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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:18 pm 
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One reason I go around asking, rhetorically, aggro questions like "but where are the conservative moderates" and such is in part because in my view they are consistently shown up by their liberal counterparts, including in matters of religious practice.

As many people may also know, I happen to also be professionally affiliated with #BLM and Moral Mondays-affiliated clergy (not solely Christian, but mainly Christian.)

I often start a thread called "Amen Corner" to this end, not limiting it to Christianity, of course. But in liberal and mainline Christianity, they are more about doing than getting on television and being seen. This is not to say that everyone on television is just in it to be seen, no.

But with desperate measures like Trumpf's "Black Pastors" high-profile albeit secretive, oh-so-closed-door meetings and such in the nooz, so often, what liberal religious are doing "on the ground" either goes unnoticed, or unheard, because they're really not into tooting their own horns.

This is a thread to highlight people doing the actual work.

To start: Bishop Roy I Sano, United Methodist Church (UMC)

Amid hysteria, a call for hospitality

Quote:
Following the Paris terrorist attacks on Nov. 12, David Bowers — the mayor of Roanoke, Virginia — urged local governments and nonprofit groups not to accept Syrian refugees. According to the Roanoke Times, the governor appealed to the precedence of President Franklin D. Roosevelt who, Bowers said, “felt compelled to sequester Japanese foreign nationals after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, and it appears that the threat of harm to America from ISIS now is just as real and serious as that from our enemies then.”

A flurry of protests prompted Mayor Bowers a few days later to express regret for offending people with his remarks. More than apologies for hurting people’s feelings are in order.

If we do not curb such reckless pronouncements from public figures, frightened and angry people will become violent in the war on terrorism. I can attest personally to the costs of such fear and hatred.

Where this can lead

A Japanese-American couple was murdered on a farm next to ours, and a Filipino American was wounded in a drive-by shooting for being too friendly with Japanese Americans.

Amidst the turbulence, President Roosevelt issued Executive Order 9066, to remove us to the camps. On the same day, FBI hauled away thousands of men, including my father and our pastor. They were sent to a World War II version of “Guantanamo” in Bismarck, North Dakota, for Japanese, German and Italian Americans.

For our safety, Mom moved us into town where we lived with the pastor’s wife and family. One night we woke up to gunfire. Vigilantes claimed they saw flashlight signals in the tall windows of our church. Clandestine messages sent in full view of the windows? We clearly do not think straight when we succumb to mass hysteria.

Before we left for our internment, my parents stored our belongings in the basement of our church, as did other members. Arsonists burned down the church in our absence — very likely, after ransacking our valuables.

Each of us left for camp with all we could carry in one suitcase. Our family went to Poston, Arizona — a desolate place, like others camps in Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, Colorado and Hawaii.

The summers were blistering hot, and the winters bitterly cold. Dust storms blew sand into the hastily built, flimsy barracks. Families were crowded into single rooms, 20 by 20 feet, in the barracks. There were five of us in our family. We used public facilities to bathe, use the toilet, wash clothes and eat in a mess hall. The loss of privacy deepened the humiliation for being “enemy aliens.”


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:18 pm 
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Rev. Traci Blackmon is a United Church of Christ pastor who has risen to prominence by her frontline participation in Black Lives Matter in the St. Louis/Florissant/Ferguson area. (Even though she's UCC, she comes from an African Methodist Episcopal Church [AMEC] background, which happens to be my home denomination, so speaking for all AMEs, we'll happily claim her :D ) She was recently named to lead the UCC's Justice and Witness Ministries, in addition to being named an Ebony Mag 100 for this year.

She put this on the Race, Rhetoric and Religion blog on Patheos today

An Urgent Message to the Church

Quote:
We simply must respond to this heightened and hateful display of Islamaphobia with more than silent prayers and sad thoughts.

These attacks on a people of faith because of the actions of a rogue constituency is unconscionable and, from Christians, it is beyond hypocritical since we have conveniently found a way to disassociate our faith from the long legacy of murderous and sinful acts perpetrated by the KKK in our nation.

The venom now being wielded at a religion of peace, because of our fear and in the name of righteousness must not speak for us. It is at this intersection of oppressions…racism, nationalism, and religious bigotry…that we must choose another path.

