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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:28 pm 
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:problem: why would it?



Doesn’t matter; their actions were discriminatory.

And neither have you,yet you’re playing the overdefensive card c



Lol I’m basing my opinion on several news stories from credible news organizations. You otoh are just reacting to some posts on a message board without having read.



Sure, it’s all opinion when it’s not you or your kid with the demand to show papers please.

I wonder if you even read the mother’s FB post? It’s referenced in most of the articles on this story.

I read what you included in your post. I am not nor do I care to be on FB. I have read many stories that were "credible" written by "credible" journalists that later turned out to be inaccurate or did not contain enough relevant data to make a fully informed decision. So I don't hang my hat on what I read in facebook or in the press. You are mostly just reading someone else's biased opinion. If I am the victim or the accused, I want someone to make decisions based on facts and not speculation.

If I treat everyone the same regardless of race, religion, nationality, gender, sexual preference etc, am I discriminating? If I don't know what is an acceptable ID, am I guilty of discrimination or just ignorance. Not every bad decision is rooted in discrimination. In the CVS case it sounds more like ignorance. What remedy would you like to see in the CVS case? What do you think is just and fair?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:31 pm 
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I read what you included in your post.


I've made several posts in this thread so I'm not sure which one you're talking about?

Quote:
I am not nor do I care to be on FB.


You don't have to be on FB to read the key FB post reported on. It's a public post.

Quote:
I have read many stories that were "credible" written by "credible" journalists that later turned out to be inaccurate or did not contain enough relevant data to make a fully informed decision. So I don't hang my hat on what I read in facebook or in the press. You are mostly just reading someone else's biased opinion. If I am the victim or the accused, I want someone to make decisions based on facts and not speculation.

:lol:

:? Um, last I checked, nobody here is making any formal decisions about this story, nor is anyone purporting to. Let's also be clear that "accused" is one of those melodramatic words. The person hasn't been "accused" of anything or charged with anything.

So anyway, you haven’t read about this story, you’ve only read my post, and so are indeed simply responding to what I’ve posted.

But your complaint is that I’m just going off what I read on the internet. Okay....

Quote:
If I treat everyone the same regardless of race, religion, nationality, gender, sexual preference etc, am I discriminating? If I don't know what is an acceptable ID, am I guilty of discrimination or just ignorance. Not every bad decision is rooted in discrimination.


Never said anything about “every bad decision,” I'm talking about THIS decision to challenge THIS guy's immigration status over some Mucinex, what are you so defensive about? Ah, I see, your own personal anxieties. Maybe you, personally, did not know until now that a PR ID is a citizen's ID and that's what makes you defensive of this decision to challenge José's immigration status? Dunno, you tell me..

Quote:
In the CVS case it sounds more like ignorance. What remedy would you like to see in the CVS case? What do you think is just and fair?


By the time the story became a news story, the issue had already been addressed, and it took exposure on Facebook and taking the local CVS to the national to get it done. If you’d read about it before getting pointlessly defensive...well, you didn’t so....

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:21 am 
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I've made several posts in this thread so I'm not sure which one you're talking about?



You don't have to be on FB to read the key FB post reported on. It's a public post.


:lol:

:? Um, last I checked, nobody here is making any formal decisions about this story, nor is anyone purporting to. Let's also be clear that "accused" is one of those melodramatic words. The person hasn't been "accused" of anything or charged with anything.

So anyway, you haven’t read about this story, you’ve only read my post, and so are indeed simply responding to what I’ve posted.

But your complaint is that I’m just going off what I read on the internet. Okay....



Never said anything about “every bad decision,” I'm talking about THIS decision to challenge THIS guy's immigration status over some Mucinex, what are you so defensive about? Ah, I see, your own personal anxieties. Maybe you, personally, did not know until now that a PR ID is a citizen's ID and that's what makes you defensive of this decision to challenge José's immigration status? Dunno, you tell me..



By the time the story became a news story, the issue had already been addressed, and it took exposure on Facebook and taking the local CVS to the national to get it done. If you’d read about it before getting pointlessly defensive...well, you didn’t so....


Last I checked I wasn't defending anything much less over defending something. Its a discussion. This is a discussion board. I simply have a different point of view. It seems that anyone who challenges your point of view is "over defensive" or "pointless". Perhaps it is you who needs to deal with your anxiety issues? It seems to me you are no more capable of dealing with someone who disagrees with your point of view than Ike. You just use different language to do it.

So I posed a simple question to you. What would you have done in this case were you in charge of CVS? What would have been your remedy? Do you have one? What is it you would want to see happen?

