Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

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Libertas
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by Libertas »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:59 am Same for the so-called moderates, civility-mongers, and other Malthusian eugenicist populist horseshoes around here. They are cogs in a grinding, destructive wheel.

MLK was right about all of them.
And I hope people out there and in here understand that the ONLY reason rump and MAGA have not imprisoned or shot us all, is so far they dont think they have the numbers (police and military) on their side, that is the ONLY reason. :evil:
I sigh in your general direction.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by bradman »

Libertas wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:30 pm And I hope people out there and in here understand that the ONLY reason rump and MAGA have not imprisoned or shot us all, is so far they dont think they have the numbers (police and military) on their side, that is the ONLY reason. :evil:
Things keep going like they are and they will eventually have no problem getting those numbers.
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. [Will Rogers]
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by carmenjonze »

bradman wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:47 pm Things keep going like they are and they will eventually have no problem getting those numbers.
Time to consider your own choice to be an active cog in that wheel, though I do not ever expect you to do so.

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Bludogdem
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by Bludogdem »

bradman wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:01 pm Burned is going a bit far don'tcha think? We're not there quite yet.

Human nature. Tell a body they can't have something and they want it even more.
Joe’s is a tongue in cheek sarcasm response to a pretty much over the top reaction. One state representative puts out a list of books demanding to know if their in Texas school libraries. And the fareLy rare occurrence of a church book burning, conveyed as if it’s an ongoing normal state of day to day things.

The minutes of the board meeting that I posted show a thoughtful discussion of a complex issue as to whether Maus is appropriate for that grade level. Even the original post says it’s high school material and not for children.

Otherwise it’s all been blown out of proportion.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by Bludogdem »

bradman wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:47 pm Things keep going like they are and they will eventually have no problem getting those numbers.
They may briefly get numbers in knee jerk reactions but nothing will happen.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by Libertas »

Nobody on earth is dumber or more corrupt than trump, he will order violence against all non supporters the instant he knows he has the power to do it.

He has told us he will, he has told us he adores dictators who do EXACTLY that. Voting for any GOP means you want me dead. You want my family dead, you want all non trump supporters dead.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by carmenjonze »

Bludogdem wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:44 pm Joe’s is a tongue in cheek sarcasm response to a pretty much over the top reaction. One state representative puts out a list of books demanding to know if their in Texas school libraries. And the fareLy rare occurrence of a church book burning, conveyed as if it’s an ongoing normal state of day to day things.

The minutes of the board meeting that I posted show a thoughtful discussion of a complex issue as to whether Maus is appropriate for that grade level. Even the original post says it’s high school material and not for children.

Otherwise it’s all been blown out of proportion.
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You'll be voting for the types of politicians who do this in November.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:44 pm Joe’s is a tongue in cheek sarcasm response to a pretty much over the top reaction. One state representative puts out a list of books demanding to know if their in Texas school libraries. And the fareLy rare occurrence of a church book burning, conveyed as if it’s an ongoing normal state of day to day things.

The minutes of the board meeting that I posted show a thoughtful discussion of a complex issue as to whether Maus is appropriate for that grade level. Even the original post says it’s high school material and not for children.

Otherwise it’s all been blown out of proportion.
What bullshit. You're not telling the TRUTH, you're spinning it. Here's something you will never address, you'll just run away. The Texas case? Far different than you falsely characterize it as:

Texas House committee to investigate school districts’ books on race and sexuality
State Rep. Matt Krause, a candidate for state attorney general, asked school superintendents to confirm whether any books on a list of 850 titles are in their libraries and classrooms.

A Republican state lawmaker has launched an investigation into Texas school districts over the type of books they have, particularly if they pertain to race or sexuality or "make students feel discomfort."

State Rep. Matt Krause, in his role as chair of the House Committee on General Investigating, notified the Texas Education Agency that he is "initiating an inquiry into Texas school district content," according to an Oct. 25 letter obtained by The Texas Tribune.

Krause's letter provides a 16-page list of about 850 book titles and asks the districts if they have these books, how many copies they have and how much money they spent on the books.