A path that leads us, because of our faith, to stand with our brothers and sisters boldly against any form of religious intolerance, no matter how far away from our churches it may seem.

We must be committed to speaking out against hateful, inciting rhetoric, no matter how public and how powerful the voice.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:26 am 
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From the Salem Statesman Journal

Salem religious leaders respond to Trump

Rabbi Daniel Aronson, interim rabbi at Temple Beth Shalom (Reconstructionist)

The Rev. John Moody, pastor at Westminster Presbyterian Church PC(USA)

The Rev. Joseph Heuberger, pastor at St. Vincent de Paul Catholic Church

The Rev. Rick Davis, minster at Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Salem

Andy Gitelson, executive director of Oregon Hillel Foundation at the University of Oregon and Oregon State University and co-chair of the Oregon Religious Directors Association

The Rev. Dr. Janet Parker, senior pastor at First Congregational United Church of Christ

Worth a read

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:01 am 
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First they came for....
"
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
"

How many times does this have to be asked?

And as sung by Sonney and Cher, "The beat goes on."
www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:12 am 
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First they came for....
"
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
"

How many times does this have to be asked?

And as sung by Sonney and Cher, "The beat goes on."
www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com



Yeah and since the NY Daily News has been going OFF in their front page art, they came out with this yesterday

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Additional freakouts ensued

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:32 am 
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Welton Gaddy (from the left wing of the Southern Baptist Convention), fmr head of Interfaith Alliance and Americans United for Separation of Church and State, at the Muslim Advocates Dinner

"First Amendment wouldn't pass if proposed today. Extremely short-sighted people are seeking to change the definition of 'liberty' in order to claim a freedom for themselves that they refuse to extend to others."

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4565485/welton-gaddy - worth all 9 minutes, imo

http://stateofbelief.com/

http://www.interfaithalliance.org/

http://allianceofbaptists.org/Home

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:04 am 
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This I like! Welcome back Amen Corner!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:06 am 
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This I like! Welcome back Amen Corner!

Amen to that.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:55 am 
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Amen.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:53 am 
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Reform Movement Condemns Donald Trump's Comments on Muslim Entry into U.S.
http://www.rac.org/reform-movement-cond ... m-entry-us

Refugee Crisis Response
http://www.rac.org/refugee-crisis-response

Like others around the world, we are shocked and pained by the acts of terror perpetrated against the people of Paris. We join in the statement issued by the World Union for Progressive Judaism. In the aftermath of the attacks, some have called on the U.S. to place stricter limits on refugees generally or to limit refugees of particular religions. Such calls are deeply concerning and do not reflect our values as a nation rooted in principles of religious freedom.

[snip][end]

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:31 am 
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I don't know how you can be both deeply religious and staunchly liberal. Why espouse a religion if you don't believe in its tenets? The existence of a deity, or deities? The need to obey the laws that come from these deities? The belief that this religion is the one true one?
If you believe these things, how can you also believe that all other religions, as well as atheism, are as valid? Belief in a certain path to salvation is biased against the beliefs of others. This is not the liberal POV. As an atheist, I can't even swear by my own label of "Liberal," because while I don't particularly CARE what others choose to believe, I definitely don't want these beliefs to be the bases for laws affecting everyone.
Perhaps, rather than professing to be religious per se, it would be better to cite some form of "spitituality," expressed as Humanism?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:14 am 
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There are hundreds of 'mainline," "major," religious organizations in the US...And thousands of others. So not every group will make a statement on every issue. And there are potential tax implications of directly criticizing a political candidate.

That said, it seems that the consensus has been pretty broad, among almost all religious groups (as well as political groups), the religious tests are not part of what the United States should be about.

Prof mentioned the Reform Jewish groups, but the Orthodox Union and the Orthodox Rabbinical Council of America also, this week, rejected calls to limit immigration 'no matter how they worship God." Similar statements have come from the Anti Defamation League, the American Jewish Committee, and many other organizations.

Similar statements are also coming from mainline Christian groups...the mainstream press and even the bulk of Republicans.

