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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Your vitals, please.

BBC:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45590293
Quote:
One of the largest life insurance providers in North America will no longer offer policies that do not include digital fitness tracking.

John Hancock will now sell only "interactive" policies that collect health data through wearable devices such as a smartwatch.

...

"Naturally the American dystopian surveillance state will combine insurance with fat-shaming. Welcome to hell," said Matt Stoller, a fellow at the Open Markets Institute.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:14 pm 
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what kind of data are they wanting?
calories? choice of foods? conversations?

will alexa live in your watch? with a rumba in your pants.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:19 pm 
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This was one of the things tritumi advocated.

Thing is, he probably wanted people to wear a Fitbit that not only tracked physical activity, but how many and what kinds of calories you were intaking.

BTW, people have been pretty silent about Progressive and other car insurance companies asking you to use "Big Data" devices that track what you do while driving. Of course, so far, they're not MANDATING their customers use this technology, just encouraging it through discounts. Sure, on the one hand, these devices do track bad driving behaviors and thus may encourage safe driving. On the other hand, you are allowing a corporation to pretty much track and monitor everything you do in your vehicle, where you go, at what speeds, etc.

Oh and one more BTW ... speaking of fat shaming, which the kernel and trit shared some enthusiasm for, some new research and findings on obesity. It's not all a matter of being immorally and sinfully gluttonous.

I always found it weird that trit seemed to love Big Data tracking peoples' health/behavioral data, but was all paranoid about people using digital payments and not cash so their transactions could be tracked.

As I told him, I perfectly agree with programs like Michelle Obama's to ENCOURAGE people to do more physical activity and HELP them do it. THAT is a proper role for government, not tracking their health behaviors from moment to moment.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:37 pm 
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Quote:
....a proper role for government, not tracking their health behaviors from moment to moment.


the modern tech age, they have nothing else to do now.
they have less to do with each passing day. watching us is the new work.

Every breath you take
Every move you make
Every bond you break
Every step you take
I'll be watching you.
(The Police)

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
HST.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:55 pm 
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ohh heccccccccccccccccck nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:56 pm 
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This is where I draw the line. I will not go around with some ridiculous wrist device telemetering my vital signs and number of steps taken to some damn corporation. What next, a full tie-in? Give new meaning to the term, "kill switch?"

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:55 pm 
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yes, all the thieves can talk to alexa too, on oh so many more devices you put in your dwelling.
this is all so you Never have to get your big butt off the couch.

life in the future where you wont ever have to do anything but chew and swallow.
alexa will send you EVERY thing packed in a box made from declining wood trees
--the diseased ones all turned into some box making products which bring fungus into
your dwelling along with the pre made somewhere "food items"--while your butt
has Never left that big ole recliner in front of that tv which is washing your brain of anything useful.



https://www.salon.com/2018/09/20/amazon ... your-home/
Amazon’s terrifying new product lineup lets you fully Black Mirror-ify your home---
Amazon’s device head David Limp announced 70 new devices to help cede more of your life to the tech megalith
...
Interestingly, if the new devices become more than just a trend, they could change human behavior in the future.
Rather than doing, humans will be more susceptible to asking. For example, as noted in Amazon’s announcement,
with a AmazonBasics Microwave, one just has to ask Alexa to pop the popcorn instead of pressing the button. THE HORROR!!

so our politicians are wanting the billions of pieholes to ASK for things vs the old fashioned
"individualism" shit they fed out for 200years. ????
BUT WAIT...DONT THEY HATE THE CITIZENS WHO "ASK" FOR "THINGS"??

basically ama-zone is undermining the murican dream. for shame for shame.

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
HST.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:49 pm 
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This is where I draw the line. I will not go around with some ridiculous wrist device telemetering my vital signs and number of steps taken to some damn corporation. What next, a full tie-in? Give new meaning to the term, "kill switch?"


Free marketeers would tell you that you also don't have to business with John Hancock. You don't like the terms they set for your health/life insurance, do business with another provider.

Thing is, that sounds all nice and freedomish, but I guarantee they will all start doing the same things for the same reason. Let's face it, they want to charge more for people who are more obese and don't take the best care of their health. It's the same reason they would prefer not to cover people with pre-existing conditions -- if they could get away with doing it. Now, look, I think there is a public health role for government to encourage people to do healthier things. Just not tracking and monitoring their lives. BTW, it doesn't get much better for you if it's the private sector tracking and monitoring you, instead.