*snip*

Krause informs districts they must provide the committee with the number of copies they have of each book, on what part of campus those books are located and how much money schools spent on the books, as well as information on any other book that violates House Bill 3979, the so-called “critical race theory law”designed to limit how race-related subjects are taught in public schools. Critical race theory, the idea that racism is embedded in legal systems and not limited to individuals is an academic discipline taught at the university level. But it has become a common phrase used by conservatives to include anything about race taught or discussed in public secondary schools.

The law states a teacher cannot “require or make part of a course” a series of race-related concepts, including the ideas that “one race or sex is inherently superior to another race or sex” or that someone is “inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive” based on their race or sex.

School officials have until Nov. 12 to respond. It is unclear what will happen to the districts that have such books.

The letter did not give a specific reason that Krause was launching the investigation, only that “the committee may initiate inquiries concerning any ‘matter the committee considers necessary for the information of the legislature or for the welfare and protection of state citizens.’”
So this isn't some back-bencher that no one has to pay attention to. The law went into effect last Sept. 1, and they are getting the torches read.

As for Tennessee...

Maus in curriculums across the nation, it's heavily used in classrooms across the nation. Eight grade is a good grade to teach this. The kids are old enough to learn about evil in the world. It's not a complex issue at all. Maus is the kind of book that lets children feel what

The language? The word "damn". The nudity? Naked mouse?

They were looking for excuses, not reasons. Oh, they don't have a problem with kids learning about the Holocaust, as long as they don't get any details. They want it whitewashed.

Books I had in school formed my outlook on life. Maus was a book that changed my outlook on life, even though I read it as an adult. These people don't WANT their children reading such books. Those who screamed to keep Ruby Bridges out of school don't want their children or grandchildren to know what they did.

That's what this is about - this is what you are defending.

And, yes, it's hilarious - and telling - that you make one post supposedly praising the press for their reporting on the Texas incident, but this post you act like it's overblown.

As I said, you've never fooled anyone.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by Libertas »

Hopefully we’ve learned by now that all cons, all of them, are very bad, very bad. Like I’ve said I see no difference between them and armed World War II Nazi soldiers, absolutely no fucking difference at all.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:49 pmAs for Tennessee...

Maus in curriculums across the nation, it's heavily used in classrooms across the nation. Eight grade is a good grade to teach this. The kids are old enough to learn about evil in the world. It's not a complex issue at all. Maus is the kind of book that lets children feel what

The language? The word "damn". The nudity? Naked mouse?

They were looking for excuses, not reasons. Oh, they don't have a problem with kids learning about the Holocaust, as long as they don't get any details. They want it whitewashed.
Libertas wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:03 pm Hopefully we’ve learned by now that all cons, all of them, are very bad, very bad. Like I’ve said I see no difference between them and armed World War II Nazi soldiers, absolutely no fucking difference at all.
If anyone ever wondered how Hannah Arendt's "banality of evil" worked, all anyone has to do is come to RFL and watch these conservatives and so-called moderates.

The Trial of Hannah Arendt - National Endowment for the Humanities
Arendt urged reading the record of the totalitarianism of both the Nazi and Stalinregimes as a cautionary tale about the forces in the “subterranean stream of Western history,” which contributed to the development of what she then called the “truly radical nature of Evil.” The creation of death camps was an “event that should never have been allowed to happen.” More chillingly, she claimed this “event” was neither the product of circumstances beyond human control, nor the inexorable result of prior conditions. Rather, it happened because of the failure of ordinary people to stop it. How did she account for this failure?

During the course of attending Eichmann’s trial, and the more she read in the voluminous transcripts and other trial documents, including Eichmann’s own writing, Arendt hit upon an insight she continued to pursue in later work, including her posthumously published book, The Life of the Mind. The insight was this: It was Eichmann’s “thoughtlessness”—the absence of thinking—that enabled him to commit monstrous acts. Eichmann’s thoughtlessness exemplified what she called “the fearsome, word-and thought-defying banality of evil.”

Nothing placed Arendt in the storm center of public opinion more than her essays about the trial first published in February and March 1963 in the New Yorker, which ultimately became Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil. The year Eichmann was published, the Anti-Defamation League sent out a circular to rabbis to preach against her on Rosh Hashanah. To this, Arendt responded in a letter to her friend, the author Mary McCarthy, “What a risky business to tell the truth. . . .” With close to 300,000 copies now sold, Eichmann in Jerusalem remains Arendt’s most widely circulated and most vilified “public” work. Why?

