Shakespeare being censored in Florida Schools

[Number6]

Well, we DO know that there was a kerfuffle down there over whether grade school kids should see Michaelangelo's David's pee-pee. You can't make this stuff up.

The hysteria over math is like the same syndrome we had when Russia launched a satellite before the US did. That time we got Science Since Sputnik. This time we got STEM. Note that, at least in LA schools, STEM is being replaced by STEAM. Stands for Science, Technology, Engineering, **ARTS"", and Math. In the words of the Sage, You Gotta Have Art.

Math is indeed the language of science, but scientists speak a dialect of math that most people can't and won't master. Try to understand General Relativity. You can't. Not over 1000 people on the planet really do.

There's a happy medium. They started teaching young kids about different bases and modulos, binary notation vs octal vs hex, and all that, when computers first became a Thing. This might have seemed irrelevant at the time, it certainly got a lot of parents confused, but now it's practically one of the three Rs. The kids all work for tech companies.

My father was the Navy liaison officer with Sikorsky aircraft company in Connecticut in the early 60s. We lived about 50 miles from New York City and in 1964 my mother took my sister and me to the New York World's Fair. One of the exhibits we saw was Michelangelo's The David and there was no outrage back then about kids seeing it.

These conservatives who get outraged over seeing something like the "pee-pee" on the The David reminds me of Sam the Eagle on The Muppett Show who was outraged seeing animals on the show not wearing clothes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUVLxJGOdtw

[ZoWie]

Their level of comprehension is about the same as the Muppets' core audience.

It's all about fear, you know.

[bradman]

I saw Les Misérables in London in 1997 and that segment of the play is tame compared to some of the things in TV shows today. Also, remember, that song is based upon the book where Fantine was fired from Jean val Jean's factory because she was a single mother trying to earn money by working there and knitting at home in the evening to earn money to pay the Thénardiers, who own an inn/tavern to take care of her daughter Cosette. After being fired, Fantine does what she has to to earn money by selling her hair and some of her teeth. Although she took to prostitution there was never any description of sexual acts in the book.

Les Misérables is in no way pornographic nor inappropriate for a high school student.

Les Misérables was one of the wife and kids favorites. The youngest was 12 at the time. i'd have no problem introducing it to junior high or late grade elementary students. It's history and the sooner they learn of it the better.

[Number6]

When something like this comes up people are always like, it is so important yadda yadda yadda.
So when was the last time anyone here read a work of Shakespeare or went to a play or watched a performance on TV.
Fact is if it were on PBS tonight or any night not one person here would slide there ass on the couch 5 minutes before showtime and watch the play.
But, when it comes up in a topic about school everyone becomes a highbrow intellectual.

Shakespeare is considered "classical" literature and ,IMO, is a holdover English literature subject from the mid-1950s but today it's probably irrelevant.

[Number6]

Correct so they will be exposed to maybe one work of Shakespeare....maybe.
To hear the leftvtalk it is as if the entire works of Shakespeare was being taught.

When is was in school, back in the 60s, it was only one Shakespeare play taught and that was Romeo and Juliet.

To hear the rightytalk, it is as if Romeo and Juliet is a porno production.

[Number6]

Les Misérables was one of the wife and kids favorites. The youngest was 12 at the time. i'd have no problem introducing it to junior high or late grade elementary students. It's history and the sooner they learn of it the better.

I've read the unabridged version, over 1500 paperback pages, of Les Misérables twice and the second time I got more out of the novel. !500 pages would be too much for even a college student to read so the abbreviated version would probably give the reader a good understanding of the novel. I'd say it's more of a high school level book rather than a junior high or late grade elementary grade mainly because of the complexity of the novel and the number of characters involved.

[ZoWie]

Before the pandemic put most live theater either on hold or in the shitter, we were good for several Shakespeare plays a year. Nobody stages the whole plays, which are from an era when people had a lot more time. They cut to the chase. They also usually update the sets and costumes to make people understand better that the content is timeless.

Of course, this is a town that runs on drama.

Florida has gotten altogether too hung up on what goes on in school. This in my mind is usually a symptom of much deeper misunderstandings and outmoded moral codes. I suppose the governor started our current go-round of this stuff, but he's getting a lot of help.

[bradman]

I've read the unabridged version, over 1500 paperback pages, of Les Misérables twice and the second time I got more out of the novel. !500 pages would be too much for even a college student to read so the abbreviated version would probably give the reader a good understanding of the novel. I'd say it's more of a high school level book rather than a junior high or late grade elementary grade mainly because of the complexity of the novel and the number of characters involved.

i don't think anyone in my family actually read the book. They were exposed to both the play and the movie though.

[Number6]

i don't think anyone in my family actually read the book. They were exposed to both the play and the movie though.

There's a lot of information left out of the plays and movie. For example, you see a young boy named Gavroche in the play and movie but what is his importance? It turns out the Thénardiers not only had two daughters who but in the inn/tavern scene Madam Thénardier had a baby boy who was unseen upstairs in the inn/tavern. When the Thénardiers moved to Paris, Gavroche barely lives in the Gavroche home and spends most of his time in the streets. He "adopts" two very young boys whose mother abandoned them to marry a man who was in a higher social class who didn't want her children.

