RUST set shooting....

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rainwater
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RUST set shooting....

Post by rainwater »

the AD on RUST set, the assistant director on the set...had Another gun incident on a diff movie set recently.

he is the one who apparently handed the gun to Alex. meanwhile, the girl who loaded this weapon admits she
didnt know what she was doing in a recent film event when she was again loading a weapon for a flic.

question remains why they use live ammo AT ALL anywhere around a movie set.
why live ammo.

i guess its one thing to bring your own gun but to have live ammo AT ALL near a movie film set...a film set...why?
is it just a macho thingy....cant think of ANY other reason.
its a fucking fiction movie. no live ammo needed.

'Rust' Assistant Director Was Fired From Movie Set After 2019 Prop Gun Incident
Newsweek on MSN.com7h

dave halls...a diff 'unexpectedly discharged' incident. hell never work again and could go to jail.
Who are these..flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it. Fuck them.
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47of74
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by 47of74 »

I saw the orange fornicate spawn is trying to make political shit out of this.
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sam lefthand
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by sam lefthand »

Image

This is a pinned tweet at the Daily New's Twitter:

https://twitter.com/NYDailyNews?ref_src ... 14320f49e8




:?

I think a Twitter is some kind of underworld varmint.
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ZoWie
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by ZoWie »

rainwater wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:54 am question remains why they use live ammo AT ALL anywhere around a movie set.
why live ammo.

i guess its one thing to bring your own gun but to have live ammo AT ALL near a movie film set...a film set...why?
is it just a macho thingy....cant think of ANY other reason.
its a fucking fiction movie. no live ammo needed.
Considerable confusion over what constitutes a live weapon. Blanks can kill, so a live gun is anything with the means of going bang, regardless of what's actually going to come out of the barrel. Basically, if anything at all is in a weapon, it's fire in the hole, and grown up people on real sets with real rules will follow drills that keep everyone as safe as possible.

There's no excuse for anything but fake replica guns in rehearsals. Even those should be treated as weapons, and not pointed at anyone any more than action requires. The latest buzz on the Nooz concerns the fact that the shot was accidentally fired during a camera rehearsal to line up angles, if even that, and that personnel did not take any safety precautions AT ALL. This suggests to me that children were doing grown up people's work. There is no evidence whatsoever that would lead me to consider RUST's location in Santa Fe anything even close to a properly run set. Reasons:

1. Low budget indy to begin with, corners were were cut from the first above the line meetings on. Above the line producers attempted big time movie making on small time money.

1a. Unqualified AD handed weapon from unqualified prop person who worked for unqualified armorer.

1b. Unqualified AD and unqualified armory had long record of being who you hire if you wanted to shoot on the cheap and ignore union rules, not to mention set safety. The armorer barely qualified as same.

2. The only thing more dangerous than prolonged location shooting in remote areas is when people without the proper regard for proven safety procedures start playing cowboy. This is common with the kind of people who can do this sort of thing for a living year after year without serious problems regarding normal life the way we understand same. Many of these fancy themselves as the last of the Wild West. The story for this particular movie sounds like real Shootout At The OK Corral stuff, and I can easily see the line between story and reality becoming weaker than would be comfortable for proper working conditions.

2a. This particular location shoot has a lot of second-hand reports of some really irresponsible behavior with firearms, including the ones that should have been kept locked in the armory. One story describes the same weapons that were being used (supposedly empty) for hand props on-set also being used off-set for target shooting and general blowing off steam. Then of course, if you're out in the desert with a bunch of expensive stuff, the question of security comes up, but I don't know the status of whatever other weapons were present for this use.

2b. Unfortunately, most of the available information is word of mouth, and second-hand news reports by media which love to play up anything to do with "Hollywood." The facts will dribble out later.

--

Conclusion: It's all hearsay, but the evidence begins to converge on a chaotic situation that resembles real grownup people's motion picture production the same way a street riot resembles a Navy Seal operation.