A haunting meditation on the near total eclipse of morality under the Third Reich, Eichmann is a provocative, often distressing exercise in thinking. Over Arendt’s “report” hangs the shadow of her complicated judgment of the scope of horrors associated with the Holocaust, whose source she summarized in the phrase “the banality of evil.” Among the more disturbing conclusions she reached were those about Eichmann himself: “Despite all the efforts of the prosecution, everybody could see that this man was not a ‘monster,’ but it was difficult indeed not to suspect that he was a clown.” He was not the incarnation of evil, she wrote; he was “thoughtless,” unable to reflect on the fact that what he was doing was wrong. “The longer one listened to him, the more obvious it became that his inability to speak [in anything but clichés] was closely connected with an inability to think, namely, to think from the standpoint of somebody else.”
This characterization of Eichmann got her in a ton of hot water, with nearly everyone. But I get it, especially when I look at a person like Donald Trump and some of these cons & horseshoes around here. They're buffoons who aren't funny.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by Toonces »

carmenjonze wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:20 am Greg Locke is also one of this country's most vicious and obnoxious anti-LGBTQ pastors and antivaxx activists. He is an Independent Fundamental Baptist, which is even worse than the slavery church JoeMemphis belongs to.

Tapdancing Trump surrogate Pastor Mark Burns thinks the country needs more of this trash. This watercarrier for Christian fascism is running for Congress in ya' buddy's state.

MAGA House Candidate Urges Pastor Greg Locke to Run for Office: 'Demon-Killing Machine' - Newsweek
Locke, Burns, et al. aren't so much Christian as they are opportunists. When their grift horse was elected, it was a bonanza and they're still cashing in because the evangelical base is full of, to quote Homer Simpsons, "rubes, so many rubes". They simply don't care about the actual damage it does. There is a lot of "The pastor says..." and no one questions the pastor. Religion is the biggest racket there is.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by Bludogdem »

gounion wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:49 pm What bullshit. You're not telling the TRUTH, you're spinning it. Here's something you will never address, you'll just run away. The Texas case? Far different than you falsely characterize it as:

Texas House committee to investigate school districts’ books on race and sexuality



So this isn't some back-bencher that no one has to pay attention to. The law went into effect last Sept. 1, and they are getting the torches read.

As for Tennessee...

Maus in curriculums across the nation, it's heavily used in classrooms across the nation. Eight grade is a good grade to teach this. The kids are old enough to learn about evil in the world. It's not a complex issue at all. Maus is the kind of book that lets children feel what

The language? The word "damn". The nudity? Naked mouse?

They were looking for excuses, not reasons. Oh, they don't have a problem with kids learning about the Holocaust, as long as they don't get any details. They want it whitewashed.

Books I had in school formed my outlook on life. Maus was a book that changed my outlook on life, even though I read it as an adult. These people don't WANT their children reading such books. Those who screamed to keep Ruby Bridges out of school don't want their children or grandchildren to know what they did.

That's what this is about - this is what you are defending.

And, yes, it's hilarious - and telling - that you make one post supposedly praising the press for their reporting on the Texas incident, but this post you act like it's overblown.

As I said, you've never fooled anyone.

This is the objectionable nudity that is in the current publication of Maus. It’s from earlier work done in th 1970’s. It’s his mother’s suicide. Not a mouse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus#/med ... DID_IT.png

Krause is acting alone and of questionable authority.

“ A response was due Friday, though it’s not clear how many districts complied or even how many received the inquiry.

As chairman of the powerful House General Investigating Committee, Krause can launch an inquiry, but he needs support from other members to issue subpoenas that could compel school officials to comply. The Texas House Democratic Caucus advised members that districts can choose whether to respond.

Dallas and Austin school leaders have already said they aren’t responding to the inquiry.”

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/educati ... worldview/
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by carmenjonze »

Toonces wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:30 am Locke, Burns, et al. aren't so much Christian as they are opportunists. When their grift horse was elected, it was a bonanza and they're still cashing in because the evangelical base is full of, to quote Homer Simpsons, "rubes, so many rubes". They simply don't care about the actual damage it does. There is a lot of "The pastor says..." and no one questions the pastor.
Well..Burns et al are just American conservative Evangelicals. So they're as Christian as any other type of the 2 bil. Christians in the world. It's just that in this country they're the loudest, the most obnoxioius, the most corrupt, and the most violent.

