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 Post subject: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:52 pm 
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im a liberal. it seems liberal and left and conservative and right have taken on varied meanings, of late.
in the ole days we didnt bother much with these type of distinctions; in college we were
the peaceniks and they the hawks. simple.
it didnt really get more personal than that. 'fuckin hawk' the exception. :mrgreen:

when glen began referring to the liberals who post here as 'lefties' it showed how things had
changed. he didnt make it up, he'd gotten used to reading and hearing it.
the 'left right' terms seem new to the tech age, shortened words almost acronyms??
every day slang takes on new dumb meanings, yet common for todays world of FB gibber.


growing up in liberal country we had certain values we learned. fairness was a biggie.
accuracy and logic, even playing fields, treating others kindly, were all values we learned as boomer kids.
we thrived on these values. fairness, a quality which still proudly exists in many countries,
was key to growing up and becoming a good citizen.
then fairness and values became a horrid 'socialist' tenet in merica.

in the US thru rayguns post Vietnam years, fairness and equality lost meaning. such values were swallowed
in the corp greed takeover of the raygun years.
the need to control the 'bigly' growing population here in merica meant classifying the public, again.

boom. things changed. life changed. suddenly the anti war liberals became "the left".
we'd lived thru the cons last war, Vietnam, so it was time to drag the antiwar liberals
down in the muck, find a smarmy name for the everyday citizens who had opposed the Vietnam
war. call them All "the left" for reasons few of us understood at the time.
we were anti-war people, lib and con.

we were peaceniks. we wanted to protect the environment stop wars raise our kids in a
open free society, all goals which were run over by wallst greedheads raygun hired.
ask his son Ron, he knows.

soon in social events we began to learn a split was happening.
liberals could no longer talk to cons, cons stopped talking to libs. suddenly words like
"left" and "right" became the norm.
im not sure who designed this during the raygun years but once iran-contra took over all our
lives, not much "fairness" existed. HT ollie north.
lies became 'truth' and truth took a back seat to greed. so much for 'fairness' since someone
had to pay for the fucking wars and it wasnt the corps. it was the people.

back to today. this board now has a few members who seem most interested in "the left" vs
liberals. the behavior seen in words is not liberal not kind not fair not altruistic, not the liberal
values with which most of us liberals were raised.

reclassifying people in terms of left or right is dehumanizing.
im sticking with being a liberal involved with earth environment animals and sometimes the people.
McSlain..i apologize for your well thought out post and expression of experience being totally ignored.
we're liberals not aggressors. i get you. peace on.

it seems a few on this board wont be satisfied until they drive away the liberals with insinuations of
unsatisfactory 'leftness' since being a certain type of leftie appears key. if i ever quote a poem again
i will be reminded of what a horrid human the poet was. im sure many of the musicians in the
music thread dont have stellar personalities either, shall we drive a thesis over each of them too.

this corrective behavior sounds like the pilgrims have just landed.
watch out indians...theyve arrived again. history does repeat.

if you cant say something nice dont say it.
harping has its own thread.

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:49 pm 
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So am I.

The terms Left and Right wing go back to 1789.
https://www.history.com/news/election-1 ... -originate

I share all those values.

I don't want to drive anybody away. Least of all liberals.

I think knowing about a poet's biography helps understand their work. Even if they coined certain phrases, it doesn't mean other parts of their work have no value.

BTW ... do you always say only things that are nice? We both know the answer.

Have a good night.

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Malaclypse the Younger


Last edited by ProfessorX on Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:50 pm 
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Well said Rain.

It's so good I won't add any of myself into it. I'll clap instead.

Well said.

:D


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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:47 pm 
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So am I.

The terms Left and Right wing go back to 1789.
https://www.history.com/news/election-1 ... -originate

I share all those values.

I don't want to drive anybody away. Least of all liberals.

I think knowing about a poet's biography helps understand their work. Even if they coined certain phrases, it doesn't mean other parts of their work have no value.

BTW ... do you always say only things that are nice? We both know the answer.

Have a good night.


Weill I have been told, havent I :rw) :rw)

FFS

ps yes, all those things, and still think when someone goes to work for Putin, they are traitors.

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:36 pm 
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My view's a bit more nuanced than yours, as I've said, but my position is, people (I mean public figures) are not above criticism, even if they have fans. Or have died.