This gets down to what is and is not discrimination and what should we do about it. That is the whole issue here after all. The point I made earlier that not all bad decisions are rooted in discrimination was mine. I never attributed it to you. No need for you to get "over defensive" about it.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:37 am 
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It seems that anyone who challenges your point of view is "over defensive" or "pointless". Perhaps it is you who needs to deal with your anxiety issues? It seems to me you are no more capable of dealing with someone who disagrees with your point of view than Ike. You just use different language to do it.


:lol:

Congratualtions, Joe Memphis!

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

Quote:
tu quoque
You avoided having to engage with criticism by turning it back on the accuser - you answered criticism with criticism.

Pronounced too-kwo-kwee. Literally translating as 'you too' this fallacy is also known as the appeal to hypocrisy. It is commonly employed as an effective red herring because it takes the heat off someone having to defend their argument, and instead shifts the focus back on to the person making the criticism.

Example: Nicole identified that Hannah had committed a logical fallacy, but instead of addressing the substance of her claim, Hannah accused Nicole of committing a fallacy earlier on in the conversation.


All you did was parrot what was in my post. Nice try, tho, deflecting about some irrelevant insult about Ike from trying to have a conversation on a story you didn't even educate yourself about before commenting. :problem:

Quote:
So I posed a simple question to you. What would you have done in this case were you in charge of CVS? What would have been your remedy? Do you have one? What is it you would want to see happen?

This gets down to what is and is not discrimination and what should we do about it. That is the whole issue here after all. The point I made earlier that not all bad decisions are rooted in discrimination was mine. I never attributed it to you. No need for you to get "over defensive" about it.


Inform yourself about the topic first, instead of forming your precious opinion from "my post" (you never specified which one you're talking about.)

Can't have have an informed conversation with an uninformed person. Waste of time.

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:38 am 
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We don't know if the employee and/or manager were acting in a discriminatory manner because, from carmen's links, they don't address it. What they were doing was not following CVS' policy. Until there is evidence they were discriminating against Payano it appears this is a case in which the employee and manager were wrong concerning CVS' policy.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:19 am 
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We don't know if the employee and/or manager were acting in a discriminatory manner because, from carmen's links, they don't address it. What they were doing was not following CVS' policy. Until there is evidence they were discriminating against Payano it appears this is a case in which the employee and manager were wrong concerning CVS' policy.


It's Guzman Payano, but from the USA Today link

Quote:
He said he rang up the items in a self-scan checkout and waited for a store clerk when the machine’s screen noted that an ID check was required for the cold medicine. When he showed his ID – one that met the Real ID criteria – a clerk told him it wasn’t enough.

“She said I needed a visa,” Guzman Payano said. “I tried to explain that Puerto Rico was part of the United States. I didn’t need a visa or anything. She just said the same thing three times.”


From WTHR

Quote:
Payano Burgos [the mother] called to speak with a shift supervisor at the store.​​

"She proceeded to explain that she was just following CVS policy, and that CVS only accepts identification from the United States, Canada or Mexico. I then explained that Puerto Rico is a territory of the United States, and she then clarified that the policy specifically requires that employees do not accept driver's licenses from Puerto Rico!"​​

Guzman Payano says it took nine days for someone from CVS to contact him about his complaint.​​


From NYT

Quote:
José A. Guzmán-Payano, a junior at Purdue University, went to a store near his dorm in West Lafayette, Ind., on Oct. 25 to buy Mucinex for a cold, his mother wrote on Facebook. When an employee at the checkout saw his Puerto Rican driver’s license, she asked him for a visa, and “started confronting him about his immigration status,” Arlene Payano Burgos wrote in a post that had been shared more than 10,000 times.

Mr. Guzmán-Payano had to explain that, in fact, Puerto Ricans are American citizens. But the employee still would not accept the license or a United States passport that he showed her. A manager also refused to sell him the medicine.


Lol wait until you as a citizen are "mistaken" for a foreigner, demanded to show a visa, have your immigration status put in question to get some Mucinex, and are then turned away from an every day service even when you can prove you're a citizen. Or maybe you guys think it can't happen to you, dunno..what I do know is that you all would hit the roof.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:43 am 
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:lol:

Congratualtions, Joe Memphis!

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque



All you did was parrot what was in my post. Nice try, tho, deflecting about some irrelevant insult about Ike from trying to have a conversation on a story you didn't even educate yourself about before commenting. :problem:



Inform yourself about the topic first, instead of forming your precious opinion from "my post" (you never specified which one you're talking about.)

