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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:42 pm 
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BTW, should point out the signal delay depends on distance between Earth and Mars, which varies.

Anyway... I believe InSight does not have cameras designed to transmit full-color, 30 fps video back to Earth .... it's not data NASA wants or is looking for.

Image

The NASA live feed mostly shows what's going on in mission control. I think we know it's touched down, you can just watch their reactions.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:47 pm 
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Laws of physics, Lib. It's honestly true ... video or radio signals transmitted from Mars take 8 minutes to reach Earth.

That means if poor Matt Damon was facing some life threatening situation and asked NASA a question ... he would have to wait 8 minutes to get back the answer. (*)

Assuming they answered right away. :D

(*) Technically ... 16 ... 8 minutes each way. :D

Depending, of course on the relative distance the two planets are when the signals are sent. That can vary from three minutes to 22 minutes, so the round trip will vary from six to 44 minutes. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:23 pm 
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it takes about five hours for the antennae to open up and function.
they should know things soon.

NASA JPL
‏Verified account @NASAJPL
3h3 hours ago
Don't stop believin'! @NASAInSight stuck the #MarsLanding.

Now the solar arrays need to open. Confirmation signal expected in approximately 5.5 hours. http://mars.nasa.gov/insight #MarsLanding
https://twitter.com/hashtag/MarsLanding?src=tren
NASA JPL
‏Now the solar arrays need to open. Confirmation signal expected in approximately 5.5 hours.

http://mars.nasa.gov/insight

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Nothing's interactive on Mars. Depending on its position, RF takes a changing number of minutes to get here, then we have to wait for the acknowledgement to see if it got there, then a reply has to be made, etc etc. Right now the delay is ~8 minutes, and yes, that's a 16-minute turnaround, and that's if you can get the Deep Space Network when 30 other projects are competing for time on it.

It's all autonomous there, while everyone here holds their breath and waits.

They also tend to base the schedules on Martian days, which are fairly close to ours, but not identical. People used to wear two watches. The other ones were modified to run at a different speed. In many cases, this causes work schedules to move slowly through the day, so you never get used to the hours.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:38 pm 
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updates and images. wild cheering...something good happened. i cant tell if cheers
are for the landing or getting comms back here.

InSight went up in May i gather, and just got to mars.

https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/22159/i ... te=insight
InSight's First Image from Mars

November 26, 2018
This is the first image taken by NASA’s InSight lander on the surface of Mars. The instrument context camera (ICC) mounted below the lander deck obtained this image on Nov. 26, 2018, shortly after landing. The transparent lens cover was still in place to protect the lens from any dust kicked up during landing


https://twitter.com/NASAInSight
Pinned Tweet
NASAInSight Verified account @NASAInSight
5h5 hours ago
After a ride like that, everything here is so...peaceful. I think I’m gonna like it here. Can’t wait to feel the Sun on my solar panels, my next major milestone later today. Read all about it: http://go.nasa.gov/2DYCSyi #MarsLanding

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:58 pm 
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apparently we have Two things on mars.

https://mars.nasa.gov/news/8348/opportu ... te=insight
July 26, 2018
Opportunity Hunkers Down During Dust Storm
NASA Mars Exploration Rover Status Report
Updated at 2:25 p.m. PDT on July 26, 2018

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:01 pm 
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video of news briefing post landing.
IDK if there is live landing images.

59min recap.
https://mars.nasa.gov/insight/timeline/ ... ch-online/

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:29 pm 
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i thot mars was red. wheres the red and is all that off white dust???
im confused.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:44 pm 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_surface_color

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:15 pm 
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i thot mars was red. wheres the red and is all that off white dust???
im confused.


I'm going to take a blind stab at that without looking it up.

Mars has almost no magnetic field, without that field the thin wisp of atmosphere the planet does posses diffracts the light descending down through and then bouncing back up off the surface differently thus filtering the "red" band of light from the "white" sun light before it crosses space, enters our atmosphere and then your eye.

If red light is missing the object reflecting that light will appear to be red. What we call a red light bulb has a skin which filters out most of the "red" band of light.


I'm sure it's something which could be looked up, it's way too good a these topic to have been over looked. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:36 am 
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I'm pretty excited about this. I planned on talking about this in my Physics class tomorrow (regardless of what happened). I think we have (world collective) sent about 45 probes to Mars, only of which about 25 have survived. It's a tough challenge and this is a big win!

As an aside, one of the things I always talk about at the beginning of any semester is the 1999, $125,000,000 Mars Climate Orbiter which entered Mars’ atmosphere 100 km (62 miles) lower than planned and was destroyed by heat. The reason for this was that the units used between scientists of different countries (UK and US) weren't equivalent, and nobody payed attention to that when planning the mission.

