Thoughts about shootings and gun control

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Glennfs
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by Glennfs »

carmenjonze wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:54 am You can’t even get basic gun terminology right, or provide a link to whatever the hell you’re prattling on about.

Then you scapegoat video games and lecture liberals about “compromise”? :lol:

FOH about the emotionality of others. Go lecture your own people about “compromise”.

The video games are not the reason for the shootings. But the video game could be the reason why the AR is the weapon of choice. Especially among the younger shooters.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by carmenjonze »

JoeMemphis wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:39 am Perhaps if government does a better job of dealing with the crime problem, people will not feel such a “need” to arm themselves for self protection.
^perfect display of white-conservative vigilante mentality.

This level of distorted, paranoid. irrational thought is what has historically led to Birth of A Nation, segregation laws, militias, and Jan. 6ths.
It’s not so much keeping the government “at bay” as it is simply asking them to stay in their own lane.
You sure about that?
Not everyone requires the governments help to determine what they do or do not need.
Well, you’re right.

In fact, the mentality you display here is why this country has needed 200 years of civil rights activism. The government quite deterministically provided conservative whites with everything you’ve got, backed up by a ton of legalized state and vigilante violence and mass murder.
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ProfX
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by ProfX »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:49 am The video games are not the reason for the shootings. But the video game could be the reason why the AR is the weapon of choice. Especially among the younger shooters.
I understand the kids really like the Halo M6 Spartan Laser.

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It's crazy how many are going on rampages with it. Oh, my bad, it doesn't exist. :roll:
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carmenjonze
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:49 am The video games are not the reason for the shootings. But the video game could be the reason why the AR is the weapon of choice. Especially among the younger shooters.
When grasping at straws, blame technology instead of your own violent, gun-worshipping, domineering culture and the paid-off NRA propagandists you guys put in lawmaker spots.

You actually think and say out loud that normal people must “compromise” with these bought-off NRA minions who you guys put there to NEVER compromise on this issue. :?

Sure, okay. :?
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Glennfs
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by Glennfs »

ProfX wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:41 am Some interesting polls. I won't reproduce all these graphs, but they are there at the original site.
https://news.yahoo.com/cbs-news-poll-ma ... 04706.html

Things I will note:

62% favor a nationwide ban on AR-15s. (Though I agree with the point that we shouldn't focus on just one weapon.)
74% of REPUBLICANS favor more universal, comprehensive background checks. IOW, nobody really opposes these, so ... ?
A federal "red flag" law seems to have support by all groups - Rs, Ds, and INDs.
When asked what age one should be to obtain an AR-15, the largest sample group, 45%, said the age should be 25 (not 21).

The thing I find weird about this poll is I certainly support better mental health care support and coverage in this country. I do get puzzled by people who keep talking about this yet slashing funding for it, like Abbott. But all in all, I don't believe there are more mentally ill people in this country than any other (percentage wise) so I don't think this "expand mental health care" stuff really will deal with mass shootings or gun violence more generally. It's also very much a red herring.

To address your thoughts about mental illness. Why there might not be any more than before but, because our population has doubled the number of mentally ill people would have also doubled.

Couple that with the internet giving access to other mentally ill people as well as websites which confirm their paranoia. All would be a factor.
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by Glennfs »

carmenjonze wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:13 am Commie is synonymous with niggers and niggerlovers. Using the actual terms instead of the euphemisms would get him kicked off of RFL. Again.

Doesn’t stop him from crying racism himself, though.

Not satisfied with being society’s biggest perps, conservative whites must now also simultaneously be society’s biggest victims. :problem:
Link please showing that white Republicans are society's biggest perps.
I could be wrong but I am pretty sure actual crime stats disagree with you.
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ProfX
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by ProfX »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:10 am To address your thoughts about mental illness. Why there might not be any more than before but, because our population has doubled the number of mentally ill people would have also doubled.
Doubled since when? As I've pointed out in other threads, if we were going by rates of "natural increase," the U.S. would actually be in negative population growth, since the average # of kids per reproducing het-couple is below the replacement rate. The only thing increasing U.S. population for more than a decade has been immigration, and due to COVID essentially curtailing that, the U.S. had the lowest pop growth EVER in 2021.

I agree it's a possibility some mass shooters may be undiagnosed, but going by the only metric we can look at, which is how many were clinically diagnosed as mentally ill prior to the incident, the rate (I've posted this earlier) looks to be around 8-11% of all mass shooters.

I will repeat, all research to date shows mentally ill people are more likely to be victims of crime than its perpetrators. Are there a small number of people who could be a violent danger to others if untreated or off their medications? Yeah. However, in the background check for firearms ownership, I'd really rather focus on that kind of problem than categorically saying any mental illness should prevent somebody from obtaining a firearm. That was a point j-dogg and I definitely agreed on, back in the day.
Last edited by ProfX on Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:16 am Link please showing that white Republicans are society's biggest perps.
:? the phrase is, "conservative whites," not "white Republicans."

You're so dishonest and self-gaslighting, it's impossible to have even a basic conversation with you about any subject.

