Is this the high-water mark of our freedoms? Must-see.

[JoeMemphis]

But that's YOUR argument. You never argue FOR the GOP - you just argue against the Dems.

You are a class-A hypocrite! Are you really that self-unaware?

I’m not the guy who demonizes people based on who they do or do not vote for. That’s you GoU. I don’t give a fuck one way or the other who you choose to vote for. That’s up to you. I’ve never tried to change anyone’s mind. I’m not selling an ideology. You are. You are just pissed cause you only have one very limited pitch line.

[gounion]

I’m not the guy who demonizes people based on who they do or do not vote for. That’s you GoU. I don’t give a fuck one way or the other who you choose to vote for. That’s up to you. I’ve never tried to change anyone’s mind. I’m not selling an ideology. You are. You are just pissed cause you only have one very limited pitch line.

This is a political message board. If you don't want to discuss politics, this really isn't the place for you, now, is it?

So don't bitch - that's what they board is about. But hey, that's the only argument you've got left, isn't it?

And yes, you're correct - you're selling AGAINST. You're here AGAINST the Dems. You NEVER make the case how the GOP will make life better. You NEVER defend who you vote for - mostly because, as always, you're ignorant of what they stand for or what they are doing. But you hate the Dems, so you'll vote for anyone else. Oh, you SAY you didn't vote for Trump, but then, you vote for everyone who are his minions, who do everything he tells them to do. This is Donald Trump's party and you vote for it. So the bullshit you're selling here isn't being bought.

Oh, and yes, you ARE selling an ideology. You are the corporate man. That's what rules you and that's what you're here to defend.

[JoeMemphis]

This is a political message board. If you don't want to discuss politics, this really isn't the place for you, now, is it?

So don't bitch - that's what they board is about. But hey, that's the only argument you've got left, isn't it?

And yes, you're correct - you're selling AGAINST. You're here AGAINST the Dems. You NEVER make the case how the GOP will make life better. You NEVER defend who you vote for - mostly because, as always, you're ignorant of what they stand for or what they are doing. But you hate the Dems, so you'll vote for anyone else. Oh, you SAY you didn't vote for Trump, but then, you vote for everyone who are his minions, who do everything he tells them to do. This is Donald Trump's party and you vote for it. So the bullshit you're selling here isn't being bought.

Oh, and yes, you ARE selling an ideology. You are the corporate man. That's what rules you and that's what you're here to defend.

I’ve explained to you numerous times how and why I make voting decisions. Multiple times. The thing is that if you don’t hear what you want to hear then you just ignore it. It doesn’t mean I haven’t addressed it. It’s because you are too ignorant to understand.

I have no problem discussing political issues. Discussing. I’m not into selling you or anyone else on conservatism. Do what yo want. Vote for who you want. Believe what you choose to believe. You are the one who gets into demonizing people over their political beliefs. So own it. You start most of these flame wars over ideology. Not me.

[Drak]

Joe is just here to play games. Weird that he comes to a political message board. He never backs up anything he says with facts and he ignores links. When he says he’s not about ideology he’s displaying his utter lack of self awareness card.


I remember years ago when I asked him who he voted for when he was playing his both sides game, and he said it was none of my business. On a political message board via an anon account? I guess that would ruin his game.


Joe Memphis: The Dems want to control our lives. But I’m going to vote for a Trump duplicate authoritarian in Florida who tells businesses how they’re allowed to operate. I’m going to vote for people who attack the gay community. I’m going to vote for people who want to ban literature and who want to control women’s autonomy over their own bodies.


Joe Memphis: I don’t care about Jan 6. I don’t care about Trump or what he’s done, or the heaping pile of corruption and potential crimes he’s committed.

Joe Memphis: Let’s get to the bottom of Benghazi. I can’t wait for the Afghanistan trials. Uranium One! Her emails. Hunter Biden. Parroting attacks on Fauci, etc.

Joe and Glenn are all about cheering for a team and brand. That’s all that matters.

