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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:30 am 
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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:05 pm 
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What you or I might percive as racist speech is just as protected as what joe six-pack might perceive as expression disrespectful to the flag, veterans, and the country in general. Those who would infringe on Clevenger's free expression are no better than those who would infringe on Kaepernick's, or Serrano's, or Gellar's free expression.

That's how it works. Anything less is an assault on the 1st Amendment. You're either an advocate for the most important of our rights, or you're not. Whether you like all the words, or not.



Who is infringing on speech, anywhere? How is he being infringed?

What point did this racist speech become infringed? Please answer ........

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:07 pm 
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Person A : I think all white people are ignorant cocksuckers and are inferior to all other human beings including dogs

Person B: Fuck you, you are wrong, I hate you for saying that, fuck you, you are wrong, fuck you

Persons c-m: Boy , that first guys is a racist (technically speaking, if this is a conversation in USA first guy isnt a racist, he is a bigot, big difference and for another conversation)


Show me where speech is infringed.

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:09 pm 
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Who is infringing on speech, anywhere? How is he being infringed?

What point did this racist speech become infringed? Please answer ........


There's pressure on major league baseball to kick him out of the league. You want to have your job threatened because somebody doesn't like you referring to republicans as white racist scrum?

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:19 pm 
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There is no unlimited freedom on speech as the Supreme Court has ruled. For almost everything you say or post, freedom of speech isn't the real issue. The real issue is the acceptance of responsibility for what you said or posted and the consequences that goes with it. Just as someone has the right to say/post something that same right exists for someone else to say/post disagreement. Likewise, if you're employed or belong to an organization and they disagree with you they may have the right to fire you or remove you from their organization because they don't want people to associate your beliefs/thoughts with their business or organization.

Saying or posting things brings with it a personal responsibility and acknowledgement there could be legal consequences for doing that.

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:44 pm 
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www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com

Sorry

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:44 pm 
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There is no unlimited freedom on speech as the Supreme Court has ruled. For almost everything you say or post, freedom of speech isn't the real issue. The real issue is the acceptance of responsibility for what you said or posted and the consequences that goes with it. Just as someone has the right to say/post something that same right exists for someone else to say/post disagreement. Likewise, if you're employed or belong to an organization and they disagree with you they may have the right to fire you or remove you from their organization because they don't want people to associate your beliefs/thoughts with their business or organization.

Saying or posting things brings with it a personal responsibility and acknowledgement there could be legal consequences for doing that.


Some of us argue for actual free expression. You can't threaten violence, you can't holler "fire" in a crowded theater.

As far as employment is concerned, it's an "at will" country. A boss can fire any employee without cause. And there's nothing anybody can do about it unless one is a member of a protected employment class such as:

Race.

Color.

Religion or creed.

National origin or ancestry.

Sex.

Age.

Physical or mental disability.

Veteran status.

Genetic information.

Citizenship.

You can sue if you believe you're a member of a protected class who has been fired as related to your protected class. Good luck with proving it in court.

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:18 pm 
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From the album that set all the ridiculous white conservatives' nerves on edge after it was debuted at a halftime show. Well, again (doesn't take much).

www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


Middle fingers up
Boy, bye.

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:41 pm 
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Do MLB players have morality clauses in their contracts?

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:54 pm 
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The chairman is offering his apologies. He has many black friends and Hispanic friends.

Chairman apologizes for racist comments, blames politics - FOX 5 Atlanta

Quote:
Longtime Douglas County Commission Chairman Tom Worthan told the FOX 5 I-Team he was only being a politician when he was caught on tape making racist comments about certain African-American candidates for local office.

...

Here's a portion of Dodd's recording:

Dodd: What are we going to do if Pounds wins and that girl wins? What's going to happen? Be honest?
Worthan: Probably going to have to pack up and get out of here you know?
Dodd: I mean what's going to happen? Be honest. It's just me and the lamp post.
Worthan: Well, do you know of another government that's more black that's successful? They bankrupt you."

Dodd asked again about sheriff candidate Tim Pounds.

Dodd: If Tim was to get it, what do you think would happen?
Worthan: I'm afraid he would put a bunch of blacks in leadership positions.

