The Covid-19 Pandemic Thread

[ZoWie]

Testing and contact tracing is useless if the majority of people are wanting to act like covid is over, even when they know it really isn't. The amount of denial that's around right now is staggering. I get it that people gave up, but that's no excuse for idiocy like making masking optional on airplanes.

There seems to be a certain desire to consciously reject the data-backed fact that the US would not lead the world in covid deaths had its president for the first year not been in total denial that there was a problem.

[ap215]

North Korea reports 1st COVID-19 death after ‘explosive’ fever spreads nationwide

At least one person confirmed to have COVID-19 has died in North Korea and hundreds of thousands have shown fever symptoms, state media said on Friday, offering hints at the potentially dire scale of country’s first confirmed outbreak since the pandemic began.

Some 187,800 people are currently being treated in isolation after a fever of unidentified origin has “explosively spread nationwide” since late April, the official KCNA news agency reported.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8831614/nort ... ationwide/

[bradman]

i gave up on the anti vaxxer's months ago. Vax, don't vax, whatever. i said as much to my brother (anti-vaxxer) who hadn't been allowed around Mom or my family for almost a year. It started as a nice conversation. He missed Mom and my side of the family. Since covid cases were down at the time, i was willing to try and help. It started to go south when he mention the whole covid thing was fake, and it wasn't any worse than the seasonal flu. i let it go and tried to set up new ground rules. Masks, testing, tracking, and isolation. Common courtesy. Limit the risk. He told me i worried to much. He and his wife had covid the week before and it wasn't any worse than a head cold. i asked him if he tested. Nope. Then how do you know you had covid? And more importantly, how do you know if you're asymptomatic or not? The frustration started to rise when he asked what asymptomatic was. What i then tried to explain obviously went in one ear and out the other. Instead, he jumped back on the, covid is fake thing and proceeded to tell me about all those empty hospital beds. i tried to explain the difference between a hospital bed and a bed in a ICU unit. One we had plenty of, the other we don't. His next comment changed my mood from frustration to anger. He wanted to know what a ICU bed was. i almost lost it. Instead, i calmly explained to him if he was going to talk like that and refuse to do what i consider common courtesy in testing, tracking. and isolation, that it was best if he didn't show up here again. It's been 2 months now and i haven't heard a word from him. So be it. The ball is in his court.

[gounion]

i gave up on the anti vaxxer's months ago. Vax, don't vax, whatever. i said as much to my brother (anti-vaxxer) who hadn't been allowed around Mom or my family for almost a year. It started as a nice conversation. He missed Mom and my side of the family. Since covid cases were down at the time, i was willing to try and help. It started to go south when he mention the whole covid thing was fake, and it wasn't any worse than the seasonal flu. i let it go and tried to set up new ground rules. Masks, testing, tracking, and isolation. Common courtesy. Limit the risk. He told me i worried to much. He and his wife had covid the week before and it wasn't any worse than a head cold. i asked him if he tested. Nope. Then how do you know you had covid? And more importantly, how do you know if you're asymptomatic or not? The frustration started to rise when he asked what asymptomatic was. What i then tried to explain obviously went in one ear and out the other. Instead, he jumped back on the, covid is fake thing and proceeded to tell me about all those empty hospital beds. i tried to explain the difference between a hospital bed and a bed in a ICU unit. One we had plenty of, the other we don't. His next comment changed my mood from frustration to anger. He wanted to know what a ICU bed was. i almost lost it. Instead, i calmly explained to him if he was going to talk like that and refuse to do what i consider common courtesy in testing, tracking. and isolation, that it was best if he didn't show up here again. It's been 2 months now and i haven't heard a word from him. So be it. The ball is in his court.

You should hook him up with Joe Memphis. They have a lot in common!

[JoeMemphis]

You should hook him up with Joe Memphis. They have a lot in common!

It’s consistent with what I have said all along. You protect folks at high risk which is what Brad appears to be doing in this case. It’s a targeted surgical approach.

What do you suggest? Forcing everyone in the state to mask up and lock down. That was the approach you advocated. So instead of protecting the vulnerable, we instead spent time, money and resources on policies for people who were not at risk.

As an aside, I hope Brads mom stays safe and continues to do well.

[gounion]

It’s consistent with what I have said all along. You protect folks at high risk which is what Brad appears to be doing in this case. It’s a targeted surgical approach.

What do you suggest? Forcing everyone in the state to mask up and lock down. That was the approach you advocated. So instead of protecting the vulnerable, we instead spent time, money and resources on policies for people who were not at risk.

Brad's brother is just like you - pretends the virus ain't a big deal. Blames the government for common-sense actions to save lives. And pretend it's all fake anyway.