[gounion]

I’ve explained to you numerous times how and why I make voting decisions. Multiple times. The thing is that if you don’t hear what you want to hear then you just ignore it. It doesn’t mean I haven’t addressed it. It’s because you are too ignorant to understand.

I have no problem discussing political issues. Discussing. I’m not into selling you or anyone else on conservatism. Do what yo want. Vote for who you want. Believe what you choose to believe. You are the one who gets into demonizing people over their political beliefs. So own it. You start most of these flame wars over ideology. Not me.

No, sorry, you're wrong. You've got into it with many on this board, including ProfX.

I just call you on your passive/aggressive bullshit. You're the one that always runs from taking a stance. Runs from questions. It's hilarious to watch - but I never will let you get away with it.

Yes, you're fully supportive of Gov. DeSantas and his anti-freedom agenda in Florida. You complain about "Medicare Fraud" but you'll be voting for and supporting Rick Scott, the man who was in charge of the biggest Medicare Fraud in history.

And it's hilarious to watch you say we only make arguments against, when you've ALWAYS made that exact argument, and have never shown us how giving all our votes to the Trump Party will make our lives better.

[gounion]

Joe is just here to play games. Weird that he comes to a political message board. He never backs up anything he says with facts and he ignores links. When he says he’s not about ideology he’s displaying his utter lack of self awareness card.


I remember years ago when I asked him who he voted for when he was playing his both sides game, and he said it was none of my business. On a political message board via an anon account? I guess that would ruin his game.


Joe Memphis: The Dems want to control our lives. But I’m going to vote for a Trump duplicate authoritarian in Florida who tells businesses how they’re allowed to operate. I’m going to vote for people who attack the gay community. I’m going to vote for people who want to ban literature and who want to control women’s autonomy over their own bodies.


Joe Memphis: I don’t care about Jan 6. I don’t care about Trump or what he’s done, or the heaping pile of corruption and potential crimes he’s committed.

Joe Memphis: Let’s get to the bottom of Benghazi. I can’t wait for the Afghanistan trials. Uranium One! Her emails. Hunter Biden. Parroting attacks on Fauci, etc.

Joe and Glenn are all about cheering for a team and brand. That’s all that matters.

Fantastic analysis, Drak. Which is why Joe will pretend this post doesn't exist and won't respond to it.

[carmenjonze]

I seems to me that folks who make those complaints only care when they feel they are restricted.

LGBTQs do not merely “feel” restricted. Samesex marriage has not even been legal for a decade, serving in the military, just barely so.

Conservative lawmakers, including the ones you personally put in office are attacking our trans children and families and parents using legal means as we speak.

We are restricted on the basis of gender, sex, and sexuality because conservatives have NEVER let up your vicious legal attacks on our personhood.

Watch the video.

They aren’t all that concerned about similar restrictions when it applies to others. Teaching the “wrong” stuff, reading the “wrong” books. Who gets to say what’s the “wrong” stuff? Academia? A study somewhere? The parents?

Conservatives and your government actors are making the laws around reading the wrong books, and are removing those books from curricula, school libraries, public libraries, and now Barnes & Noble.

LGBTQs have never, EVER restricted cis and hetero people in this way.

Never.

Everyone is for choice as long as “they” get to decide.[/quite]



Yes it’s called personal and physical autonomy.

Supposedly you conservatives invented individualism.

Strange, that the same people are the ones with the history of telling my parents and grandparents could and couldn’t sit on a bus or get a drink of water. :problem:
yes, the very “parents” whose children are targeted with your repressive anti-crt/anti-woke laws that you’re now labeling live and let live would like a choice to not be criminalized for supporting their trans kids, or reading a book banned by undereducated confederates.

Watch the video.


It JUST became illegal to fire a person simply for being gay in 2020, the last two years.

No person in this country has EVER been fired for being heterosexual, having a traditional family, having a partner of the opposite sex. For LGBTQs, these conditions were mandated by policy and law up until 2020.