Dunno. I think everybody does quite a lot of criticism here. They just don't always agree on who's OK for being criticized. Oh well. The human condition. Excelsior.

P.S. The main reason I usually criticize people is because they're wrong. (That doesn't mean I don't like them or still respect them. Depends on who we're talking about.)

That's it. End of sentence. I leave the "not liberal enough" game to people like Timmeh, who apparently hated liberals for not tarring and feathering Obama, or something, which apparently we should have if we were real liberals, or something. It's not mine.

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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Fucking Obama , accomplishing more than any 10 white presidents combined

pfft

all post ike combined etc

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:40 pm 
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www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com

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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:27 pm 
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www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com

:rw) :rw) :rw)

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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:33 am 
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im a liberal. it seems liberal and left and conservative and right have taken on varied meanings, of late.
in the ole days we didnt bother much with these type of distinctions; in college we were
the peaceniks and they the hawks. simple.
it didnt really get more personal than that. 'fuckin hawk' the exception. :mrgreen:

when glen began referring to the liberals who post here as 'lefties' it showed how things had
changed. he didnt make it up, he'd gotten used to reading and hearing it.
the 'left right' terms seem new to the tech age, shortened words almost acronyms??
every day slang takes on new dumb meanings, yet common for todays world of FB gibber.


growing up in liberal country we had certain values we learned. fairness was a biggie.
accuracy and logic, even playing fields, treating others kindly, were all values we learned as boomer kids.
we thrived on these values. fairness, a quality which still proudly exists in many countries,
was key to growing up and becoming a good citizen.
then fairness and values became a horrid 'socialist' tenet in merica.

in the US thru rayguns post Vietnam years, fairness and equality lost meaning. such values were swallowed
in the corp greed takeover of the raygun years.
the need to control the 'bigly' growing population here in merica meant classifying the public, again.

boom. things changed. life changed. suddenly the anti war liberals became "the left".
we'd lived thru the cons last war, Vietnam, so it was time to drag the antiwar liberals
down in the muck, find a smarmy name for the everyday citizens who had opposed the Vietnam
war. call them All "the left" for reasons few of us understood at the time.
we were anti-war people, lib and con.

we were peaceniks. we wanted to protect the environment stop wars raise our kids in a
open free society, all goals which were run over by wallst greedheads raygun hired.
ask his son Ron, he knows.

soon in social events we began to learn a split was happening.
liberals could no longer talk to cons, cons stopped talking to libs. suddenly words like
"left" and "right" became the norm.
im not sure who designed this during the raygun years but once iran-contra took over all our
lives, not much "fairness" existed. HT ollie north.
lies became 'truth' and truth took a back seat to greed. so much for 'fairness' since someone
had to pay for the fucking wars and it wasnt the corps. it was the people.

back to today. this board now has a few members who seem most interested in "the left" vs
liberals. the behavior seen in words is not liberal not kind not fair not altruistic, not the liberal
values with which most of us liberals were raised.

reclassifying people in terms of left or right is dehumanizing.
im sticking with being a liberal involved with earth environment animals and sometimes the people.
McSlain..i apologize for your well thought out post and expression of experience being totally ignored.
we're liberals not aggressors. i get you. peace on.

it seems a few on this board wont be satisfied until they drive away the liberals with insinuations of
unsatisfactory 'leftness' since being a certain type of leftie appears key. if i ever quote a poem again
i will be reminded of what a horrid human the poet was. im sure many of the musicians in the
music thread dont have stellar personalities either, shall we drive a thesis over each of them too.

this corrective behavior sounds like the pilgrims have just landed.
watch out indians...theyve arrived again. history does repeat.

if you cant say something nice dont say it.
harping has its own thread.


nice post the good stuff is what we want our differences we can work them out if we dont lose sight of each others humanity.

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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:43 am 
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My view's a bit more nuanced than yours, as I've said, but my position is, people (I mean public figures) are not above criticism, even if they have fans. Or have died.

Dunno. I think everybody does quite a lot of criticism here. They just don't always agree on who's OK for being criticized. Oh well. The human condition. Excelsior.