It's folks like you that pretended smoking wasn't harmful, and if you didn't like smoking, then don't smoke.

My mother had a bad lung disease. In the seventies, that made her a shut-in. She couldn't go to a restaurant, she couldn't go to the grocery store. People like you said it was more important to have the right to smoke. There wasn't anything harmful in it anyway. After all, the tobacco CEO's testified under oath before Congress that there wasn't anything harmful in cigarette smoke, didn't they?

And they said that there was a smoking and non-smoking section in the restaurant, anyway. Just sit in the non-smoking section!

But a whiff of smoke set her off in horrible spams of coughing.

You didn't give a shit about the vulnerable. All you care about is the profits, and by GOD, those restaurants had to stay open because money is more important to you that human fucking life.

Brad's brother's problem is he's just like you - he doesn't really believe in the germ theory. And you tell me who's vulnerable. Because I knew healthy people in their thirties that died.

But again, you don't give a shit WHO dies.

[ZoWie]

The anti-vax anti-mask people are beyond reaching and I stopped trying. They inhabit a different planet.

Jill Psaki had some good provocative comments about how she sees the current information environment after being in the eye of the storm for a year or whatever. She thinks basically the same thing I do, namely that social media have created a true post-truth environment where the crazy ideas of 10% get the eye of the other 90%. Meanwhile, the more traditional information sources which routinely check facts to save their legal asses decline in readership/viewership/listenership.

It's crazy in LA. You have the minority that read the health guidance, and comply with the current policy, which is to mask up in crowded inside spaces with poor air circulation. You have the majority, who think it's either over or a librul plot to make it harder for conservatives to breathe.

Majority tyranny is the result. There are places where smart people just don't go. Friends are lost. Live theater is in decline. Etc..

Fucking lousy way to live, then you wonder why inflation is the highest in 40 years, globalization is breaking down, and everything's going south except the inverted yield curve. Or maybe you don't wonder.

I don't.

[JoeMemphis]

Brad's brother is just like you - pretends the virus ain't a big deal. Blames the government for common-sense actions to save lives. And pretend it's all fake anyway.

It's folks like you that pretended smoking wasn't harmful, and if you didn't like smoking, then don't smoke.

My mother had a bad lung disease. In the seventies, that made her a shut-in. She couldn't go to a restaurant, she couldn't go to the grocery store. People like you said it was more important to have the right to smoke. There wasn't anything harmful in it anyway. After all, the tobacco CEO's testified under oath before Congress that there wasn't anything harmful in cigarette smoke, didn't they?

And they said that there was a smoking and non-smoking section in the restaurant, anyway. Just sit in the non-smoking section!

But a whiff of smoke set her off in horrible spams of coughing.

You didn't give a shit about the vulnerable. All you care about is the profits, and by GOD, those restaurants had to stay open because money is more important to you that human fucking life.

Brad's brother's problem is he's just like you - he doesn't really believe in the germ theory. And you tell me who's vulnerable. Because I knew healthy people in their thirties that died.

But again, you don't give a shit WHO dies.

I’m not going to have a debate about a family member of a fellow board member. But you brought my name into this part of the discussion just to be an ass.

I think Brad did what he thought was in the best interest of his mom. I hope she continues to enjoy a good healthy and long life.

For someone who purports to care about the vulnerable, you fail mention his mom. I think you are more concerned with demonizing the brother than protecting the mother.

[gounion]

I’m not going to have a debate about a family member of a fellow board member. But you brought my name into this part of the discussion just to be an ass.

I think Brad did what he thought was in the best interest of his mom. I hope she continues to enjoy a good healthy and long life.

For someone who purports to care about the vulnerable, you fail mention his mom. I think you are more concerned with demonizing the brother than protecting the mother.

His brother doesn't give a shit about his mom. It's obvious. And you don't either. You both deny the deadliness of the virus, hell, you even deny it's very existence - it's just "bad flu" to you idiots. You don't understand how viruses such as COVID are spread. You think telling people "at risk" should just stay at home - not thinking about the next step, their relatives bringing it home to them.

I remember the school board meeting I attended where a young student talked about his at-risk brother, and his grandmother that died from COVID:

Anti-maskers were caught on camera laughing at a Tennessee school board meeting as a teen spoke about his late grandmother who died from COVID-19 last year.

Grady Knox, a junior at Central Magnet School in Murfreesboro, was among the dozens of speakers addressing a possible school mask mandate Tuesday at the Rutherford County school board meeting.

Knox’s heartfelt speech was interrupted by laughter from anti-mask activists when he mentioned that his grandmother was one of the estimated 375,000 Americans who died from covid in 2020.