Fundamentalists like Locke can be even worse on social issues...or they can totally shun politics, completely, because they feel they're too good for it.

That was one reason it was a big deal when Jerry Falwell joined up with the Evangelicals in the late 70s-80s. He had been more Fundamentalist-leaning. I do agree that opportunism plays a big part in the brand-name preacher set. That little conversion is a really good example.
Religion is the biggest racket there is.
Maybe, but Rabbi Joshua Heschel and everybody in the SCLC, would disagree with that. I would modify that as conservative religion is the biggest racket there is. Rubes and opportunists is one aspect of "religion," but it is not the only or even most prominent aspect of it.

I can think of one outlier, that of People's Temple/Jim Jones. But liberal Protestantism in the US, or anywhere else that I can think of, simply does not have this problem. Liberal Catholicism doesn't have this problem. Conservative Catholicism does. There are actually liberal Evangelicals and Exvangelicals who left conservative Evangelicalism, but did not leave the church, people like Jay Bakker and the Relevant Mag crowd.

So I don't think the religion = racket formulation works for people like MLK, Ralph Abernathy, Fred Shuttlesworth, all those AME Church bishops who were the force behind Brown v. Board of Ed.,

Image



liberation theology priests and nuns in Central America, or the priests and nuns who joined the UFW

Image


Or for this thread, St. Paul's Episcopal church, which held the webinar on Christianity and antisemitism viewtopic.php?p=14708#p14708.

And this is just Christianity. These religious organizations hosting Art Spiegelman's talk in Chattanooga, Ascension Lutheran Church, Mizpah Congregation of Reform Judaism, Congregation Bnai Zion, also don't fit that mold. viewtopic.php?p=14794#p14794
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by carmenjonze »

Bludogdem wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:13 am This is the objectionable nudity that is in the current publication of Maus. It’s from earlier work done in th 1970’s. It’s his mother’s suicide. Not a mouse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus#/med ... DID_IT.png
There is nothing objectionable about this image, and there is NO rational reason for 10 people to ban it from the curriculum for all 8th graders in the county.
Krause is acting alone and of questionable authority.
Krause is an elected official acting in an official capacity.

Because you are vicious, petty authoritarians to your core, you guys running around crying cancel culture have an arsenal of rationalizations for the conservatives who are literally trying to cancel culture.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by Libertas »

carmenjonze wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:38 am There is nothing objectionable about this image, and there is NO rational reason for 10 people to ban it from the curriculum for all 8th graders in the county.



Krause is an elected official acting in an official capacity.

Because you are vicious, petty authoritarians to your core, you guys running around crying cancel culture have an arsenal of rationalizations for the conservatives who are literally trying to cancel culture.
And all of them, INCLUDING YOU FUCKS HERE, will stand by and do and say NOTHING when trump or whoever replaces him starts the roundup of non-supporters.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by gounion »

Bludogdem wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:13 am This is the objectionable nudity that is in the current publication of Maus. It’s from earlier work done in th 1970’s. It’s his mother’s suicide. Not a mouse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus#/med ... DID_IT.png
Oh? Do YOU call that nudity objectionable? Yes or no? Would a reasonable person see this as a reason to ban the book? Yes or no?

I guess if they don't want the children seeing THAT, they would find this objectionable, too, wouldn't they?
Image

They want to "teach" a whitewashed holocaust, without mentioning the torture, the gas chambers and mass graves.

It's astonishing the things you defend.
Krause is acting alone and of questionable authority.

“ A response was due Friday, though it’s not clear how many districts complied or even how many received the inquiry.

As chairman of the powerful House General Investigating Committee, Krause can launch an inquiry, but he needs support from other members to issue subpoenas that could compel school officials to comply. The Texas House Democratic Caucus advised members that districts can choose whether to respond.

Dallas and Austin school leaders have already said they aren’t responding to the inquiry.”

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/educati ... worldview/
Not questionable at all. He's the Chairman of the House Investigating Committee, and the GOP passed a law that went into effect last September. The GOP overwhelmingly controls the state government.

Yes, he needs his committee to issue subpoenas. But you don't think they'll have his back in issuing subpoenas to enforce their new law? In an election year in Texas? When he's running for higher office?