I'm wondering whether this hard lesson regarding the industry's safety issues will lead a majority to demand greater concessions, and reject the recent contract just negotiated by the IA leaders and the AMPTP. While I doubt it, we will have to wait and see.
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gounion
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by gounion »

Had a good friend in my hometown back in the day that did some movies, was a SAG member, and did special effects such as explosions and gun work. He was small time, but educated and very safety-minded.

In the seventies, he had a gunfighter group that did gunfights at our local western living history museum. By the early eighties, the museum had stopped the gunfights. But he still was asked to do special events and such. I worked with him on several, as I loved theater and did a bunch of drama in high school.

He didn't like ever using someone who was a gun nut, and would always play with their guns all the time. He used guys like me that left the weapon in the holster, took it out to use it as directed, then put it back.

His weapons never had anything in them but blanks. I can't remember for sure, but I think he had set them up so that you couldn't load real bullets, but I could be wrong - it was a long time ago. We also used shotguns and such.


He put us through heavy safety training, We had to be over 20 feet from someone before shooting. We weren't to point the guns directly at anyone, but off to the side. He also taught us stunt fighting and we even used some of the fake bottles to break over our heads and such. We did that and other minor stuntwork, but no horses or such.

Of course, in today's world, it wouldn't be deemed safe, but we never had more than scrapes and bruises. But it was always business, no horsing around (so to speak) or you were thrown out right away.

It was a lot of fun.
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Libertas
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by Libertas »

If I was the lawyer for the family of the deceased, I would be very happy having read this.

As their lawyer I would know that the road to economic justice will be relatively easy.

BUT the problem is does the LLC that owns the production have any money? Probably not, and god dammit Alec Baldwin you are one of the main producers and you HAD to know you were hiring people KNOWN for cutting corners! Even if you had not accidentally shot these people, someone else likely would have.

This is what I am sure is the case and INFURIATING
1b. Unqualified AD and unqualified armory had long record of being who you hire if you wanted to shoot on the cheap and ignore union rules, not to mention set safety. The armorer barely qualified as same.
ZOWIE what is the rumor about people playing with guns? I havent read that yet.

Found it

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/26/entertai ... index.html
"There's this pastime that crew members sometimes do, it's called 'plinking,' and they go out into the rural areas and they shoot at beer cans. This is with live ammunition. We learned that this happened the morning of the day that Halyna Hutchins was killed," Waxman said.
Waxman told CNN that "plinking" is common when there's downtime during a shoot.
Plinking is common? How can shooting real bullets with a real gun on a movie set be COMMON? :twisted:
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ZoWie
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by ZoWie »

Per official PD presser in Santa Fe NM:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/le ... f-n1282488
'Lead projectile' killed cinematographer on 'Rust' set, Santa Fe County sheriff says

"There was some complacency on this set, and I think there are some safety issues that need to be addressed by the industry [duh -Z] and possibly by the state of New Mexico," Mendoza told reporters in Santa Fe.
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Ted
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by Ted »

This whole incident sucks for everyone involved.

At some point, we will learn more details about what happened that day and I hope this was truly an accident and not incompetence or carelessness.

Unfortunately, too many are too quick to take sides when something bad happens to certain people but this is the situation we have created and we, as a society, have noone to blame for it but ourselves.
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by Libertas »

Yes, righty and nobody else takes sides and attacks Alec because he appropriately portrayed trump as the vile criminal ass that he is.
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by gounion »

Libertas wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:43 pm Yes, righty and nobody else takes sides and attacks Alec because he appropriately portrayed trump as the vile criminal ass that he is.
I think that, as the actor, this was NOT his fault, and it's just a horrible accident.

Now, he may WELL deserve criticism as a producer of the show that cut corners and safety, so much that the union crew resigned rather than work on an unsafe set.
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by Libertas »

gounion wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:46 pm I think that, as the actor, this was NOT his fault, and it's just a horrible accident.

Now, he may WELL deserve criticism as a producer of the show that cut corners and safety, so much that the union crew resigned rather than work on an unsafe set.
He and others may well be criminally liable, not just civilly or monetarily, based on what we have heard.

His actions at the moment of shooting are likely not criminal in that he obviously didnt know it was loaded, BUT the entire production may well turn out to be one operated on the cheap and this was the inevitable result.