“This time last year my grandmother, who was a former teacher at the Rutherford County School System, died of covid because someone wasn’t wearing a mask,” Knox said during his speech, a moment that drew laughter from anti-maskers in the audience.

Several women holding “Let our kids smile” signs behind Knox were caught on camera grinning and laughing, causing Knox to briefly pause his speech.

“This is an avoidable issue,” Knox said as he finished his speech, which also drew cheers and applause. “And by not wearing masks in schools, it’s irresponsible.”

And Joe, you don't give a shit who dies. But by GOD, whether it's a million or a hundred million, you don't want to wear a mask because they are "hot and uncomfortable". I say you're a wuss. You should see the masks I had to wear when painting in the aircraft factory. You never could have handled it, you're such a wuss.

[ZoWie]

It's not about Brad's mother. It's about common sense health precautions. The same thing happened in 1918. They de facto declared the pandemic over but it wasn't. That's why you can't get good statistics. That and war censorship.

As a result, 1918 data is unreliable. Now we have reliable data, but unreliable public discourse. Different problem, same effect. The small minority of assholes screws life up for everyone else.

Plus ça change...............

[gounion]

It's not about Brad's mother. It's about common sense health precautions. The same thing happened in 1918. They de facto declared the pandemic over but it wasn't. That's why you can't get good statistics. That and war censorship.

As a result, 1918 data is unreliable. Now we have reliable data, but unreliable public discourse. Different problem, same effect. The small minority of assholes screws life up for everyone else.

Plus ça change...............

The right no longer believes in reality. They have been fed a hate-fueled fantasy by the right, and they believe that. Reality and facts and medical science no longer matter to them. Just their ideology.

[ZoWie]

The big difference between 1918 and now is that in 1918 we were still legally at war, having declared it by congressional vote the way they used to do, and the government legally censored the news. They had a war information board, which of course wanted information to concentrate on the war.

The fringe declared masking to be a Bolshevik conspiracy to suffocate America and allow the communists to take over, and people got it by word of mouth and believed it.

I agree with Psaki that we once again have a situation where word of mouth is taken for truth, thanks to social media and their ad-driven AI algorithms. The difference is that this time the mainstream media tell it like it is regarding the pandemic, but no one's listening because after all the real truth is on some net platform that is optimized to drive audiences to ad views.

[JoeMemphis]

His brother doesn't give a shit about his mom. It's obvious. And you don't either. You both deny the deadliness of the virus, hell, you even deny it's very existence - it's just "bad flu" to you idiots. You don't understand how viruses such as COVID are spread. You think telling people "at risk" should just stay at home - not thinking about the next step, their relatives bringing it home to them.

I remember the school board meeting I attended where a young student talked about his at-risk brother, and his grandmother that died from COVID:



And Joe, you don't give a shit who dies. But by GOD, whether it's a million or a hundred million, you don't want to wear a mask because they are "hot and uncomfortable". I say you're a wuss. You should see the masks I had to wear when painting in the aircraft factory. You never could have handled it, you're such a wuss.

As I said, I am not going to have a debate about a fellow members family. You can if you choose.

[ZoWie]

Two reasons why the US leads the world with one million covid dead:

1. Our statistics are more accurate than many other countries. South Africa and China come to mind.

2. The previous president said it was no big deal, at one point even commenting offhand that drinking bleach might work. He doesn't even believe that any more, but it doesn't matter because the true believers did the rest, now they own the debate because of the inherent irresponsibility and dishonesty of the platforms on which it is conducted.

[gounion]

As I said, I am not going to have a debate about a fellow members family. You can if you choose.

No One forced you to post anything. Yet here you are

[JoeMemphis]

It's not about Brad's mother. It's about common sense health precautions. The same thing happened in 1918. They de facto declared the pandemic over but it wasn't. That's why you can't get good statistics. That and war censorship.

As a result, 1918 data is unreliable. Now we have reliable data, but unreliable public discourse. Different problem, same effect. The small minority of assholes screws life up for everyone else.

Plus ça change...............

It is about common sense. Lots of things have changed in Medicine since 1918. We know a whole lot more about virology and filtration and a number of other things. We have much better communications and data and the ability to analyze all that information much more quickly. That’s how we knew very early who was most at risk. That’s also how we knew who was low risk. All I have suggested is a more targeted approach whereby we protect those at high risk instead of asking the entire population to behave as if everyone was high risk. Common sense would or should tell you that’s an unrealistic expectation in this country.

