Mormon child molestation hotline.

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carmenjonze
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:15 am The only thing you are going to see in the news is the bad apples.
This is nonsense. There are plenty of stories about decent religious people.

None of them are conservative people, though.

There's an entire thread called Amen Corner dedicated to such stories. People like you also ignore them because they give you cognitive dissonance.
Because the millions of people whose life has been turned around by religion is not news and we will never hear about.
Again, this is not true, at all. There are news stories about it.

"Religion" sure did turn around white-conservative repression in the 1960s, innit. If you're in doubt, ask all those Black pastors who headed up Civil Rights organizations.

Well, the ones not picked off by conservative whites.

This work still continues today.
Last edited by carmenjonze on Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:15 am The fact is you hate religion especially christianity.
Why don't you hate the repressive aspects of religion, like Mormon child molestation?

Or Catholic church child molestation?

And the people who cover it up?

These are extremely hateful things, yet you pretend -- as they do -- that there's nothing to see here.

Just like you do with the Tulsa Race Massacre and Jan. 6th. Same mentality, same MO.
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ProfX
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

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GoU, she was responding to glenn, not you.
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by gounion »

ProfX wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:50 am GoU, she was responding to glenn, not you.
Deleted and BIG apologies. I'm sorry, Carmen.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:57 am Deleted and BIG apologies. I'm sorry, Carmen.
Whatever it was, I didn't even see it, NW.
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gounion
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by gounion »

You know what bugs me about this? How Glenn is defending this, and it's just indefensible.

Now, the right wants to say how unions are horrible and evil, but I worked over 20 years for a union, working with the lawyers all the time, and never ONCE did they EVER tell me or anyone I know to hide criminal activity, or to break the law. NEVER.

And Churches seem to do this all the time, and Glenn is fine with it.
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by Glennfs »

gounion wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:28 am You know what bugs me about this? How Glenn is defending this, and it's just indefensible.

Now, the right wants to say how unions are horrible and evil, but I worked over 20 years for a union, working with the lawyers all the time, and never ONCE did they EVER tell me or anyone I know to hide criminal activity, or to break the law. NEVER.

And Churches seem to do this all the time, and Glenn is fine with it.
No it doesn't happen all the time. We hear about it when it happens.
Again, there are 400,000 churches in the country. If they average 200 members each that is 80 million people. Of course there are going to be bad people in a group that larger.
But for the bad there are far more who have turned around there lives thanks to the church.
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:33 am No it doesn't happen all the time. We hear about it when it happens.
Again, there are 400,000 churches in the country. If they average 200 members each that is 80 million people. Of course there are going to be bad people in a group that larger.
But for the bad there are far more who have turned around there lives thanks to the church.
Actually, it DOES happen all the time. These are thousands of cases, add to that the recent revelations about the Southern Baptists, and the thousands upon thousands from the Catholic Church worldwide.

So, no big deal, what you are saying is it's fine to let it continue. As long as it's not YOUR kids, right?
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carmenjonze
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:28 am You know what bugs me about this? How Glenn is defending this, and it's just indefensible.

Now, the right wants to say how unions are horrible and evil, but I worked over 20 years for a union, working with the lawyers all the time, and never ONCE did they EVER tell me or anyone I know to hide criminal activity, or to break the law. NEVER.

And Churches seem to do this all the time, and Glenn is fine with it.
The RCC and Mormons are notorious for it.

So is the Slavery Baptist Convention/SBC.

These three organizations are also the first in line to back anti-LGBTQ laws because whuddubbout the children. :roll:

They have a lot to hide. It's why they talk so loud.
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

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gounion wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:35 am Actually, it DOES happen all the time. These are thousands of cases, add to that the recent revelations about the Southern Baptists, and the thousands upon thousands from the Catholic Church worldwide.

So, no big deal, what you are saying is it's fine to let it continue. As long as it's not YOUR kids, right?
Nobody is saying that it is fine there you go making shit up....again.
What I am saying that there has been far more good done by ourv400 000 churches than bad
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:37 am Nobody is saying that it is fine there you go making shit up....again.
What I am saying that there has been far more good done by ourv400 000 churches than bad
You're the one saying there's nothing wrong, nothing needs to change.

How many thousand molested children would be too many?
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carmenjonze
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:33 am No it doesn't happen all the time. We hear about it when it happens.
Again, there are 400,000 churches in the country.
Source, this number, please.

I do not doubt that there are that many. The question is where do you get your information about it.
If they average 200 members each that is 80 million people.
More made-up stats.
Of course there are going to be bad people in a group that larger.
But
No buts.

Even one case is one too many. Stop trying to minimize and dismiss clergy and church sexual abuse.

You are playing the part of the Vatican employees who move predator priests around to different dioceses, and the people of the Southern Baptist Convention who just got caught covering up their denominations' sex abuse cases for decades.