The reason for this is kind of a pet-peeve of mine. I was always taught to measure twice, cut once, but these scientists apparently never heeded that message.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:26 am 
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I'm pretty excited about this. I planned on talking about this in my Physics class tomorrow (regardless of what happened). I think we have (world collective) sent about 45 probes to Mars, only of which about 25 have survived. It's a tough challenge and this is a big win!

As an aside, one of the things I always talk about at the beginning of any semester is the 1999, $125,000,000 Mars Climate Orbiter which entered Mars’ atmosphere 100 km (62 miles) lower than planned and was destroyed by heat. The reason for this was that the units used between scientists of different countries (UK and US) weren't equivalent, and nobody payed attention to that when planning the mission.

The reason for this is kind of a pet-peeve of mine. I was always taught to measure twice, cut once, but these scientists apparently never heeded that message.

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What level Physics class do you teach?

When I was with the CSU Physics instrument shop I was the fellow who set up and took down the demonstration apparatus used in the big lecture hall freshman Physics classes. That was fun. :)

That whole job was fun. Although on the downside that shop was where I somehow lost my masters degree program while I was a student hourly in that clutter and I never could find it again. After that happened I stayed on the staff for a while working full time.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:24 am 
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What level Physics class do you teach?

When I was with the CSU Physics instrument shop I was the fellow who set up and took down the demonstration apparatus used in the big lecture hall freshman Physics classes. That was fun. :)

That whole job was fun. Although on the downside that shop was where I somehow lost my masters degree program while I was a student hourly in that clutter and I never could find it again. After that happened I stayed on the staff for a while working full time.

This course is what I call "baby physics." It's a freshman (college level) physics course for non-science majors. You'd think that would sound easy to teach, but it's actually harder because you have to figure out how to moderate what you want to say. Although, I have had a lot of fun bringing in demonstrations to these kids (and they are all kids to me) that they have never seen before.

To be honest, I usually do chemistry, and I think that's where my talent really is. But maybe it's just because it is what I am comfortable with.

It's a bummer you got sucked into the job mess too soon. I have to warn my students all the time not to do that (and at a community college/high school, they are particularly vulnerable). It's never too late to go back, it just personally feels harder.

Cheers,
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:23 pm 
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https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/insigh ... ys-on-mars


Image

Prof, Plunderer, etc, is this what we will get, no video?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:30 pm 
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This is not a Mars rover. Its mission is to place instrumentation in one spot, then send back the data. That big covered thing in the left foreground is a seismometer. You do not see the small crane that it is attached to. If everything works, the crane will pick up the seismometer and place it on the ground, where it will sit taking data until the hardware fails. The spacecraft will also place a spiked device into the ground. This contains a miniature air hammer which will (hopefully) drive it something like 12 feet down. This will take data at this depth.

We know a lot about the surface of Mars, but next to nothing about the planet's interior. If everything works right, it will fill that gap.

There's been a lot of debate about the color of the Martian sky. I've seen all the way from light cyan to the same reddish color we associate with iron. Two problems: (1) the photos are usually taken through filters designed for spectroscopy, not photography, and (2) the sky color can vary all over the place with sun angles, amount of dust in the air, and other things we're used to on Earth as well. I like the idea that the sky is different colors at different times.

Martian air is very thin, the gravity is somewhat weaker, and there's no magnetic field at all. Cosmic rays come right to the surface. The warmest temperatures would still be a very cold day here.

The best photos I've made of Mars, using b/w separations from NASA with the filter data given, and plugging said data into Photoshop, look very Earthlike. Brownish dirt, lots of rocks, lots of dust, and the sky we've already mentioned. One looked a lot like the Big Tujunga Wash. JPL has been known to test rovers there.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Average temp is minus 80 Fahrenheit I think is what I am seeing.

Still preferable to a place where rump and cons live.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:55 pm 
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Mars would be very cold, you'd need a suit and and air supply to go outside, and everything would have to be shielded for cosmic rays. The gravity is less than we're used to, which changes just about everything we do.

In SF, they're always terraforming Mars, making it somewhat more inhabitable. This apparently is just barely within the realm of possibility, but damned unlikely given the scale of the endeavor.

If too many people decided to live there, it wouldn't take long before it would be just as fucked up as here.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:06 pm 
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This course is what I call "baby physics." It's a freshman (college level) physics course for non-science majors. You'd think that would sound easy to teach, but it's actually harder because you have to figure out how to moderate what you want to say. Although, I have had a lot of fun bringing in demonstrations to these kids (and they are all kids to me) that they have never seen before.

To be honest, I usually do chemistry, and I think that's where my talent really is. But maybe it's just because it is what I am comfortable with.

It's a bummer you got sucked into the job mess too soon. I have to warn my students all the time not to do that (and at a community college/high school, they are particularly vulnerable). It's never too late to go back, it just personally feels harder.

Cheers,
-P


That's a nice insight you made about being sucked in that you made from my metaphor. It's spot on.

For that class how do you address calculus?

