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 Post subject: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:39 am 
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And say goodbye to your Free Internet service that we all love & knew if you're looking for a different service besides Comcast & others go to Credo see you in the voting polls in 2018 GOP.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:57 pm 
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security just Cleared the room....take All your belongings with you.

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:59 pm 
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Ajit Pai is a massive dick. He fits in well in the Drumpf misadministration. Here is his "PSA" for Daily Caller.

www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


Ajit, I notice one thing you refused to address is not whether you will still be able to do these things on the Internet, but the more important point of what you will pay in order to do them.

Funny that. I think you should have worn a Grinch outfit. Santa is definitely putting you on the Naughty list.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:34 pm 
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Ka-ching! Bundling, here we come.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:37 pm 
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FCC just voted 3-2 to repeal the 2015 Obama-era net neutrality rules. But: the fight is not over.

It now goes to Congress, and the Courts.

AFTER FCC VOTE, NET NEUTRALITY FIGHT MOVES TO COURTS, CONGRESS
https://www.wired.com/story/after-fcc-v ... -congress/

We've got a three branch system of government, and when one crap-ass branch rules poorly ... the other branches get a say.

Contact your congress critter.

Write a justice ... you know, they read their email, too. :D

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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:43 am 
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My daughter came home from college and old me that the students at her university were talking a lot about net neutrality, they're pretty up in arms about it she said. She asked me what I thought about it.

I told her "it probably is a bummer, at least it could be, however I don't know how big a bummer it is." I said "you know how our Internet connection is at home, it hasn't changed." "It's the same now as it was before Obama made those net neutrality rules." "Those rules didn't change it at all." "Now that those rules are being taken away, I doubt it will change our connection to make it worse."

I told her, "in order to have the loss of those net neutrality rules slow our Internet connection down, or make it less reliable, or more costly, they would have to speed it up, make it more reliable, and less costly first." :|

You can all quote me.

Sorry to hear about your Internet connections.



One possible up side, maybe people will stop posting YouTube videos as Opening posts on the forum. :)


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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:12 am 
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For understanding the significance of net neutrality, I really like this video. Is this the end of the Internet? No, but it means a transition to a different kind of Internet which you might not like.

www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


He starts out on the Bystander Effect, but don't worry, he hits the main subject about a minute in.

I also like the John Oliver explanation, but it's already been posted many times. I recommend watching that, too.

The bottom line is, what Ajit Pai says can't happen - has happened - and will, under the repeal of Net Neutrality. You like Hulu or Netflix more than Amazon Prime? Tough, your ISP has a sweet deal with Amazon Prime. Videos from Amazon Prime will play at blazing speed, and with no additional data rates or caps. If you want stuff from Hulu or Netflix, those may play more slowly and rebuffer more, and you'll pay for data usage and face data caps. That's what happens when your ISP no longer has to treat everyone equally and neutrally.

And if you're saying - "well, just choose a different ISP" - ah, pay attention to one of those graphs, most of America doesn't have a choice.

Welcome to the future. :(

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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:17 am 
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The issue is not really the connection between your home and ISP. That won't change.

No, the problem is the connection on the other end, between your ISP, and what you want to reach.

Image

With the loss of Net Neutrality rules, ISPs are getting what they want, which looks like the 2nd blue chart.

P.S. content providers like Netflix, Hulu, Google, etc. tend to favor Net Neutrality - for obvious reasons, just as the Telecoms/ISPs oppose it.

P.S.2 Ajit Pai, as he said, used to be a lawyer for Verizon.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:42 pm 
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Here's the thing.

About 80% of the Internet's development parallels the evolution of radio broadcasting. Really. No shit.

Radio: Several inventors demonstrate various types of wireless communication. The technology is quickly put to use by governments and militaries. Internet: Researchers demonstrate a routed network which can change the routing when points in the middle go down, presumably in a nuclear attack. The technology is quickly put to use by governments and militaries.

Radio: the technology becomes mature enough to support a communication infrastructure, mostly for ships. Internet: the technology becomes mature enough to support a communication infrastructure, mostly for military research contractors.

Radio: visionaries see a potential in broadcasting to the public. The first commercial stations are literally in garages, with home made equipment. The first receivers are home made. Internet: visionaries see potential in the World Wide Web, a slick new user interface and protocol suite. The first commercial sites are in homes. The terminals use an architecture developed by two guys at home.

