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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:53 pm 
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This is one of the reasons I wish Motor City was here. I'm sure he would have posted this by now.

But anyway.

Snyder declares emergency as feds probe Flint water
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/m ... /78303960/

LANSING — Gov. Rick Snyder declared a state of emergency for Flint and Genesee County Tuesday as a result of the contaminated drinking water crisis, on the same day the U.S. Attorney’s Office confirmed it is investigating the contamination of Flint’s drinking water supply.

Snyder's office issued a news release late Tuesday saying the governor made the declaration "due to the ongoing health and safety issues caused by lead in the city of Flint’s drinking water" and activated the state Emergency Operations Center.

Flint's drinking water became contaminated with lead in 2014 after switching its supply source from Lake Huron to the more polluted and corrosive Flint River. The move — a cost-cutting measure while the city was under the control of a state-appointed emergency manager — resulted in a spike in lead levels in children, which causes permanent brain damage. A recent preliminary report from a task force appointed by Snyder placed most of the blame on the state Department of Environmental Quality and prompted the Dec. 29 resignation of DEQ Director Dan Wyant.

Although the state assisted Flint in switching its drinking water supply back to Lake Huron water from Flint River water in October, there are concerns that lead problems persist due to damage the corrosive river water caused to the water distribution system.

[snip][end]

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:38 am 
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is this mystery lead? no one knows how it got there lead.
is this--i cant tell from the article-- is this the investigation?....to find out Where
the lead is coming from?....

isnt detroit where thebruthas dumped all the coal ash along the river banks leaving
it to blow around the city for a long time..

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:55 am 
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Rachel Maddow has been reporting on the water problem in Flint during the week. Go to her website and you'll get some really good information about this scandal.
Rachel Maddow

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:54 am 
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This is one of the reasons I wish Motor City was here. I'm sure he would have posted this by now.

But anyway.

Snyder declares emergency as feds probe Flint water
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/m ... /78303960/

LANSING — Gov. Rick Snyder declared a state of emergency for Flint and Genesee County Tuesday as a result of the contaminated drinking water crisis, on the same day the U.S. Attorney’s Office confirmed it is investigating the contamination of Flint’s drinking water supply.

Snyder's office issued a news release late Tuesday saying the governor made the declaration "due to the ongoing health and safety issues caused by lead in the city of Flint’s drinking water" and activated the state Emergency Operations Center.

Flint's drinking water became contaminated with lead in 2014 after switching its supply source from Lake Huron to the more polluted and corrosive Flint River. The move — a cost-cutting measure while the city was under the control of a state-appointed emergency manager — resulted in a spike in lead levels in children, which causes permanent brain damage. A recent preliminary report from a task force appointed by Snyder placed most of the blame on the state Department of Environmental Quality and prompted the Dec. 29 resignation of DEQ Director Dan Wyant.

Although the state assisted Flint in switching its drinking water supply back to Lake Huron water from Flint River water in October, there are concerns that lead problems persist due to damage the corrosive river water caused to the water distribution system.

[snip][end]

riiight. it was the deq director's fault. couldn't have been the fault of the snyder-appointed emergency manager. one wonders if there was a water quality report when the city made the switch and what that report might have said.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:14 pm 
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The Flint River has been known to have been unhealthy since at least the 1960's. It was a major industrial town that hosted many GM and Fisher body plants, going back to the 1880's.

Over the past 20-30 years, the city has seen such a downturn that they can't maintain their infrastructure. The population has dwindled by more than half.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:06 pm 
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The damage done is irreparable in the case of children who drank the water. It will be yet another problem that reinforces the existing damage done to Flint by globalization. Mothers will have to wait and see how much their children have intellectual or behavioral issues. Just what Flint needed, to go with the class and race consequences of previous disruptive economic decisions made to benefit more influential groups of people in other cities.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:14 pm 
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The damage done is irreparable in the case of children who drank the water. It will be yet another problem that reinforces the existing damage done to Flint by globalization. Mothers will have to wait and see how much their children have intellectual or behavioral issues. Just what Flint needed, to go with the class and race consequences of previous disruptive economic decisions made to benefit more influential groups of people in other cities.
I don't know. Some might argue that globalization might have helped (environmentally anyway) Flint, as it was one factor playing a role in closing the polluting factories.

