Antonio Brown and mental health

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gounion
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Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by gounion »

We've heard a lot this year about athletes and mental health, brought to the forefront with Simone Biles leaving the Olympics last year.

Now there's Antonio Brown. Brown is an NFL wide receiver, a very good one. But he's had major mental health issues, and accusations of crimes including rape, and he's been with several teams, performing well on the field, but having problems off the field.

Of course, he'd have been gone long before from the league, but damn, he can catch the ball!

I think that if a team is going to sign him, then they need to help him with his mental health. Tom Brady pushed the Bucs to sign him, and classed himself as his friend. But of course, Brady didn't stand up for him when he was seen last Sunday taking off his Jersey and Bucs regalia, throwing them into the stands and leaving the field.

Now, people with jobs often get mad and quit, but understanding bosses will take them back. Not with the Bucs! They tried to say that Brown melted down, and it was all his fault. Well, maybe not:
The Buccaneers have not released Brown. The team has been in discussions with the NFL this week about procedural steps and the designation that the Buccaneers potentially will use for him, according to a person familiar with the deliberations. The NFL Players Association also has been involved, according to another person with knowledge of the discussions. Brown reportedly was not on hand for the Buccaneers’ practice Wednesday.

“First they cut me. Now they cage me,” Brown said. “Instead of asking how I felt or getting to the bottom of it, the team texted my camp promoting a totally false narrative that I randomly acted out without any explanation. They even told us in writing ‘don’t spin this’ any other way. I have stress, I have things I need to work on. But the worst part of this has been the Bucs’ repeated effort to portray this as a random outburst. They are telling people that first I walked off, then I was cut. No. No. No. I was cut first and then I went home. They threw me out like an animal and I refused to wear their brand on my body, so I took my jersey off.”

Brown tossed aside his jersey and shoulder pads on the Buccaneers’ sideline. He threw pieces of equipment into the stands before walking along the sideline to an end zone and then heading off the field through a tunnel. Fellow Buccaneers wide receiver Mike Evans was seen speaking to Brown on the sideline.

Brown was playing his second game for the Buccaneers since serving a three-game suspension imposed by the NFL for misrepresenting his vaccination status. Brown submitted a fake vaccination card but subsequently was legitimately vaccinated, a person familiar with the findings of the NFL’s review of that matter said at the time. He has a long history of off-field incidents spanning his tenures with several teams and signed with the Buccaneers last season as he completed an eight-game suspension by the league for violating the personal conduct policy.

“I make mistakes,” Brown said in Wednesday’s statement, his first public comments on Sunday’s incident. “I’m working on myself and I have positive influences around me. But one thing I don’t do is shy away from playing hard on the field. No one can accuse me of not giving it my all every play.”

Brown said he “relented to pressure directly from my coach to play injured” and received “what I now know was a powerful and sometimes dangerous painkiller that the NFLPA has warned against using.” He said Buccaneers General Manager Jason Licht “acknowledged after the game in text messages to my camp that I did tell coach about my ankle pain on Sunday.”

Trailing the Jets at the time “was frustrating for all of us,” Brown said, but he added that the “trigger” to his reaction “was someone telling me that I’m not allowed to feel pain. I acknowledge my past. But my past does not make me a second class citizen. My past does not forfeit my right to be heard when I am in pain.”

Brown said he underwent an MRI exam Monday in New York that showed bone fragments in his ankle, a ligament “torn from the bone” and cartilage loss. He said he is scheduled to undergo surgery and is “looking forward to next season.” According to Brown, the Buccaneers “ordered” him “under penalty of discipline and with a few hours’ notice” to receive another medical opinion.