P.S. The main reason I usually criticize people is because they're wrong. (That doesn't mean I don't like them or still respect them. Depends on who we're talking about.)

That's it. End of sentence. I leave the "not liberal enough" game to people like Timmeh, who apparently hated liberals for not tarring and feathering Obama, or something, which apparently we should have if we were real liberals, or something. It's not mine.


Phil Ochs did a song critical of liberals that was pretty good its been redone many times over the years to good and bad effect but I think he had the right idea.

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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:59 am 
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So, in other words, Phil Ochs is being critical of rain in the way she's complaining about, and I'm not. In fact, Ochs is doing exactly what I'm not doing ... judgmentally saying liberals are not radical/leftist enough. :D

The original song is a bit dated, to events and personalities of the 60s. I understand the remakes try and make it sound more contemporary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Me,_I%27m_a_Liberal

"Love Me, I'm a Liberal" is a satirical song by Phil Ochs, a U.S. protest singer. Originally released on his 1966 live album, Phil Ochs in Concert, "Love Me, I'm a Liberal" was soon one of Ochs's most popular concert staples.[1] The song mocks the differences between what liberals say and what they do.[2] (*)

Introducing the song on the live album, Ochs said:

In every American community there are varying shades of political opinion. One of the shadiest of these is the liberals. An outspoken group on many subjects, ten degrees to the left of center in good times, ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally. Here, then, is a lesson in safe logic.[3] (**)

"Love Me, I'm a Liberal" is sung from the perspective of a liberal. In the first verse, the singer laments the assassinations of Medgar Evers and President John F. Kennedy, but says Malcolm X got what he deserved. Each verse ends with the refrain, "So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal."[4] In the song's other verses, the singer says he supports the Civil Rights Movement and "love[s] Puerto Ricans and Negros as long as they don't move next door",[5] but adds that if somebody suggests busing the singer's children to integrate their schools, he "hope[s] the cops take down [their] name".[6] In the final verse, the narrator reveals that he used to be like the listener:[6]

Sure, once I was young and impulsive; I wore every conceivable pin,
Even went to Socialist meetings, learned all the old Union hymns.
Ah, but I've grown older and wiser, and that's why I'm turning you in.
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal.[4] (***)

According to Ochs' biographer Michael Schumacher, "Love Me, I'm a Liberal" would evoke "a strange mixture of laughter, from nervous tittering from those who recognized themselves in Phil's indictment, to open roars of approval from the radical factions in the audience."[7] Eric Alterman describes "Love Me, I'm a Liberal" as "a scorching indictment of liberal cowardice by a bitter adversary, not the good-natured ribbing one might expect from an affectionate ally".[8]

In 2018, Billy Bragg wrote of "Love Me, I'm a Liberal": "As with all such finely honed topical songs, the cultural references have dated somewhat. However, Ochs's description of a liberal as someone whose politics are '10 degrees to the left of centre in good times, 10 degrees to the right of centre if it affects them personally' still resonates today.

[snip][end]

I noticed you posted the Bragg version, I think, in the Levi Sanders thread. Thing is, Levi is not a leftist. His dad is, BTW. That was my point. I mean, I don't get where or when pointing out support of right wing ideas and actions and personalities is not liberal meant you were judging liberals/leftists as not being left enough? Maybe on some other planet. I'm not trying to dehumanize anybody, but I mean, if we don't recognize ideas for what they are, it's not clear thinking.

(*) I admit liberals can be hypocritical. We're not perfect. However, this is where again I think lack of clear thinking gets us nowhere. Timmeh often seemed to hint Obama was as bad as or worse than Trump on civil liberties and foreign policies and criticized liberals for supporting him. I mean, that position is ridiculous. It is. Obama wasn't perfect but if you really think there's no difference between him and Trump you're not thinking clearly.

(**) I don't think this statement is true, not for me. So for example people will say I'm to the right of center for my position on Israel. Except I support the parties in Israel that are leftist, like Labour and Meretz. I don't support Likud. A lot of the things I'm outspoken about don't personally affect me. Sometimes they only affect people I know. Sometimes they only affect people I don't, but I still care about them. I've never lived near the U.S. Mexico border but I care about what's happening there. I don't think I hold views to the right of center on anything.