[gounion]

It is about common sense. Lots of things have changed in Medicine since 1918. We know a whole lot more about virology and filtration and a number of other things. We have much better communications and data and the ability to analyze all that information much more quickly. That’s how we knew very early who was most at risk. That’s also how we knew who was low risk. All I have suggested is a more targeted approach whereby we protect those at high risk instead of asking the entire population to behave as if everyone was high risk. Common sense would or should tell you that’s an unrealistic expectation in this country.

No your ideology has nothing to do with common sense. It is about greed and lack of caring for huma life.

[ZoWie]

You would divide the population into risk groups, and oppress the ones of high risk, forcing them to institutionalize or live like hermits at home, cut off from the social support system.

Spoken like a true neoconservative. Conservatives see no problem with what sometimes gets called ableism, where the society is for the strong and it is the duty of the weak to isolate or, better yet, go away and die. In ancient times they'd leave them out in the woods or put them to the sword. Problem solved. Those kind of solutions, if now a bit slower and more subtle, still appeal to the conservative mind set.

I find it truly mindblowing that a simple public health precaution, wearing masks in crowded poorly ventilated spaces, became a big enough issue to merit blocking highways and holding cities hostage. We live in very unsettling times.

Your mileage seems to vary. So be it. It's a free country.............................

[JoeMemphis]

No your ideology has nothing to do with common sense. It is about greed and lack of caring for huma life.

[gounion]

Translation: “I’ve got nothin’!”

[ZoWie]

Inference: we live in scary times.

[JoeMemphis]

You would divide the population into risk groups, and oppress the ones of high risk, forcing them to institutionalize or live like hermits at home, cut off from the social support system.

Spoken like a true neoconservative. Conservatives see no problem with what sometimes gets called ableism, where the society is for the strong and it is the duty of the weak to isolate or, better yet, go away and die. In ancient times they'd leave them out in the woods or put them to the sword. Problem solved. Those kind of solutions, if now a bit slower and more subtle, still appeal to the conservative mind set.

I find it truly mindblowing that a simple public health precaution, wearing masks in crowded poorly ventilated spaces, became a big enough issue to merit blocking highways and holding cities hostage. We live in very unsettling times.

Your mileage seems to vary. So be it. It's a free country.............................

We divided the population into risk groups when we rolled out vaccinations. Should we have waited until we had doses for everybody. We divided the population into groups calling some essential and others non essential. Did you take an issue with that? Seems to me to target your best efforts and resources on those people most at risk is better than trying to get 320 million people to do what you want. Common sense would tell you that the people most at risk need the support, appreciate the support and are far more likely to follow the protocols consistently that a 20 to 30 something who is healthy.

The reality is that people didn’t wear effective masks and that was further exacerbated by the fact that they did not wear them properly. And people noticed all this. People noticed when the folks who were pushing these rules didn’t follow their own protocols. People questioned stupid rules like wearing a mask while walking 20 feet to your table and then taking the mask off to eat for the next hour. I guess you don’t spew virus while sitting down.

I don’t think all the masking and all the restrictive measures made all that much difference. Social distancing, staying home if you were ill and vaccination did more to end/slow the pandemic than anything. When there were surges in 2021 we didn’t go back to the restrictive measures. Why? If they were so effective, why didn’t we go back to them?

[JoeMemphis]

Translation: “I’ve got nothin’!”

I agree. You don’t.

[gounion]

We divided the population into risk groups when we rolled out vaccinations. Should we have waited until we had doses for everybody. We divided the population into groups calling some essential and others non essential. Did you take an issue with that? Seems to me to target your best efforts and resources on those people most at risk is better than trying to get 320 million people to do what you want. Common sense would tell you that the people most at risk need the support, appreciate the support and are far more likely to follow the protocols consistently that a 20 to 30 something who is healthy.

Healthy people of 20 to 30 died too. And some had terrible side effects. Some are debilitated to this day. But you ignore those facts, don't you?

The reality is that people didn’t wear effective masks and that was further exacerbated by the fact that they did not wear them properly. And people noticed all this. People noticed when the folks who were pushing these rules didn’t follow their own protocols. People questioned stupid rules like wearing a mask while walking 20 feet to your table and then taking the mask off to eat for the next hour. I guess you don’t spew virus while sitting down.

And there was a reason that restaurants were shut down for a long time. We didn't eat out for over a year. We also stopped this winter.

I don’t think all the masking and all the restrictive measures made all that much difference. Social distancing, staying home if you were ill and vaccination did more to end/slow the pandemic than anything. When there were surges in 2021 we didn’t go back to the restrictive measures. Why? If they were so effective, why didn’t we go back to them?

"You don't think".

You should have stopped your sentence there. You don't have a fucking clue.

[gounion]

I agree. You don’t.

You're the one that can't respond. Not me. Own it.