“What a joke,” Brown said. “They’re playing like I wasn’t cut, giving me a surprise attack ‘order’ to show up to another doctor with no reasonable notice, and setting this whole thing up as a basis to cut me because what they did on Sunday was not legitimate. Sorry, GM. I already received a confirming opinion from the Top Doc at the hospital you ‘ordered’ me to go to.”
The union needs to be involved. We need to know what REALLY transpired on the field.
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Libertas
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by Libertas »

NFL is barbaric and should be abolished.
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gounion
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by gounion »

Libertas wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:35 pm NFL is barbaric and should be abolished.
I disagree. I do love football, always have.

But it certainly needs reforming. ESPECIALLY at the college level.
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Libertas
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by Libertas »

gounion wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:38 pm I disagree. I do love football, always have.

But it certainly needs reforming. ESPECIALLY at the college level.
Still far too many head injuries, even my grandson got one in high school.

Concussions cant be avoided, maybe some future date they will have a helmet that is perfect, but not now.

Also think NBA should be shut down due to Covid, but it isnt and Sunday Klay Thompson is maybe returning to play with Steph Curry, so I wont miss that.
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gounion
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by gounion »

Libertas wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:39 pm Still far too many head injuries, even my grandson got one in high school.

Concussions cant be avoided, maybe some future date they will have a helmet that is perfect, but not now.

Also think NBA should be shut down due to Covid, but it isnt and Sunday Klay Thompson is maybe returning to play with Steph Curry, so I wont miss that.
As I said, reforms do need to be made. They are working on the head injuries, and the types of hits. On the pro level, they are well paid for the risks they take.

There are injuries in every sport. Baseball can be lethal. Hell, look at ice skating and gymnastics.
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Libertas
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by Libertas »

gounion wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:44 pm As I said, reforms do need to be made. They are working on the head injuries, and the types of hits. On the pro level, they are well paid for the risks they take.

There are injuries in every sport. Baseball can be lethal. Hell, look at ice skating and gymnastics.
I am the minority, for sure.

But I disagree, but we can do that. :D


Just for fun, lets stretch this out. You say they are paid well, what's next, gladiators? Chariot races or sword fights? Just because you could pay them well doesnt make for something that society should support, right?

Going for my walk, I will get back to this in an hour or two.
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gounion
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by gounion »

Libertas wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:48 pm I am the minority, for sure.

But I disagree, but we can do that. :D


Just for fun, lets stretch this out. You say they are paid well, what's next, gladiators? Chariot races or sword fights? Just because you could pay them well doesnt make for something that society should support, right?

Going for my walk, I will get back to this in an hour or two.
I'd rather talk about Antonio Brown and mental health issues in sports. If you want to discuss, start a thread in the sports forum?
JoeMemphis

Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by JoeMemphis »

After his display on the field in front of a national audience, he should expect to be terminated and not rehired by the Bucs. That said the Bucs will at some point release him and he can market himself to other teams. This whole incident has done more damage to his brand than anything else. He will have to deal with that as he sees fit. If I were the Bucs I would leave it at that.
gounion
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:53 pm After his display on the field in front of a national audience, he should expect to be terminated and not rehired by the Bucs. That said the Bucs will at some point release him and he can market himself to other teams. This whole incident has done more damage to his brand than anything else. He will have to deal with that as he sees fit. If I were the Bucs I would leave it at that.
Just like a conservative. Players are meat, and when they are not useful anymore, they are discarded in the trash.

I disagree. They are human beings. According to Brown, his public reaction was to a coach that wanted him to play injured. If what Brown says happened did happen, I think the coach should be fired.

But you don't give a fuck do you?
ap215
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by ap215 »

You're right Gou it's a mental health issue & it's also a family issue it's similar to what Kanye has the union or someone has to step up.
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ProfX
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by ProfX »

Since mental health is the topic, I will only add the NFL needs to be less cavalier about the CTEs players are experiencing.

Look at these lists. It will blow your mind. This is not a "small problem".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... phalopathy

Does it need to be shut down, no. Do they need to do whatever - and I'm not pretending to expertise here? - change safety equipment, change the rules on the nature of contact in a contact sport ... all I know is they need to stop dismissing the problem. It's a reality, and it's why more and more families are reluctant to let their kids play the sport, at least especially at the high-impact college and pro level.