Report: Top Southern Baptists stonewalled sex abuse victims - AP

Does it suprise you that the SBC was also in the nooz freaking TF out about "critical race theory" with the rest of the stupid conservative whites, all while this news was hitting the stands? It shouldn't.
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carmenjonze
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:37 am ourv400 000 churches
Source this number, please.
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by Glennfs »

carmenjonze wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:43 am Source this number, please.
https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/new ... /42282593/

380,000
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:47 am https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/new ... /42282593/

380,000
Heck, the Catholic Church abused nearly that many in France alone. 330,000.

I'm just wondering how many children can be molested before it's a problem, Glenn?
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carmenjonze
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:47 am https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/new ... /42282593/

380,000
So it's NOT 400,000, and you're padding the numbers.

Fine enough, that's to be expected from a dishonest conservative.

But you should really be careful who and what you go around quoting.

Your link, for starters, is how devastating COVID could be for churches. The churches in the US that were the loudest sqwawkers against taking measures against COVID were -- wait for it --- white Evangelicals - Stat News. Mainline Protestants, Catholics, and Historically-Black denominations don't have this problem.

This is anecdotal, but I know churches in this city that STILL have extremely strict protocols for their Sunday services, stricter than the city's itself and the state of California's, itself.

That said, this 380,000 figure that you tried to bump up to 400,000 is from the National Congregational Study, which is done by Hartford Seminary, now known as Hartford International University for Religion and Peace. You may be interested to know that Hartford Seminary has long promoted Christian-Muslim dialog, and according to Wikipedia, is "the only accredited Islamic chaplaincy program" (though I'm not exactly what kind of accreditation they're talking about.)

This is the study, or part of it - http://hirr.hartsem.edu/research/fastfa ... facts.html
Q: How many religious congregations are there in the United States?

A: There is no official directory for all the congregations in the country, so sociologists of religion have to rely on statistical estimates extrapolated from surveys. These are often disputed, and to complicate matters, thousands of new churches open each year, while thousands of others close. Hartford Institute estimates there are roughly 350,000 religious congregations in the United States. This estimate relies on the RCMS 2010 religious congregations census. Of those, about 314,000 are Protestant and other Christian churches, and 24,000 are Catholic and Orthodox churches. Non-Christian religious congregations * are estimated at about 12,000.

Want to know more? Visit the Religious Congregations Membership Study (RCMS) - the 2010 US Religion Census report (PDF format) for more information. An alternative discussion of how to come up with a count of congregations in the U.S. can be found in Kirk Hadaway’s and Penny Marler’s article in the Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion, Volume 44, Number 3, September 2005, pp. 307-322.
* I.e., "not churches".

So, how big is a "church"? Does a "chruch" include Apostle Sue and her congregation, which happens to be her husband and 2 stepkids? Or is a "church" the converted storefront in the Latino part of town, with the Nicaraguan pastor and 10 people from outside Managua?

Religion in America is a lot more complex than you guys wish to acknowledge.
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ProfX
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by ProfX »

So, if I can make an observation, this kind of story has also come up in non-religious contexts.

They call him (the Rep.) "Gym" Jordan because he had been covering up for abuse of people on his wrestling team when he was the coach at Ohio State. Now, to be clear, no one is saying he facilitated or participated. But when several wrestlers on his team told him the team doctor was committing abuse, he covered it up and hushed up the allegations.

There is this problem in social institutions of all kinds where when someone within the group is accused of wrongdoing, people rally around that person and defend them instinctually. Also they want to preserve the "reputation" of their institution. As far as human tribal instincts go, this is one of our worst. It's the same thing when cops cover for bad corrupt cops in their midst because of back the blue/thin blue line/etc. We try to protect our own, even when we know that what folks in our midst did was wrong.

Oh and you can see this in politics, too. :D

It's not a question of whether churches are good or bad, or college wrestling teams are good or bad, or a political party as a whole is good or bad.

What I would say, though, is we need to overcome this human instinct to protect members of the tribe, even when they've done things that are wrong. You can also see this in families. The Unabomber was actually turned in by his brother, who when he saw the manifesto actually recognizes some distinct "mannerisms" in the manifesto's writing style. But many families will also protect their own from the law when they've done wrong and help protect them from the law, too. That after all is the code of the Cosa Nostra.

It's just not a good human trait. :|
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carmenjonze
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by carmenjonze »

Glennfs wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:33 am No it doesn't happen all the time.
How do you know?
We hear about it when it happens.
When men like you hear about it, first thing out of your mouth is, but what was she wearing.
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The way to right wrongs is to
Shine the light of truth on them.

~ Ida B. Wells
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carmenjonze
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Re: Mormon child molestation hotline.

Post by carmenjonze »

gounion wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:54 am Heck, the Catholic Church abused nearly that many in France alone. 330,000.

I'm just wondering how many children can be molested before it's a problem, Glenn?
There is no upper limit.
________________________________

The way to right wrongs is to
Shine the light of truth on them.

~ Ida B. Wells
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