Watch the video.

Sit down.

[Drak]

Fantastic analysis, Drak. Which is why Joe will pretend this post doesn't exist and won't respond to it.

I guess Joe citing a poll (without a link) that 75 percent of voters think the country is headed in the wrong direction is one of Joe’s examples of, “thinking for himself.” That and his conspiracy theory posts about Uranium One, Durham, etc.

[JoeMemphis]

No, sorry, you're wrong. You've got into it with many on this board, including ProfX.

I just call you on your passive/aggressive bullshit. You're the one that always runs from taking a stance. Runs from questions. It's hilarious to watch - but I never will let you get away with it.

Yes, you're fully supportive of Gov. DeSantas and his anti-freedom agenda in Florida. You complain about "Medicare Fraud" but you'll be voting for and supporting Rick Scott, the man who was in charge of the biggest Medicare Fraud in history.

And it's hilarious to watch you say we only make arguments against, when you've ALWAYS made that exact argument, and have never shown us how giving all our votes to the Trump Party will make our lives better.

I don’t think I ever mentioned DeSantis. As for Scott, he was investigated by Janet Reno. I doubt you have a better perspective or better information and certainly a better command of the law and the facts. I never said that case wasn’t worthy of investigation.

People will vote in November based on the current direction of the country and how they feel their personal situation has improved under current management. That’s what you should worry about.

[gounion]

I don’t think I ever mentioned DeSantis. As for Scott, he was investigated by Janet Reno. I doubt you have a better perspective or better information and certainly a better command of the law and the facts. I never said that case wasn’t worthy of investigation.

People will vote in November based on the current direction of the country and how they feel their personal situation has improved under current management. That’s what you should worry about.

Why don't you worry about YOU, Joe. But tell me how the GOP is going to make things better.

And no, Janey Reno never investigated Rick Scott. That's a lie. Care to try again?

[JoeMemphis]

Why don't you worry about YOU, Joe. But tell me how the GOP is going to make things better.

And no, Janey Reno never investigated Rick Scott. That's a lie. Care to try again?

The DOJ investigated the case you mentioned.

I don’t worry about me. I wonder why YOU worry so much about me. Should I worry?

I’m not attempting to sell the GOP. You are attempting to sell your party. I couldn’t care less about your party affiliation. I like policy discussions.

[Drak]

I guess Joe citing a poll (without a link) that 75 percent of voters think the country is headed in the wrong direction is one of Joe’s examples of, “thinking for himself.” That and his conspiracy theory posts about Uranium One, Durham, etc.

Joe claims he saw a poll (without a link) that 75 percent of voters felt the country was currently headed in the wrong direction.

Yet, when Trump was President and voters felt the country was headed in the wrong direction, Joe never said a word. He claimed he didn’t care about Trump, even though he was the leader of the most powerful country in the world. He constantly dismissed what Trump did and shrugged. I’m sure we all remember that.

Nope. He never spoke about negative polling for Trump, like this:

https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-worl ... ans-think/

that shows 80 percent of Americans felt the country under Trump was headed in the wrong direction. And there are multiple polls like this throughout Trump’s presidency.

Yeah, but Joe’s not about ideology at all

[ProfX]

So I’m not all that convinced by this argument on personal freedom and choice from people who didn’t give a damn about any of that in the last two years.

I have never been trying to convince you. I'm only trying to reach people that can be reached by logic and reason. My principles are entirely consistent, and I've explained why that's the case.

Interpret as you wish.

[gounion]

The DOJ investigated the case you mentioned.

I don’t worry about me. I wonder why YOU worry so much about me. Should I worry?

I’m not attempting to sell the GOP. You are attempting to sell your party. I couldn’t care less about your party affiliation. I like policy discussions.

The DOJ investigate the case - not Scott. Scott was forced out before the fine was paid - the largest in history.

He was in charge. Yet you will be voting for him.