Can't have have an informed conversation with an uninformed person. Waste of time.


Congratulations Carmen - You are the queen of deflection. All Number6 did was to simply point out that we don't have enough information to call this discrimination. I happen to agree. It's your responsibility to support your point of view. Not mine and not Number6. I don't need to do tons of research to read what you posted and come to a conclusion that I don't believe you presented enough evidence to support your argument. If that bothers you or if you feel a discussion on this is a waste of your time then simply ignore me. Move on to the next post. It makes no difference to me.

I repeat, you are no more capable of having a discussion with someone who disagrees with your point of view than Ike. You just don't cuss as much about it.

We do agree on one thing. A discussion with you is pointless. So I will take my own advice and refrain from wasting anymore time on you.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:52 pm 
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Congratulations Carmen -


Nah, you’re just in mynah bird mode. Come talk to me when you’re ready for an informed conversation on this topic.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:56 pm 
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Congratulations Carmen -


Nah, you’re just in mynah bird mode. Come talk to me when you’re ready for an informed conversation on this topic.


I really love you guys.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:00 pm 
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Nah, you’re just in mynah bird mode. Come talk to me when you’re ready for an informed conversation on this topic.


I admire you and prof for attempting to talk to righty...

All I can think of when I see his name or the other ones here is how their actions and inaction's are leading directly to the end of my country and possibly the human race.

Fuck them real hard...i dont CARE if they dont support rump, they support GOP and GOP are terrorists ...I wish they would watch a movie like "Vice" and explain why that is OK, for instance.

Fuck em...they dont deserve one second of your time!

You are talking to someone who votes for politicians who want to IMPRISON OR EXECUTE Women and doctors for providing reproductive healthcare

T E R R O R I S T S

plain and simple


ps

Anyone who is not rich who identifies as a "conservative" is saying "I want the rich to have everything including power over me and I dont know why"

:cry:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:18 pm 
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I admire you and prof for attempting to talk to righty...

All I can think of when I see his name or the other ones here is how their actions and inaction's are leading directly to the end of my country and possibly the human race.

Fuck them real hard...i dont CARE if they dont support rump, they support GOP and GOP are terrorists ...I wish they would watch a movie like "Vice" and explain why that is OK, for instance.

Fuck em...they dont deserve one second of your time!

You are talking to someone who votes for politicians who want to IMPRISON OR EXECUTE Women and doctors for providing reproductive healthcare

T E R R O R I S T S

plain and simple


ps

Anyone who is not rich who identifies as a "conservative" is saying "I want the rich to have everything including power over me and I dont know why"

:cry:


Yes you’re right. Waste of time. Conservatives are confederates.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:09 pm 
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Yes you’re right. Waste of time. Conservatives are confederates.




Image

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:29 am 
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Anyone who is not rich who identifies as a "conservative" is saying "I want the rich to have everything including power over me and I dont know why"

:cry:


Quitcher blubbering and explain what you have against people who are financially successful and independently comfortable. Outside of rank envy, eh? Are you a member of an oppressed minority? Are you a victim of some sort of institutional bigotry? There are wealthy and poor asshole conservatives. There are wealthy and poor asshole liberals.

But if you don't have two nickles rubbing together in your pants pocket, all you have to do to figure out who's responsible is standing right in front of you in the mirror. You can spew blame all day long, at rich people, insurance companies, big pharma, corporatists, Republicans, conservatives, mom and dad, your childhood abusers (if you're unlucky enough to have been stuck with those) and anybody else on your list.

But we're not children anymore Libby. Children can be neglected, abused and abandoned. When we reach adulthood we got nobody to blame but ourselves.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:14 pm 
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Now Ike is attacking anything a liberal says just because he has been so badly beaten up by everyone here he has no other alternative.

Fortunately he knows nothing about me, clearly from this comment, and I wanna keep it that way.


LOL

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:37 pm 
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Let's lighten things up:

"Biden Leads All Democrats By 50 Points, According To New Rotary Phone Poll"

:D

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Let's lighten things up:

"Biden Leads All Democrats By 50 Points, According To New Rotary Phone Poll"

:D



LOL I guess Ellen had some youngun on her show and asked them to try and look up a business in the yellow pages and to make a call with a rotary phone and they couldnt do either

on the phone i think the person kept dialing and didnt pick up the receiver or something

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:42 pm 
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LOL I guess Ellen had some youngun on her show and asked them to try and look up a business in the yellow pages and to make a call with a rotary phone and they couldnt do either

on the phone i think the person kept dialing and didnt pick up the receiver or something

Times change just as technology does. How many Millennials know how to operate a film SLR camera? They're used to taking pictures with their phone so maybe they could figure out how to take a picture with a 110 or 135 camera or a Polaroid Land Camera but a SLR is too complicated for them. I remember learning to drive a stick shift as well as a column shifter and most millennials know only automatic shifting. This really doesn't matter because the technology we used decades ago has been supplanted by something better. It doesn't mean Boomers are smarter or dumber than millennials or vice versa but it has to do with familiarity with technology.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:47 pm 
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Quitcher blubbering and ...


