Out of whack?

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bradman
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Out of whack?

Post by bradman »

https://www.cpr.org/2021/12/22/rogel-ag ... -sentence/
Rogel Aguilera-Mederos gets new hearing. JeffCo DA will ask judge to shorten 110-year sentence
Jefferson County District Attorney Alexis King plans to ask a state judge on Monday to reduce trucker Rogel Aguilera-Mederos' sentence from 110 years to 20 to 30 years.

The trucker was sentenced to a more-than-life sentence for a 2019 crash on Interstate 70 eastbound that killed four people. King said she came to the conclusion after consulting with victims and victims' families all week.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by carmenjonze »

What is the thread title "Out of whack?" referring to?
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by bradman »

https://coloradonewsline.com/2021/12/22 ... a-mederos/
Capitol rally urges Gov. Polis to commute 110-year sentence of truck driver in I-70 crash
On April 25, 2019, Rogel Aguilera-Mederos was driving a semitrailer on Interstate 70 in Jefferson County when his brakes failed, according to testimony he later gave investigators.

The ensuing fiery crash killed four people, damaging and destroying 28 vehicles. Though the carnage apparently wasn’t intentional, Aguilera-Mederos faced 41 charges, including vehicular homicide. Aguilera-Mederos was not charged with driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

The 26-year-old Cuban immigrant was found guilty of 24 charges and sentenced on Dec. 16 to 110 years in prison.
Is 110 years out of whack?
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ProfX
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by ProfX »

So, I read the article, and all I can say is I would have to know more about the trial. Honestly.

The truck driver says his brakes failed. This is why he ended up causing an accident that killed 4 people.

I personally don't view that as manslaughter, can't quite see why that would be his fault (not even his personal negligence and he wasn't DUI), and for sure that 110 year sentence seems excessively harsh.

Now that said. I don't know what came out at the trial. Was there a brake expert who testified he was lying about his brakes failing? Was he possibly way exceeding speed for the weather and road conditions.

Now on the latter situation, that might well merit some prison time for intentional recklessness, but yeah, me too, I don't see 110 years aka an effective life sentence.
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by bradman »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... -sentence/
Prosecutor moves to reconsider 110-year sentence for truck driver whose brakes failed before crash
No one disputes that the brakes on Rogel Lazaro Aguilera-Mederos’s truck failed before the deadly Colorado highway collision that left four dead and half a dozen more injured.
+
Central to the trial: whether Aguilera-Mederos was responsible for a brake malfunction that caused him to ultimately lose control of the vehicle. A jury in October found Aguilera-Mederos guilty on dozens of counts, including vehicular homicide and first-degree assault.

“Either the defendant didn’t catch it like he was supposed to, or the defendant drove on his brakes the entire way and caused them to be that way,” a prosecutor said in court, according to KUSA. Prosecutors also argued that Aguilera-Mederos did not do everything in his power to avoid collision, noting that at one point, he drove past a runaway truck ramp.

Aguilera-Mederos’s defense argued that the brakes were already bad and that he should not be blamed for using faulty equipment. “Mr. Mederos had no idea that what he was dragging behind him from Houston was an inoperable trailer,” defense attorney James Colgan said in court, according to KUSA. “He had no idea that when he needed those trailer brakes, they weren’t going to exist.”
i used to go round and round with another poster that hated 18 wheelers. i'd hafta agree with him on this one. :)

The kid was way in over his head. He was in the wrong gear. You can overheat your brakes within 1/2 mile on a hill like that......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYqCLB2mDRw


Every driver is responsible for filling out a pre-trip inspection. Properly functioning brakes are on the list. Brakes don't pass inspection, truck should not move. That's the drivers responsibility.
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ProfX
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by ProfX »

So, then, I take it your view is he should have served some prison time (and I agree, if he really did fail to inspect the brakes prior to the trip, and was pushing the vehicle beyond recommendations) ... there's some culpable negligence.

However, 110 years of culpable negligence? Yeah, I agree with your OP. Punishment doesn't fit crime.
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by gounion »

Considering Derek Chauvin only got 22 years for murdering George Floyd, yes, this sentence is excessive.

