Luis Elizondo and why aliens are absolutely visiting us...

[Libertas]

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/politics/ ... rview-2021

Luis Elizondo was instrumental in changing that.

In late 2017, he met with the freelance journalist Leslie Kean and revealed the existence of a $22 million (£16m) Pentagon programme investigating military reports of UFOs – a programme he had been in charge of since 2010. He had left the job the day before and decided to turn whistle-blower in the name of national security. As he put it in his resignation letter to secretary of defense Jim Mattis: “Bureaucratic challenges and inflexible mindsets continue to plague the department at all levels... The department must take serious the many accounts by the Navy and other services of unusual aerial systems interfering with military weapon platforms and displaying beyond next-generation capabilities... There remains a vital need to ascertain the capability and intent of these phenomena for the benefit of the armed forces and the nation.”

Yeah, aliens are visiting us. I have no doubt.

The guy ran our program and resigned so he could warn us.

in 2014 and 2015 they encountered UAPs “almost daily”

When you review this information you can come to no other conclusion, or I surely cant...

Luis Elizondo: We know it’s not the US because the US has already come out and admitted it’s not us. So now let’s talk about the potential for it to be a foreign adversarial technology. Well, if that were the case, this would be the greatest intelligence failure that this country has ever faced, including that of 9/11. Because some country, for more than 70 years, has managed to be able to conduct operations with a technology that surpasses anything that we’ve ever had or currently have. And they’ve been able to operate in and around our restricted airspace unchallenged.


But the second reason is there’s a time aspect. I have in my possession official US government documentation that describes the exact same vehicle that we now call the Tic Tac [seen by the Nimitz pilots in 2004] being described in the early 1950s and early 1960s and performing in ways that, frankly, can outperform anything we have in our inventory. For some country to have developed hypersonic technology, instantaneous acceleration and basically transmedial travel in the early 1950s is absolutely preposterous.

[Toonces]

I've always said, "The surest sign that there is intelligent life out there is the fact that they've never visited us"

[Number6]

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/politics/ ... rview-2021




Yeah, aliens are visiting us. I have no doubt.

The guy ran our program and resigned so he could warn us.




When you review this information you can come to no other conclusion, or I surely cant...

There's nothing really new in this article that we haven't seen on The Discovery Channel before on their alien show. When I was in high school in the late 60s, I read everything I could get my hands on about UFOs. The inferences as to their reality then is really not different than from today. I still like reading and watching news programs about UFOs but the one thing they all have in common is there is never any hard, material proof. As for videos, photos, and radar images most are of poor quality or they're unable to clearly show what is being seen.

I'd like to believe UFOs are people from another planet visiting us but for me the lack of hard evidence doesn't support this view.

[sam lefthand]

I'm not even remotely persuaded by Luis Elizondo or that article. I'm a staunch non believer. Maybe Luis Elizondo is related to Alex Jones.



The least persuasive aspect of the opening post is that central quote: "in 2014 and 2015 they encountered UAPs “almost daily”" That suggests to me that it's a big lie, not a matter of confusion.

[Number6]

I'm not even remotely persuaded by Luis Elizondo or that article. I'm a staunch non believer. Maybe Luis Elizondo is related to Alex Jones.



The least persuasive aspect of the opening post is that central quote: "in 2014 and 2015 they encountered UAPs “almost daily”" That suggests to me that it's a big lie, not a matter of confusion.

I'll keep an open mind but I still want hard evidence. Just because we don't know what some UFOs are doesn't mean they aliens from outer space.

[sam lefthand]

I'll keep an open mind but I still want hard evidence. Just because we don't know what some UFOs are doesn't mean they aliens from outer space.

A man named Albert Einstein provided enough hard proof to convince me that even if there are others out there, the distances are too vast, and time dilation is not a theory, it's a proven fact.

[ZoWie]

Time dilation has been proven from observation. Most of Special Relativity has, in fact. Ditto General Relativity, as witness gravitational lensing, etc.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the UAPs are encountered a lot more frequently than just the few examples we've been shown by the US military. I also remain 90 per cent convinced that what we're seeing is hypersonic testing by the usual major players, such as the US, Russia, China, and maybe even N. Korea.

Everything that leaks out into the media indicates that hypersonics are the new arms race. All evidence suggests that everyone's had secret programs going for years now.

[JoeMemphis]

I've always said, "The surest sign that there is intelligent life out there is the fact that they've never visited us"

That’s both funny and true.

[Number6]

A man named Albert Einstein provided enough hard proof to convince me that even if there are others out there, the distances are too vast, and time dilation is not a theory, it's a proven fact.