(***) As I said, the lyrics are dated; but. Malcolm X IMHO underwent a positive transformation in 1964 and the NOI killed him in 1965 for it ... I don't think he got what he deserved. Some amazing things would have happened if he had lived many more years. I am not an opponent of school busing, and I'd be fine with "Negroes" and Puerto Ricans living next door. I have no interest in turning anybody in. McCarthyism sucked. However, it is a bit weird the way some people label other things by the same name, I'm esp. again thinking of Timmeh. Is looking at Trump-Russia connections a form of McCarthyism? You could say so, but that seems silly and stupid to me.

It's interesting what people will call cowardice. I call people who oppose Leftist totalitarianism (or mere authoritarianism) very brave, and I stand with them. Wholeheartedly, without reservation. I am not going to be namby pamby about the current dictatorship in Venezuela. I courageously call it what it is. Some others on the Left may be too cowardly to condemn authoritarianism, just like the Old Left refused to condemn Stalin and the Soviet invasion of Prague in 1968. Yes, history repeats.

My folk song: listen to me, consider my points, think, I'm a thinking person. I'll strum a few bars. Yeah, I'm also a liberal/progressive/social democrat, because I thought about it.

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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:11 am 
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So, in other words, Phil Ochs is being critical of rain in the way she's complaining about, and I'm not. In fact, Ochs is doing exactly what I'm not doing ... judgmentally saying liberals are not radical/leftist enough. :D


Who ever, being a committee of random folks, who wrote that Wikipedia page missed the point of the song, probably because they were going at it as a committee. That write up has a little bit of everything, but not very much of anything to offer to anyone who didn't live through 1965.

They way I would put it that song was talking critically about cadet bone spurs. And about Maggie's family down on their farm. A family who were more than likely southern Democrats back then. Now they'd be Republicans.

It was a time when protest song singing liberals had to search through both party camps at the same time to find all of their parts.

I think that song was expressing what Rain seems to be expressing now, people coming before polarized political ideology.

One issue self interest driven political types tend to forget the people, while they're fighting so hard for the people.


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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Before discussing it further, here's Phil Ochs singing his song:

www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


In another thread I mentioned that the Rastafarians were liberals to love, just so long as they stay put on their 33 rpm disks. I don't want one of them actually in person being in my house.

But if someone slaps down a Rastafarian disk where I'm at I'm bound to ask my queen to get up and dance, if she wasn't already towing me haplessly out onto that dance floor.

We'd be wearing tie dye. 8-)

After a through examination of their whole beings, and finding some parts flawed, I still love their vinyl discs.


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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Uh, I've kinda been making that same point. So I guess we agree, we can find some things wrong with Rasta ideology, and still like Reggae music.

I don't think I've been saying anything different. :mrgreen: Now, if someone else thinks one should ignore that aspect of Rasta-ism ... I wouldn't. ;)

As for people and ideology ... if your ideology hurts the people, it's time to re-examine it. That's why I no longer think Maduro is a champion of his people. :(

I think ideas are good. I think people become wedded to them. They become so wedded to them (I think this is called fundamentalism), they are no longer noticing they are hurting the people. :(

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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Uh, I've kinda been making that same point. So I guess we agree, we can find some things wrong with Rasta ideology, and still like Reggae music.

I don't think I've been saying anything different. :mrgreen: Now, if someone else thinks one should ignore that aspect of Rasta-ism ... I wouldn't. ;)

As for people and ideology ... if your ideology hurts the people, it's time to re-examine it. That's why I no longer think Maduro is a champion of his people. :(

I think ideas are good. I think people become wedded to them. They become so wedded to them (I think this is called fundamentalism), they are no longer noticing they are hurting the people. :(


I'm going to make a point you haven't been making, and it is about the rest of your story. When you're out and about sitting at a cocktail table with friends taking in a good Reggae music show, or are at a sports bar watching a game. Are you the fellow who chooses then, right then, to be making sure everyone at your table has a full balanced analysis of the performer and their off stage positions on a political plane?

:)

Is about then is when they all move away from you on the "group W bench"???

That's what happened to you in Ed's eulogy thread. And because of that adverse reaction I think it possible you regarded that as a failure on our parts to get it, so since then feeling we somehow missed it seems to some of us like you've been picking at this. Maybe you're not doing it intentionally but it seems like no opportunity goes by for us to have another chance to get it.