Radio: Monopolies form. RCA, the Radio Corporation of America, owns the very idea of radio for a time. They use their patents for the superheterodyne circuit to force anyone else making radios to get a license. It's helped out by Congress, when Sarnoff calls in a political favor and siezes Marconi assets. Internet: New corporate giants form. They have vast campuses, usually in California. They're helped out by the FCC, when a majority of hand picked corporate agents return the favor by turning what was formerly a utility into electronic real estate.

Radio: Split into content providers and content distributors, making deals for carriage. Ultimately, a new technology comes along and changes the game. Internet: ????????????????????? Looking similar, though it's too soon to tell. Netflix, Amazon, etc as content providers, and ISPs as content distributors making deals for carriage. What new technology will replace it?

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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Don't expect to see any changes to the internet anytime soon. The changes will be gradual but incremental steps designed to lull us into not noticing the changes. Our acceptance of the changes will be like the analogy of the frog in the boiling pot. By the time the vast internet users notice the changes it will be too late. The only ways to change this is through the courts or to elect a new Congress and new President who will reverse this terrible ruling. Either way, it'll take years to reverse. Meanwhile, we're just the frogs left in the pot getting used to the changes.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Alit Pai's "PSA" plays exactly on this. Of course you won't see changes overnight. Like any kind of deregulation, the worst effects may start to appear years later.

I think the thing people don't understand about paid data prioritization; the roadway/highway analogy is imperfect. Imagine there was a road where the maximum speed of all drivers at once was 250 MPH. (The point is, Internet roads have limited bandwidth).

Now imagine everybody has the same speed limit of 50 MPH. You get 5 cars in 5 lanes all going the same speed.

Now: car #1, let's say is driven by Mr. Micro$haft, well he can now pay $25 extra per month to go 100 MPH. (Again, these numbers are just imaginary to make a point.)

So now, there can only be 3 other cars on the road going 50 MPH - not 4. In all likelihood, now there can be 4 other cars on the road, but they will each get slowed down to 36 MPH.

The problem is, with roads of finite capacity (data bandwidth), if some are paying to go faster than everyone else, everyone else gets slowed down. Bandwidth IS a zero sum game.

Internet switches originally treated incoming data packets the fairest way we'd expect - first come, first serve. But now, Mr. Micro$haft can pay to make sure his data packets all go first at any switch. That means your and my data packets will go last.

To be clear, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with paying money to get more bandwidth between you and your ISP. That's allowed, and how things have always worked. But now your ISP can even promise to speed up your packets "on the other side" (between your ISP and whatever site you're trying to reach) inside the internals of the rest of the network. And the point is, that part of the Net was, under net neutrality, supposed to treat everyone equally and fairly. Not anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:09 pm 
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Alit Pai's "PSA" plays exactly on this. Of course you won't see changes overnight. Like any kind of deregulation, the worst effects may start to appear years later.

I think the thing people don't understand about paid data prioritization; the roadway/highway analogy is imperfect. Imagine there was a road where the maximum speed of all drivers at once was 250 MPH. (The point is, Internet roads have limited bandwidth).

Now imagine everybody has the same speed limit of 50 MPH. You get 5 cars in 5 lanes all going the same speed.

Now: car #1, let's say is driven by Mr. Micro$haft, well he can now pay $25 extra per month to go 100 MPH. (Again, these numbers are just imaginary to make a point.)

So now, there can only be 3 other cars on the road going 50 MPH - not 4. In all likelihood, now there can be 4 other cars on the road, but they will each get slowed down to 36 MPH.

The problem is, with roads of finite capacity (data bandwidth), if some are paying to go faster than everyone else, everyone else gets slowed down. Bandwidth IS a zero sum game.

Internet switches originally treated incoming data packets the fairest way we'd expect - first come, first serve. But now, Mr. Micro$haft can pay to make sure his data packets all go first at any switch. That means your and my data packets will go last.

To be clear, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with paying money to get more bandwidth between you and your ISP. That's allowed, and how things have always worked. But now your ISP can even promise to speed up your packets "on the other side" (between your ISP and whatever site you're trying to reach) inside the internals of the rest of the network. And the point is, that part of the Net was, under net neutrality, supposed to treat everyone equally and fairly. Not anymore.

Your road analogy is a bit confusing, at east for me. Let me try to simplify it.