As a recent cartoon jokingly noted, they forbid helmet-to-helmet hits. A very good start! But enough ... ?

BTW, I'm not saying this was Brown's issue. His behavior may not be coming from any type of physical concussion injury.
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marindem01
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by marindem01 »

The N.F.L. has been way to dissmive if not down right refusing to deal CTE. This young man has mental issues and they must be dealt with.

GoU is right about Joe, players are just so much meat. But then again Joe admits he does not make decisions based on facts.
Last edited by marindem01 on Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gounion
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by gounion »

I agree with prof.

And I've seen Joe's management mentality my entire life. I've had coworkers refuse to perform a dangerous job. Management's mentality is "I don't care if it's dangerous, if you don't do it you're fired." Luckily, in most places I worked, we had a union. The one time I worked non-union, when management shut down the exhaust system and we were breathing carbon dust, I quit.

It's just like the Amazon deliverer who was ordered to keep delivering even though a tornado was headed their way. If she didn't, she was told, she'd be fired.

They don't care about the life or health of their workers. It's inhuman.
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by marindem01 »

gounion wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:58 pm I agree with prof.

And I've seen Joe's management mentality my entire life. I've had coworkers refuse to perform a dangerous job. Management's mentality is "I don't care if it's dangerous, if you don't do it you're fired." Luckily, in most places I worked, we had a union. The one time I worked non-union, when management shut down the exhaust system and we were breathing carbon dust, I quit.

It's just like the Amazon deliverer who was ordered to keep delivering even though a tornado was headed their way. If she didn't, she was told, she'd be fired.

They don't care about the life or health of their workers. It's inhuman.
Quite Right.

I remember my Dad being a Union Rep for the A.L.P.A. vs. Southern Airways. Sothern treated their pilots worth crap. Several of their pilots and co-pilots got called up during the Cuban Missile Crisis and Southern still wanted them to fly their regular routes, regardless of active duty status. Assholes.
Love of Country is not Blind Patriotism. It is not devotion to one person or one party. It is knowing fighting for your country is single most important thing you can do. Do not accept the notion violence is the answer.
JoeMemphis

Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by JoeMemphis »

I don’t know anything about exactly what Antonio’s problem is. I will leave that to the purported medical “experts” on this board. Maybe it’s CTE, maybe it’s something else. Whatever it is I hope he finds whatever he’s looking for.

I am no management expert but I can tell you that there are all kinds of ways to quit a job and leave options open for reconsideration. Or you can burn bridges. Antonio choose to burn the bridge.
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ProfX
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

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Antonio Brown's Lawyer Alleges Bucs Ignored Brown's Ankle Injury
https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/01/06/anton ... buccaneers

In a lengthy statement released Wednesday night, the lawyer for former Buccaneers wide receiver Antonio Brown alleged that the team ignored what was a "well-known ankle injury" prior to Brown leaving the field mid-game at MetLife Stadium on Sunday. He also denied that Brown's actions had anything to do with a mental health issue.

"Antonio Brown never faked an injury in his life. It is incredible that people are pushing false rumors that what happened Sunday was the result of mental health issues and not a well known ankle injury," Brown's lawyer, Sean Burstyn, wrote. "Mental health is important, but so is basic dignity."

Burstyn said that the Brown underwent an MRI on Monday, which showed bone and ligament damage that will require surgery. He claims the Bucs are embarking on a "campaign of false concealment" to avoid taking responsibility for ignoring Brown's risk for serious injury by playing him on Sunday.

Burstyn says the Bucs are trying to manipulate the truth and get Brown's camp to attribute his actions to a mental health issue.

[snip][end]

Just to clarify one point -- I was merely echoing Lib's point about CTE being an issue in the NFL, not saying I thought it had anything to do with Brown, whose lawyer is actually saying something different.