But you make the assumption that the old factories, many of which would be over 100 years old by now, would have been replaced very locally....and not a bit farther.

i agree with you regarding disruptive economic decisions. Very difficult. But even on a national or more local scale, there are disruptions as economies and governments evolve.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:27 pm 
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I can't be sure Flint wouldn't have imploded anyway. But, in this case, it was a symptom. Eastern Lower Michigan imploded. Northern IN and western PA imploded. Parts of OH imploded. It created the Rust Belt. The consequences were regional.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:45 pm 
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I don't know. Some might argue that globalization might have helped (environmentally anyway) Flint, as it was one factor playing a role in closing the polluting factories.

But you make the assumption that the old factories, many of which would be over 100 years old by now, would have been replaced very locally....and not a bit farther.

i agree with you regarding disruptive economic decisions. Very difficult. But even on a national or more local scale, there are disruptions as economies and governments evolve.

Evolution? Yes. But in which direction?

Creative destruction has emphasis of late on destruction.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:18 am 
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im wondering if it will ever be determined from where this lead emanates.
its got to be coming, still, from some where. some polluted hole left behind.

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:55 am 
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im wondering if it will ever be determined from where this lead emanates.
its got to be coming, still, from some where. some polluted hole left behind.


The water pipes are very old and contain lead, which is common for old water pipes. Under normal conditions the lead doesn't leach out of the pipe. In this case Flint switched from Detroit Water supply to the Flint River to save money. Flint River water has a higher salt content which was just corrosive enough to disturb the pipe structure which then leached lead into the supply. Not something easily anticipated.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:59 am 
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The water pipes are very old and contain lead, which is common for old water pipes. Under normal conditions the lead doesn't leach out of the pipe. In this case Flint switched from Detroit Water supply to the Flint River to save money. Flint River water has a higher salt content which was just corrosive enough to disturb the pipe structure which then leached lead into the supply. Not something easily anticipated.

i didnt see your post.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/emails- ... -disaster/
Another email included in the FOIA request was one from Mark Miller, the local health services director for the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services, who appears to have suspected the source of the problem — aging pipes — months before the state acknowledged it.

"Sounds like the issue is old lead service lines," Miller wrote in a July 22 email to colleagues.

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
HST.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:14 am 
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the question returns to why was the switch made from lake water to river water.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:48 am 
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i didnt see your post.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/emails- ... -disaster/
Another email included in the FOIA request was one from Mark Miller, the local health services director for the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services, who appears to have suspected the source of the problem — aging pipes — months before the state acknowledged it.

"Sounds like the issue is old lead service lines," Miller wrote in a July 22 email to colleagues.


Some more of that decaying infrastructure we have ignored. Just think, if we had invested all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ we just wasted in the middle east since 2001 in our infrastructure....

No unemployment - massive reconstruction projects all over this country, a healthy middle class able to purchase homes, cars, send kids to college, take vacations, contribute taxes....instead a few families stole billions from the treasury and made fortunes off the backs of our injured and dead service members, with nothing to show for the effort in the end but misery. (RWNJs will never understand this is why we are so HATED).


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:58 am 
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Whether or not it could have been anticipated, people were warning about problems with the plan in January of 2015, including the famous Erin Brockovich (who looks nothing like Julia Roberts).

The very problem we're discussing was definitively discovered & detected in September of 2015.

Nice discussion of how all this enfolded:
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.s ... me.html#30

You'll have to go through the slideshow, but it lays it out, chronologically.

Including the history of denial by Gov. Snyder, his local dictator (emergency manager), and other authorities.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:43 am 
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A few links on this subject, The infrastructure is a secondary issue that comes into play as a consequence of not putting a chemical treatment in the water that coats the inside of the pipes, because of the corrosive untreated water exasperates the situation.

Year before water change, state knew of risks in Flint

Quote:
State and local officials knew in 2013 that without proper treatment of water drawn from the Flint River, they risked subjecting the people of Flint to lead-contaminated drinking water.

But the next year, the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality OK'd Flint's plan to pump water from the river, and into residents' homes, without adding an important chemical that would prevent contamination from lead in old pipes.