...

"How many more times have you talked as a politician to other people in Douglas County?" I asked. "Hopefully, I haven't said that before," Worthan responded. "I have many black friends, Hispanic friends and no, this is something that I should not have said. I certainly apologize to anybody that I might have hurt their feelings... that's not the way I feel."


:problem: it never is. Except when it is.

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:25 am 
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Look at this dumb terrorist

Carl Paladino, a Trump Ally, Says Racist Remarks About Obamas Were Sent in Error - NYT

:roll:

Quote:
In his statement on Tuesday, Mr. Paladino apologized to the “minority community,” and said he received the survey at an emotional moment, after listening to Mr. Obama speak about the humanitarian disaster in Aleppo,


blah blah ho hum. More classic white conservative personal responsibility in action. :problem:

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:50 am 
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Insane that he'd think that way...but that's a con for you. "It's ok to be racist as long as you only say it to friends."

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:53 am 
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Pamela Taylor and Beverly Whaling are sorry, and both are looking for new jobs.

Taylor in a post called Michelle Obama an ape in heels. Whaling, who approved of Taylor’s post in another post, resigned as Mayor of Clay.

Now it has come up that Taylor was mismanaging a so called non profit which contracts with the state and takes government funds to provide services to elderly folks in Clay, and now she has lost her job.

Taylor says "she was referring to her own opinion about Obama’s attractiveness, not the color of her skin."

She says "that the heated public response to her Facebook post had become a "hate crime against me.” "

Whaling says, “I was referring to my day being made for change in the White House! I am truly sorry for any hard feeling this may have caused! Those who know me know that I’m not of any way racist! Again, I would like to apologize for this getting out of hand.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... d8088b9a55

They're not sorry about what they did. They're sorry they lost their jobs. Are sorry it got out of hand. Are sorry that they were misunderstood. Are sorry it has become a "hate crime against me.”

They're sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:04 am 
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Pamela Taylor and Beverly Whaling are sorry, and both are looking for new jobs.

Taylor in a post called Michelle Obama an ape in heels. Whaling, who approved of Taylor’s post in another post, resigned as Mayor of Clay.

Now it has come up that Taylor was mismanaging a so called non profit which contracts with the state and takes government funds to provide services to elderly folks in Clay, and now she has lost her job.

Taylor says "she was referring to her own opinion about Obama’s attractiveness, not the color of her skin."

She says "that the heated public response to her Facebook post had become a "hate crime against me.” "

Whaling says, “I was referring to my day being made for change in the White House! I am truly sorry for any hard feeling this may have caused! Those who know me know that I’m not of any way racist! Again, I would like to apologize for this getting out of hand.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... d8088b9a55

They're not sorry about what they did. They're sorry they lost their jobs. Are sorry it got out of hand. Are sorry that they were misunderstood. Are sorry it has become a "hate crime against me.”

They're sorry.


They never are.

Funny how they never think to apologize to the people they spew this verbal garbage about.

:problem:

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:40 am 
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Insane that he'd think that way...but that's a con for you. "It's ok to be racist as long as you only say it to friends."


Hey! My friends are NOT racist and they laughed at it !!

So it cannot be raceist so neither am I !!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:49 pm 
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These vocal racists losing jobs will get them all back and more, soon.

Open racism, open bigotry, openly discriminating will be legal and encouraged, very soon.

But I honest to GOD think it is small potatoes compared to the single most unstable person on the planet having 10 thousand nukes.

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:26 pm 
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These vocal racists losing jobs will get them all back and more, soon.

Open racism, open bigotry, openly discriminating will be legal and encouraged, very soon.


It seems to me Libby, that your comment here addresses two different things. Expression and action. The open expression of racism and bigotry, has been argued before the SCOTUS a number of times and the court continues to protect speech, however disgusting, unless the speech is found to be an attempt to incite others to illegal acts, such as vandalism, interpersonal violence, or illegal discrimination based on race or ethnicity. Or to otherwise promote a situation where bodily harm could be done to others. (Like shouting "fire", or "he's got a gun" etc.) The "imminent danger" test. I'm not sure about any cases heard by the court regarding psychological or emotional harm. Maybe somebody else has.

