Stepping Down As An Elected Official

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Ted
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Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by Ted »

I am almost halfway through year 16 as a school board member and do not plan to seek reelection when my term to an end.in the middle of 2022. The experience has been great and I would recommend serving to anyone wanting to give something back to their community.

The most rewarding part of the job included signing diplomas and presenting them to two of our kids at graduation. The worst parts of the job provided practical experience and, as my parents would say, built character.

It's time to step aside and let someone else share their knowledge, skills, and abilities.
gounion
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by gounion »

Ted wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:34 pm I am almost halfway through year 16 as a school board member and do not plan to seek reelection when my term to an end.in the middle of 2022. The experience has been great and I would recommend serving to anyone wanting to give something back to their community.

The most rewarding part of the job included signing diplomas and presenting them to two of our kids at graduation. The worst parts of the job provided practical experience and, as my parents would say, built character.

It's time to step aside and let someone else share their knowledge, skills, and abilities.
Good for you! Now you can run for higher office! :D :D :D :D

Hey, don't throw things at me! I'm just kidding!
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Number6
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by Number6 »

Ted wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:34 pm I am almost halfway through year 16 as a school board member and do not plan to seek reelection when my term to an end.in the middle of 2022. The experience has been great and I would recommend serving to anyone wanting to give something back to their community.

The most rewarding part of the job included signing diplomas and presenting them to two of our kids at graduation. The worst parts of the job provided practical experience and, as my parents would say, built character.

It's time to step aside and let someone else share their knowledge, skills, and abilities.
During your tenure on the school board, have you experienced any of the crap that’s been going on with school boards across the country?
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sam lefthand
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by sam lefthand »

They're going to miss you Ted.

:)
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Ted
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by Ted »

Number6 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:21 pm During your tenure on the school board, have you experienced any of the crap that’s been going on with school boards across the country?
I've had the joy of experiencing an angry torch-bearing mob several times. Some prior to covid and some during.

As the board chair I always allowed people to express their opinions as long as they remained civil and did not resort to personal attacks. We had quite a few people express their disagreements with our covid policies but nobody was unreasonable and everyone had the opportunity to be heard.

I cannot say the same for some of our neighboring districts. Some of their meetings were much more newsworthy.
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Ted
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by Ted »

Tonight was my last meeting as a school board member.

The meeting was called to order, we held a budget hearing, heard public comments, then adjourned as the old board. I left the table, said goodbye to everyone, went home, and mowed the lawn. Now, I am on the back deck listening to a robin sing and watching the sun set while my dog snoozes at my feet.

It feels good to be done.
Bludogdem
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by Bludogdem »

Ted wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:27 pm Tonight was my last meeting as a school board member.

The meeting was called to order, we held a budget hearing, heard public comments, then adjourned as the old board. I left the table, said goodbye to everyone, went home, and mowed the lawn. Now, I am on the back deck listening to a robin sing and watching the sun set while my dog snoozes at my feet.

It feels good to be done.
Bravo
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Number6
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

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Ted wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:27 pm Tonight was my last meeting as a school board member.

The meeting was called to order, we held a budget hearing, heard public comments, then adjourned as the old board. I left the table, said goodbye to everyone, went home, and mowed the lawn. Now, I am on the back deck listening to a robin sing and watching the sun set while my dog snoozes at my feet.

It feels good to be done.
Our Democratic Club held a forum, opened to the public, concerning education. On the panel was the chair of the philosophy department of a local college, two current school board members from two local school districts, and a teacher/current city council member from our city. The teacher/city council member made two interesting point which I'd like your opinion on.

1. He suggested we change the way we hire teachers. Instead of relying on teachers with college degree in teaching we should be hiring people with real world experience in various fields who have teaching credentials.

2. He also suggested changing the way superintendents are hired. If a teacher does a good job they bet promoted to department chair. If they do a good job as department chair they get promoted to principal. If they do a good job as principal they get hired as a superintendent. His suggestions was school districts should be hiring CEOs and people who've run medium to large companies because much of the duties of superintendent deals with the same skills used in business.

What are your thought on these two ideas?
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Number6
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by Number6 »

Number6 wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:47 pm Our Democratic Club held a forum, opened to the public, concerning education. On the panel was the chair of the philosophy department of a local college, two current school board members from two local school districts, and a teacher/current city council member from our city. The teacher/city council member made two interesting points which I'd like your opinion on.

1. He suggested we change the way we hire teachers. Instead of relying on teachers with college degree in teaching we should be hiring people with real world experience in various fields who have teaching credentials.