Insurance companies also want to do genetic profiling of people as a condition of obtaining/pricing health insurance. You know what stops them from doing it? Government regulations.

There's a place for the role of government. Preventing the private sector from surveilling your life through a corporate Panopticon.

Dunno. If you WANT to wear a Fitbit, think it can help you exercise more and get healthier... go for it. I just worry about our corporate mcWorld insisting they have a constant right of access to all the data it generates. Even if the entity doing it is also providing you with health insurance.

BTW, there is no device right now that tracks your food intake throughout the day, but my guess is John Hancock may be paying somebody to invent it. Of course, there are personal video recorders. All they have to do is record what you eat, someone else can input that and count the calories.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:07 pm 
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The issuance of life insurance has long been tied to health issues....including weight, blood vitals, medical history and family history. In my case an insurance company wouldn't issue a policy beyond a certain age because of family history. There were absolutely no health issues. The insurance company was direct that because it was based on this factor, there was nothing I could do...not gain weight, not lose weight, not exercise, not change activities, not agree to never be in a car, no medication, no change of diet...no nothing.

The issue is where will society draw the line. I can guarantee you that life insurance without regard to pre-existing conditions will end the industry. Everyone dies (in case you didnt know). Perhaps like heath insurance, this might be a place for everyone pays for life insurance, everyone gets the same and if you don't pay you are penalized. Of course that would be a major change 1) to an industry, 2) to how some people transfer wealth, 2) to how some people provide financial security. So I dont see it happening....(but then I didn't see Trump being elected either.)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:15 pm 
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The issuance of life insurance has long been tied to health issues....including weight, blood vitals, medical history and family history. In my case an insurance company wouldn't issue a policy beyond a certain age because of family history. There were absolutely no health issues. The insurance company was direct that because it was based on this factor, there was nothing I could do...not gain weight, not lose weight, not exercise, not change activities, not agree to never be in a car, no medication, no change of diet...no nothing.

The issue is where will society draw the line. I can guarantee you that life insurance without regard to pre-existing conditions will end the industry. Everyone dies (in case you didnt know). Perhaps like heath insurance, this might be a place for everyone pays for life insurance, everyone gets the same and if you don't pay you are penalized. Of course that would be a major change 1) to an industry, 2) to how some people transfer wealth, 2) to how some people provide financial security. So I dont see it happening....(but then I didn't see Trump being elected either.)


As I discussed with our pal tritumi, they DO charge more for policies for smokers. Sure, seems society accepts that, and it seems rational. Let's face it, odds are you will need more health care, and you did initially choose to smoke, even if you're an addict now.

I guess where I draw my line. Should they surcharge people for obesity? What level of obesity? Only the morbidly obese or the slightly overweight? What will be the threshold? Is it a per pound surcharge (seems to be what our pal trit was leaning towards.)

Should companies encourage people to exercise? Offer them a bonus to their paycheck if they join a gym? That kinda doesn't sound bad. Except, from the mirror perspective, they are penalizing the people who don't ...

You might get a maybe out of me on this stuff.

But, should they track, with Big Data, every calorie flowing into your mouth, and every microsecond of your physical activity (or lack thereof)? Well, like Zowie, and others, there, this member of society draws a line. There, my line says fuck no.

You want to wear a Fitbit to track this stuff for yourself? Sure, go for it. Nobody else has any "right" to that data it's generating other than you. Not even your insurer.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:23 pm 
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The problem is, that, for one purpose or another, that is already largely being done. The capability is certainly there.

And we usually offer up the information, innocently maybe, but voluntarily.

Not sure how to move back from big data.

On this particular topic, should life insurance be treated the same as health insurance.

There are always so many 'maybe' or 'maybe in some cases.' But each time its just one more small step.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:53 pm 
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Don't think it can be. We will never mandate everyone carry life insurance. It certainly wouldn't make sense to do it for unmarried people without children or other heirs.

Even folks with kids might opt not to carry a policy because, a) they think they will live forever :D or b) they're leaving them a sufficient estate, anyway. I can't see us even forcing people with kids to have it.

Health insurance wasn't mandated for people, either, up until ACA. Just auto insurance, and even then, of course, only IF you drive a vehicle. A lot of us, but not all.

BTW, I'm not challenging the idea that life insurance might also need to be pro-rated based on health factors. Of course policies will be more for smokers as well. More likely to die sooner.