From Wikipedia:

Quote:
Supreme Court case law
Some limits on expression were contemplated by the framers and have been read into the Constitution by the Supreme Court (SCOTUS). In 1942, Justice Frank Murphy summarized the case law: "There are certain well-defined and limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise a Constitutional problem. These include the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous and the insulting or 'fighting' words – those which by their very utterances inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace."[83]

Traditionally, however, if the speech did not fall within one of the above categorical exceptions, it was protected speech. In 1969, the Supreme Court protected a Ku Klux Klan member’s speech and created the "imminent danger" test to determine on what grounds speech can be limited. The court ruled in Brandenburg v. Ohio that; "The constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a state to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force, or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."[84]

This test has been modified very little from its inception in 1969 and the formulation is still good law in the United States. Only speech that poses an imminent danger of unlawful action, where the speaker has the intention to incite such action and there is the likelihood that this will be the consequence of his or her speech, may be restricted and punished by that law.

In R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul, (1992), the issue of banning hate speech arose again when a gang of white people burned a cross in the front yard of a black family. The local ordinance in St. Paul, Minnesota, criminalized such expressions considered racist and the teenager was charged thereunder. Associate Justice Antonin Scalia, writing for the Supreme Court, held that the prohibition against hate speech was unconstitutional as it contravened the First Amendment. The Supreme Court struck down the ordinance. Scalia explicated the fighting words exception as follows: “The reason why fighting words are categorically excluded from the protection of the First Amendment is not that their content communicates any particular idea, but that their content embodies a particularly intolerable (and socially unnecessary) mode of expressing whatever idea the speaker wishes to convey”.[85] Because the hate speech ordinance was not concerned with the mode of expression, but with the content of expression, it was a violation of the freedom of speech. Thus, the Supreme Court embraced the idea that speech in general is permissible unless it will lead to imminent violence.[86] The opinion noted "This conduct, if proved, might well have violated various Minnesota laws against arson, criminal damage to property", among a number of others, none of which was charged, including threats to any person, not to only protected classes.

In 2011, the Supreme Court issued their ruling on Snyder v. Phelps, which concerned the right of the Westboro Baptist Church to protest with signs found offensive by many Americans. The issue presented was whether the 1st Amendment protected the expressions written on the signs. In an 8–1 decision the court sided with Phelps, the head of Westboro Baptist Church, thereby confirming their historically strong protection of freedom of speech, so long as it doesn't promote imminent violence. The Court explained, "speech deals with matters of public concern when it can 'be fairly considered as relating to any matter of political, social, or other concern to the community' or when it 'is a subject of general interest and of value and concern to the public."[87]

Societal implementation
In the 1980s and 1990s, more than 350 public universities adopted "speech codes" regulating discriminatory speech by faculty and students.[88] These codes have not fared well in the courts, where they are frequently overturned as violations of the First Amendment.[89] Debate over restriction of "hate speech" in public universities has resurfaced with the adoption of anti-harassment codes covering discriminatory speech.[90]

NTIA report
In 1992, Congress directed the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) to examine the role of telecommunications, including broadcast radio and television, cable television, public access television, and computer bulletin boards, in advocating or encouraging violent acts and the commission of hate crimes against designated persons and groups. The NTIA study investigated speech that fostered a climate of hatred and prejudice in which hate crimes may occur.[91] The study failed to link telecommunication to hate crimes, but did find that "individuals have used telecommunications to disseminate messages of hate and bigotry to a wide audience." Its recommendation was that the best way to fight hate speech was through additional speech promoting tolerance, as opposed to government regulation.[92][93]


I am a firm believer in the concept of "fighting words" however. If you're going to walk into a tavern on Kedzie or Elston Aves in the Polish Village after work and start telling polack jokes, you're looking to walk out with your nose under your ear. Back in January of 1969 I was in Marine boot camp and there were some hard feelings from the Christian guys that the Jews were able to go to a little building and have coffee, cigarettes and eat up a bunch of pastries made by the Jewish ladies for a couple of hours, while the Christians all had to sit in a big auditorium and not be "eyefucking the area" during church services on Sunday. One Klan asshole from Tennessee decided that he needed to let the "kike" know how much he didn't like it. I'm pretty sure I broke his nose. It was witnessed by the Platoon Commander (black Gunnery Sgt) who, when he picked the asshole up off the drill deck, told him he should consider himself lucky that the "fuckin' christ killing bagel eater didn't break your fuckin' back."