2. He also suggested changing the way superintendents are hired. If a teacher does a good job they get promoted to department chair. If they do a good job as department chair they get promoted to principal. If they do a good job as principal they get hired as a superintendent. His suggestion was school districts should be hiring CEOs and people who've run medium to large companies because much of the duties of superintendent deals with the same skills used in business.

What are your thought on these two ideas?
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ProfX
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by ProfX »

I know I wasn't asked directly, but...

I would question whether business experience is proper sole preparation for running a school, for a variety of reasons. I'm not saying a businessperson couldn't be a very good principal. However, I think they need other experience. It kind of reminds me of people who say a career in business is sole and proper preparation for running a country or a state. We've seen the recent falsification of that.

Also, the Ed.D is a credential really only certifying your pedagogical training. (It's your shortest path to being called "Dr." BTW. Takes a lot less time than a PhD or MD.) You still need to establish subject area experience. Again, depending on what you're teaching - like say Shop class - of course 'real world' workplace experience would be considered. And is. For sure, I know it is in Florida. For Vocational Ed, of course, it's expected. If they're going to teach you how to fix boats, of course you would have "real world" experience in taking them apart and working on them.

If we're talking about higher ed, well, I've never met somebody in the Business program, teaching MBA's, who hadn't already worked in "real world" business, once again, it's expected.
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gounion
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by gounion »

I agree with Prof X, business experience is great for... being a businessman. A business is an entity that is profit driven. Profit is job one.

Running a school is a totally different thing. Profit isn't the motive. Well, except for for-profit schools, which are nearly always a disaster, especially for the children.

And picking a CEO for a superintendent? Can you imagine the pay cut they'd have to take? If one was a CEO and it wasn't a pay cut, they weren't being a successful CEO.
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Ted
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by Ted »

Number6 wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:47 pm Our Democratic Club held a forum, opened to the public, concerning education. On the panel was the chair of the philosophy department of a local college, two current school board members from two local school districts, and a teacher/current city council member from our city. The teacher/city council member made two interesting point which I'd like your opinion on.

1. He suggested we change the way we hire teachers. Instead of relying on teachers with college degree in teaching we should be hiring people with real world experience in various fields who have teaching credentials.

2. He also suggested changing the way superintendents are hired. If a teacher does a good job they bet promoted to department chair. If they do a good job as department chair they get promoted to principal. If they do a good job as principal they get hired as a superintendent. His suggestions was school districts should be hiring CEOs and people who've run medium to large companies because much of the duties of superintendent deals with the same skills used in business.

What are your thought on these two ideas?
I agree with him on both points.

On item 1 - we have found some absolutely great teachers that had no teaching experience or received no teaching instruction in a post-secondary setting. After being hired, they had three years to get the required college credits and had to take a praxis test to get certified with our department of education or they could not continue teaching. Ten years ago, we would have not considered this because we received so many applications for an open position that our focus was on hiring only highly qualified applicants. Today, there are often few, or no, applicants for open positions so we have been forced to find creative solutions.

On item 2 - I would not have considered this option fifteen years ago, but the situation in education staffing has changed significantly and creative solutions are needed in this area as well. Some of the best new school superintendents come from within the education system. A superintendent without experience in education would have a steep learning curve because their duties include the needs of staff, students, parents, and the community. We are missing out on a tremendous talent pool if we exclude anyone without educational experience for this position.

Hiring in education has changed significantly in the last ten years. Positions are going to go unfilled if we are not willing to adapt to new and creative solutions when hiring school staff at all levels.

Here's a secret I share with anyone seeking to find long-term employees - hire and promote people who grew up nearby. Those people are familiar with the community, probably already have established connections to the area, and are less likely to pack up and move somewhere else. People can learn new skills. Getting them to call an area "home" can be considerably more difficult.
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by gounion »

Nice post, Ted.

Now in MY perfect fantasy world, only the very best and brightest would be teachers. Children are our future, and educating them on the cheap is not a good investment in our future.

If I was in charge, teachers would be on the level of doctor and lawyer in pay. In America, the saying is that "those who can't do, teach", and that's mostly because teachers aren't paid worth a crap. I've pointed out many times on this board my favorite teacher in high school quit to take an entry-level job at an aircraft factory. I asked why he was leaving me, and he said "My wife and I like the finer things in life. Food. A roof over our head."

Teaching should be for those who are uniquely gifted for teaching. Say I was a mechanical engineer. I was really good, at the top of my game. To be considered the best, I would then take some schooling on teaching, and then become an engineering teacher.