I like the scene from Contact when Ellie (Sparks), as a young girl, asks her father if there are people on other planets he answered "I don't know, Sparks. But I guess I'd say if it is just us... seems like an awful waste of space."

I have no doubt, but no proof, there are intelligent beings somewhere in our galaxy and throughout the universe. Distance, time, and the energy necessary to travel are what's holding us back from discovering if there is life elsewhere. Where we are with technology today beings on other planets could be behind, on par, or ahead of us. Those technology ahead of us could have solved the problem interstellar travel. It could be that Earth, being on the rim of the Milky Way galaxy, is just too far for them to travel to. There are probably more interesting planets and planetary systems in their sector of the galaxy.

[ProfX]

So there is this question called The Fermi Paradox.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

My brother urged me to read this sci-fi trilogy which starts with the Three Body Problem, by Chinese author Liu Cixin. I read it, and I haven't read the sequels, though I perused where the trilogy goes after the first book.

It basically comes down to this, the reason why we may not be "seeing" any obvious evidence of alien civilizations out there, nor picking up much with our SETI program, is that there might be a very good reason for why alien civilizations might actually not want to be found or detected by other civilizations and are effectively hiding in a "dark forest".

Cixin's novel suggests constantly sending messages out into space telling aliens where to find us, might not have been a good idea.

Faster than light travel appears to be impossible but then maybe there are wormholes or ways to fold space ... I suspect we know the laws of physics as we know them, but a civilization billions of years more advanced may know quite a bit more about them.

My personal position: there is a real UFO phenomenon that cannot simply be explained by hoaxes and misperceptions of planes/swamp gas/Venus etc. Even UFO skeptics acknowledge this. Now, what it is. Is it Chinese or Russian? Others besides Elizondo claim what people are seeing, IF they are technology of existing civs, again seems to break what at least we know about the laws of physics.

Does that mean "aliens are visiting us?" Are they from other dimensions? Above my pay grade; dunno. I will only commit to this: and I've thought it for a while; there's something real there, and it is worth investigating. In the end, there probably are a variety of phenomena (like "earthlights") that people call collectively "UFOs."

[Libertas]

So there is this question called The Fermi Paradox.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

My brother urged me to read this sci-fi trilogy which starts with the Three Body Problem, by Chinese author Liu Cixin. I read it, and I haven't read the sequels, though I perused where the trilogy goes after the first book.

It basically comes down to this, the reason why we may not be "seeing" any obvious evidence of alien civilizations out there, nor picking up much with our SETI program, is that there might be a very good reason for why alien civilizations might actually not want to be found or detected by other civilizations and are effectively hiding in a "dark forest".

Cixin's novel suggests constantly sending messages out into space telling aliens where to find us, might not have been a good idea.

Faster than light travel appears to be impossible but then maybe there are wormholes or ways to fold space ... I suspect we know the laws of physics as we know them, but a civilization billions of years more advanced may know quite a bit more about them.

My personal position: there is a real UFO phenomenon that cannot simply be explained by hoaxes and misperceptions of planes/swamp gas/Venus etc. Even UFO skeptics acknowledge this. Now, what it is. Is it Chinese or Russian? Others besides Elizondo claim what people are seeing, IF they are technology of existing civs, again seems to break what at least we know about the laws of physics.

Does that mean "aliens are visiting us?" Are they from other dimensions? Above my pay grade; dunno. I will only commit to this: and I've thought it for a while; there's something real there, and it is worth investigating. In the end, there probably are a variety of phenomena (like "earthlights") that people call collectively "UFOs."

Thanks for this intelligent response.

Yeah, something is happening. Exactly what I think there are some who know and havent told us yet. To just dismiss stuff out of hand is a sign of ignorance and arrogance. As usual you do the opposite, professor!

[Motor City]

Maybe instead of aliens there are just more of us out there somewhere.

[Libertas]

Maybe instead of aliens there are just more of us out there somewhere.

Mirror universes maybe!

[Motor City]

Mirror universes maybe!

Thats interesting thought. could be were extremely rural or in an escape from new york style prison. maybe universe of mirrors so we cant find our way back through what looks like millions of stars and planets and endless space.

[Libertas]

I wanna see the new Matrix movie.

[Bludogdem]

So there is this question called The Fermi Paradox.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

My brother urged me to read this sci-fi trilogy which starts with the Three Body Problem, by Chinese author Liu Cixin. I read it, and I haven't read the sequels, though I perused where the trilogy goes after the first book.