Also, I only claim to know and read medical experts, not to be one, which BTW I would say is better than remaining in ignorance.

If he was ordered to play with an ankle injury, I would say that is a poor management/coaching decision. Whether or not he reacted to it properly.

All that finally said, yes, I do think it is time that society opens up to and allows the possibility that athletes like Simone Biles are not different from the rest of us ultimately, and also need to take care of their mental wellbeing.
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gounion
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by gounion »

JoeMemphis wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:51 pm I don’t know anything about exactly what Antonio’s problem is. I will leave that to the purported medical “experts” on this board. Maybe it’s CTE, maybe it’s something else. Whatever it is I hope he finds whatever he’s looking for.

I am no management expert but I can tell you that there are all kinds of ways to quit a job and leave options open for reconsideration. Or you can burn bridges. Antonio choose to burn the bridge.
And, of course, management is always right. They did nothing wrong. It was all Antonio.

After all, the worker class is always wrong, isn't it, Joe? The coach couldn't have done anything wrong, like order someone to play injured, right?

And if he did, he was within his rights, correct?
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Libertas
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by Libertas »

gounion wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:36 pm And, of course, management is always right. They did nothing wrong. It was all Antonio.

After all, the worker class is always wrong, isn't it, Joe? The coach couldn't have done anything wrong, like order someone to play injured, right?

And if he did, he was within his rights, correct?
Hey, Antonio is Black, surely you know that this does have something to do with righty's attitude. Yeah, you knew, I knew you knew :lol:

Hey, I know, ask him if he thinks football and basketball pro players "celebrate" plays too much.
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by JoeMemphis »

ProfX wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:03 pm Antonio Brown's Lawyer Alleges Bucs Ignored Brown's Ankle Injury
https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/01/06/anton ... buccaneers

In a lengthy statement released Wednesday night, the lawyer for former Buccaneers wide receiver Antonio Brown alleged that the team ignored what was a "well-known ankle injury" prior to Brown leaving the field mid-game at MetLife Stadium on Sunday. He also denied that Brown's actions had anything to do with a mental health issue.

"Antonio Brown never faked an injury in his life. It is incredible that people are pushing false rumors that what happened Sunday was the result of mental health issues and not a well known ankle injury," Brown's lawyer, Sean Burstyn, wrote. "Mental health is important, but so is basic dignity."

Burstyn said that the Brown underwent an MRI on Monday, which showed bone and ligament damage that will require surgery. He claims the Bucs are embarking on a "campaign of false concealment" to avoid taking responsibility for ignoring Brown's risk for serious injury by playing him on Sunday.

Burstyn says the Bucs are trying to manipulate the truth and get Brown's camp to attribute his actions to a mental health issue.

[snip][end]

Just to clarify one point -- I was merely echoing Lib's point about CTE being an issue in the NFL, not saying I thought it had anything to do with Brown, whose lawyer is actually saying something different.

Also, I only claim to know and read medical experts, not to be one, which BTW I would say is better than remaining in ignorance.

If he was ordered to play with an ankle injury, I would say that is a poor management/coaching decision. Whether or not he reacted to it properly.

All that finally said, yes, I do think it is time that society opens up to and allows the possibility that athletes like Simone Biles are not different from the rest of us ultimately, and also need to take care of their mental wellbeing.
I was in no way directing my comments to you.
gounion
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by gounion »

Libertas wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:38 pm Hey, Antonio is Black, surely you know that this does have something to do with righty's attitude. Yeah, you knew, I knew you knew :lol:

Hey, I know, ask him if he thinks football and basketball pro players "celebrate" plays too much.
Of course. If a white QB had done this, it would be all different. It would be the coach who would be fired.

The attitude Joe has is age-old. Antonio Brown was too uppity.
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Libertas
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by Libertas »

gounion wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:47 pm Of course. If a white QB had done this, it would be all different. It would be the coach who would be fired.

