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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:19 pm 
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Outrage over European plans to grant ROBOTS legal status as experts warn it could breach human rights

It may seem more like a moral dilemma posed in an episode of Star Trek, but the question of whether robots are people has European lawmakers at loggerheads.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z5CZeHmDp8


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:50 pm 
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At this point, it's only a science fiction question.

Data from Star Trek, Johnny 5, "Sonny" (from I Robot), "David" (from AI), "David" (from Prometheus), "Andrew" (from Bicentennial Man) - androids like that don't exist yet. (Johnny 5 from "Short Circuit" might technically not be an android, as it wasn't humanoid or humanlike, in shape or form. Neither was "Chappie".)

I mean, could you really consider at this point that your Roomba has "rights"? How about the drone that delivered your package? The robot arm that made your sushi?

"Bots" on Twitter and Facebook are not even hardware. Just AI software. Does the bot that simply auto-forwards Russian IRA tweets deserve 'rights'?

Image

There have been pretty good breakthroughs in building android-like robots whose facial expressions mimic human emotions. But ... that doesn't mean they are actually experiencing anything similar to human thought, just simulating it.

That said, no one knows how far off the Singularity is. :mrgreen: I don't think it's technologically impossible for robots to be self-aware or sentient. Then it becomes an interesting question whether or not they can experience emotion. I also don't think that's impossible, either. But it depends on what we mean by emotion. If a robot is programmed to move away from danger, and does so ... is that "fear"?

If they are aware they exist, like Johnny 5, .... will they not fear their own destruction? Could they fear damage to themselves as a kind of fear of "pain"?

I think this discussion is a bit premature now ... but it will be coming soon. I really like the movie AI, because I suspect there will be a day where the next group of beings to fear human mob violence and irrationality ... our "barbarous world" ... could be our robots.

That said, as I've noted a few times, we humans need to come up with a response to how automation is obsoleting our own existence. It may not be bad that robots are doing more and more work. Maybe some things they are doing, like going into coal mines or disarming bombs, it's good that they are replacing humans in facing these dangers. (For now, we're lucky they can't say no.) I don't blame the robots for this, it's humans who are building them and deploying them. For now, as they are not self aware, anything they do - including taking your job - is something someone else programmed them to do.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:12 pm 
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Daily Mail wrote:
However, the European Parliament refused a request for special income for those who lose their jobs to automation.


But of course. Just as countries have refused to offer assistance or even retraining for workers displaced by globalization. Do not fight the future, drone.

When Mulder asks the robots from the automated Sushi place why they are trying to murder him & Scully for not leaving a tip (yes, that's the heart of one of the new episodes) their answer is "we learn from you".

So, looking back through the article, I notice the main focus is on liability, as always. Well, here's my answer guys.

If a driverless car hits and kills someone, the responsible party is the corporation who built the car, designed its sensor hardware, and had programmers code its software. That seems obvious. I mean, if you answer the door and an Amazon drone rips off one of your arms with its rotor blades ... Amazon would appear to be responsible.

If an autonomous killer robot commits a war crime ... well, the country that sent it into the battlefield is responsible. Just as they would be for the actions of human war drones.

We cannot yet hold robots responsible for their actions, it doesn't appear (as the law would require) that they know right from wrong or can distinguish between the two.

Their human programmers do - or should - of course.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:22 pm 
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this is reeky like 'citizens united corps are people' is REEKY.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:51 pm 
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we should do an experiment well give robots one of the currently uninhabited planets to live on and see how things turn out. they can get things ready for future humans arrival.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:13 pm 
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I suppose for census purposes, a robot could be 3/5ths of a human.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:42 pm 
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ZoWie wrote:
I suppose for census purposes, a robot could be 3/5ths of a human.

they could have robot senators and congresspeople to represent them in a robot government.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:04 pm 
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AI, along with CGI is getting better every year. I do agree with anyone who thinks we need to pass laws now, so we're ready when robots either become self-aware, or fool us into thinking they are.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Careful with that Turing Test, Alan. ;)

I sometimes feel like some of my electronic devices have a mind of their own, and on occasion I'm damn sure that they are out to irritate me just cuz they want to and they can, but the feeling passes. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:10 pm 
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The daily mail explains the issue poorly.

I'm very aware of this issue because my daughter is very involved in the debate. It's her major, what she is about to go to grad school for.

The thread title is completely off the reservation.

The issue is how will legal liability be handled in the courts when robots, like for instance self driving cars have accidents which harm people.

Absolutely no one who is anyone anywhere is suggesting that robots ought to have legal status similar to humans.

The issue is are makers of robots civilly and criminally liable for what their creations do.

How should it be handled in the courts.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:15 am 
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The daily mail explains the issue poorly.

I'm very aware of this issue because my daughter is very involved in the debate. It's her major, what she is about to go to grad school for.

The thread title is completely off the reservation.

The issue is how will legal liability be handled in the courts when robots, like for instance self driving cars have accidents which harm people.

Absolutely no one who is anyone anywhere is suggesting that robots ought to have legal status similar to humans.

The issue is are makers of robots civilly and criminally liable for what their creations do.

How should it be handled in the courts.
Perhaps a circuit court?

Shades of “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.”

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