A report commissioned by Flint in 2011 evaluating the Flint River as a long-term source of drinking water, and delivered by the city to the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality two years later, included that chemical — phosphate, often referred to as corrosion control — on a list of chemicals required to make river water safe to drink. Two years later, a Flint employee emailed the report to an MDEQ drinking water official, who passed it along to another state staffer, documents obtained by the Free Press via a Freedom of Information Act request show.

For water treatment professionals, the importance of phosphates is obvious: More corrosive water is more likely to degrade the interior of service lines, allowing dangerous substances from those pipes to enter the water. By forming a barrier inside service lines and plumbing pipes, phosphates limit the corrosive effect of water, and stop lead from contaminating the water.

It's also common knowledge that river water, subject to constant changes of temperature and makeup, tends to be more corrosive than lake water — and is likely to require treatment with phosphates. Nor is it a mystery that an aging, broke city like Flint would have older homes with lead plumbing, or that its water distribution system would include lead service lines or welds.

And this is why the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality's public response to the drinking water crisis in Flint — a spike in lead levels that's resulted in an increased number of lead poisoned kids — doesn't add up.........



Quote:
..........There's one more thing the city, or MDEQ, might have learned from that 2011 report about Flint River water: Phosphates are cheap. To prevent lead from contaminating Flint's water, to protect children from the lifelong damage caused by lead poisoning, wouldn't have cost much.

Just $60 a day.


MDEQ e-mails show stunning indifference to Flint peril
Q & A on Flint's water troubles


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTO9irD ... e=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4n9ZeDuhdU

oh yea Hey to everybody, been taking a break

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:09 am 
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Good to see you again, Motor.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:23 pm 
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oh yea Hey to everybody, been taking a break

Welcome back.

It's nice to hear your voice again.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:32 pm 
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thanks and Right back at ya

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:46 pm 
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thanks and Right back at ya

*big smile*


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:07 pm 
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the question returns to why was the switch made from lake water to river water.


Flint is financially broke and from 2011-2015 was under its second Financial Emergency. Emergency Management determined it would be to Flint's financial advantage split from Detroit Water and run its own water system. That required setting up a feed from the lake directly into the Flint water system which was taking longer to build than expected. There was already an older feeder from the Flint River so they switched to the Flint River feed as a temporary measure until the lake feed was completed.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:20 pm 
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Erin Brockovich still lives (and practices) in L.A., and she's on full rock and roll over the Porter Ranch disaster.

(I must call it a disaster. It fits the dictionary definition of same. It is not a malfunction, and it is not an unusual occurrence. It is a calamitous event with extensive disruption of life and property. It's just a little slower than all the other disasters around here. It's even making aircraft stay away. One guy says it'll measurably speed up global climate change.)

One of her people apparently showed up helping to drum up a class action, with a map showing the leaking well in the wrong place. (L.A. Weekly, at the link I posted elsewhere.)

Hi Motor City, and welcome. Yes, from what little I really know, Flint seems like a case of negligence. The fact that they were aware there was a problem, and that the response was to give out water filters to a few (churches? Is that what I heard?), makes it a major liability.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:37 pm 
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A few links on this subject, The infrastructure is a secondary issue that comes into play as a consequence of not putting a chemical treatment in the water that coats the inside of the pipes, because of the corrosive untreated water exasperates the situation.

Year before water change, state knew of risks in Flint



MDEQ e-mails show stunning indifference to Flint peril
Q & A on Flint's water troubles


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTO9irD ... e=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4n9ZeDuhdU

oh yea Hey to everybody, been taking a break


phosphates....thats some stunning negligence and avoidance.
wow.

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
HST.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:09 pm 
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A few links on this subject, The infrastructure is a secondary issue that comes into play as a consequence of not putting a chemical treatment in the water that coats the inside of the pipes, because of the corrosive untreated water exasperates the situation.

Year before water change, state knew of risks in Flint






MDEQ e-mails show stunning indifference to Flint peril
Q & A on Flint's water troubles


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTO9irD ... e=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4n9ZeDuhdU

oh yea Hey to everybody, been taking a break

Hey there Motor! Good to "see" you. Missed your missives.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:42 pm 
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i heard a water guy on amyGoodman say everyone knew the flint river water was Bad.
as soon as they hooked in it looked bad it tasted bad and it smelled bad. :shock:

and they knew that beforehand.

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Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
HST.


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