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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:51 pm 
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Papers run daily stories about this. It's another of those L.A. things.

Background:

The latest thing in L.A. is non-docking scooters that go 15 mph. You rent them from a typically youth-trendy Silicon Beach/Santa Monica company with an app that finds the nearest ones. You pay by the minute, then leave them anywhere.

The usual people think they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. The city council thinks they'll become an alternative to driving. Only problem is, right now they're making walking close to impossible in some places, especially near the beach. They've taken over.

Situation:

It's common knowledge that you're supposed to ride them in bike lanes. L.A. doesn't have many bike lanes. The street is too scary. Everybody rides them on the sidewalk. Even your typical skinny trendy gym-going millennial has considerable inertial mass when traveling 15 MPH. Sidewalks are becoming dangerous in a lot of places, and unusable in a few. It's also the law that you need the same helmet you'd use on a bike. No helmets.

Beverly Hills banned the things until they could craft an appropriate city ordinance. There are still plenty of these in Beverly Hills. Santa Monica and L.A. put a cap on them and declared something of a moratorium. Same effect, as in none.

Effect:

For some people, it's a war. Local nooz is having a great time covering all the people who vandalize the things. Since it's mostly the beach with the worst problem, a lot of them wind up in the Pacific Ocean. Dumpsters are also popular, though since the company tracks them with augmented GPS/WAAS/whatever, that only means they take them back out again.

NB: I'm not one of those people.

Interesting part:

Considerable mention is given to digital disruption. I thought I was the only one who had had it with cute little 23-year-old billionaires in Silicon Beach finding new ways to profit from completely trashing the urban social ecology pretty much monthly. Apparently, I'm not. The reasons for damaging the scooters sound pretty much like the ones for shooting at the Google bus in SF. It brings in other issues that weren't caused by the company but which it is identified with.

Future:

Hopefully, more awareness that business ventures can have unforeseen consequences.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:09 pm 
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Are they these

Image

or the sitting kind?

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:56 pm 
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SF got rid of ours, but Oakland still has them. And the kids will g.d. run you over on the sidewalk with them.

Haha the younger ones put chairs on them and ride them around like go-karts. :lol:

So ridiculous.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:17 pm 
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The problem isn't just confined to scooter but dockless bikes as well. In the San Diego area, you can see these bikes and scooters abandoned all over the place. Where I live, in Coronado, the police place a warning notice on them and if they aren't removed within 72 hours they confiscate them. They will then notify the companies to pick up their bikes and scooter by a certain date. If they're not picked up after 90 days the police will destroy them. Each bike confiscated carries a $45 fine and a $1 a day storage fee. Recently, two companies picked up their bikes and scooters paying a total of over $90,000 in fines and fees.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:28 pm 
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whats a non docking scooter....

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:37 pm 
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whats a non docking scooter....

It's similar to a dockless bike in that you scan the code on the scooter. A signal is sent via the internet to the scooter to unlock it and then you ride the electric scooter to where you want. Once you're finished you scan the code to lock the scooter.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:59 pm 
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The ones in Libertas' photo are sleeker than ours, which are inflicted, oops I mean provided, by a startup in Santa Monica called Bird. Ours are black and clunky. They weigh more than you'd think, adding to the inertial mass when a millennial bags you at 15 MPH.

Older systems, notably for bicycles, used docks. You checked one out at a dock, and returned it at a dock. These, you just pick up and leave anywhere. Good: it's way more convenient. Bad: the sidewalks become littered with the idle ones.

They actually might make a valid contribution if they weren't making the sidewalks dangerous. Also it's become something of a generational war. Also there's the ongoing reaction to digital disruption. BTW, I didn't name it that. That's what the 23-year-old billionaires like to call it. They're joyfully trashing urban ecologies dating to right after WWII, and laughing all the way to the bank.

New York is cracking down, for all the good it will do, but they are. One can argue that Lyft and Uber are more convenient than medallion taxis, but they didn't do anything for the unemployed taxi drivers. Also one can argue that AirBnB is convenient, but it made NYC rents go up because rent controlled apartments were turned into short term rentals.

L.A.'s version of a crackdown is having one council meeting about it, passing a resolution saying naughty naughty, and kicking the can forward. Rinse and repeat. They did put some legal teeth in the helmet and no-sidewalk rules, but there's no one to enforce them.


Etc..

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:26 pm 
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I believe the ones in the photo are Lime. We're starting to get those too. They're less ugly than the Birds, which look like miniature SWAT vehicles.

I can see that coastal L.A. is going to be the test case here. The people who gripe the most also tend to be the richest, whitest, and most heavily lawyered. Myself, I'm neutral.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:12 pm 
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I believe the ones in the photo are Lime. We're starting to get those too. They're less ugly than the Birds, which look like miniature SWAT vehicles.

I call those bikes (S)Lime bikes. They're a public eyesore. You can see them littering the sidewalks by Naval Base San Diego and just inside the exit gate (Third Street) at North Island there are about 20 of those bikes.

Quote:
I can see that coastal L.A. is going to be the test case here. The people who gripe the most also tend to be the richest, whitest, and most heavily lawyered. Myself, I'm neutral.

The problem with the bikes and scooters is they're wherever the most people are walking. That's usually downtown areas and along the beaches.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:16 pm 
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Many scooters on Westwood Blvd last night, all ridden by cute skinny millennials or whatever they're calling the next bunch now (metas, or something).

Also all ridden on the sidewalk and sans helmet, even though there is a bike path.

I refuse to engage in a generational war over this. Generational wars are stupid, though I seem to be in a very small minority on this one.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:59 pm 
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We have a skirmish. A woman claims to have had her life threatened for being in a scooter's way on the sidewalk, and police have been notified. I'm sure it's not the first time.

