Outrage Grows After Jordan Neely Was Choked to Death on the Subway

[ap215]

Outrage Grows After Jordan Neely Was Choked to Death on the Subway

Jordan Neely once wowed straphangers with his Michael Jackson impersonation, performing on the subway with an ultrasmooth moonwalk in his red Thriller jacket. But on Monday, he died inside the subway after an ex-Marine put him in a choke hold.

The final moments of Neely’s life were captured on video, fueling outrage over his death. Hours after the video was widely circulated on Wednesday, about 50 protesters crammed into the Broadway-Lafayette station’s F-train platform, where Neely’s lifeless body was removed from the train by first responders. The group stood over a spray-painted message on the concrete reading, “Jordan Neely was murdered here,” and denounced the increased police presence in the subways that still failed to stop Neely’s death. Surrounded by dozens of police on the platform, protesters chanted, “Abolition now!” Demonstrators were furious that a white man had killed a Black man and has yet to be charged. “You see someone being choked to death on the subway,” one protester shouted, “you fucking punch them!” Three demonstrators are arrested.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/05 ... -hold.html

[Motor City]

...Neely’s mental health, however, had been deteriorating since 2007, when his mother was strangled to death by her boyfriend and found in a suitcase on the side of the Henry Hudson Parkway.....

maybe people dont get the help they need cause there really isnt help to be had, as our society is currently organized around making things harder than they have to be and burdening the weak and frail with the heaviest loads.

[Glennfs]

maybe people dont get the help they need cause there really isnt help to be had, as our society is currently organized around making things harder than they have to be and burdening the weak and frail with the heaviest loads.

On that subject you couldn't be more correct. Mental health is one area where we are so behind it is ridiculous.
I've known people with mental health issues and little to no money and they get offered one meeting with a mental health care professional.

But, it goes far beyond that the stigma and lack of understanding of mental health issues knows no boundaries and crosses all political and financial fences.

In Patrick Kennedy's book about his and his family's struggles his dad Senator Kennedy told him he needed to toughen up.
Now there couldn't be two men more opposite than my dad and Senator Kennedy. Yet on that subject their opinion would be exactly the same.

My youngest daughter has struggled with substance abuse my friends are all of the same opinion as my dad and the late Senator primarily tell her to toughen up.

My mother had dementia but even early on when she still had most of her faculties she was in total denial and would never admit even to herself that she had a problem.

Telling a person with mental health issues to toughen up makes as much sense as telling my diabetic brother he doesn't need insulin he needs to toughen up.

As long as there is such a stigma and misunderstanding about most mental health issues among the general public I fear these issues will continue.

[ZoWie]

Mental health has been deteriorating ever since Ray Gun was elected governor of California, starting the process by which some warped form of social Darwinism became the law of the land. I've watched the resulting decline for most of my conscious life, and it's getting very hard to take.

[gounion]

Telling a person with mental health issues to toughen up makes as much sense as telling my diabetic brother he doesn't need insulin he needs to toughen up.

I suppose you would have told him to take Thalidomide too, right?

It's hilarious how you pick and choose what to believe when it comes to the medical profession.

[Glennfs]

Mental health has been deteriorating ever since Ray Gun was elected governor of California, starting the process by which some warped form of social Darwinism became the law of the land. I've watched the resulting decline for most of my conscious life, and it's getting very hard to take.

Many people believe our homeless problem is the result of ACLU lawsuits

https://www.aclu.org/other/aclu-history ... stitutions

[JoeMemphis]

Many people believe our homeless problem is the result of ACLU lawsuits

https://www.aclu.org/other/aclu-history ... stitutions

Playing the blame game doesn’t solve the problem. We are where we are and mental health is an issue and it is not getting better but worse. So the question is where do we go from here to get people the help they need?

[ZoWie]

Many people believe our homeless problem is the result of ACLU lawsuits

https://www.aclu.org/other/aclu-history ... stitutions

Bullshit.

It started because the only solution we took seriously for mental health care was to sequester victims in locked wards and try various dubious drug or electroshock treatments which were really more like punishment.

Frances Farmer died for our sins. Look it up. She was even a movie star and they killed her anyway. It's one of Hollywood's dirty little secrets.