Imagine the internet as a highway with five lanes each with a speed limit of 55 mph. All cars have the same opportunity to access the highway and travel at the same rate as everyone else. During rush hours, all traffic travels at the same rate but during the non-rush hours your speed can increase because of less traffic. Speed is not controlled by those controlling the access route to the highway. This is net neutrality in that all cars are treated equally.

Now, net neutrality is discontinued but the highway still allows the cars access but at a cost. Lane #1, the lane on the far left, is designated for those willing to pay to go 85 mph. Lane #4, the second on the far lane, is designate for those willing to pay to go 70 mph. The cars that can't/won't pay for lanes #4 or #5 are now squeezed into lanes #3, #2, and #1 causing congestion and slowing. Access to the internet remains but the cars are treated differently based upon what the drivers are willing to pay to use the highway.

Lets look at content. Using the highway analogy, you are driving on a highway and are low on gas. With net neutrality, you see off-ramps with signs for a number of gas stations. You have access to any of these stations. This is net neutrality.

Without net neutrality, when you are low on gas the only gas stations allowed at the entrances/exits are those that pay the operators of the highway for the privilege of directing you to their businesses regardless that there are other stations in the nearby area that could offer identical goods/services. You lose choice under the repeal of net neutrality.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:34 pm 
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I think both your and my analogy, though worded differently, hit the key point -- yes, some can pay to go faster, but it's not just that those who can't afford to can't pay for the turbo boost; in turn, because some are paying to go faster, everybody else (most of us) will not just keep our already medium speeds, but will get slowed down. They can't make extra fast lanes, without forcing everybody else into the slow ones.

I like your extra point, and I agree how this is things will work from now on. Again, using your analogy, let's say you need a gas station. Now, because your ISP loves Exxon-Mobil, you can reach that gas station by going 100 MPH and get there extra fast. Oh wait? You prefer Shell? Well, you're going to need to get there going only 35 MPH. Our deal is with Exxon-Mobil. Oh you'll run out of gas before you reach Shell? Tough. We don't treat all gas stations the same.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:05 pm 
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The road analogy works when you notice that L.A. freeways are starting to get toll lanes. They're expensive, too. Pay through the nose, get to work faster. Everyone else is sharing the remaining "bandwidth."

The road analogy also addresses the selling of American public assets to private companies. The term "freeway" means you don't pay a toll to use it. You pay taxes. Now that we have toll lanes on freeways, those who can afford it can pay toll AND taxes, with a speed improvement. Otherwise, start waking up earlier.

This is a classway.

As is Agit Prop's new Internet. He can make as many insulting videos as he wants, getting all in our face about our being reamed by our own government, again, but it's still the end of the Internet "revolution" for 99% of its users.

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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:27 pm 
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Thinking about the repeal of net neutrality got me wondering. If the ISPs can control the content you access does that mean since they are considered "people" by the Supreme Court can the ISPs can force their religious beliefs on the individual user by blocking what they consider "offensive" to the ISP's belief. For example, if the ISP's belief is homosexuality is offensive could they block LGBT websites? Or if they find porn offensive, or favor one political party over another could they block those websites as well?

It seems to me this could also cause a First Amendment case if it were to happen. What Constitutional rights does the individual user have when it comes to being able to access the website(s) of their choice?

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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:46 pm 
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The weird thing is Ajit and others keep denying this will happen.

But think about it. Would you be shocked if MSN is your ISP and they slow down your access to Micro$haftSucks.Com to so slow it barely loads or you get a 404 -- I wouldn't.

Or if Verizon is your ISP and IHateVerizon.Com, where people complain about their service on popular hosted forums, also gets slowed to a crawl?

I have no doubt ISPs will now do this. Now the weird thing is Ajit & the flacks claim it won't happen. Thing is, with the repeal of Net Neutrality, I can't see why they wouldn't do this.

Yes, this will become a new form of censorship. And hey - they might claim that they're not blocking the sites (just slowing them to a crawl) so they are not "censoring" any content.

Also, maybe the user who constantly complains about his service provider suddenly notices he gets throttled in speed or is given tighter data caps ... think they won't try and do this as well?

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 Post subject: Re: It's Big ISP Day
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:02 am 
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Not to mention that those who are currently underserved will remain underserved. why shouldn't they in the view of idiots like Pai? Serving them costs the ISP's money.

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