The attitude Joe has is age-old. Antonio Brown was too uppity.
Ask any con if they think there is too much celebrating by players in the NFL and NBA, then I can tell you why they say that.
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gounion
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by gounion »

According to this article, there is evidence that Brown WAS injured. The coach says there was no injury.

This needs to be investigated. I think there is a decent possibility that Brown could be the one telling the truth here.

Plus, since the coach said on Sunday that Brown was "no longer a Buc", then why did they wait until today to release him?
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:33 pm According to this article, there is evidence that Brown WAS injured. The coach says there was no injury.

This needs to be investigated. I think there is a decent possibility that Brown could be the one telling the truth here.

Plus, since the coach said on Sunday that Brown was "no longer a Buc", then why did they wait until today to release him?
At this time of the year all players are injured. He certainly didn't show any signs of an ankle injury when he jogged off the field.
As for his obvious mental illness Patrick Kennedy wrote an excellent book about his journey and how out country is woefully behind where we should be.
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by bradman »

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/opinion-iv ... 44383.html
Opinion: I've had enough of the unsympathetic people in Antonio Brown-Buccaneers saga
They’re all to blame. Maybe some more than others, but every one of them played a part in this insufferable soap opera that the whole world saw coming 15 months ago.
+
If this were almost any other player, corroboration would not be so important. But this is Brown, who lost whatever credibility he had four teams and a dozen second chances ago.

Sure enough, Arians disputed Brown’s account, saying the receiver had gone through Saturday’s walkthrough, indicating he was good to play, and never expressed concerns about his ankle during the game to Arians, the trainer or the team doctor.

Instead, Arians said Thursday, Brown was pouting at halftime over his lack of targets. Though teammates were able to calm him down, he later refused to go into the game. When Arians asked what was wrong, he said Brown told him, “I ain’t playing” and “I ain’t getting the ball.”


“That’s when I said, 'You’re done. Get the eff out of here,’ ” Arians said. “And that’s the end of it.”

Asked if he’d made a throat-cutting gesture, as Brown claimed, Arians laughed.

“I don’t know. Is that a throat slash?” he said, waving his arm in the universal “Get out of here!” gesture. “That’s all it was.”

Arians also indicated that it was formalities and procedure, not a fear of Brown getting picked up by a team Tampa Bay might see in the playoffs, that kept the Buccaneers from releasing him until Thursday.

While this might seem to make Arians, Brady and the Bucs the sympathetic figures, don’t waste time throwing pity parties for any of them. What, exactly, did they expect? They knew Brown’s toxic history and sold their souls for a Super Bowl ring last season and the hope of another this season all the same.

“I still wish the best for him,” Arians said. “Just, get the help you need.”

Or maybe the Bucs should have made sure Brown did that before they signed him.

Or re-signed him.

Or gave him his 85th chance following his three-game suspension for faking a vaccine card.

Instead, Arians, Brady and the Buccaneers were happy to enable Brown. And now, predictably, it’s blown up in all their faces.

Regardless of what happens next, there will be no winners in this saga. They’re all losers. And I'm tired of all of them.
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gounion
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Re: Antonio Brown and mental health

Post by gounion »

bradman wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:29 am https://www.yahoo.com/sports/opinion-iv ... 44383.html
Opinion: I've had enough of the unsympathetic people in Antonio Brown-Buccaneers saga
+
Thanks, Brad, that's a very good piece.

I think it's already proven the coach is lying. Brown provided a text chain with the coach where Brown says he had rolled over his ankle and was certainly NOT at 100%. So the team KNEW there was an injury involved.

But it's the old boss mentality - anyone who talks back to me should immediately be FIRED!

Unless you're a superstar like Brady (or Aaron Rogers). Then you can do what the F you want.

I had an employee with mental health issues. I worked with HR to ensure I dealt with that employee with those issues in mind, and never had a problem. You just have to make an effort.
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