Brad has a point.
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by ZoWie »

Rittenhouse has essentially been "sentenced" to a life of celebrity and a shot at a seat in the House after acquittal on a flagrant firearms violation leading to loss of life. Out of whack is not strong enough language for the current mess in the US.
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sam lefthand
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by sam lefthand »

ZoWie wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:45 pm Rittenhouse has essentially been "sentenced" to a life of celebrity and a shot at a seat in the House after acquittal on a flagrant firearms violation leading to loss of life. Out of whack is not strong enough language for the current mess in the US.
My estimation for Rittenhouse is dead by age of 30.

:|
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Number6
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by Number6 »

It took me awhile to find something about this case that I read a couple of days ago. When Aguilera-Mederos' brakes failed, he drove past at least one runaway truck ramp (see photo below). A runaway truck ramp is an emergency escape lane filled with sand or gravel that slows the truck to a stop. Aguilera-Mederos tried to pull his truck to the right-side of the road but there was a truck there preventing him from doing so.
Image
Prosecutors argued at trial that Aguilera-Mederos knew his brakes were failing but drove past at least one runaway truck ramp as he descended the mountains along Interstate 70 west of Denver.

He then recklessly weaved in and out of traffic before his trailer, which was hauling lumber, crashed into stopped traffic and burst into flames, triggering a 28-vehicle pile-up that killed four people and injured six, prosecutors said.
Rueters
Aguilera-Mederos' mistake was not taking the runaway truck ramp which then resulted in his causing the accident.

I agree his sentence is excessive and I wonder if the trucking company he worked for is being prosecuted for failing to ensure the truck's brakes were working properly.
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by Motor City »

proportionality

110 years is also unrealistic unless your minus ten years old and in great health. Its not just in the one area that proportion matters if you oversize your punishments they affect overwhelm all areas like budgets, and capacity to do justice and healing of communities and families, trust and transparency. Everything is connected, how true you are to justice and proportion will echo and reverberate all the way down the line.
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Glennfs
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by Glennfs »

Aside from the fact that the sentence is way to long and needs to be reduced there are things the press hasn't been telling us or stressing.

First the brake failure was not caused by a mechanical failure it was caused by driver error. That hill he was coming down might be the steepest in the country. Improper braking causes your brakes to get hot. The hotter your brakes get the less effective they become. Until thrt get to the point where they don't work at all.
Next I would bet his truck was an automatic. I refuse to drive an automatic because when I come down a mountain I want to be the person who selects the proper gear. Not some engineer sitting behind their slide rule.
Next is training. This guys immigration status isn't known. Either way we know he couldn't read write or speak enough English to read the signs. Plus it needs to be looked into how he obtained his license. Was he tested at a state facility or was it at a third party facility. If it were the latter there pass rate is probably close to 100pct.
Next is there is no doubt he hadn't been properly trained. So his company needs investigated to see if they were aware of his lack of training. Spoiler alert they were. By hiring people who aren't properly trained you can pay them less. By hiring immigrants legal or otherwise you can pay them less.
Lastly people who come here from third world countries do not know we have freedoms that they didn't have in their old country. As he was racing out of control down that mountain he probably was worrying about the consequences to his family if he took the escape ramp.
Bottom line is we need to make sure all new drivers are properly trained and close companies that take advantage of people new to our country.
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Glennfs
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by Glennfs »

Number6 wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:50 pm It took me awhile to find something about this case that I read a couple of days ago. When Aguilera-Mederos' brakes failed, he drove past at least one runaway truck ramp (see photo below). A runaway truck ramp is an emergency escape lane filled with sand or gravel that slows the truck to a stop. Aguilera-Mederos tried to pull his truck to the right-side of the road but there was a truck there preventing him from doing so.
Image



Aguilera-Mederos' mistake was not taking the runaway truck ramp which then resulted in his causing the accident.

I agree his sentence is excessive and I wonder if the trucking company he worked for is being prosecuted for failing to ensure the truck's brakes were working properly.
The brakes failed because of driver error not because of mechanical failure. They got extremely hot
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ProfX
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by ProfX »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:02 pm Next is training. This guys immigration status isn't known.
Every story I've seen says he is a Cuban immigrant and he came here - "to make a better life for him and his family". Now, BTW, it wasn't possible to "illegally" immigrate from Cuba to this country until 2011 (IIRC) so I guess I'd need more details on when he immigrated here, and how. Did he flee on a boat like many refugees?