Image

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:48 pm 
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Now Ike is attacking anything a liberal says just because he has been so badly beaten up by everyone here he has no other alternative.

Fortunately he knows nothing about me, clearly from this comment, and I wanna keep it that way.


LOL


Troll is trolling.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:52 pm 
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Let's lighten things up:

"Biden Leads All Democrats By 50 Points, According To New Rotary Phone Poll"

:D


They didn't call during "The Andy Griffith Show" did they?

I hate when that shit happens.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:26 pm 
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Let's lighten things up:

"Biden Leads All Democrats By 50 Points, According To New Rotary Phone Poll"

:D


So, one of the weird things about the Watchmen universe is that for some odd reason in their alt-history, nobody's invented cell phones. The cops talk to HQ over walky-talky radios. But another funky retro thing - to get information out to people on the force, they still use pagers!

I'm trying to remember which I've seen more recently ... pagers or rotary phones. :D

Oh ... and for some bizarre reason, though, they have phone booths that can call Mars ... but the phone call is one way. :mrgreen: (There's only one glowing blue guy on the planet who could answer, but he doesn't.)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:39 pm 
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So, one of the weird things about the Watchmen universe is that for some odd reason in their alt-history, nobody's invented cell phones. The cops talk to HQ over walky-talky radios. But another funky retro thing - to get information out to people on the force, they still use pagers!

I'm trying to remember which I've seen more recently ... pagers or rotary phones. :D

Oh ... and for some bizarre reason, though, they have phone booths that can call Mars ... but the phone call is one way. :mrgreen: (There's only one glowing blue guy on the planet who could answer, but he doesn't.)


Noooo no spoilers please! :)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:49 pm 
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Again, I kinda view those things as incidentals ... not actual plot details.

Trust me, I know the back-mythos of the show, and as of episode 3, there are still things not making sense to me about some familiar characters ... but Lindelof is apparently a master of that dark art of keeping you guessing, on Lost, etc. :mrgreen:

I'll only say that Jeremy Irons is who everybody thought he was. Or is he? :roll: :D

I'm still not EXACTLY sure who Lou Gossett Jr. is. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:03 pm 
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Again, I kinda view those things as incidentals ... not actual plot details.

Trust me, I know the back-mythos of the show, and as of episode 3, there are still things not making sense to me about some familiar characters ... but Lindelof is apparently a master of that dark art of keeping you guessing, on Lost, etc. :mrgreen:

I'll only say that Jeremy Irons is who everybody thought he was. Or is he? :roll: :D

I'm still not EXACTLY sure who Lou Gossett Jr. is. :mrgreen:


Ha, ok.

I am going to catch up on it probably in December.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:15 pm 
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Times change just as technology does. How many Millennials know how to operate a film SLR camera? They're used to taking pictures with their phone so maybe they could figure out how to take a picture with a 110 or 135 camera or a Polaroid Land Camera but a SLR is too complicated for them. I remember learning to drive a stick shift as well as a column shifter and most millennials know only automatic shifting. This really doesn't matter because the technology we used decades ago has been supplanted by something better. It doesn't mean Boomers are smarter or dumber than millennials or vice versa but it has to do with familiarity with technology.


I would only add that people are still caught up in this idea that "millenials" are college freshmen who are somehow "digital natives" (yes Number 6 I know you didn't say this..this is a general observation and agreement with what you're saying.) Millenials now have mortgages, aging parents they're taking care of, kids in high school looking at college, have tenure at universities, and are well into being old enough to be eligible to be POTUS. Plus, the premise of the concept is not true; there is no such thing as a "digital native" any more than so-called GenX and older are rotary-phone natives.

It's funny - I was in the store yesterday and the song playing was Sam Cooke's "What A Wonderful World," with the line, "Don't know what a slide rule is for..." Lol well who the heck does. Where are all the slide-rule natives? Lol Gen X definitely doesn't, and our parents made fun of us for it like people are laughing at folks who don't know how to use a rotary phone. Everyone has to learn the technology of the era in which they come of age, and basically everyone does.

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