The level of ability and expertise that would be required to teach would be very high. Yes, it's a fantasy, but teaching is HARD. Making to so kids - or even adults - can learn the materials is something that not everyone can do. We should realize that.

That Donald Trump has so much influence shows us our educational system has let all of us down.
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Ted
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by Ted »

gounion wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:37 am I agree with Prof X, business experience is great for... being a businessman. A business is an entity that is profit driven. Profit is job one.

Running a school is a totally different thing. Profit isn't the motive. Well, except for for-profit schools, which are nearly always a disaster, especially for the children.

And picking a CEO for a superintendent? Can you imagine the pay cut they'd have to take? If one was a CEO and it wasn't a pay cut, they weren't being a successful CEO.
Profit is always a motive - even in the public school system.

That's one of the trickiest areas for a superintendent to navigate. Revenues and expenses need to be in balance or difficult financial decisions have to be made and those recommendations are generally the responsibility of the superintendent.

If a non-profit business loses money every year then it will eventually cease to exist.
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by gounion »

Yes, Ted, I was a part of a non-profit organization, a union. We had to make the books balance. But a business is about a profit as job one. That’s their reason for being.

In a capitalistic society, you have to have income. You have to have finance people. But your reason for existence is education, not profit.
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Number6
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by Number6 »

ProfX wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:44 am I know I wasn't asked directly, but...

I would question whether business experience is proper sole preparation for running a school, for a variety of reasons. I'm not saying a businessperson couldn't be a very good principal. However, I think they need other experience. It kind of reminds me of people who say a career in business is sole and proper preparation for running a country or a state. We've seen the recent falsification of that.
From listening to the members on the forum, being a superintendent is more than just balancing budgets and managing people; it's about aligning policy to federal, state, and local laws regarding education. I doubt there are very many school superintendents in nation who are up to speed on all the laws governing education. They have staff who handle many of the various education and reporting requirements which is no different in corporations. The CEO doesn't need to know the ins-and-outs of accounting and finance but has people who take care of that for them; all they have to do is be able to understand the reports they're given to make policy and decisions.

As for a career in business being a requirement for running a country or a state, I agree it's a false argument. A person who runs a successful company or runs a company into the ground doesn't mean they're capable of handling a different environment where power, particularity political power, is divided among a number of people.
Also, the Ed.D is a credential really only certifying your pedagogical training. (It's your shortest path to being called "Dr." BTW. Takes a lot less time than a PhD or MD.) You still need to establish subject area experience. Again, depending on what you're teaching - like say Shop class - of course 'real world' workplace experience would be considered. And is. For sure, I know it is in Florida. For Vocational Ed, of course, it's expected. If they're going to teach you how to fix boats, of course you would have "real world" experience in taking them apart and working on them.
There are subjects, like shop, that requires experience and others subjects, like math or English, which don't and can be taught by recent college graduates.
If we're talking about higher ed, well, I've never met somebody in the Business program, teaching MBA's, who hadn't already worked in "real world" business, once again, it's expected.
I'd say most of them were probably older, 50 years or older, who had finished one career and took on another career. That's not unusual. I've had a retired AF Colonel (lawyer) who taught business law and a retired accountant who taught accounting. Nothing wrong about that but undoubtedly they had to get teaching certificates or teaching degrees to teach at the college level.
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Number6
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

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Ted wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:11 am I agree with him on both points.

On item 1 - we have found some absolutely great teachers that had no teaching experience or received no teaching instruction in a post-secondary setting. After being hired, they had three years to get the required college credits and had to take a praxis test to get certified with our department of education or they could not continue teaching. Ten years ago, we would have not considered this because we received so many applications for an open position that our focus was on hiring only highly qualified applicants. Today, there are often few, or no, applicants for open positions so we have been forced to find creative solutions.

