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 Post subject: Re: WTF TIME IS IT???
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:08 pm 
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It's on delayed here, though I suppose if you pay you can get it live streamed.

When I went to Seattle around the summer solstice, it got dark at 11 PM. I think Paris is this way too. It was around 10 PM when I was there in May. Paris, in fact all of France, should really be on the same time as London, but then they'd be too much like the Brits, and they don't like that.

Our wise founding fathers declared independence on (or about) July 4. Now we honor the occasion with fireworks. A quick look at the ephemeris tables for most CONUS locations will show that July 4 is pretty much the latest sunset of the year.* Oops.

The point to all this is that, perhaps, some months it's possible to save too much daylight.


* Sunrise and sunset are slightly out of sync with the solstices. Since one goes one way and the other goes the other, the day length is still consistent with what you're told in science class. But the sun gets displaced due to the deviation of Earth's orbit from a perfect circle.

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 Post subject: Re: WTF TIME IS IT???
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:40 am 
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some interesting stuff

Why Arizona doesn't observe daylight-saving time

Quote:
........• Daylight saving was ostensibly started to save energy, but it turned out people enjoyed having an extra hour of daylight after work. But not in Arizona, where sunlight only extends the heat-related misery.

• The Navajo Reservation observes daylight-saving time, the Hopi Reservation does not. The Navajo Reservation surrounds the Hopi Reservation, so if on Monday you drive from Flagstaff to Gallup through Tuba City and Ganado, you'll change time on four occasions.

• Western Indiana used to be even more confusing as some counties and cities observed daylight saving while others did not. The Energy Policy Act of 2005 put an end to that foolishness, leaving Arizona as the only two-timing state, so to speak.

• Be happy that in 1905, the British roundly ignored builder William Willett's proposal to push clocks ahead 20 minutes each Sunday in April and roll them back in similar increments in September.

• The first use of daylight saving dates to July 1908 in Port Arthur (now Thunder Bay), Canada. Despite the commercial possibilities, the city holds no daylight-saving parades nor sells "Birthplace of DST" shot glasses.

• The U.S. first adopted daylight-saving time, called "Fast Time," in 1918 in support of the war effort. It was repealed seven months later.

• On Feb. 9, 1942, Americans set their clocks an hour ahead and kept them there until Sept. 30, 1945. It was officially War Time, with zones reflecting the change (Arizona, for example, was on Mountain War Time).

• China may or may not manipulate its currency, but it does mess with the clock. Though spread over five time zones, China recognizes only one, Beijing time. It is supposed to promote unity, but tell that to those who live in the far west when the summer sun sets as late as midnight.

• If the U.S. observed the one-time-zone policy (Washington D.C. time, of course), the summer sun in Arizona would set as late as 10:42 p.m. and weather-related crankiness would hit an all-time high..........

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 Post subject: Re: WTF TIME IS IT???
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:13 am 
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Timekeeping is arbitrary. We only associate real time to clock time because of generations of being indoctrinated that way. If the only time was GMT, world-wide, maybe we'd be free of associating artificial numbers to reality.

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 Post subject: Re: WTF TIME IS IT???
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Clock time was used to synchronize things. It worked better than the alternative, although the alternative was a better way to do local timekeeping. After all, the best way to do timekeeping is still to survey a meridian running through your city/town/farm/ranch/whatever, draw a line a few tens of feet long, and stick a gnomon somewhere on it. When the shadow is shortest, it's noon. Period. If you want to be really really accurate, every day at noon you fire a cannon and drop a red ball so all the adjoining places will know.

Very big in Britain and the empire.

This is obviously a big mess for commerce. It also makes transportation schedules impossible, and that's why the railroads pushed for Standard Time. Commerce and transportation. Yes, nowadays they could all use UTC* but most people would have a big mess with this and miss their trains/ planes/ work schedules/ conference calls anyway. Everything else is the whim of lawmakers, and they keep making DST longer because various industries keep lobbying them. One of the changes was completely the work of the charcoal industry. More light when people get home, more outdoor grilling. Unless it's snowing.

DST in the US did start as a war measure, to save fuel. Year round DST was also tried during one of the 1970s energy crises, but minus the war it was not that popular. For one thing, it doesn't really save energy. No one's ever been able to save daylight that doesn't exist. Whatever energy gets saved in the afternoon gets used in the morning for lighting and heating when it's still dark.

When we change in the spring it's still snowing, because it's not spring yet. Even if the groundhog doesn't see his shadow, it's not spring yet. C'est la vie. When we change in the fall, in November, we can pretend that it's still summer but the Earth's position is the final arbitrator of that. It says otherwise.

Normal countries, as in the rest of the world, change closer to the equinoxes. This causes uncertainty every year. Is it or isn't it summer time in Europe? WTF time is it, anyway?

Silly.


----
*UTC itself is a kludge. It only works for meaningful timekeeping if they cheat and put in the Leap Seconds. Some industries, notably computer networking, want to get rid of the Leap Seconds. That means we'd have to get rid of UTC altogether and invent a whole new time system. The ITU is working on that. It'll come up at the next WRC. Really. That's how fucked up timekeeping is. A radio organization is making decisions that should be made by timekeepers in France.

Couple of years from now they might get rid of UTC, and make it just drift. Then if you sync everything to whatever they call the new Universal Time, Uncoordinated, drift we will. The time shown on cell phones, GPS, etc will get ever farther from what time of day it really is according to the sun. Come back in a few centuries and the Times Square ball will drop in broad daylight.

And then, we will indeed have a demonstration of how potentially silly timekeeping can get when dumb humans muck about with it.

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 Post subject: Re: WTF TIME IS IT???
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:00 am 
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not really happy with what time it is. thinking about moving the clock ahead 1 hour not this sunday but the one after it.


I was wrong about this Im going back to the other time

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