I just don't agree with the tracking and monitoring from moment to moment.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:23 pm 
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Guy I know is really into the Apple Watch shit and says he got a per cent off on his insurance for wearing the fucking thing. They have an app. Everyone has an app. If Orwell wrote 1984 today, Big Brother would have to be an app.

I have no problem with financial incentives to wear the fucking things. I have a major problem with a future in which everyone is forced to walk around with enough instrumentation to outfit a spacecraft, while corporations check on whether you did your Strength Through Joy for the day.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:08 pm 
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I betcha the incentive is triggered not just by wearing it but by giving the insurance company access to the data it generates. I suspect they want more than the sales slip.

Slippery slope time. Maybe those incentives are acceptable. What about when they make it a mandatory condition of issuing a policy? (As I said, right now, Progressive Insurance simply "incentivizes" putting the Snapshot in your car. But what happens when they start requiring it?)

BTW, these scenarios remind me more and more of Michel Foucault and his book Discipline and Punish. He argued the modern state is more and more based not on an actual Panopticon (Big Brother's Eye in the Sky), but by getting each and every individual to engage in constant self monitoring.

Yes, some people called him a postmodern philosopher. :? I don't know if he ever self-identified that way.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:10 pm 
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I'd have more to say about this if it wasn't for the fact that I have no insurance of this type.

A couple times I did years ago when a bank wanted it.


If I did have that kind of insurance and a company pulled that stunt I'd be upset. I'd strap that wearable device to the horns of a deer.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:22 pm 
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this has little to do with health or "care" it mostly has to do with using tech to snoop on humans so
They can market more shit to said humans.
all of this shit is a Trojan. flooding homes cars using devices that report belches. minimum.
every conversation every joint every pizza.
do they care about abuse?..will they report that? what Will they Report?


https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/9/21 ... -of-things
Amazon’s smart microwave is a Trojan horse---
The company’s first kitchen appliance is harmless — and an easy way into a vast ecosystem.

But as The Verge points out, it’s “effectively a demo for [Alexa] Connect Kit,” which is the cheap Bluetooth and wifi module that Amazon will be trying to get other companies to affix to their normal, non-smart appliances, allowing Alexa to talk to them. The microwave has the simple module built in, demonstrating its capabilities to a whole new range of gadget-makers and to a demographic of consumers who might have previously heard of the Alexa Connect Kit and had absolutely no idea what it might be or what they might personally use it for.

It’s a Trojan horse: an inexpensive entry point, an easy graduation gift, a staple that sometimes needs replacing, and a not-so-intrusive and not-so-useful but also not un-useful household item that can get Alexa into the homes of people who have so far not seen any good reason to invite Alexa to live with them.

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
HST.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:10 pm 
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I betcha the incentive is triggered not just by wearing it but by giving the insurance company access to the data it generates. I suspect they want more than the sales slip.

Slippery slope time. Maybe those incentives are acceptable. What about when they make it a mandatory condition of issuing a policy? (As I said, right now, Progressive Insurance simply "incentivizes" putting the Snapshot in your car. But what happens when they start requiring it?)

BTW, these scenarios remind me more and more of Michel Foucault and his book Discipline and Punish. He argued the modern state is more and more based not on an actual Panopticon (Big Brother's Eye in the Sky), but by getting each and every individual to engage in constant self monitoring.

Yes, some people called him a postmodern philosopher. :? I don't know if he ever self-identified that way.


Oh, of course, the incentive is only for letting them monitor the data in real time. You know that they're not just checking to see if you're with Strength Through Joy, but also to sell it to Big Data off the back end.

Foucault got that one right. The surveillance society comes when people are manipulated into thinking it's cool for them to do it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:52 am 
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https://books.google.com/books/about/Wo ... ead_button

A little preview to read.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:33 pm 
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that race for A.I while sucking up all your personal details splashed across FB.
of course this ass-umes there actually is health care, medical care, out there which most
people, for good reasons, doubt. med people themselves will say there is no med care.
ive heard stories about Drs approaching families and offering to take grandpa off your hands.


https://www.propublica.org/article/heal ... your-rates
Health Insurers Are Vacuuming Up Details About You — And It Could Raise Your Rates--

Without any public scrutiny, insurers and data brokers are predicting your health costs based on data about things like race, marital status, how much TV you watch, whether you pay your bills on time or even buy plus-size clothing.

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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