So you say you like policy discussions. Let’s talk about what Dems stand for. They stand for the right for a woman to make her own medical decisions. They stand for the right to be who you want to be, whether it’s straight gay or trans. They stand for legal contraception, and to keep the government out of our bedrooms.

How about you Joe?

[JoeMemphis]

I have never been trying to convince you. I'm only trying to reach people that can be reached by logic and reason.

Interpret as you wish.

Whose logic? Whose reason? Interpret as you wish.

[Libertas]

The DOJ investigate the case - not Scott. Scott was forced out before the fine was paid - the largest in history.

He was in charge. Yet you will be voting for him.

So you say you like policy discussions. Let’s talk about what Dems stand for. They stand for the right for a woman to make her own medical decisions. They stand for the right to be who you want to be, whether it’s straight gay or trans. They stand for legal contraception, and to keep the government out of our bedrooms.

How about you Joe?

Cons WORSHIP scott for stealing from the govt.

[Drak]

Whose logic? Whose reason? Interpret as you wish.

“I know you are but what am I!”

[ProfX]

There is nothing inconsistent about my position on personal freedom or autonomy.

When I see a rational argument about what is inconsistent about it, as opposed to just an accusation, I'll be interested in answering.

The argument "if government can force you to wear a mask during a pandemic, it can become a totalitarian monster that can force you to do anything" is NONSENSE Joe. It's irrational and doesn't make sense.

[JoeMemphis]

There is nothing inconsistent about my position on personal freedom or autonomy.

When I see a rational argument about what is inconsistent about it, as opposed to just an accusation, I'll be interested in answering.

The argument "if government can force you to wear a mask during a pandemic, it can become a totalitarian monster that can force you to do anything" is NONSENSE Joe. It's irrational and doesn't make sense.

Well that’s a great point only I didn’t make that argument. You exaggerate the point and then call it irrational. That’s nonsense. That’s irrational.

If you want to argue the government has such rights in a pandemic because it affects the rights of others. Okay. I see the point. But I will also point out to you that is the same argument being made by those folks who oppose abortion. They argue that their right to limit abortion is because the woman’s “right to choose” may dent rights to an unborn child.

So do we have a right to make our own medical decisions or not or do we also have to consider the impact such decisions have on the rights of others?

[gounion]

Well that’s a great point only I didn’t make that argument. You exaggerate the point and then call it irrational. That’s nonsense. That’s irrational.

If you want to argue the government has such rights in a pandemic because it affects the rights of others. Okay. I see the point. But I will also point out to you that is the same argument being made by those folks who oppose abortion. They argue that their right to limit abortion is because the woman’s “right to choose” may dent rights to an unborn child.

So do we have a right to make our own medical decisions or not or do we also have to consider the impact such decisions have on the rights of others?

So the mother is forced to risk her health for another being? For a one-called creature? Go ahead Joe make that argument. And it’s not about life, it’s about sexual control of women. That’s why contraception is next on their list.

[ProfX]

Well that’s a great point only I didn’t make that argument. You exaggerate the point and then call it irrational. That’s nonsense. That’s irrational.

You posted this on May 7th. Your exact words. This is why I started talking about government banning my Hawaiian shirt.

If the government thru mandates or heavy handed coercion can bend you to their will and force you to get a shot, force you to close your business, force you to wear a mask or a but ugly Hawaiian shirt, force your kids to wear masks for two years, there isn’t much they can’t make you do.

BTW: no government never forced any business to close permanently during the pandemic. I know, I know, you will argue ordering them closed temporarily still had that impact. And perhaps it did on some. All I can say, though, is a lot of businesses that closed temporarily, opened again once the lockdowns were lifted. So, no, they were not "forced to close". Not permanently, anyway.

Also, no one in America was forced to get a vaccine, either. That private or public employers had a requirement is not a government mandate on all.

Yes there were LOCAL mask mandates. Often imposed in local cities. No, I do not see them as creeping totalitarianism. Sorry.