Then Ronnie Ray Gun saw a place to save money so he could cut corporate taxes, and he closed those. There was only one thing worse than sticking anyone who was different in a mental institution, and that's exactly what we got. Next thing we knew they were all out on the street... or in the subway where it doesn't snow. Ray Gun was great at throwing out baby with bath water, and the whole Republican Party has been that way since.

This subway whacko guy in NYC is a classic example of the results of bad policy. Bad policy put him out on the street, and the violence caused by bad policy killed him, with the help of some typical asshole who never got over being a soldier when he was discharged.

The ACLU has no policy input whatsoever in DC. They try to maintain our civil rights with essentially nuisance suits, since no one else will go to bat for the people our culture has chosen to exclude while worshipping wealth and firepower.

[Glennfs]

Bullshit.

It started because the only solution we took seriously for mental health care was to sequester victims in locked wards and try various dubious drug or electroshock treatments which were really more like punishment.

Frances Farmer died for our sins. Look it up. She was even a movie star and they killed her anyway. It's one of Hollywood's dirty little secrets.

Then Ronnie Ray Gun saw a place to save money so he could cut corporate taxes, and he closed those. There was only one thing worse than sticking anyone who was different in a mental institution, and that's exactly what we got. Next thing we knew they were all out on the street... or in the subway where it doesn't snow. Ray Gun was great at throwing out baby with bath water, and the whole Republican Party has been that way since.

This subway whacko guy in NYC is a classic example of the results of bad policy. Bad policy put him out on the street, and the violence caused by bad policy killed him, with the help of some typical asshole who never got over being a soldier when he was discharged.

The ACLU has no policy input whatsoever in DC. They try to maintain our civil rights with essentially nuisance suits, since no one else will go to bat for the people our culture has chosen to exclude while worshipping wealth and firepower.

There is no legal way to institutionalize the subway guy legally.

[ZoWie]

Well, there sure isn't now, since the means of disposing of corpses typically involves cremation or burial.

I for one am sick of our cities being overrun with people who the system hasn't found a way to help. It's frankly a bigger problem than guns, and in fact the two problems are related in many cases.

We ignore mental health at our own peril. It tends to make all our other social problems worse. It's why everyone thinks civilization is in decline.

In most big cities, the alternatives for homeless are typically wretched badly maintained shelters or life on the street (or in the subway). The street is often preferable.

The only other thing I know for sure is that we just didn't have this problem until Ray Gun made the world safe for conservative economics based on bad data which has since been refuted by every known scholar in the field.

I don't have easy solutions, but I know that acting on bad data is the worst solution of them all. Inaction is the second worst.

[gounion]

Many people believe our homeless problem is the result of ACLU lawsuits

https://www.aclu.org/other/aclu-history ... stitutions

What a fucking hypocrite you are. On another thread you said how important mental health is, and how we need to do so much more, now you’re just blaming the ACLU. Either you want us to go all in to treat anyone that needs it, or you’re complaining that the ACLU is demanding that people are treated.

You’re just like every conservative, blame everything on mental illness instead of admitting that the right-wing hate and fear speech is driving people to murder.

After all, the Allen mall shooter was a neo-Nazi. Will you try to say that he was mentally ill?

[Glennfs]

What a fucking hypocrite you are. On another thread you said how important mental health is, and how we need to do so much more, now you’re just blaming the ACLU. Either you want us to go all in to treat anyone that needs it, or you’re complaining that the ACLU is demanding that people are treated.

You’re just like every conservative, blame everything on mental illness instead of admitting that the right-wing hate and fear speech is driving people to murder.

After all, the Allen mall shooter was a neo-Nazi. Will you try to say that he was mentally ill?

Stating a fact is not being a hypocrite. The aclu successfully sued in the 1970s so that no nonviolent person can be institionalized without that person's consent.

Instead of laying on the weeds trying to play gotcha why don't you attempt to add to the actual conversation

[gounion]

Stating a fact is not being a hypocrite. The aclu successfully sued in the 1970s so that no nonviolent person can be institionalized without that person's consent.

