How the rich DON'T pay taxes

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gounion
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Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:59 pm

How the rich DON'T pay taxes

Post by gounion »

Our righties on the board defend the rich and say - falsely - that they pay MORE than their fair share of taxes.

They don't. In an ongoing series, ProPublica is uncovering how this happens. The first in the series was The Secret IRS Files: Trove of Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax:
Taxes are a kind of collective sacrifice. No one loves giving their hard-earned money to the government. But the system works only as long as it’s perceived to be fair.

Our analysis of tax data for the 25 richest Americans quantifies just how unfair the system has become.

By the end of 2018, the 25 were worth $1.1 trillion.

For comparison, it would take 14.3 million ordinary American wage earners put together to equal that same amount of wealth.

The personal federal tax bill for the top 25 in 2018: $1.9 billion.

The bill for the wage earners: $143 billion.
Now I know the defenders of the ultra-rich, JoeMemphis, Glenn and BluDogDem/GreenGrass, will probably jump in to say that oh, the rich are overtaxed, but the reality is quite different.

Another in the series just came out - These Real Estate and Oil Tycoons Avoided Paying Taxes for Years, on how real estate and oil tycoons don't have to pay taxes. On thing that stood out to me was this -
Then, there are even more tax benefits that can be used when they do meet their demise — at least to benefit their heirs. For starters, all the gains in the value of the moguls’ properties are wiped out for tax purposes (a process known by the wonky phrase “step-up in basis”). The tax slate is similarly wiped clean when it comes to the depreciation write-offs that were taken on the properties. The heirs don’t have to pay depreciation recapture taxes.

Real estate heirs then get another quirky benefit: They can depreciate the same buildings all over again as if they’d just bought them, using the piggy bank of write-offs to shield their own income from taxes.

As for Ross, after filing his taxes for 2017, he still had a storehouse of tax losses that ProPublica estimates exceeded $440 million. It was entirely possible that he’d never pay federal income taxes again.
But the apologists for the ultra-wealthy will still pretend the rich pay more in taxes than us working stiffs. And they do it for free! Idiots.
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ZoWie
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Re: How the rich DON'T pay taxes

Post by ZoWie »

It's fine to say the rich do pay their fair share UNDER THE LAW, but the fallacy comes because they've seen to it that the law is biased in their favor. When the numbers get laid out as plainly as ProPublica did, we see what's really going on.

I can say with authority from years of experience with sleaze-ridden city politics that the really wealthy big-time developer types all have a little Donald Drumpf in them, or they wouldn't last in that business. They know how to pull the strings and get the breaks. They know which palms they can grease and which ones they can't. They cut their teeth getting 6-story condos approved in 2-story zones, and worked up from there. They're lawyered up, connected, and ready to play the system.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
Bludogdem
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Re: How the rich DON'T pay taxes

Post by Bludogdem »

Eliminate the tax benefits and watch real estate development and oil and natural gas production plummet.

Although, I have stated my opposition to the step up basis which, oddly, was reinstated in 2010.

And I’m sure the producers of the article failed to mention the development costs, loans expenses, and the like.

They really should quit whining about taxes not being paid on unrealized gains. Not going to happen.
gounion
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Re: How the rich DON'T pay taxes

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:57 pm Eliminate the tax benefits and watch real estate development and oil and natural gas production plummet.

Although, I have stated my opposition to the step up basis which, oddly, was reinstated in 2010.

And I’m sure the producers of the article failed to mention the development costs, loans expenses, and the like.

They really should quit whining about taxes not being paid on unrealized gains. Not going to happen.
The Bill O’Reilly argument - of COURSE you’re going to make it, GreenGrass. “Oh, if you tax me, I’ll stop doing anything, and YOU’LL BE SORRY!”

I doubt that any of these people will stop doing what they do. If so, fine. Other people will step up and do it.

It’s hilarious the arguments you conservatives make.

History shows that people were STILL in business back when the top tax rate was seventy percent.
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Libertas
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Re: How the rich DON'T pay taxes

Post by Libertas »

gounion wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:54 pm The Bill O’Reilly argument - of COURSE you’re going to make it, GreenGrass. “Oh, if you tax me, I’ll stop doing anything, and YOU’LL BE SORRY!”

I doubt that any of these people will stop doing what they do. If so, fine. Other people will step up and do it.

It’s hilarious the arguments you conservatives make.

History shows that people were STILL in business back when the top tax rate was seventy percent.
And history has proven them wrong over and over, plus we should nationalize oil anyway.

I dont know how you do it, talk to these liars who support the fascist takeover of our country. But I am entertained so keep doing it. :lol:
I sigh in your general direction.
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Number6
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Re: How the rich DON'T pay taxes

Post by Number6 »

gounion wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:54 pm The Bill O’Reilly argument - of COURSE you’re going to make it, GreenGrass. “Oh, if you tax me, I’ll stop doing anything, and YOU’LL BE SORRY!”

I doubt that any of these people will stop doing what they do. If so, fine. Other people will step up and do it.

It’s hilarious the arguments you conservatives make.

History shows that people were STILL in business back when the top tax rate was seventy percent.
Bombas' inference they'll stop investing their money is a crock because the simple question is what will they do with their money? If the put it in the bank or CD or government bonds the interest rates on those is very small. They'll still invest in stocks because that's will they'll get their best return.
When you vote left, you vote right.
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