock for many prospective buyers.
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gounion
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

Post by gounion »

HOAs CERTAINLY raise the worth of your home. It was that and the fact I wouldn't have to have any issues with neighbors was why we bought into one.

I haven't seen any Asian families, but we have quite a few black families here. Of course, this is Tennessee, so there's plenty of racist assholes here.

When I bought in, there was the price - and if you could get a loan, you were in. Now, they're putting the houses up for bid, so whoever pays more gets it, because of the housing shortage.
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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gounion wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:06 pm HOAs CERTAINLY raise the worth of your home. It was that and the fact I wouldn't have to have any issues with neighbors was why we bought into one.

I haven't seen any Asian families, but we have quite a few black families here. Of course, this is Tennessee, so there's plenty of racist assholes here.

When I bought in, there was the price - and if you could get a loan, you were in. Now, they're putting the houses up for bid, so whoever pays more gets it, because of the housing shortage.
HOAs have their pluses and minuses but from my experience, the pluses outweigh the minuses. In a condo/town-home HOA, if there's a problem with the roof you're not on the hook for paying for the full costs of repairs. We've had times when there has been a water leak in the walls between units and the HOA paid for their repairs whereas one unit had a leak in their living room ceiling and they were responsible for the repairs.

I don't know if being in an HOA increases the value of a home or not. The thing I tell people who are looking at buying into an HOA is to take a look at their finances, especially their reserve study to see how much money the HOA needs to replace/maintain the common areas and how much they have actually have in the reserves. It's unusual for HOA to have their reserves 100% funded in that most will have their HOA fees sufficient to meet their annual budget needs and put money in the reserves. This is a gradual way to fund the reserves, which I like, and reduces the needs for yearly HOA fee increases and/or assessments. A friend of mine looked at buying a condo in San Diego and when he read their financials he backed out of the deal because they didn't fund their reserves and did special assessments to fix things. Always look at the financials, first, before anything else.
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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This is referencing the MLK Library in downtown Detroit
__________

rebekah entralgo fernández
@rebekahentralgo

The 4th floor has an exhibit on DC history that has this eerily prescient pamphlet on housing displacement from *1948.*

Image

https://twitter.com/rebekahentralgo/sta ... 9219458053
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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Related to the above post from 1948, this is a 5-part news series WJZ-TV news did on how blockbusting worked in 1970.

The commercials are the best!!

Blockbusting in Baltimore (1970) - Youtube, 28:56

"The niggers are coming, you know what's going to happen to your neighborhood. Sell out now, and I'll get you a good price for your home."

This happened within the lifetimes of every person on RFL.
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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carmenjonze wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:02 pm Related to the above post from 1948, this is a 5-part news series WJZ-TV news did on how blockbusting worked in 1970.

The commercials are the best!!

Blockbusting in Baltimore (1970) - Youtube, 28:56

"The niggers are coming, you know what's going to happen to your neighborhood. Sell out now, and I'll get you a good price for your home."

This happened within the lifetimes of every person on RFL.
Going to my grandsons football game and will watch this later.

I watched in real time insurers redline areas for racial reasons.
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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Libertas wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:06 pm I watched in real time insurers redline areas for racial reasons.
Yes, in this city realtors will tell whites outright that they won't accompany them to house sales in what few Black neighborhoods there are, here. The same people don't have any problem kicking Black and Latino renters out of Victorians, gutting the living spaces, and hiking up the price by literally multimillions of dollars.

So amoral.
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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HOA rules, City ordinances, not much of a difference.

>
this isn't the country,
In 1958 this was the country. The wrong side of the tracks to boot. (before the freeways, what was a major highway split the city in two. It's more of a boulevard now.) The nearest Village was a mile and a half south. They had a small chain of lakes and paved roads. We had swamps and dirt roads sprayed with a tar oil.

Fast forward 50 years. The last plots were sold off some 15 years ago. Basically, we are now part of the cities.

You could say not much has changed. We're still the wrong side of the tracks. The homes to the south are now more of a small version of the mega mansion problem California has. Our side still attracts those that are struggling. While both sides were completely white in 58, Our side is now about 50/50. The other side, ya, some things never change.

The problem i have, for quite some time now the other side of the tracks has been dictating. Apparently, they think we can afford their life style.