Instead of laying on the weeds trying to play gotcha why don't you attempt to add to the actual conversation

Again, your side keeps TALKING helping with mental health, but they don't do a fucking thing. They tried to do away with ObamaCare, with nothing to replace it with. ObamaCare forced insurance companies to cover mental health at the same rate as they do medical health.

And they could pass bills requiring people to get help, but they don't.

So it's just bullshit. You don't want to FIX anything, you just want to keep things as they are and blame the left for it.

[Glennfs]

Again, your side keeps TALKING helping with mental health, but they don't do a fucking thing. They tried to do away with ObamaCare, with nothing to replace it with. ObamaCare forced insurance companies to cover mental health at the same rate as they do medical health.

And they could pass bills requiring people to get help, but they don't.

So it's just bullshit. You don't want to FIX anything, you just want to keep things as they are and blame the left for it.

Once again you believe that the democratic party would fix the problem if not for those dastardly Republicans.....sigh

[gounion]

Once again you believe that the democratic party would fix the problem if not for those dastardly Republicans.....sigh

We could make things better, that's for sure.

Look, you admit you have no solutions at all. So, get the hell out of the way, and let someone stand up and do something.

We could certainly ban the assault weapons, like Ronald Reagan did.

[ProfX]

Lots of discussion about the mental health of Jordan Neely. And yes, I know his history of assaulting others, but he wasn't doing it that day.

How mentally healthy was the person who strangled him to death? Can we ask that question, too?

The first and root cause of homelessness is not mental health, but a lack of affordable housing.

I agree Neely needed help he wasn't getting - more than just mental health care. And he was kinda saying that right before he died.

[Glennfs]

Lots of discussion about the mental health of Jordan Neely. And yes, I know his history of assaulting others, but he wasn't doing it that day.

How mentally healthy was the person who strangled him to death? Can we ask that question, too?

The first and root cause of homelessness is not mental health, but a lack of affordable housing.

I agree Neely needed help he wasn't getting - more than just mental health care. And he was kinda saying that right before he died.

Unless the man who was protecting others on the subway intentionally killed the perp I do not believe he did anything wrong.

Now if it can be shown that he was of the mindset of if I ever encounter one of these subway perps they are going to suffer then it becomes a different story based on a different set of facts.

[JoeMemphis]

Lots of discussion about the mental health of Jordan Neely. And yes, I know his history of assaulting others, but he wasn't doing it that day.

How mentally healthy was the person who strangled him to death? Can we ask that question, too?

The first and root cause of homelessness is not mental health, but a lack of affordable housing.

I agree Neely needed help he wasn't getting - more than just mental health care. And he was kinda saying that right before he died.

Mental or not, the man had problems. He made threats on a subway car. Who know what were his intentions that day or what would have happened. Legally, the question revolves around how what he said was perceived by the people on that train and the law in NYC. Lots of witnesses and lots of video. Hopefully there will be a thorough and impartial investigation.

[ProfX]

Did he make threats? (I'm not getting into his prior history of assault - no evidence people that day knew about it).

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/06/us/jorda ... index.html

[snip]

Neely, a street artist known for his Michael Jackson impersonations, had begun shouting at passengers that he was hungry, thirsty, and had little to live for before Penny forced him to the floor in a chokehold until he stopped breathing.

[snip]

Neely’s death has been ruled a homicide by New York City’s medical examiner, but the ruling does not determine whether there was intent or culpability, which is a matter for the criminal justice system to consider. Charges have not been filed in the case, which is under investigation by the Manhattan district attorney.

A witness told CNN although Neely was acting erratically, he did not harm anyone nor did they see him armed with a weapon.

[snip]

Juan Alberto Vazquez was on the train when the deadly chokehold began and recorded the situation as it unfolded.

As soon as Neely got on the train, he started yelling about being “fed up and hungry” and “tired of having nothing,” Vazquez told CNN.

Before he was killed, Neely said, “I don’t care if I die. I don’t care if I go to jail. I don’t have any food … I’m done,” according to Vazquez.

As the yelling continued, many passengers became visibly uncomfortable and moved to other parts of the train car. Neely did not appear to be armed or looking to attack anyone, Vazquez told CNN.

[snip][end]

I get how this behavior could be seen as erratic and make people uncomfortable. But where did he threaten anybody specifically?