What I dont know is if the production is an LLC that will protect his and others personal assets.
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by gounion »

Libertas wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:49 pm He and others may well be criminally liable, not just civilly or monetarily, based on what we have heard.

His actions at the moment of shooting are likely not criminal in that he obviously didnt know it was loaded, BUT the entire production may well turn out to be one operated on the cheap and this was the inevitable result.

What I dont know is if the production is an LLC that will protect his and others personal assets.
I'm QUITE sure it's an LLC, no one does these without doing so. And, so, like any other corporation, I doubt that any criminal charges will be brought. May face some fines.

I'd also say this movie will never be finished.
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by Libertas »

gounion wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:55 pm I'm QUITE sure it's an LLC, no one does these without doing so. And, so, like any other corporation, I doubt that any criminal charges will be brought. May face some fines.

I'd also say this movie will never be finished.
No criminal charges against the LLC but maybe the officers. This is the legal part I am not sure of...they may well be shielded from monetary or civil damages but they may also be able to be indicted on criminal charges like involuntary manslaughter.
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by gounion »

Libertas wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:57 pm No criminal charges against the LLC but maybe the officers. This is the legal part I am not sure of...they may well be shielded from monetary or civil damages but they may also be able to be indicted on criminal charges like involuntary manslaughter.
It just almost never happens. It should, but it just doesn't.
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by Bludogdem »

My brother once told me if “someone tells you the gun isn’t loaded, check and make sure it isn’t loaded. “
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by gounion »

Via Variety:

Real Guns Aren’t Needed on Film and TV Sets, Experts Say, Amid Calls for a Permanent Ban:
Bandar Albuliwi, a filmmaker and author of the Change.org petition, is incredulous that the practice of using real firearms carries on, citing deaths of actor Brandon Lee on the set of the 1993 film “The Crow” and camerawoman Sarah Jones on the 2014 production of “Midnight Rider” (unrelated to firearms) as prior examples that should have made set safety a top priority across the industry.

“This shouldn’t have happened after Brandon Lee basically shot himself,” said Albuliwi. “Hollywood hasn’t changed in 30 years. We again thought we’d learned our lesson about better protocols with ‘Midnight Rider.’ That caused a little stir but dissipated. This speaks volumes about our industry because, in this event, this only got attention because it involved an A-list actor like Alec Baldwin.”

Cameron Kasky, a survivor of the 2018 Parkland mass shooting and gun control activist, agrees with Albuliwi. “All real guns should be banned from sets,” he says. “Fake guns look very real. If studios have even the slightest regard for workers, real guns would be completely out of the question.”

For decades, real firearms with blank ammunition have been used in film and TV productions because they visually recreate actual gunfire. But in discussions with industry insiders and visual effects experts, all of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity, many said that advances in visual effects technology mean banning real weapons would result in virtually no sacrifice to the look and feel of a finished piece of content.
And here's the interesting part:
Taking real firearms off a set would also remove potential lethal hazards caused by the kind of negligence that’s been alleged to have occurred on “Rust” — from union crews walking and the hiring of scabs, to improper protocols handling weaponry. Veterans in the production coordination space, basically those in charge of “Hollywood’s back office” as one put it, said that standard safety protocols often go overlooked, particularly on productions outside entertainment’s backyard in Los Angeles.

“West Coast unions require safety classes through CSATF,” said one top production coordinator, referring to the digital portal Contract Services, which provides training and other functions for film and TV shoots.

Through Contract Services, employees take state-mandated courses like sexual harassment education and, of course, safety training. These union-mandated program also issues daily safety bulletins with the production call sheet, briefing the entire production on the stunts and other hazards of the day.

“We’re supposed to check the status of each and every union crew member before they are hired,” says the coordinator. “This isn’t nationwide and people don’t often use it.”