We got it the first time!

From our side some of us are still kind of miffed at you that you so totally missed that first social que. Que means WHAT! (time and place)

Saying you know you ought not do it, and then still doing it saying there is some exception that makes you do it, in spite of knowing you ought not do it, make it worse. It's worse because it shows us you know you ought not do it right then, but do so anyway with "willful intent."


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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:25 pm 
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I'm going to make a point you haven't been making, and it is about the rest of your story. When you're out and about sitting at a cocktail table with friends taking in a good Reggae music show, or are at a sports bar watching a game. Are you the fellow who chooses then, right then, to be making sure everyone at your table has a full balanced analysis of the performer and their off stage positions on a political plane?


Nah, the music is usually too loud. Nobody can hear me.

I might discuss it after we leave the show, though. Same thing with movies. In fact, I just got done teaching a class about social commentary in films. I like talking about the social messages in films right after I see them, that's when my memory of scenes and dialogue are fresh.

I will admit, though, I only showed films that had social commentary with which I agreed. Elysium was one of those films. It could have been an interesting example to do it for films where my POV was the opposite ... Rambo? American Sniper? Etc, etc. But I didn't.

On your other question, I really don't go to sports bars a lot, but I can tell you when I do everybody at the table is constantly critiquing the athletes on the field, CONSTANTLY. Of course they couldn't possibly do any better and are armchair quarterbacks. "What's wrong with Tannehill? How could he miss that pass! He can't handle the pressure." I feel awkward refraining from it (and I do)! And the guy saying it would probably fold like a cheap lawn chair if one midget was running at him, let alone 3 guys over 250 lbs. Armchair quarterbacking is part of that gladiator stuff you talk about. Everybody could do a better job against the lions. (Or the Lions.) Listen to sports radio. Would anybody call in if they weren't doing it? :D

They know they are better than the athletes on the field, or the coaches, cuz their Fantasy Football roster is kicking ass. :roll: BTW, they also probably couldn't hit the side of a barn with a football, let alone their receiver under pressure. :roll:

Quote:
That's what happened to you in Ed's eulogy thread.


OK. But, Sam, while I did realize he had not been dead long enough to criticize him, IMHO this is no longer true. So at this point all we have against me is score-settling, or a hangover. :D

Quote:
From our side some of us are still kind of miffed at you that you so totally missed that first social que. Que means WHAT! (time and place)


Again, while I agree with you THEN was not the right time and place, I don't think that is any longer true. The viewpoint that dead people can't be criticized, ever, is silly, for a variety of reasons, and would make the writing of history impossible.

BTW ... even at that moment, I treated Ed pretty much the way I did George HW Bush ... pointed out some good things, observed some facts that weren't. Am I saying Ed's the same as HW? No, but please understand the analogy.

It might be bias or that polarization thing that leads you, or other people, to conclude I treated Ed any differently from HW. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Nah, the music is usually too loud. Nobody can hear me.

I might discuss it after we leave the show, though. Same thing with movies. In fact, I just got done teaching a class about social commentary in films. I like talking about the social messages in films right after I see them, that's when my memory of scenes and dialogue are fresh.

I will admit, though, I only showed films that had social commentary with which I agreed. Elysium was one of those films. It could have been an interesting example to do it for films where my POV was the opposite ... Rambo? American Sniper? Etc, etc. But I didn't.

On your other question, I really don't go to sports bars a lot, but I can tell you when I do everybody at the table is constantly critiquing the athletes on the field, CONSTANTLY. Of course they couldn't possibly do any better and are armchair quarterbacks. "What's wrong with Tannehill? How could he miss that pass! He can't handle the pressure." I feel awkward refraining from it (and I do)! And the guy saying it would probably fold like a cheap lawn chair if one midget was running at him, let alone 3 guys over 250 lbs. Armchair quarterbacking is part of that gladiator stuff you talk about. Everybody could do a better job against the lions. (Or the Lions.) Listen to sports radio. Would anybody call in if they weren't doing it? :D

They know they are better than the athletes on the field, or the coaches, cuz their Fantasy Football roster is kicking ass. :roll: BTW, they also probably couldn't hit the side of a barn with a football, let alone their receiver under pressure. :roll:



OK. But, Sam, while I did realize he had not been dead long enough to criticize him, IMHO this is no longer true. So at this point all we have against me is score-settling, or a hangover. :D



Again, while I agree with you THEN was not the right time and place, I don't think that is any longer true. The viewpoint that dead people can't be criticized, ever, is silly, for a variety of reasons, and would make the writing of history impossible.