One problem we have in California is the state budget is produced in June and school districts have to get their budget requests to the state in March in order to determine how much state dollars the district receives. Since the district can't definitively state how many teachers they will be able afford next year they send Pink Slips to some teachers at the end of March saying they may not have a job next year. This means the affected teachers start looking for job in other school districts for the upcoming school year. I don't blame them because if I were in their position I'd do the same thing. If state funding comes through with the dollars requested now the district has to see if those teachers are available and if not hire new teachers. That's now a good business practice but it's more driven at the state level because of their procedures.
On item 2 - I would not have considered this option fifteen years ago, but the situation in education staffing has changed significantly and creative solutions are needed in this area as well. Some of the best new school superintendents come from within the education system. A superintendent without experience in education would have a steep learning curve because their duties include the needs of staff, students, parents, and the community. We are missing out on a tremendous talent pool if we exclude anyone without educational experience for this position.
I seriously doubt a school superintendent handles all the federal, state, and local laws covering education. They have staff who divide up those duties so a non-educational background wouldn't, IMO, be much of a hindrance. Yes, there would be a learning curve the same as there would be a learning curve for a new superintendent.
Hiring in education has changed significantly in the last ten years. Positions are going to go unfilled if we are not willing to adapt to new and creative solutions when hiring school staff at all levels.
Teachers are a valuable commodity and they should be paid significantly more than they currently get. Increased pay is one area where more people would consider entering as a career.
Here's a secret I share with anyone seeking to find long-term employees - hire and promote people who grew up nearby. Those people are familiar with the community, probably already have established connections to the area, and are less likely to pack up and move somewhere else. People can learn new skills. Getting them to call an area "home" can be considerably more difficult.
People with a connection to a community are less likely to move than someone who has lived there just a short time. The teacher/councilman I mentioned graduated from high school here and after college came back to teach and has done so for over 20 years.
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Glennfs
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by Glennfs »

Number6 wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:47 pm Our Democratic Club held a forum, opened to the public, concerning education. On the panel was the chair of the philosophy department of a local college, two current school board members from two local school districts, and a teacher/current city council member from our city. The teacher/city council member made two interesting point which I'd like your opinion on.

1. He suggested we change the way we hire teachers. Instead of relying on teachers with college degree in teaching we should be hiring people with real world experience in various fields who have teaching credentials.

2. He also suggested changing the way superintendents are hired. If a teacher does a good job they bet promoted to department chair. If they do a good job as department chair they get promoted to principal. If they do a good job as principal they get hired as a superintendent. His suggestions was school districts should be hiring CEOs and people who've run medium to large companies because much of the duties of superintendent deals with the same skills used in business.

What are your thought on these two ideas?
I have a niece in Texas that was hired about 15 years ago in that very manner.
I also have a son in law who has an advanced degree in biology from Clemson and was a molecular biologist who last year quit a 90k a year job to become a school teacher in the same manner.

Both had to take some additional courses and pass a state test.

So it is being done and is a very good way to find people who really want to teach.
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by Motor City »

Number6 wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:47 pm Our Democratic Club held a forum, opened to the public, concerning education. On the panel was the chair of the philosophy department of a local college, two current school board members from two local school districts, and a teacher/current city council member from our city. The teacher/city council member made two interesting point which I'd like your opinion on.

1. He suggested we change the way we hire teachers. Instead of relying on teachers with college degree in teaching we should be hiring people with real world experience in various fields who have teaching credentials.

2. He also suggested changing the way superintendents are hired. If a teacher does a good job they bet promoted to department chair. If they do a good job as department chair they get promoted to principal. If they do a good job as principal they get hired as a superintendent. His suggestions was school districts should be hiring CEOs and people who've run medium to large companies because much of the duties of superintendent deals with the same skills used in business.

What are your thought on these two ideas?
Sounds like the current austerity-based employment administering is not consistent with attracting or maintaining people in the teaching jobs and that it is causing such trouble that they want to instead of not doing the abusive bad policy they want to continue on with it and are considering anything that might serve that purpose.

The CEO hiring would be so that instead of serving the public interest it would serve private ones. Swapping skill sets as a monkey wrench to the system.
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gounion
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

Post by gounion »

Glennfs wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:17 pm I have a niece in Texas that was hired about 15 years ago in that very manner.
I also have a son in law who has an advanced degree in biology from Clemson and was a molecular biologist who last year quit a 90k a year job to become a school teacher in the same manner.

Both had to take some additional courses and pass a state test.

So it is being done and is a very good way to find people who really want to teach.
And your son-in-law took quite a cut in pay to become a teacher, didn't he?
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Re: Stepping Down As An Elected Official

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gounion wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:56 pm And your son-in-law took quite a cut in pay to become a teacher, didn't he?
It's possible. In the early 70s, I had an instructor who told us about his previous career. He worked directly under a corporation headed by a millionaire, back when being a millionaire was rarer, and he would be called at two in the morning by this guy and told he needed to be in X city that morning for business. He said he did that for about 10 years and although he was paid well he wasn't happy in his job so he became a college instructor which he said he loved.
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