These issues speak to a larger, more pernicious attitude involving on-set safety and wellbeing — and a culture of silence that has kept people from speaking up.
Just another example of the importance of unions.
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rainwater
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by rainwater »

seems like since it was the open wilds of NM im Sure all this weaponry And Ammo...500 rounds of blanks and lives ...
was thot of as fun times in NM desert. theyd not have done this in NYC.

half the crew walked off earlier That Day due to shitty work conditions. someone then hired non-union. that day.
which of these two groups were using The Gun to plink beer cars earlier that day...is still unknown.
someone put it back in the pile.

yes they used the same gun to shoot beer cans earlier that day.

this production set was a freakin mess.
NM will have to require some legal set changes for these movies.
Who are these..flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it. Fuck them.
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by ZoWie »

There was a radius around a specified point in Los Angeles within which the strictest union rules applied. This showed up in all the agreements that above the line people were supposed to be familiar with. The center point used to be in West Hollywood, where the MPAA or the AMPTP or some similar group had some kind of office, and there was kind of a demilitarized zone where unions and management groups both held meetings and stuff. I went there to interview for a camera union trainee program that I didn't get into. This is centuries ago, of course, so it might well have changed.

The situation at that time, and probably now too, was that rules became more lax the farther you got from this zone. Sometimes this was due to state laws designed to attract productions, and sometimes it was just the way things were done.

Look, the only reason that I "came out" this year as a recovering movie type was because the IATSE was considering a strike. I was never in the IA, being management, but I spent enough time line-producing on non-union sets to see what the situation was. I assure you that it has become probably twice as bad in recent years. The "third screen" streaming maw is bottomless, the way TV was at first, and any kind of work/life boundary borders on nonexistent.

Don't take it from a bitter old former film maker, take it from those currently subjected to the the 24/7 demands on their time and the total decoupling of work from life. LA is crawling in them. They, surprisingly, all tell the same story that I do. The evidence does support the first impression, which is of an industry currently devoid of meaningful curbs on abuse from highly speculative one-shot LLC production groups that vanish when the lawsuits start.

We are in full solidarity on this. Really, that's all I want to say on the subject. It's not all that unique in the post Ronnie Ray Gun world, just that since it's the entertainment business everyone's interested in it. It's a wider problem, and you know where I'm going to come down on it every time, in every industry, every time labor stands up for its rights.
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Libertas
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by Libertas »

ZoWie wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:55 pm There was a radius around a specified point in Los Angeles within which the strictest union rules applied. This showed up in all the agreements that above the line people were supposed to be familiar with. The center point used to be in West Hollywood, where the MPAA or the AMPTP or some similar group had some kind of office, and there was kind of a demilitarized zone where unions and management groups both held meetings and stuff. I went there to interview for a camera union trainee program that I didn't get into. This is centuries ago, of course, so it might well have changed.

The situation at that time, and probably now too, was that rules became more lax the farther you got from this zone. Sometimes this was due to state laws designed to attract productions, and sometimes it was just the way things were done.

Look, the only reason that I "came out" this year as a recovering movie type was because the IATSE was considering a strike. I was never in the IA, being management, but I spent enough time line-producing on non-union sets to see what the situation was. I assure you that it has become probably twice as bad in recent years. The "third screen" streaming maw is bottomless, the way TV was at first, and any kind of work/life boundary borders on nonexistent.

Don't take it from a bitter old former film maker, take it from those currently subjected to the the 24/7 demands on their time and the total decoupling of work from life. LA is crawling in them. They, surprisingly, all tell the same story that I do. The evidence does support the first impression, which is of an industry currently devoid of meaningful curbs on abuse from highly speculative one-shot LLC production groups that vanish when the lawsuits start.

We are in full solidarity on this. Really, that's all I want to say on the subject. It's not all that unique in the post Ronnie Ray Gun world, just that since it's the entertainment business everyone's interested in it. It's a wider problem, and you know where I'm going to come down on it every time, in every industry, every time labor stands up for its rights.
Thank you again for your wonderful insight, as I have a personal connection to all this.

Is there any chance you would share with us some of the projects you have worked on? You know I am a huge fan of all things Hollywood and stage.
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by ZoWie »

Libertas wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:22 pm Thank you again for your wonderful insight, as I have a personal connection to all this.