Meanwhile people are tweeting that scooters will turn L.A. into the city of the future. Tell that to the homeless and ganstas.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:57 pm 
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We have a skirmish. A woman claims to have had her life threatened for being in a scooter's way on the sidewalk, and police have been notified. I'm sure it's not the first time.

Meanwhile people are tweeting that scooters will turn L.A. into the city of the future. Tell that to the homeless and ganstas.

I did my usual Sunday morning bike ride around San Diego Bay and as I was passing the dock to the ferry to Coronado there was a guy riding an electric scooter with his 5-6 year old son. Neither of them wore a helmet and they were weaving around the sidewalk without regard to the pedestrians, bicyclists, or joggers. Since this area is a tourist area I figure he was a tourist. It seems when people on vacation they loose all sense of responsibility and awareness of their surroundings. Most likely they're self-centered jerks at home as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Here, they're self-centered jerks all the time. Everybody thinks their use of the city is the only valid one, and the rest of the people are mental or physical Old Farts for not knowing that.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:23 am 
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I've never seen one. They wouldn't work here except in a flat parking lot. A flat parking lot around here is one in which the cars don't overhang each other, it doesn't mean it's flat flat.

Most of the streets and all of the highways and county roads around here would burn them out.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:56 pm 
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They seem to make it up our hill OK. Like you say, though, that hill is a parking lot where you live.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:52 pm 
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The war is over. Nooz trumpets the first "severe" limits on scooters in L.A..

These "severe" limits are 10,000 for Bird and 10,000 for Lyme. And of course these are all in the western part of the city where they don't get boosted in the first 5 minutes after deployment.

20,000 scooters in an area that's maybe 8 by 12 miles. Oh my god, says Z sarcastically. How will those poor people ever make money?

One more thing, though. The companies had to start redlining them. If the GPS sees they're in an area that has banned them, the thing shuts off and the millennial comes to a grinding halt.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:20 pm 
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The war is over. Nooz trumpets the first "severe" limits on scooters in L.A..

These "severe" limits are 10,000 for Bird and 10,000 for Lyme. And of course these are all in the western part of the city where they don't get boosted in the first 5 minutes after deployment.

20,000 scooters in an area that's maybe 8 by 12 miles. Oh my god, says Z sarcastically. How will those poor people ever make money?

One more thing, though. The companies had to start redlining them. If the GPS sees they're in an area that has banned them, the thing shuts off and the millennial comes to a grinding halt.

Round-up the scooters, melt them, and recycle them. We have enough drivers, motorcyclists, and bicycle riders who barely know the rules of the road without have to add a bunch of Yahoos riding scooters on the sidewalks.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:12 pm 
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Here the demographic is more like earnest millennials who think their generation is going to put an end to the motor car forever. Therefore, it's your duty to defer to them in all cases, and let them take over the city.

Presumably we'll adapt, then another digital disruption will occur. Like making anyone who wants health insurance wear monitoring equipment like people out on bail do now.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Here the demographic is more like earnest millennials who think their generation is going to put an end to the motor car forever. Therefore, it's your duty to defer to them in all cases, and let them take over the city.

Presumably we'll adapt, then another digital disruption will occur. Like making anyone who wants health insurance wear monitoring equipment like people out on bail do now.


Meanwhile, they motor down the sidewalk at 15MPH without helmets.

:problem:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:37 pm 
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Meanwhile, they motor down the sidewalk at 15MPH without helmets.

:problem:


Do you have a helmet for when you walk where they're riding?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Do you have a helmet for when you walk where they're riding?


Well, I should, ha. Personally, I only have to worry about getting run over by these kids when I'm in Oakland. Downtown Oakland at that. I used to date somebody in East Oakland, though that was years ago. Not sure how many scooter-users are in those parts, but I am guessing probably not that many.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:59 pm 
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Well, I should, ha. Personally, I only have to worry about getting run over by these kids when I'm in Oakland. Downtown Oakland at that. I used to date somebody in East Oakland, though that was years ago. Not sure how many scooter-users are in those parts, but I am guessing probably not that many.


The City of San Francisco bought a bunch of those side by side two wheel electric things that balance unless the person is a klutz. I was hoofing it on sidewalks and driving around there a lot during work. I guess the city advertised for klutz's to come ride them around, they had helmets, we afoot needed helmets and pads.

I felt pretty safe in my work van. One of them put a dent in it though. Another dent in it got on the Bay Bridge when a motorcycle splitting lanes found there wasn't enough room. That van attracted two wheel things.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:12 pm 
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The City of San Francisco bought a bunch of those side by side two wheel electric things that balance unless the person is a klutz. I was hoofing it on sidewalks and driving around there a lot during work. I guess the city advertised for klutz's to come ride them around, they had helmets, we afoot needed helmets and pads.

I felt pretty safe in my work van. One of them put a dent in it though. Another dent in it got on the Bay Bridge when a motorcycle splitting lanes found there wasn't enough room. That van attracted two wheel things.


A Segway magnet. Yes I have seen those used by some security types, though I'm not sure they're SF public types.

There's a guy who has become noteworthy over the years for zipping one around the Mission district, complete with big Bose speaker blaring Latin music strapped to his back, and a tiny lapdog - teacup poodle or pug or such, can't remember. Big fella/tiny dog - so SF.

Lol I love this city.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:40 am 
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This is a great illustration of why the Libertarian fantasy of a complete unregulated market is completely unworkable. The market must be regulated with a dash of common sense.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:02 pm 
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This is a great illustration of why the Libertarian fantasy of a complete unregulated market is completely unworkable. The market must be regulated with a dash of common sense.

When lack of common sense or greed comes the point where it endangers society then regulations must be enacted and enforced to protect society from the stupid and greedy.

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