I don't know how long he's been in this country. Obviously, also related to when and how he immigrated, and how much English he might have learned.
Either way we know he couldn't read write or speak enough English to read the signs.
Just curious. You know this - how?

BTW, my (ex) stepmom came to this country from Cuba as a child and was already largely bilingual when she came here because she went to a school in Cuba where they used both languages, and she watched a lot of American TV. (Back before the jamming days, they got a lot.)
Lastly people who come here from third world countries do not know we have freedoms that they didn't have in their old country. As he was racing out of control down that mountain he probably was worrying about the consequences to his family if he took the escape ramp.
It's interesting you're describing Cuba that way. I definitely agree it's less free than our country. :D In general, though, the U.S. government is rarely deporting Cubans back to Cuba except those intercepted at sea, so I really doubt he was worrying about that.

Oh and BTW glenn -- interesting the position you're taking as the people most behind the petition for his clemency are other truckers.

https://www.blackenterprise.com/petitio ... ignatures/

But mounting support is coming Aguilera-Medero’s way. Other truck drivers are rallying behind him after he was issued the lengthy sentence. Truckers nationwide are showing their support by using hashtags like #NoTrucksColorado and #DontDriveColorado to spread awareness on social media and threaten to stop moving goods to and from Colorado.

[snip][end]

Granted, perhaps their solidarity for him as a fellow trucker is not as affected by his ethnicity or immigration status. :roll:
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ZoWie
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by ZoWie »

I'm not a truck driver, just one of those above the line management types who the Teamsters tell their drivers not to fraternize with. Even so, I've read that he was in the wrong gear. Trucks have a lot of gears, and woe betide the driver who goes down a grade in the wrong one.

Also, as someone already noted, he seems to have bypassed the runaway-truck ramp. I see those all over SoCal, with the bailout ramp followed by the steep up-grade with the sand or dirt.

I can't see a 110-year sentence here. Jail time might be indicated, but that's crazy.
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Number6
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by Number6 »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:02 pm Aside from the fact that the sentence is way to long and needs to be reduced there are things the press hasn't been telling us or stressing.

First the brake failure was not caused by a mechanical failure it was caused by driver error. That hill he was coming down might be the steepest in the country. Improper braking causes your brakes to get hot. The hotter your brakes get the less effective they become. Until thrt get to the point where they don't work at all.
The brake failure probably was caused by overheating but what do the company's records indicate when the brakes were last inspected?
Next I would bet his truck was an automatic. I refuse to drive an automatic because when I come down a mountain I want to be the person who selects the proper gear. Not some engineer sitting behind their slide rule.
In his trial, he said he struggled to get his semi in gear before he lost his brakes so it would appear his truck wasn't an automatic.
He testified that he struggled to get his semi into gear when he lost his brakes as he headed down the foothills and crashed into traffic, causing a huge fire.
Denver CBS
Next is training. This guys immigration status isn't known. Either way we know he couldn't read write or speak enough English to read the signs. Plus it needs to be looked into how he obtained his license. Was he tested at a state facility or was it at a third party facility. If it were the latter there pass rate is probably close to 100pct.
I think this is your racism showing. There's no evidence from the OP link or any other article I've seen to support your claim "...he couldn't read write or speak enough English to read the signs." If you have information confirming "...he couldn't read or write or speak enough English to read the signs" then post the link.
Next is there is no doubt he hadn't been properly trained. So his company needs investigated to see if they were aware of his lack of training. Spoiler alert they were. By hiring people who aren't properly trained you can pay them less. By hiring immigrants legal or otherwise you can pay them less.
Again, speculative on your part. I have no doubt the prosecution looked into his training and had there been anything improper they would have presented it at his trial.
Lastly people who come here from third world countries do not know we have freedoms that they didn't have in their old country. As he was racing out of control down that mountain he probably was worrying about the consequences to his family if he took the escape ramp.
Can you get any more racist? Learning to become a truck driver isn't as difficult as learning to be a pilot, a nurse, or a computer programmer. Most people who can drive a car can learn to drive a semi; it's a teachable skill. It has nothing to do with them coming from a third world country or about our "freedoms" but about their ability.
Bottom line is we need to make sure all new drivers are properly trained and close companies that take advantage of people new to our country.
I agree every truck driver needs to be properly trained and they should have to periodically undergo retesting at least every five years. With the American birthrate declining, our country is going to have to rely on more immigrants to fill job openings American born people can't fill. I have no problems with immigrants becoming truck drivers provided they can read, write, and understand English, are properly trained/tested, and licensed.
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by carmenjonze »

Today in Whites Are the Victims of Racism, Now...
Glennfs wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:02 pmThis guys immigration status isn't known. Either way we know he couldn't read write or speak enough English to read the signs.
You yourself are marginally literate. You can barely express yourself in English, and your writing and grammar is atrocious.