So ya, when the Hernandez's from across the road were given a warning to remove his kids 86 Z28 that was up on blocks in the driveway, i called bs. As i told the City Manger, the kid is an honor student, has a part time job, pays for a nice litle Honda to go to and fro, and is working on his dream car in the driveway. That sounds way better than having him hang out at the mall in his spare time. i like our City Manager. He has common sense. The kid now has the car down on 4 good tires, From my front window, it's starting to look like a sharp car.
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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bradman wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:06 pm HOA rules, City ordinances, not much of a difference.

>

In 1958 this was the country. The wrong side of the tracks to boot. (before the freeways, what was a major highway split the city in two. It's more of a boulevard now.) The nearest Village was a mile and a half south. They had a small chain of lakes and paved roads. We had swamps and dirt roads sprayed with a tar oil.

Fast forward 50 years. The last plots were sold off some 15 years ago. Basically, we are now part of the cities.

You could say not much has changed. We're still the wrong side of the tracks. The homes to the south are now more of a small version of the mega mansion problem California has. Our side still attracts those that are struggling. While both sides were completely white in 58, Our side is now about 50/50. The other side, ya, some things never change.

The problem i have, for quite some time now the other side of the tracks has been dictating. Apparently, they think we can afford their life style.

So ya, when the Hernandez's from across the road were given a warning to remove his kids 86 Z28 that was up on blocks from the driveway, i called bs. As i told the City Manger, the kid is an honor student, has a part time job, pays for a nice litle Honda to go to and fro, and is working on his dream car in the driveway. That sounds way better than having him hang out at the mall in his spare time. i like our City Manager. He has common sense. The kid now has the car down on 4 good tires, From my front window, it's starting to look like a sharp car.
Good for you Bradman.

:)
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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sam lefthand wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:44 pm Good for you Bradman.

:)
He comes over and borrows tools on occasion. More than once we've sat with the hood open, leaning in, bsing about his next move. Kinda like a Norman Rockwell Scene. It makes for good memories. :)
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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bradman wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:08 pm He comes over and borrows tools on occasion. More than once we've sat with the hood open, leaning in, bsing about his next move. Kinda like a Norman Rockwell Scene. It makes for good memories. :)
Would you call the scene I linked to in the opening post of the thread a Norman Rockwell scene?
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

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gounion wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:18 pm Would you call the scene I linked to in the opening post of the thread a Norman Rockwell scene?
There was a minority couple that moved into one of he last decrepit homes some two blocks over. A run down two bedroom shack (that should perhaps have been torn down.)with a single stall detached garage. He patched it up rather nicely. New roof, new windows, nice siding. He worked at a junk yard and would occasionally work on vehicles in front of the garage. Flipping for extra cash i guess you could say. The problem arose when he shelled out for an ancient tow truck. Within a year he had some 20 junk vehicles in his back yard. Ya, there's no way that one would fly. There was no real way to defend that. He was forced to get rid of them but still works on cars in his driveway today. Which, according to city ordinances is against the rules. Nobody has complained since then.
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Re: Reasons to have an HOA!

Post by sam lefthand »

gounion wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:18 pm Would you call the scene I linked to in the opening post of the thread a Norman Rockwell scene?
I would call the scene you linked to in the opening post an Immigrant family from China trying to survive during the Covid depression anyway they can. Times are probably hard for them.

:(

Where I get the idea that they are a Chinese immigrant family is that the packages are being sent to them from a warehouse in China by a relative. Probably returned goods from the US, and that family in the US works at home reprocessing them to salvage after they've been shipped back to the US to make bring whatever they can bring on the US market. That market being Amazon or Ebay, something like that.

A hint of those details were in that report you linked to. The part about the warehouse in China shipping them to them to be reprocessed. I read between the lines to see them as being an immigrant family from china, and about them being hard pressed to make it during the pandemic.

i have neighbors here who lost their way during the pandemic doing something similar. They sell and deliver boxes of local grown produce to people who don't wan to go to the supermarket and catch Covid. They're having a hard time making ends meet.

I have a lot of compassion for that family with the boxes stacked up in their yard and I don't give a whit for what their neighbors think it's doing to the resale value of their homes since by the time they would sell those homes the Covid pandemic will have passed and that family with the boxes in their yard will probably have taken normal jobs and those boxes will no longer be being delivered to their yard.

:)
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