It basically comes down to this, the reason why we may not be "seeing" any obvious evidence of alien civilizations out there, nor picking up much with our SETI program, is that there might be a very good reason for why alien civilizations might actually not want to be found or detected by other civilizations and are effectively hiding in a "dark forest".

Cixin's novel suggests constantly sending messages out into space telling aliens where to find us, might not have been a good idea.

Faster than light travel appears to be impossible but then maybe there are wormholes or ways to fold space ... I suspect we know the laws of physics as we know them, but a civilization billions of years more advanced may know quite a bit more about them.

My personal position: there is a real UFO phenomenon that cannot simply be explained by hoaxes and misperceptions of planes/swamp gas/Venus etc. Even UFO skeptics acknowledge this. Now, what it is. Is it Chinese or Russian? Others besides Elizondo claim what people are seeing, IF they are technology of existing civs, again seems to break what at least we know about the laws of physics.

Does that mean "aliens are visiting us?" Are they from other dimensions? Above my pay grade; dunno. I will only commit to this: and I've thought it for a while; there's something real there, and it is worth investigating. In the end, there probably are a variety of phenomena (like "earthlights") that people call collectively "UFOs."

Was the novel a good read?

[ZoWie]

The experience here on earth is that contact with alien civilizations is generally deadly. If wars over resources and land title don't do the damage, the spreading of novel diseases or even alien culture traits usually does. I can see why depictions in literature and popular media tend to treat First Contact as hostile invasion rather than deus ex machina salvation.

It is plausible that a hypothetical advanced civilization would manage to survive that long because it learned that the best thing to do is avoid the trauma of a first contact. Sort of like the non-interference thing in Star Trek.

[Number6]

Was the novel a good read?

I read the trilogy a couple of years ago and it's worth reading. To be honest, most books I read don't make much of impression on me and are read mostly for entertainment. The Three Body Problem was interesting but it's not one that I'd read again. Two books I've read a couple times are the unabridged version of Les Miserables and the Foundation trilogy of which I just finished the first book and am beginning the second book.

[ProfX]

Was the novel a good read?

Cixin seems to be a very pessimistic writer. He's no Gene Roddenberry, dreaming of an optimistic future of the human race out in space. A lot of his characters are very misanthropic. It's not unusual in dealing with the theme of alien invasion, but the Trisolarans don't have FTL drive, and are going to take 400 years to get here, but they've pretty much told us when they arrive it's game over, they need our world, and they're not going to share it with the human race. Much of the novel deals not with the alien invasion (which will take a while to get here) but how humans react to knowing this is going to happen, even if not in their own lifetimes. It does not bring out the best in a lot of the human race, and many kind of have grown to hate their fellow humans so much (reminds me of a certain Ikean, but I digress) they almost sort of embrace what's coming.

I did not read the two sequels, but as I've said I'm not a hugely spoiler averse person. Anyway, it seems that Cixin will eventually express a pessimism in those novels not just for the human race, but for the fate of intelligent life in the entire universe. It's all doomed.

I think that kind of fiction might not be for everybody.

[ProfX]

The experience here on earth is that contact with alien civilizations is generally deadly. If wars over resources and land title don't do the damage, the spreading of novel diseases or even alien culture traits usually does. I can see why depictions in literature and popular media tend to treat First Contact as hostile invasion rather than deus ex machina salvation.

It is plausible that a hypothetical advanced civilization would manage to survive that long because it learned that the best thing to do is avoid the trauma of a first contact. Sort of like the non-interference thing in Star Trek.

I've seen Cixin mention this in interviews. I do agree science fiction is more often stories of alien invasion (Independence Day, etc.) than stories of alien benevolence (like the Day the Earth Stood Still, or Cocoon, Arrival, etc.)

But anyway, it's an interesting question to think about if technologically more advanced civilizations are out there, and Sagan and other Drake Equation folks seem to think there must be. Whether it can get here from there ... yeah, if we generalize from Earth history, what usually happens when a less technologically advanced culture meets a more technologically advanced one is usually colonization, conquest, and destruction and/or absorption.

Was it a good idea for SETI to send out messages to tell aliens where to find us? To put that on a plaque on the Voyager probe? Some folks in the scientific community are less optimistic about the outcome of that encounter. Maybe they won't just show up looking like dear old dead da to pass on sweet greetings to Dr. Arroway. The James Woods character in that movie is a douche in many ways (what other roles does he play?) but he asks a good question: so they gave us instructions on how to build a gateway ... do we know there aren't armies on the other side preparing to march through?