But then, you're not an immigrant with a Spanish surname in Colorado, nor are you perceived as one.
Lastly people who come here from third world countries do not know we have freedoms that they didn't have in their old country.
And you're certain of this because...
By hiring immigrants legal or otherwise you can pay them less.
Republican HR theory in action.
I have no problems with immigrants becoming truck drivers ...
I really hope if you're ever in the same situation, you don't get 110 years, do you think that would be warranted?

But then, you're not an immigrant with a Spanish surname in Colorado, nor are you perceived as one.
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by marindem01 »

Only Glenn could boil down this tragedy to being about Undocumented, Illiterate Aliens. Never mind the fact that Glenn's history and poor grammar of legend. As Carmen put it, Glenn does not have an Hispanic last name and is white. Makes all the difference in the world.
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by bradman »

Here's a decent run down. It includes the apparent need for a interpreter.........

https://www.truckinginfo.com/330768/wha ... ruck-crash

Much of it is still speculation.

i'm guessing he had little or no trailer brakes to begin with. It's why one witness noticed the tractor brakes smoking but no smoke coming from the trailer brakes.

>He couldn't get it in gear? Does that mean he was out of gear on the way down?

It can happen. A run away truck out of gear can be damn near impossible to bring back into gear. You really have to know what you're doing. The rpms have to match the speed of the truck. Instinct says you want a lower gear to slow the rig down. But, to get it under control you have to do the opposite. Pick a higher gear, get in it, and then try to work yourself back down through the gears one by one with the throttle pedal buried.
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by ZoWie »

Right, you have to watch your engine and drive train revs, like driving old non-synchro race cars.

The leap from a training issue with a poor guy who was obviously on more hill than he could handle to some kind of racial thing is precisely what is wrong with this country.

Doesn't matter if he was a Cuban or Black or Native American or a white guy. Mattered that he overheated his brakes on one of the steepest hills in the US Interstate Highway System. He should not have been in that truck on that road. Maybe a mechanical defect that didn't get caught, maybe just out of his depth. Either way, not racial or even linguistic.

Trucks wipe out all the time, and race hasn't the least thing to do with it. The fact that it became racialized here says all I need to know about the state of racial consciousness in this country. It's a pretty sad situation.
Last edited by ZoWie on Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by carmenjonze »

marindem01 wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:07 pm Only Glenn could boil down this tragedy to being about Undocumented, Illiterate Aliens. Never mind the fact that Glenn's history and poor grammar of legend. As Carmen put it, Glenn does not have an Hispanic last name and is white. Makes all the difference in the world.
Glennfs is a white supremacist.
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by marindem01 »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:02 pmNext is training. This guys immigration status isn't known.
What does his immigration status have to do with price of tea in London?

You are making a racist assumption based on his name alone.

You make an assumption as to what kind of transmission his vehicle, without any real knowledge at all. You do not know what kind of transmission the vehicle had, but because the driver is Hispanic must be an automatic, only Caucasians can a Manual Transmission. How do you know what languages this man could read, but because he has an Hispanic last name, wow he sure as hell don't read English.

Nor do you know his training and you assuming because he has an Hispanic Last Name that his training is somehow inadequate. You reduce a human tragedy to race and immigration status....disgusting.
Last edited by marindem01 on Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by ProfX »

OK... so I note these things:

[from the above]
I wonder if the driver, who was said to require an interpreter during his police debriefing, couldn't read the overhead runaway ramp signs and therefore understand that he had just driven past his last hope of salvation.

The driver, Houston-based, 23-year-old Rogel Lazaro Aguilera-Mederos, is a U.S. Permanent Resident from Cuba, here legally with a green card.