But I will also point out to you that is the same argument being made by those folks who oppose abortion. They argue that their right to limit abortion is because the woman’s “right to choose” may dent rights to an unborn child.

That point is dealt with in Roe, which recognizes that the developing fetus gains greater rights, primarily after the threshold of viability. Roe attempts to balance the rights of the mother with the rights of the fetus. I find it a quite adequate compromise. Elective abortion is reduced in the 2nd trimester, and impossible in the 3rd.

I'm open to rational arguments as to why it's not a good balance. Haven't seen many. I'll wait.

[JoeMemphis]

So the mother is forced to risk her health for another being? For a one-called creature? Go ahead Joe make that argument. And it’s not about life, it’s about sexual control of women. That’s why contraception is next on their list.

I’m not the one arguing that people shouldn’t be able to control their medical care.

As far as sexual control of women talking point. A whole lot of the folks in the prochoice movement are women. Funny you never mention that.

[gounion]

I’m not the one arguing that people shouldn’t be able to control their medical care.

As far as sexual control of women talking point. A whole lot of the folks in the prochoice movement are women. Funny you never mention that.

Women who want to force other women to live by their religious views.

But you wanted me to tell you what Dems stand for.

That’s what we stand for. We stand for that freedom. You SAY you stand for freedom yet you vote against it.

Tell us why the state should decide about a woman’s health and her right to decide for herself. And why the state should make contraception illegal. And why the state should go after gay and trans people.

[JoeMemphis]

You posted this on May 7th. Your exact words. This is why I started talking about government banning my Hawaiian shirt.



BTW: no government never forced any business to close permanently during the pandemic. I know, I know, you will argue ordering them closed temporarily still had that impact. And perhaps it did on some. All I can say, though, is a lot of businesses that closed temporarily, opened again once the lockdowns were lifted. So, no, they were not "forced to close". Not permanently, anyway.

Also, no one in America was forced to get a vaccine, either. That private or public employers had a requirement is not a government mandate on all.

Yes there were LOCAL mask mandates. Often imposed in local cities. No, I do not see them as creeping totalitarianism. Sorry.



That point is dealt with in Roe, which recognizes that the developing fetus gains greater rights, primarily after the threshold of viability. Roe attempts to balance the rights of the mother with the rights of the fetus. I find it a quite adequate compromise. Elective abortion is reduced in the 2nd trimester, and impossible in the 3rd.

I'm open to rational arguments as to why it's not a good balance. Haven't seen many. I'll wait.

Many businesses that were forced to close for extended periods or were forced to operate below their break even had to close. Restaurants, small retail etc. Many never reopened. Some did. Many did not. So much for their right to choose. So yeah. They were forced to close.

People were forced to get vaccines. I know for a fact that folks who refused in NYC were terminated. Plus the government pushing businesses to employ mandates doesn’t really support this whole notion of the individuals right to choose. If I’m the individual that doesn’t want to get vaccinated and I have to jump thru all kinds of hoops in order to go to work, you are telling me the government didn’t mandate it but the government sure as hell pushed the business to mandate it. What’s the difference at that point?

As far as Roe, as you and I have discussed before, I don’t have an issue with viability under Roe but not everyone agrees with that standard. Not everyone on the left and not everyone on the right. It’s the same with vaccines and masking. Not everyone agrees. That’s the sticking point when discussing whether my decisions over control over one’s medical decisions in relation to the rights of another.

[JoeMemphis]

Women who want to force other women to live by their religious views.

But you wanted me to tell you what Dems stand for.

That’s what we stand for. We stand for that freedom. You SAY you stand for freedom yet you vote against it.

Tell us why the state should decide about a woman’s health and her right to decide for herself. And why the state should make contraception illegal. And why the state should go after gay and trans people.

And yet I have never voted for or against Roe. Neither have you. So this is about what policies we agree with. Not about something neither of us has ever voted for or against.

As for the rest, I favor allowing people the right to live as they choose. I said that in my earlier response and yet you ask the same question once again. Do I need to type it out in caps or type it slower.