Cixin seems to think an intelligent civilization might also be intelligent enough to not want to be found, for exactly those kind of reasons. There may be a lot of intelligent life out there in the universe but maybe it ISN'T trying to be found.

The other thing to consider is would they want to make contact? Would they even see it as worthwhile? How much effort have you put into communicating with ants, and consider if another alien civ that viewed us as being like ants, would bother. Or mostly just ignore us.

[ProfX]

On the UFO subject, the one person I recommend reading is Dr. J. Allen Hynek. In case you're wondering, he actually came up with the classification system many people use (as they do in the movies) of "close encounters of the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd (or 4th) kind".

Hynek was an astronomer at Northwestern University. Like many in that community, he assumed what most people are calling UFOs are just misperception of Earth tech (airplanes, balloons, etc.) or astronomical phenomena (like Venus). At one point he came to work for Project Blue Book, the case files where the AF investigated UFO sightings, at least up until the 1969 Condon report, where they stopped. The Air Force assigned him to investigate an infamous case where (against his own judgement) he said what the people actually saw as a UFO was really "swamp gas".

Over time, Hynek came to change his mind, from investigations of people who had real life sightings and encounters. They did a recent "historical" (I have to put this in quotes, it was much like the Vikings series they did, i.e. "based on history") drama series based on the investigations the AF asked Hynek to do for Project Blue Book. Bear in mind it's no documentary, and even Hynek's family didn't like how he was portrayed. But it's based on his case files.

I don't know what UFOs are. I think people are seeing a variety of things. Maybe in some cases just the Goodyear blimp. But unless everyone who's reported a CE-3 encounter (as Hynek calls it) is lying or was hallucinating, there is something intelligent flying these things. And structured physical objects cannot be only geo-lights or swamp gas. Why it appears to be humanoid is something I've often wondered about, since like Arthur C. Clarke I often wonder whether alien life would necessarily look humanoid. (The joke on Star Trek is every alien race is basically just humans with a facial prosthesis.)

What is it? From outer space? Another dimension? From under the sea (a la the Abyss?) As Vallee argues, from the lands of folklore and mythology like the djinni and the faeries? Above my pay grade. I don't know the answers. But I will say this, I don't think the things people are reporting are merely secret Chinese or Russian technology. In 1947, a lot of folks during the Cold War thought the same thing, too, about the 'flying saucers' but that turned out not to be true.

[Libertas]

On the UFO subject, the one person I recommend reading is Dr. J. Allen Hynek. In case you're wondering, he actually came up with the classification system many people use (as they do in the movies) of "close encounters of the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd (or 4th) kind".

Hynek was an astronomer at Northwestern University. Like many in that community, he assumed what most people are calling UFOs are just misperception of Earth tech (airplanes, balloons, etc.) or astronomical phenomena (like Venus). At one point he came to work for Project Blue Book, the case files where the AF investigated UFO sightings, at least up until the 1969 Condon report, where they stopped. The Air Force assigned him to investigate an infamous case where (against his own judgement) he said what the people actually saw as a UFO was really "swamp gas".

Over time, Hynek came to change his mind, from investigations of people who had real life sightings and encounters. They did a recent "historical" (I have to put this in quotes, it was much like the Vikings series they did, i.e. "based on history") drama series based on the investigations the AF asked Hynek to do for Project Blue Book. Bear in mind it's no documentary, and even Hynek's family didn't like how he was portrayed. But it's based on his case files.

I don't know what UFOs are. I think people are seeing a variety of things. Maybe in some cases just the Goodyear blimp. But unless everyone who's reported a CE-3 encounter (as Hynek calls it) is lying or was hallucinating, there is something intelligent flying these things. And structured physical objects cannot be only geo-lights or swamp gas. Why it appears to be humanoid is something I've often wondered about, since like Arthur C. Clarke I often wonder whether alien life would necessarily look humanoid. (The joke on Star Trek is every alien race is basically just humans with a facial prosthesis.)

What is it? From outer space? Another dimension? From under the sea (a la the Abyss?) As Vallee argues, from the lands of folklore and mythology like the djinni and the faeries? Above my pay grade. I don't know the answers. But I will say this, I don't think the things people are reporting are merely secret Chinese or Russian technology. In 1947, a lot of folks during the Cold War thought the same thing, too, about the 'flying saucers' but that turned out not to be true.

Yes, familiar. He more or less went from being the paid govt disinformation chief to a believer, of sorts.