Yeah, I too want a fair and impartial investigation. Do I think the amount of force used to subdue Penny was proportionate? ... I guess we'll see.

[JoeMemphis]

Did he make threats? (I'm not getting into his prior history of assault - no evidence people that day knew about it).

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/06/us/jorda ... index.html

[snip]

Neely, a street artist known for his Michael Jackson impersonations, had begun shouting at passengers that he was hungry, thirsty, and had little to live for before Penny forced him to the floor in a chokehold until he stopped breathing.

[snip]

Neely’s death has been ruled a homicide by New York City’s medical examiner, but the ruling does not determine whether there was intent or culpability, which is a matter for the criminal justice system to consider. Charges have not been filed in the case, which is under investigation by the Manhattan district attorney.

A witness told CNN although Neely was acting erratically, he did not harm anyone nor did they see him armed with a weapon.

[snip]

Juan Alberto Vazquez was on the train when the deadly chokehold began and recorded the situation as it unfolded.

As soon as Neely got on the train, he started yelling about being “fed up and hungry” and “tired of having nothing,” Vazquez told CNN.

Before he was killed, Neely said, “I don’t care if I die. I don’t care if I go to jail. I don’t have any food … I’m done,” according to Vazquez.

As the yelling continued, many passengers became visibly uncomfortable and moved to other parts of the train car. Neely did not appear to be armed or looking to attack anyone, Vazquez told CNN.

[snip][end]

I get how this behavior could be seen as erratic and make people uncomfortable. But where did he threaten anybody specifically?

Yeah, I too want a fair and impartial investigation. Do I think the amount of force used to subdue Penny was proportionate? ... I guess we'll see.

I guess we will. I am happy this is not being rushed due to public pressure.

[Glennfs]

Did he make threats? (I'm not getting into his prior history of assault - no evidence people that day knew about it).

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/06/us/jorda ... index.html

[snip]

Neely, a street artist known for his Michael Jackson impersonations, had begun shouting at passengers that he was hungry, thirsty, and had little to live for before Penny forced him to the floor in a chokehold until he stopped breathing.

[snip]

Neely’s death has been ruled a homicide by New York City’s medical examiner, but the ruling does not determine whether there was intent or culpability, which is a matter for the criminal justice system to consider. Charges have not been filed in the case, which is under investigation by the Manhattan district attorney.

A witness told CNN although Neely was acting erratically, he did not harm anyone nor did they see him armed with a weapon.

[snip]

Juan Alberto Vazquez was on the train when the deadly chokehold began and recorded the situation as it unfolded.

As soon as Neely got on the train, he started yelling about being “fed up and hungry” and “tired of having nothing,” Vazquez told CNN.

Before he was killed, Neely said, “I don’t care if I die. I don’t care if I go to jail. I don’t have any food … I’m done,” according to Vazquez.

As the yelling continued, many passengers became visibly uncomfortable and moved to other parts of the train car. Neely did not appear to be armed or looking to attack anyone, Vazquez told CNN.

[snip][end]

I get how this behavior could be seen as erratic and make people uncomfortable. But where did he threaten anybody specifically?

Yeah, I too want a fair and impartial investigation. Do I think the amount of force used to subdue Penny was proportionate? ... I guess we'll see.

Those quotes sound like something a person would say before a killing spree

[gounion]

Those quotes sound like something a person would say before a killing spree

No, it doesn't.

[ZoWie]

No, what they say before a killing spree is typically in rambling online manifestos about how they blame everyone but themselves for their being losers, in their own minds at least, plus sometimes a "Watch this one, it'll be bigger than Uvalde."

[Glennfs]

No, what they say before a killing spree is typically in rambling online manifestos about how they blame everyone but themselves for their being losers, in their own minds at least, plus sometimes a "Watch this one, it'll be bigger than Uvalde."

I am sure that guy was aware of Uvalde in fact he was probably way up on the recent news cycle
(Gou that was sarcasm)

[gounion]

I am sure that guy was aware of Uvalde in fact he was probably way up on the recent news cycle
(Gou that was sarcasm)

Yeah, because blowing the heads off of children while the police stand outside the school having cigarettes is so fucking funny.