Hell yeah they'll issue subpoenas and they'll start banning these books and probably going after the librarians that fight them.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:55 am Oh? Do YOU call that nudity objectionable? Yes or no? Would a reasonable person see this as a reason to ban the book? Yes or no?

I guess if they don't want the children seeing THAT, they would find this objectionable, too, wouldn't they?
[img]https:// collections.ushmm.org/iiif-b/assets/729309[/img]
These are people's relatives.

Hell yeah they'll issue subpoenas and they'll start banning these books and probably going after the librarians that fight them.
Haha I hope this stupid little fascist tries it. Librarians don't back down from ANYBODY.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by ProfX »

David Corn has also read the minutes of the school board meeting.

The Inside Story of the Banning of “Maus.” It’s Dumber Than You Think.
I read the minutes of the McMinn County, Tennessee, school board so you don’t have to.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... you-think/

I continue to agree with him. This decision was dumb. I repeat: the TN state board had already decided this text was appropriate for those age levels.

So fine, it's still oblique human nudity instead of a mouse. BFD. It's still Spiegelan's mother about to commit suicide in a bathtub, barely visible in the frame.

The swear words they objected to include "bitch" and "damn". Sheesh, I hope these folks don't look at the TikTok's these 8th graders are watching.
"Don't believe every quote attributed to people on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln :D
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by carmenjonze »

I'm working at this time, otherwise, i'd go. Maybe someone else can make it.

A Conversation with Art Spiegelman, Author of Maus, Webinar Registration - Jewish Federation of Chattanooga
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by Libertas »

Sadly, banning books and censorship will be the least of our worries if someone doesnt do something and now.

Violence is all cons understand. The ONLY thing preventing ALL of them from shooting us on site if we look at them wrong is they still fear the law, those days may be near to being over. Let's hope not.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by carmenjonze »

ProfX wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:00 am David Corn has also read the minutes of the school board meeting.

The Inside Story of the Banning of “Maus.” It’s Dumber Than You Think.
I read the minutes of the McMinn County, Tennessee, school board so you don’t have to.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... you-think/

I continue to agree with him. This decision was dumb. I repeat: the TN state board had already decided this text was appropriate for those age levels.

So fine, it's still oblique human nudity instead of a mouse. BFD. It's still Spiegelan's mother about to commit suicide in a bathtub, barely visible in the frame.

The swear words they objected to include "bitch" and "damn". Sheesh, I hope these folks don't look at the TikTok's these 8th graders are watching.
...or making.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by Libertas »

carmenjonze wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:46 am ...or making.
Tik Tok and all social media will be supervised by a MAGA person who is assigned to that, their maturity level will be of a 12 yr old and that will only be the beginning.

Do you STUPID FUCK cons know what life is like in NK or Russia? Why do you so BADLY want Putin and trump to do that here?

Dont answer, fuck you, I dont care what you think.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by marindem01 »

Bludogdem wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:13 amThis is the objectionable nudity that is in the current publication of Maus.
What exactly is offensive abut the picture in question. It NOT sexualized at all. It is drawing of woman who killed herself. So the frack what if you can see a nipple or her breasts, she is dead. Get over it Cons.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by carmenjonze »

marindem01 wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:18 pm What exactly is offensive abut the picture in question. It NOT sexualized at all. It is drawing of woman who killed herself. So the frack what if you can see a nipple or her breasts, she is dead. Get over it Cons.
The conservative perverts banning this book because of this image are apparently turned on by these images, and think 13 year olds will be, too.

And OTOH, banning books is a part of the Holocaust/Third Reich history Maus is even talking about.

This image has nothing whatsoever to do with why this book is being taken out of the curriculum. None.
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Re: Tennessee County bans prize-wining "Maus"

Post by Libertas »

carmenjonze wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:47 pm The conservative perverts banning this book because of this image are apparently turned on by these images, and think 13 year olds will be, too.

And OTOH, banning books is a part of the Holocaust/Third Reich history Maus is even talking about.

This image has nothing whatsoever to do with why this book is being taken out of the curriculum. None.
Exactly...I have for years described cons as children, not childlike but childish. (A line I stole from one of the greatest episodes of one of the greatest TV shows of all time, M*A*S*H
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