I once had a chemistry professor for quantitative analysis who had the most outstanding textbook/lecture notes, it was handwritten. He copied it off at kinkos and charged us each only for the printing costs. In class he insisted that he'd already written the notes, "put away you pens and paper, watch and listen," he said. Some students couldn't help themselves so he would say that fairly often.

In it he handled dealing with acid base calculations with a strict methodology which dealt with those times when the quadratic equation was needed. And when it was needed his methodology dealt with plugging it in.

I've often thought that could work for bootstrapping past the calculus needed for students who have not, nor will, study calculus to go along with the Physics.

I have no good textbook recommendations. I had Chris Zafiratos for freshman Physics at CU, his textbook was not one I would recommend for generating enthusiasm, although it wasn't bad.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:20 pm 
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the movie The Martian displayed the color RED all over mars becuz...it was a movie with a human audience?

this adventure is about digging down 16 feet is what i believe they said.
they want to know more about the dirt on mars and whats beneath the surface.

im still not comprehending why Mars expenditures happen since No One Can Ever Live there.
it seems to happen becuz its there and the closest we can reach in human form sans time travel.
im not at all aware of what anything concerning mars will teach us about how to survive ourselves.
we can barely live here anymore and we sure cant live there.

i get the excitement of the 'technology' and all the excited humans working the projects.
tech is a rat trap however so be careful what you wish, for you will surely get it.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:29 pm 
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At this point, I would say exploring our solar system is still a form of pure science, not applied science.

Who knows what we will have eventually. Cannons firing minerals from the Moon to Earth ... mining the asteroids ... I'm sure corporations will start doing it once they figure out how to make it profitable.

I personally see a lot of value in pure science. I agree with Zowie the possibilities of terraforming Mars make for great sci-fi but are not possible and may not be possible for a long time ... for some, there is the possibility of discovering there may have BEEN life on Mars (even if simple, and now more or less extinct) in the past ... btw, even if there never was, I still think we can learn a lot about our solar system by studying Mars, even if what can be extrapolated to the situation of our own planet is also limited.

For now, it's definitely the case, there's nowhere else in the solar system we can live, and there's no other solar systems we can get to within a human lifespan. If we're going to live anywhere else than on Earth, it will probably require space colonies. BTW, again, the sci-fi is way ahead of anything we can actually do. The big problem is gravity, and we're starting to find that when folks return from the Intl. Space Station after spending a year up there without it, their muscles start turning to jelly, and returning to Earth gravity is painful and difficult for a long time.

P.S the guy who coined the word 'cyborg', Manfred Clines, wrote an article for NASA around 1960 IIRC where he argued human exploration of space pretty much might require turning ourselves into one.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:21 pm 
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Quote:
For now, it's definitely the case, there's nowhere else in the solar system we can live, and there's no other solar systems we can get to within a human lifespan. If we're going to live anywhere else than on Earth, it will probably require space colonies. BTW, again, the sci-fi is way ahead of anything we can actually do. The big problem is gravity, and we're starting to find that when folks return from the Intl. Space Station after spending a year up there without it, their muscles start turning to jelly, and returning to Earth gravity is painful and difficult for a long time.


this money while prolly beneficial for higher education could be spent here teaching humans
how to regenerate This Planet.
it is this one that is fast becoming unable to support human life let alone the nearly nine billion
pieholes existing upon it.

there is no human future when this planet cannot support the pop existing upon it.
yet we keep pouring zillions into space we can no more manage than we can corral.
this earth here is being ignored and then there is no place for another few billion years.

it seems to me, again, the expense of space comes becuz they Know they wont
do a thing to salvage most life on this earth. they are fully aware of that reality.

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They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Mars is Our Friendly Neighborhood Planet. It's close, as these things go, it has things like dirt and rocks and air of a sort, and you can tell from all the alluvial fans and eroded features that at one time it had surface water. It's closer to the goldilocks zone for carbon-based life than other planets where you catch fire in seconds, or freeze and fall into the liquid methane. In fact, the life thing is a huge question. If we ever found that say, bacteria, evolved independently on Mars, the effect on civilization would be profound.

There's money for all this stuff. The only reason we think there isn't is because we've given it all to corporations owned by global billionaires who suck everything out and keep most of it for themselves and their parasitic buddies. Also we insist on giving trillions of dollars to archaic but influential industries that make the problem worse. It's the financial version of entropy.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:38 pm 
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You must be looking at a different NASA budget than I am. I think they'd be happy for a big fraction of zillions.

That said, I'm absolutely for pouring as much research funding into Earth ecological research, climate science, and applications of that research as possible given the problems we're facing. (NASA is a part of that equation, since it puts Earth-monitoring satellites into orbit. They help us track deforestation.)

We agree it needs the highest priority.

EDIT: absolutely agree with Zowie's post above.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:44 pm 
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:rw) :rw) :rw)

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They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:59 pm 
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