Is there any chance you would share with us some of the projects you have worked on? You know I am a huge fan of all things Hollywood and stage.
Never happen. There are reasons beyond simple desire for anonymity, or the fact that most of the memories are bad ones. It relates to the privacy of quite a few other people besides myself. Given the apparent mania for all things Hollywood, and the speed with which these things escalate into the no-longer-funny, that's the way it has to be. Anyone else in This Town will tell you the same. People you have heard of have sworn me to silence on occasion. It's not going to happen.
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by gounion »

Now, funny thing. I DO know who Zowie really is. Well, I did... We worked together IRL on some stuff with Air America Radio and the Air America board that never came to fruition back in 2004 or 2005, when we were both mods on the board, so we knew each other's real-life names and what we did. Zowie IS well-known in the biz... but...

I forgot who he is.

Hey, it's been a LONG LONG TIME!

Hope you forgive me Zowie. Who you are IRL was never that important to me, I've just always considered you one of the Smartest Guys in the Room based upon your posting on the board. And, since we probably won't meet up like I have with several others on the board, it's cool. And I can say this from memory, he's quite a fascinating guy, with a lot of talents. But we can tell that from his posting.

At least you never have to worry about me accidentally letting the cat out of the bag, eh? :lol: :lol: :lol:

But you don't have to go nuts with curiosity, folks. He's not Brad Pitt or anything.
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Post by Libertas »

I am the one asking and I know he isnt an actor, that he was in production. Those would be interesting stories, but I fully respect his vow to not go public on any of it.
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by ZoWie »

gounion wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:40 pm Now, funny thing. I DO know who Zowie really is. Well, I did... We worked together IRL on some stuff with Air America Radio and the Air America board that never came to fruition back in 2004 or 2005, when we were both mods on the board, so we knew each other's real-life names and what we did. Zowie IS well-known in the biz... but...

I forgot who he is.

Hey, it's been a LONG LONG TIME!

Hope you forgive me Zowie. Who you are IRL was never that important to me, I've just always considered you one of the Smartest Guys in the Room based upon your posting on the board. And, since we probably won't meet up like I have with several others on the board, it's cool. And I can say this from memory, he's quite a fascinating guy, with a lot of talents. But we can tell that from his posting.

At least you never have to worry about me accidentally letting the cat out of the bag, eh? :lol: :lol: :lol:

But you don't have to go nuts with curiosity, folks. He's not Brad Pitt or anything.
I'm not Brad Pitt or anything. It's all rather boring, actually. I got my 5 minutes of notoriety in certain tight creative circles, then I got some work on some features that people actually went and saw, then the business changed once too often, when it sold out to the big media conglomerate robber barons. I dropped out to write and make art, both of which I became rather good at.

That's it. I have a Google trail which impresses even myself, since its so in excess of the actual person. As with most Internet speculative mysteries, the truth would bore you to tears. Your pet dog has a more intrinsically interesting bio.

GoU mentioned Air America Radio. Wow. That is from another universe, when there was a device called an AM radio that people actually listened to, especially in the car. AAR was conceived as a left wing beach head there, when it was a land of conservative talkers with infinite budgets. The left doesn't fund its media the way the right does, and so it was therefore doomed from the start. Someday I'll publish an article about it. It's quite a story.

Mostly, it was one of the most mind boggling assemblages of raw talent ever assembled in one single talk radio lineup. Rachel Maddow, Al Franken, Lizz Winstead, Randi Rhodes, on and on. It had a forum like this one. It was kind of AAR's official support board, run by a mysterious figure in a yellow shirt. Somehow, through mutual online acquaintances, I got invited to help moderate it, joining a very inspiring bunch which still communicates on and off. They pass the "good to have a few beers with" test. GoU was/is one of these. I share his commitment to the labor movement and the anti-bullshit movement.

Frankly, AAR was more interesting to me than the movies. It was a New York thing at a time when I was first developing a presence there too, and it was also in a good period for leftie politics, when some serious shit was getting together. It lives on in my heart forever.

Rest its tortured soul.
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by gounion »

ZoWie wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:23 am I'm not Brad Pitt or anything. It's all rather boring, actually. I got my 5 minutes of notoriety in certain tight creative circles, then I got some work on some features that people actually went and saw, then the business changed once too often, when it sold out to the big media conglomerate robber barons. I dropped out to write and make art, both of which I became rather good at.