[snip][end]

So:
a) a permanent legal resident from Cuba (almost all are; they got automatic resident status up until Obama changed that)
b) now as for being cited for being unable to read road signs - maybe - here's the thing - I have no doubt his English may not have been good enough to converse with officers without an interpreter, especially after a stressful event - but I seriously doubt the trucking company allowed him to drive without being unable to read road signs. Now I don't know why he didn't take the safety off-ramps -- but I'm not sure it was due to him being unable to read the sign.

Yes - it is speculation on the author's part - yes the company got a different driver cited for inability to read road signs - but the fact that the driver here needed an interpreter isn't proof positive this Cuban driver did.

BTW, there is this information in the article, which I think is relevant to a question No6 asked above:

[again from the above]
On the maintenance front, the company's (Castellano 03 Trucking LLC, of Houston, Texas) carrier safety profile shows it incurred 30 violations since the fall of 2017, 10 of them brake related. Those brake citations include one count of (393.45), "Brake tubing and hose adequacy;" three counts of (393.45(b)(2)), "Brake hose or tubing chafing and/or kinking;" three counts of (393.47(e)), "Clamp or Roto-type brake out-of-adjustment;" and three counts of (393.53(b)), "CMV manufactured after 10/19/94 has an automatic airbrake adjustment system that fails to compensate for wear" (aka automatic brake adjusters or automatic slack adjusters.)
[end]

So, yes, the trucking company has a brake-related rap sheet.
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:02 pm Aside from the fact that the sentence is way to long and needs to be reduced there are things the press hasn't been telling us or stressing.

First the brake failure was not caused by a mechanical failure it was caused by driver error. That hill he was coming down might be the steepest in the country. Improper braking causes your brakes to get hot. The hotter your brakes get the less effective they become. Until thrt get to the point where they don't work at all.
Next I would bet his truck was an automatic. I refuse to drive an automatic because when I come down a mountain I want to be the person who selects the proper gear. Not some engineer sitting behind their slide rule.
Next is training. This guys immigration status isn't known. Either way we know he couldn't read write or speak enough English to read the signs. Plus it needs to be looked into how he obtained his license. Was he tested at a state facility or was it at a third party facility. If it were the latter there pass rate is probably close to 100pct.
Next is there is no doubt he hadn't been properly trained. So his company needs investigated to see if they were aware of his lack of training. Spoiler alert they were. By hiring people who aren't properly trained you can pay them less. By hiring immigrants legal or otherwise you can pay them less.
Lastly people who come here from third world countries do not know we have freedoms that they didn't have in their old country. As he was racing out of control down that mountain he probably was worrying about the consequences to his family if he took the escape ramp.
Bottom line is we need to make sure all new drivers are properly trained and close companies that take advantage of people new to our country.
Okay, a few things. I figured that Glenn could give us some expert opinion here, and to some degree, he did.

However, immigration status - I was able to find that with just one google search - right here. The article states he's a Cuban immigrant. If he was illegal, it would have been in the article. It's very easy to legally immigrate to the USA from Cuba, unlike from Mexico. Also, his English isn't bad, so it's quite possible if not probable that he can read and write English.

Now, he is only 23 years old, and probably panicked and didn't know WHAT to do.

Questioning the state of maintenance on the truck and what kind of training he had are very good points to be made.

I'll also point out that the people that Glenn votes for, the GOP, wants to make it legal for Mexican trucks and Mexican drivers to drive all over our nation. That's something that I'm against.

Now, let's be honest. There would have not even been a court case had this been a white male truck driver. It's pretty obvious his ethnicity was a big part of this.

But truckers are coming to his defense. And it's also pointed out that a white male with money can drive drunk and kill people and walk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hp-l3nxUcc

Are we not surprised?

Yes this is a travesty of injustice.
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Re: Out of whack?

Post by ProfX »

gounion wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:18 pm It's very easy to legally immigrate to the USA from Cuba,
Actually, up until Obama ended the 1965 Cuban Adjustment Act (which Clinton only modified in 1995), it basically was impossible to "illegally" immigrate from Cuba as everyone making it to U.S. soil, whether by boat, raft, or inner tube, got automatic asylum.

Even still, Cuban refugees are rarely deported unless intercepted at sea, even today.

That's in contrast to Haitians, which have to apply for asylum and/or TPS - even after their country has seen a history of horrific natural disasters, cholera epidemics, and of course political assassination and dictators - and I believe usually only see 20% of applications approved.
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