I'd say this is one issue, where the cry (action is a different issue) has been pretty loud.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:21 am 
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Action is a different issue.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:30 am 
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I don't know how you can be both deeply religious and staunchly liberal. Why espouse a religion if you don't believe in its tenets? The existence of a deity, or deities? The need to obey the laws that come from these deities? The belief that this religion is the one true one?
If you believe these things, how can you also believe that all other religions, as well as atheism, are as valid? Belief in a certain path to salvation is biased against the beliefs of others. This is not the liberal POV. As an atheist, I can't even swear by my own label of "Liberal," because while I don't particularly CARE what others choose to believe, I definitely don't want these beliefs to be the bases for laws affecting everyone.
Perhaps, rather than professing to be religious per se, it would be better to cite some form of "spitituality," expressed as Humanism?
You seem to be coming from a particular perspective putting on your view of what a 'deeply religious' person might believe. Once you leave your notion of what others think, you might have a better understating of how a perspective that there is an "authority " that places all people under the same set of laws and standards, be they rich or poor, powerful or weak, or that we have a communal responsibility for others. Some religions don't have the perspective that there is only one way to do things.

And as a liberal, it is not incumbent on us to believe that every perspective and point of view is equally valid. In fact 'liberal's don't. That is what makes them liberals, as opposed to 'nothings.' (In fact wouldn't that negate your own definition of being "liberal.")

Finally, I don't really know what 'staunchly' liberal means. Even people within the liberal camp often disagree on various issues.....


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:51 am 
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Staunchly liberal (or left anything) means that you raise your voice even higher when arguing with other liberals/ lefties/ progressives.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:33 pm 
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For we non-theists, there are 'nones', there are 'somes' and there are the 'dones'. But TBH, 'staunchly' to me has a religious connotation. Kind of a secular version of 'fervent' or otherwise rigid, though not to the level of fanatical.

For a lot of people, they are liberals because of their faith rather than despite it, and also despite 3rd party attempts to define their relationship to a faith tradition for them. Every person has their own journey with this.


Last edited by carmenjonze on Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:25 pm 
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The belief that this religion is the one true one?

The belief that this spiritual tradition is a true one for that person. (And that person is typically encouraged to cultivate such a belief with intense conviction.)

And it is not necessarily the only true path for that person, nor is it necessarily an appropriate path for other people.

These are some of the perspectives of liberal religious people, at least that's what I hear them espousing, an acceptance of tremendous outward diversity in such matters. However, the end pursuit is still more or less the same across all spiritual traditions, including humanism - how to live a good and decent life.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:01 pm 
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For we non-theists, there are 'nones', there are 'somes' and there are the 'dones'. But TBH, 'staunchly' to me has a religious connotation. Kind of a secular version of 'fervent' or otherwise rigid, though not to the level of fanatical.

For a lot of people, they are liberals because of their faith rather than despite it, and also despite 3rd party attempts to define their relationship to a faith tradition for them. Every person has their own journey with this.

When people talk about Christianity these days people automatically think about the most vocal hateful strain, RWNJ Evangelical Christianity.

The more quiet strain is the Social Gospel. They are so quiet often I for one forget they exist. In the US it was the Social Gospel values that gave rise to the New Deal. In Canada they gave rise to the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation, the predecessor of the New Democratic Party. In Canada the first socialist government elected in North America was led by Tommy Douglas (Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather) who was a Baptist Minister before he entered politics. He was the one who created the Crown Corporations, and was the Canadian Father of Medicare.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:09 pm 
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When people talk about Christianity these days people automatically think about the most vocal hateful strain, RWNJ Evangelical Christianity.

The more quiet strain is the Social Gospel. They are so quiet often I for one forget they exist. In the US it was the Social Gospel values that gave rise to the New Deal. In Canada they gave rise to the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation, the predecessor of the New Democratic Party. In Canada the first socialist government elected in North America was led by Tommy Douglas (Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather) who was a Baptist Minister before he entered politics. He was the one who created the Crown Corporations, and was the Canadian Father of Medicare.


Yeah, liberal Protestantism has a very rich history. If you're familiar with Paul Rauschenbusch from Huffington Post Religion, his great-grandfather is a major Social Gospel figure.

So is the Salvation Army, fbofw.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:19 pm 
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Moved by moral imperative, Canadian synagogues sponsor Syrian refugees, Peterborough, Ontario Jewish congregation helps local mosque hit by arson attack

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:06 pm 
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I don't know how you can be both deeply religious and staunchly liberal.