But funny, isn't it, how all of a sudden you're demanding links in a thread YOU started, where YOU can't substantiate your own claims from YOUR own OP. :problem:

Second time asking: where is your link for this OP statement?



Link it and prove your idiotic claim.

You can't even get the gun terminology right.
I could be wrong but I am pretty sure actual crime stats disagree with you.
Your crime stats come from the White Citizens Council newsletter from 1961.

Back up your OP claim, or retract it.
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by JoeMemphis »

ProfX wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:48 am I'm not proposing confiscation of existing weapons or magazines. Not feasible. The 1994 assault weapons ban didn't do that (*), either. Buyback programs are fine. We can stop sales of new ones, though.

(*) It didn't do that, there were some problems with how it was written (as I've said), and YET, it still DID reduce mass shootings, so yes, it worked.
It will be interesting to see what comes out of the Senate committee. I am doubtful it will do much to address the problem. But hope springs eternal.
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by Glennfs »

carmenjonze wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:28 am :? the phrase is, "conservative whites," not "white Republicans."

You're so dishonest and self-gaslighting, it's impossible to have even a basic conversation with you about any subject.

But funny, isn't it, how all of a sudden you're demanding links in a thread YOU started, where YOU can't substantiate your own claims from YOUR own OP. :problem:

Second time asking: where is your link for this OP statement?



Link it and prove your idiotic claim.

You can't even get the gun terminology right.



Your crime stats come from the White Citizens Council newsletter from 1961.

Back up your OP claim, or retract it.
I can't find the article I read earlier but here is another link with the same claim.
Now apologize for being as ass.

https://everytownresearch.org/solution/ ... eapon-ban/
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ProfX
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by ProfX »

That's a good article. Please note the stat it says is - in all mass shootings, bearing in mind that indeed they are not used in all mass shootings - they account for 25% of all deaths and 76% of nonfatal injuries.

Note that the article also makes some points I and others have been stating:

Assault weapons make shootings more lethal.
There would be 70% fewer mass shootings deaths if we still had an assault weapons ban.

"FACT: Assault weapons are generally high-powered semiautomatic firearms where each round has up to four times the muzzle velocity of a handgun round. This means that each round from an assault weapon inflicts greater damage to the human body than a round from a typical handgun. Assault weapons are generally designed to fire rounds at a greater rate than other firearms, and when combined with high-capacity magazines, they enable a shooter to fire more rounds over a short period."
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carmenjonze
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:01 pm Now apologize ...
Apologize for what?

Pointing out that you expect people to just believe what you say because you said it?

Maybe they play that game in your community. We don't play that here.
I can't find the article I read earlier but ...
You said it was NPR, which should be easy enough for you to find and simply link, but now you can't find it?

You should have linked it in the first place.

Don't make the claim, if you can't back it up.
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Libertas
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by Libertas »

Just heard Sen Chris Murphy has already said background checks and assault weapons ban are off the table because of the cons.

WHY would you not fORCE them to vote AGAINST these things :evil:

I hope the reporting I heard was incomplete, but it would not surprise me that the cons would want to continue to watch children's faces be blown to bits, but what surprises me is the dems not forcing them to vote against one of the FEW things that actually might help.
Last edited by Libertas on Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by Motor City »

Libertas wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:10 pm Just heard Sen Chris Murphy has already said background checks and assault weapons ban are off the table because of the cons.

WHY would you not fORCE them to vote AGAINST these things :evil:
What table? I dont understand what table is he talking about? it doesnt make sense there is a table?
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by Libertas »

The "table" is owned by the NRA and the GOP.

The dems or most of them need no "table" as they are willing to get rid of most of these fucking guns in the first place, or at least assault weapons.

Too bad the Heller abomination cant be overturned, talk about NO basis in law.
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:10 am To address your thoughts about mental illness. Why there might not be any more than before ...
Before...when...?

Source?
but, because our population has doubled the number of mentally ill people would have also doubled.
:?

Where in the world do you get this reasoning from?
Couple that with the internet giving access to other mentally ill people as well as websites which confirm their paranoia. All would be a factor.
Conservative people should realy dump the "mental illness" frame. You guys willingly elect the craziest people, ever.
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Drak
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by Drak »

The men crying out these mass shootings are not necessarily mentally ill. They are domestic terrorists carrying out RW ideology, they’re doing what they’re told to do.

I see the poster is parroting RW talking points again. As per usual 🤡
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by Glennfs »

Drak wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:58 pm The men crying out these mass shootings are not necessarily mentally ill. They are domestic terrorists carrying out RW ideology, they’re doing what they’re told to do.

I see the poster is parroting RW talking points again. As per usual 🤡
3 of the last 4 haven't been white
4 of the last 4 haven't been conservative or Republican
If you wanted to see who is parroting talking points buy a mirror
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by Glennfs »

carmenjonze wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:34 pm Before...when...?

Source?



:?

Where in the world do you get this reasoning from?



Conservative people should realy dump the "mental illness" frame. You guys willingly elect the craziest people, ever.
I was speaking figuratively not literally but since 1980 our population has grown by 100 million.
So naturally there are more mentally disturbed people today than then.
Also I mentioned that because of the internet they can now find each other and websites which confirm their paranoia.