I get a kick out of the "experts" who instantly and with an attitude dismiss all of this, kinda like a bookkeeper or truck driver expressing expertise on viruses

[ProfX]

This is the History Channel series.

Project Blue Book
https://www.history.com/shows/project-blue-book

Aidan Gillen plays Hynek. I think it's all streaming free from Peacock, BTW.

Now, BTW, is it "history"? I would say like the Vikings show they did on History Channel, it's not documentary, it's "dramatization". But episodes are all based on real Hynek case files and investigations.

So, the Air Force says they stopped investigating UFO reports and closed down Project Blue Book after the 1969 Condon Report, which basically concluded UFOs were not worthy of scientific investigation.

You can call the Air Force and tell them you saw a UFO. They tell you to contact MUFON or some other civilian organization, they're out of that business of doing that.

I don't know if I totally believe Elizondo.

That said, I think he's correct about some things. It is bullshit to claim the AF and government stopped investigating UFO reports after 1969. FOIA requests have shown that is totally false. A variety of government agencies, including the CIA, continued to collect them.

It is obvious the government is still interested. As Elizondo says, if you're in the CIA, NSA, or whatever alphabet defense agency, it should keep you up at night that something is in your skies seems able to penetrate your airspace with impunity and humiliate your state of the art fighter jets.

I don't think the government has alien bodies at Area 51 or any of that crap. But the claim that they aren't also in their own ways still trying to figure out what's going on, for these kinds of reasons, seems obvious.

Obama BTW says they showed him some stuff as President which he can't discuss with the public. Classified. No, it was not where they keep the alien bodies in a freezer at Hangar 18 or Area 51. But.

I could talk about what Trump also said on this subject, but it's as incoherent as anywhere else and I doubt anyone's really interested.

Oh and one more thing. I don't know what to make of stories of alien abductions. The most infamous early case was Betty & Barney Hill in 1963, and they were a mixed-race couple. Some call those "CE-4" cases. The best book I've seen on the subject from somebody who should be taken seriously was by John Mack, who was a psychologist at Harvard ... died in 2004. Mack investigated some abduction cases, he was not an Alex Jones nut job, all his other work is serious scholarship. He concluded they should be taken seriously.

What they actually are, what they mean ... well, as I keep saying ... I agree with Mack they are deserving of investigation.

[rainwater]

The experience here on earth is that contact with alien civilizations is generally deadly. If wars over resources and land title don't do the damage, the spreading of novel diseases or even alien culture traits usually does. I can see why depictions in literature and popular media tend to treat First Contact as hostile invasion rather than deus ex machina salvation.

It is plausible that a hypothetical advanced civilization would manage to survive that long because it learned that the best thing to do is avoid the trauma of a first contact. Sort of like the non-interference thing in Star Trek.

if any existing life out there is aware of this...they would stay away from actual 'contact'.
if they can reach Here theyd prolly be aware of covid and how it takes 2legs out.

for me...somehow all these massive mega-structures exist On this planet and few know how.
that has always led me to consider prior life on this dirt ball which did not come with massive ROCKS used to build
massive structures humans could not have done and still cant today. we dont have machines that could move stack and
place 100 tons rocks...on top of one another.

somehow this was done. without the wheel. and no...rolling 100tons on "wood" yah that doesnt work. lol. wood crushes.
somehow massive boulders were moved great distances and ....stacked. todays 2legs didnt do this.
there may have been prior civilizations of star people here who did all this mega building, then, they died out and
left..and then the waters rose again and again and again. disease may have taken them.

time. its long.

[Bludogdem]

Cixin seems to be a very pessimistic writer. He's no Gene Roddenberry, dreaming of an optimistic future of the human race out in space. A lot of his characters are very misanthropic. It's not unusual in dealing with the theme of alien invasion, but the Trisolarans don't have FTL drive, and are going to take 400 years to get here, but they've pretty much told us when they arrive it's game over, they need our world, and they're not going to share it with the human race. Much of the novel deals not with the alien invasion (which will take a while to get here) but how humans react to knowing this is going to happen, even if not in their own lifetimes. It does not bring out the best in a lot of the human race, and many kind of have grown to hate their fellow humans so much (reminds me of a certain Ikean, but I digress) they almost sort of embrace what's coming.

I did not read the two sequels, but as I've said I'm not a hugely spoiler averse person. Anyway, it seems that Cixin will eventually express a pessimism in those novels not just for the human race, but for the fate of intelligent life in the entire universe. It's all doomed.



I think that kind of fiction might not be for everybody.

Thanks. Not big on pessimism.