That's it. I have a Google trail which impresses even myself, since its so in excess of the actual person. As with most Internet speculative mysteries, the truth would bore you to tears. Your pet dog has a more intrinsically interesting bio.
Yeah, you didn't have a name instantly recognizable - but when you looked it up, you'd go, wow, damned cool! That' what I meant by "he's not Brad Pitt." Of course, you might look like Brad Pitt, we never met so I don't know what you look like. I look more like George Clooney. [/wiseass] :lol: :lol: :lol:
GoU mentioned Air America Radio. Wow. That is from another universe, when there was a device called an AM radio that people actually listened to, especially in the car. AAR was conceived as a left wing beach head there, when it was a land of conservative talkers with infinite budgets. The left doesn't fund its media the way the right does, and so it was therefore doomed from the start. Someday I'll publish an article about it. It's quite a story.

Mostly, it was one of the most mind boggling assemblages of raw talent ever assembled in one single talk radio lineup. Rachel Maddow, Al Franken, Lizz Winstead, Randi Rhodes, on and on. It had a forum like this one. It was kind of AAR's official support board, run by a mysterious figure in a yellow shirt. Somehow, through mutual online acquaintances, I got invited to help moderate it, joining a very inspiring bunch which still communicates on and off. They pass the "good to have a few beers with" test. GoU was/is one of these. I share his commitment to the labor movement and the anti-bullshit movement.

Frankly, AAR was more interesting to me than the movies. It was a New York thing at a time when I was first developing a presence there too, and it was also in a good period for leftie politics, when some serious shit was getting together. It lives on in my heart forever.

Rest its tortured soul.
Well, it was unofficial. And the guy that started it is now a Trumper. Truly sad. But for a moment, we were asked by the PR guy from the network to make our board the OFFICIAL board, so that's when we all got together to put a proposal together. We didn't think for a moment they'd accept it, even though we didn't ask for pay. But the guy said that's great, we'll do it! I'll get with my bosses! Then we never heard from him. Then he got fired. Pretty funny, now that I look back at it.

At least that's my memory of it.
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Re: RUST set shooting....

Post by ZoWie »

AAR management was by then the all-time revolving door. They'd plug in new people who'd make a go of meeting payroll and rent on however many signals they'd leased. That number varied from month to month, especially after the check for LA and Chicago bounced and someone at Air America called the station owner a culturally insensitive name. That owner wouldn't agree to pick AAR back up, even after that AAR falloon joined the ranks of the newly unemployed.

LA wound up on a big 50 KW signal, but one that made its real money on sports, so AAR would go away in prime afternoon drive time as often as not. I don't know whether they ever got Chicago back. NYC moved to a small transmitter in NJ which couldn't cover the whole tri-state market. Hell, half the time it couldn't even cover all of Queens. Needless to say, its Arbitrons, which were what really mattered at that time, were even lower and more turbid than the water in the East River, or the Gowanus Canal for that matter.

The right wing noise machine started contacting big agencies and corporate ad buyers, and at one time there was a boycott list being circulated around that industry. The left tries to organize boycotts of advertisers on, say, Fox, by asking consumers not to buy products. The right quietly threatens the relevant corporate exex in the relevant NYC offices with all manner of business consequences if they don't pull their ads. Guess which one is more successful. Bingo.

There was also a covert campaign against AAR, which was uncovered by surveillance of right wing board chatter. I don't/can't divulge sources here. It was real, and depressing to think about.

Sorry I have to make everything sound like classified information, but that's the model I go on after several very bad experiences. Actually, as the left/right radio wars of that era went at that time, AAR/AAP got off lucky. There was another radio network where several people involved in a similar kerfuffle finally armed themselves and went to satellite phones for communication. Internet is that bad. It's partly due to righty wannabes who fancy themselves as some kind of freedom warrior bad asses, and partly due to lefties who feel more important if they, too, treat everything like a war. This stuff can ruin your life and end your career. It's not that I'm paranoid, though I am. It's because the net is a jungle.
"We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation." --Liz Cheney, Republican, 7/21/22
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