Perhaps you should talk to some people who are religious and liberal. I am mostly irreligious, unobservant, and agnostic, so I can't really help you with that personally.

I accept folks who are both, and I know many. In general, one thing they say is that the religious reich gets all the attention, to their detriment, because the religious left does exist. It may not be as noisy, or as activist, or as dogmatic - but the latter is by nature.

Quote:
Why espouse a religion if you don't believe in its tenets?


If you are a modernist, which many religious liberals are, you accept that its tenets can change, and maybe should, over time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist–Modernist_Controversy

Quote:
The existence of a deity, or deities? The need to obey the laws that come from these deities? The belief that this religion is the one true one?


If you're familiar with Eastern traditions, you may know all of these are not seen as necessary conditions, even the latter.

Then there's the earliest of religions, what often get lumped as animism; as they developed in oral societies, they don't have dogmatism, either.

Quote:
If you believe these things, how can you also believe that all other religions, as well as atheism, are as valid?


Again, it depends on how familiar you are with mystical and esoteric traditions, like Sufism and Kabbalism, which often emphasize that exoteric differences start to look less significant once you approach the esoteric core.

Quote:
Belief in a certain path to salvation is biased against the beliefs of others.


That's true. But some traditions have a very open view when it comes to soteriology.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:15 am 
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The latest Trump nonsense, probably the worst of Trumps nonsense next to "Mexicans", is about the number of kinder and gentler right-winger republican Americans who hate the idea of any non-Americans in America. There are a lot of them in this country. So many I strongly suspect because over the last several decades there are more evangelical conservative Christians in this country than any other religious "sect". Numbers I've seen suggest that 25% of religious Americans now identify themselves as "evangelical." I find that to be an exceedingly scary number.

And I found some interesting related lists...

12 States with the most white evangelical Christians, from Beliefnet.
1. Tennessee
2. Oklahoma
3. Alabama
4. W. Virgina
5. Arkansas
6. N. Carolina
7. Kentucky
8. S. Carolina
9. Mississippi
10. Kansas
11. Georgia
12. Virginia

12 States in the US with the most identified hate crimes, from The Top Tens.
1. Mississippi
2. Alabama
3. Texas
4. Tennesee
5. Louisiana
6. Georgia
7. Kentucky
8. Florida
9. Oklahoma
10. Missouri
11. Arkansas
12. South Carolina

Here's an interesting map from the wacky Wildmon's of the American Family Association. It's the AFA's "Hate Map" of locations of the highest concentrations of anti-Christian "bigotry":
ImageImage
Dontcha love Wildmon's hater categories? Fuckin' humanist bigots!!!

I was going to try to correlate all this to Trump's popularity but I found it difficult to even find a state by state list of Trump's latest poll numbers, alas that must wait.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:25 pm 
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Trump is jumping on the usual fear and anger that lurk in any democratic system, the way they all do. As demagogues go, he's not even all that interesting a one. Hitler was a much better painter (though still no Picasso), and Mussolini had a much better theoretical grasp of it all.

Go back a ways and you find Alexander the Great, who wore one of history's largest codpieces in battle. Even goober tied his parachute harness to look like a small codpiece on the Mission Impossible Accomplished carrier strut where he finally got to feel like a real soldier and everything.

Herr Trump doesn't wear a codpiece at all. Boring. It may turn out that even our fascists are dull.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:33 am 
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All I know for a fact isIwas born and raised on NYS,became a declared atheist at12, and that's all that matters to me in any argument involving god and the numerous almost-equals sitting up there on thrones, or such, and bark orders to their earthly minions. Boring! Boring in concept. in presentation. and the type of people such drivel attracts.
I'm sure that the fervor to spread the news is real, but it's fear-based and desperate way to waste one's time. DO SOMETHING with your own two legsa and arms. Something good.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:07 am 
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I'm sure that the fervor to spread the news is real, but it's fear-based and desperate way to waste one's time.


Not always. I would say with liberal religious people, not often.

Quote:
DO SOMETHING with your own two legsa and arms. Something good.


That is exactly what this thread is about. :) The perception is that they're not doing anything or what they do is insufficient. It's a false perception.

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