Although you get the gist of the story from the play and movies, it's reading the book that really makes you understand the conditions of the time and how events affects the characters.

[Glennfs]

Before the pandemic put most live theater either on hold or in the shitter, we were good for several Shakespeare plays a year. Nobody stages the whole plays, which are from an era when people had a lot more time. They cut to the chase. They also usually update the sets and costumes to make people understand better that the content is timeless.

Of course, this is a town that runs on drama.

Florida has gotten altogether too hung up on what goes on in school. This in my mind is usually a symptom of much deeper misunderstandings and outmoded moral codes. I suppose the governor started our current go-round of this stuff, but he's getting a lot of help.

Shakespeare in the park is also pared down

[bradman]

There's a lot of information left out of the plays and movie. For example, you see a young boy named Gavroche in the play and movie but what is his importance? It turns out the Thénardiers not only had two daughters who but in the inn/tavern scene Madam Thénardier had a baby boy who was unseen upstairs in the inn/tavern. When the Thénardiers moved to Paris, Gavroche barely lives in the Gavroche home and spends most of his time in the streets. He "adopts" two very young boys whose mother abandoned them to marry a man who was in a higher social class who didn't want her children.

Although you get the gist of the story from the play and movies, it's reading the book that really makes you understand the conditions of the time and how events affects the characters.

Agreed.

Hopefully at an early age the gist of a cut down version of the book into a movie or play will give them an interest in knowing the rest. i do know my kids can tell you the moral of the story. Even now the grandkids can recite some of the songs.

[Number6]

Agreed.

Hopefully at an early age the gist of a cut down version of the book into a movie or play will give them an interest in knowing the rest. i do know my kids can tell you the moral of the story. Even now the grandkids can recite some of the songs.

I bet one of those songs is Master of the House.

[bradman]

I bet one of those songs is Master of the House.

That one would be up to the master of the house. She wear's the pants in the family.

She's the one that's into culture. Me, if i want culture i eat yogurt.

When it comes to a play list, it's usually along the lines of Do You Hear The People Sing? or I Dreamed A Dream. It is rather fun watching the wife, kids, and grandkids passing around a fake mic and doing their best to give a full throated performance.

[gounion]

Their level of comprehension is about the same as the Muppets' core audience.

It's all about fear, you know.

Depends upon what Muppets, my friend. The core audience of the original Muppet Show from the 70's was stoned teen-agers.

[ZoWie]

I guess you had to be there. We all giggled at PeeWee's Playhouse and old black and white Dr. Who reruns.

[gounion]

I guess you had to be there. We all giggled at PeeWee's Playhouse and old black and white Dr. Who reruns.

Yeah. Pee Weeks Playhouse was really fantastic.

But as for our go-tos back in the day, the Muppet Show and Monty Python on Sunday Night PBS ruled.

I did realize at some point that my dating life would vastly improve if I stopped constantly repeating lines from Holy Grail. At least in front of girls.

I had a decent dating life before, but boy the pool of possibilities did open up upon my realization!

[Bludogdem]

Depends upon what Muppets, my friend. The core audience of the original Muppet Show from the 70's was stoned teen-agers.

And equally as many, if not more, stoned adults. Had many a hump grass party based on the muppets and Monty Python.

[ZoWie]

Monty Python was another mainstay, yes.

[gounion]

And equally as many, if not more, stoned adults. Had many a hump grass party based on the muppets and Monty Python.

…and you’re the one whining about drug abuse.

[Bludogdem]

…and you’re the one whining about drug abuse.

Yeah, that’s not a drug.

[ZoWie]

Monty Python is just as addictive, but a lot better for your body.

[Number6]

Depends upon what Muppets, my friend. The core audience of the original Muppet Show from the 70's was stoned teen-agers.

When I was home on leave from in the 90s, the Muppet Show was being rerun on TV and I turned it on and my father, who was in his 80s, watched it. He had never seen the show and he was cracking up with laughter. So it wasn't just "stoned teen-agers" who liked the show.

[Number6]

Yeah. Pee Weeks Playhouse was really fantastic.

But as for our go-tos back in the day, the Muppet Show and Monty Python on Sunday Night PBS ruled.

I did realize at some point that my dating life would vastly improve if I stopped constantly repeating lines from Holy Grail. At least in front of girls.

I had a decent dating life before, but boy the pool of possibilities did open up upon my realization!

Going back a few years earlier and you had Rowan and Martin's Laugh-in with its short and fast jokes/scripts. THe day after the show we'd be repeating many of the jokes at school we heard the night before.

[gounion]

When I was home on leave from in the 90s, the Muppet Show was being rerun on TV and I turned it on and my father, who was in his 80s, watched it. He had never seen the show and he was cracking up with laughter. So it wasn't just "stoned teen-agers" who liked the show.

Didn't say it was, my friend. I just said the stoners were the "core audience". Not the only audience! It was quite funny.

Kids probably liked it to, though parts of it was way over their heads. It was CERTAINLY an adult-oriented show, especially with the guest stars.

[gounion]

Going back a few years earlier and you had Rowan and Martin's Laugh-in with its short and fast jokes/scripts. THe day after the show we'd be repeating many of the jokes at school we heard the night before.

Yeah, you bet your sweet bippy, it was great!