Here is an idea why don't you try contributing to the conversation as opposed to playing this I am going to discredit you game.
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

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The Facts on Mental Illness and Mass Shootings
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/10/the-f ... shootings/

But experts say that kind of logic is flawed. “No one who commits a violent act is mentally well,” said McGinty. But that doesn’t mean that the person meets the criteria for a mental illness or that treatment would have eliminated that person’s violent act. “We have to draw a distinction between mental illness — diagnosable and treatable mental illness — and mental wellness,” she said.

In McGinty’s view, this doesn’t rule out the need for potential interventions such as anger management classes for disturbed individuals without mental illnesses, but she considers that outside the purview of the medical mental health system. “Improving the mental health system is a really important goal,” she said, but “it’s not going to make a significant dent in mass shootings or interpersonal violence writ large.”

When it comes to policies to prevent gun violence, many experts recommend focusing on concerning behavior rather than a diagnosis per se. Such strategies are likely to be more effective than those that exclusively target people with mental illnesses, and they also avoid stigmatizing large numbers of people. By itself, having a mental health disorder is a poor predictor of violence, and even trained psychiatrists barely do better than a coin toss at predicting who among those with such illnesses will become violent.

According to data from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, in 2018, 47.6 million, or 19.1%, of U.S. adults had some kind of mental illness over the past year. Even the smaller portion of those who qualify as having a serious mental illness — often schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and major depressive disorder — is still large, applying to 11.4 million people, or 4.6% of the population.

“The very strongest research evidence shows the best predictor of a person being violent in the future is prior violent behavior,” McGinty said. One evidence-based policy, she says, is an extreme risk protection order, or a so-called “red flag” law, which allows a judge to temporarily remove a person’s firearms if he or she exhibits dangerous behavior.

Appelbaum also backed policies that limit access to guns. “People ultimately pull the trigger, and people are complicated composites of a large number of cognitions, emotions, and motivations,” he said. “But it’s important to remember that if there’s no trigger to pull, it’s much less likely that large numbers of people will die.”

[snip][end]

If I were looking for something that's a strong predictor, you'll find with many of these guys, they often have prior incidents of domestic violence, and other violent behavior. This is what really needs to be looked for, as opposed to (just generically) "mental illness".

The problem with the background check system is if those things don't necessarily lead to a arrest or conviction, they don't always show up in the background check. But it increasingly looks like this is what should be paid attention to. Not just clinical diagnoses or felony records.
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Drak
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

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Glennfs wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:09 pm 3 of the last 4 haven't been white
4 of the last 4 haven't been conservative or Republican
If you wanted to see who is parroting talking points buy a mirror

Four of the last what four? There are mass shootings happening all the time. Not all conservative domestic terrorists are white, either. Even though most are.

Sorry but no, most of the mass shootings are domestic terrorists radicalized by the RW. And it’s the RW that refuses to do anything about gun laws.These are the same people that form militias and plan to kidnap and execute government officials. They are the same types of people who stormed the Capital and attempted to overthrow the government. They are the same types that planted bombs and constantly call in death threats. And it’s by far a larger scale than you see from other political groups. And they’re radicalized to do these things by the leaders you vote for.


Facts suck for die hard republican fanboys like you. All you do is come with the latest RW parrot points. Which is what you’re doing in here by talking about mental health.
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by Drak »

carmenjonze wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:37 pm Apologize for what?

Pointing out that you expect people to just believe what you say because you said it?

Maybe they play that game in your community. We don't play that here.



You said it was NPR, which should be easy enough for you to find and simply link, but now you can't find it?

You should have linked it in the first place.

Don't make the claim, if you can't back it up.
Exactly. No one owes him jack. Who does this poster think he is? He spends 98 percent of the time here trolling, lying and refusing to back up the things he claims with links, but then demands links from everyone else. Now he’s demanding apologies. He seems to think this liberal message board is his own personal playground. I mean, last week he posted about personal DMs in the politics and current events thread instead of the appropriate forum like everyone is supposed to give a shit.
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by Glennfs »

carmenjonze wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:37 pm Apologize for what?

Pointing out that you expect people to just believe what you say because you said it?

Maybe they play that game in your community. We don't play that here.



You said it was NPR, which should be easy enough for you to find and simply link, but now you can't find it?

You should have linked it in the first place.

Don't make the claim, if you can't back it up.

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/27/11014907 ... milarities

Here you go the article where I saw the "idiotic claim" it is around paragraph 20ish. So are you going to admit you were wrong?
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by bradman »

The second amendment consists of three sentences, one paragraph.

How can you separate one sentence when it's in one paragraph? Aren't they all connected when in a paragraph?

Well regulated..........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eya_k4P-iEo

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Drak
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Re: Thoughts about shootings and gun control

Post by Drak »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:18 pm https://www.npr.org/2022/05/27/11014907 ... milarities

Here you go the article where I saw the "idiotic claim" it is around paragraph 20ish. So are you going to admit you were wrong?
You’re proven wrong ALL the time and never admit it. Instead you abandon threads. Who do you think you are?
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