BTW ... even at that moment, I treated Ed pretty much the way I did George HW Bush ... pointed out some good things, observed some facts that weren't. Am I saying Ed's the same as HW? No, but please understand the analogy.

It might be bias or that polarization thing that leads you, or other people, to conclude I treated Ed any differently from HW. ;)


The lesson in the song is we do love you, you, who say you are a liberal.

What I said which you did not quote and discuss above was, "We got it the first time!" At his eulogy.


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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:43 pm 
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Phil Ochs did a song critical of liberals that was pretty good its been redone many times over the years to good and bad effect but I think he had the right idea.


I want to take this moment to say you made one hell of a good contribution to this thread.

8-)

For you I'm putting on my men in black sunglasses.


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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:52 pm 
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What I said which you did not quote and discuss above was, "We got it the first time!" At his eulogy.


So an offhand comment in a thread that was really more about Russia Today & Ted Malloch generated all this angst?

I wonder. Who's stuck on this and who isn't? :roll:

You keep bringing it up, Sam. I'm done with it. BTW, just one thing to note for rain, I won't mention Ed ever again, but I reserve the right to discuss Russia Today. :D

It's not going away, nor the things it does, so I might mention it again.

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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:15 pm 
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"Love me, I'm a liberal" is about liberals who made compromises over the years, and became fake liberals. Liberals of the time were fond of citing the New Deal and all those other things a bunch of dead people did, while screwing you in the butt. Take Hubert Humphrey. "I will send even more of you overseas to get racked up in a hopeless anti-commie crusade in the middle of nowhere, but love me, I'm a liberal."

He lost the election.

Real liberals did not want to throw Malcolm in jail. But at the time, that made you a radical. Just about everyone with half a brain was left of the Democratic Party faction that had appropriated the "liberal" label. That's why I'm always saying that real liberals are practically extinct. They actually aren't, but they call themselves other things. It's all word salad, though.

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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:21 pm 
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A real liberal understands when nazis are in power, when the WH is occupied by an actual traitor, you put everything else aside momentarily and do whatever you have to do to remove them.

Nothing else matters until you do that. If someone we once liked goes to WORK FOR THE ENEMY , as in RT and putin, then you disavow that person.

Not complicated.

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:23 pm 
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Jeez, Sam, you're creating "sides" now? How very liberal of you.

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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Jeez, Sam, you're creating "sides" now? How very liberal of you.



A real liberal wouldnt take sides unless on one side there were nazis.

And there are actual nazis on one side, these days.

Or if the other side were union busters, racists, etc. Wait....sides? hmm :rw)

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


Last edited by Libertas on Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:26 pm 
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So an offhand comment in a thread that was really more about Russia Today & Ted Malloch generated all this angst?

I wonder. Who's stuck on this and who isn't? :roll:

You keep bringing it up, Sam. I'm done with it. BTW, just one thing to note for rain, I won't mention Ed ever again, but I reserve the right to discuss Russia Today. :D

It's not going away, nor the things it does, so I might mention it again.


That's excellent, not ever mentioning ED again.

:)


I don't think anyone gives a hoot about RT around here. To them I dish out the ultimate, I don't click on their links.

Sometimes I go incognito to Fort Russ, from their hard line propaganda line for which RT is just soft kiddo porn. I look around a bit to see what is new and then leave.

:|

OK,,, the new stuff at Fort Russ today is the "West Blaming Russia for Yellow Shirts in France But Who Benefits from the Demolition of…"

If you want to discuss that which I just looked and rolled my eyes at Russ about, consider making it a new thread.

:)


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 Post subject: Re: I am a liberal.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:31 pm 
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That's excellent, not ever mentioning ED again.


Maybe ED-209, Sam, but I promise, that's it. ;)

Quote:
I don't think anyone gives a hoot about RT around here.


Cept the folks who have posted stories from it. ;)

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