So I'm all for free speech...one just has to not be stupid about where and how one expresses one's distasteful opinions.

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:19 pm 
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The Latin phrase "In vino veritas" means "In wine, truth." Today, the American version would be "In private, truth." Paladino says he filled out a survey and sent it to a couple of friends not knowing he hit "reply to all." Sorry, but if you're sending something like that to friends then it shows exactly what you think.

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:24 pm 
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It seems to me Libby, that your comment here addresses two different things. Expression and action. The open expression of racism and bigotry, has been argued before the SCOTUS a number of times and the court continues to protect speech, however disgusting, unless the speech is found to be an attempt to incite others to illegal acts, such as vandalism, interpersonal violence, or illegal discrimination based on race or ethnicity. Or to otherwise promote a situation where bodily harm could be done to others. (Like shouting "fire", or "he's got a gun" etc.) The "imminent danger" test. I'm not sure about any cases heard by the court regarding psychological or emotional harm. Maybe somebody else has.

From Wikipedia:



I am a firm believer in the concept of "fighting words" however. If you're going to walk into a tavern on Kedzie or Elston Aves in the Polish Village after work and start telling polack jokes, you're looking to walk out with your nose under your ear. Back in January of 1969 I was in Marine boot camp and there were some hard feelings from the Christian guys that the Jews were able to go to a little building and have coffee, cigarettes and eat up a bunch of pastries made by the Jewish ladies for a couple of hours, while the Christians all had to sit in a big auditorium and not be "eyefucking the area" during church services on Sunday. One Klan asshole from Tennessee decided that he needed to let the "kike" know how much he didn't like it. I'm pretty sure I broke his nose. It was witnessed by the Platoon Commander (black Gunnery Sgt) who, when he picked the asshole up off the drill deck, told him he should consider himself lucky that the "fuckin' christ killing bagel eater didn't break your fuckin' back."

So I'm all for free speech...one just has to not be stupid about where and how one expresses one's distasteful opinions.


Firing someone from a job is a gray area for me, I am so pro workers rights that I will lean way over. If we arent wiped out by nukes, then I will get a kick out of watching the daily attack on workers and rights, within a year or two we will resemble Vietnam probably in that respect.

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:57 pm 
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Firing someone from a job is a gray area for me, I am so pro workers rights that I will lean way over. If we arent wiped out by nukes, then I will get a kick out of watching the daily attack on workers and rights, within a year or two we will resemble Vietnam probably in that respect.


Well...it's an "at will" employment culture, and has been for a long, long time. So unless one is in a protected class and has a good lawyer, or is a member of a really powerful union, there's not much one can do about a job termination. I've been there a couple of times...and nobody in government, including the US Department of Labor, under Obama or anybody else, really gives a shit.

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 9:10 pm 
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MS Rep. Karl Oliver issues statement on "lynching" post he made on Facebook - MS News Now

Quote:
The post said: “The destruction of these monuments, erected in the loving memory of our family and fellow Southern Americans, is both heinous and horrific. If the, and I use this term extremely loosely, “leadership” of Louisiana wishes to, in a Nazi-ish fashion, burn books or destroy historical monuments of OUR HISTORY, they should be LYNCHED! Let it be known, I will do all in my power to prevent this from happening in our State.”

A couple of his colleagues went ahead and hit "Like" on the post. It came to a head Monday morning, though, with leadership stepping in.


"I deeply regret that I chose this word, and I do not condone the actions I referenced [ even though I went to the trouble to hit CAPS LOCK to emphasize it ], nor do I believe them in my heart. I freely admit my choice of words was horribly wrong, and I humbly ask your forgiveness." :problem:

No.

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 9:13 pm 
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we know they want a war

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 9:35 pm 
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we know they want a war


Domestic terrorists. I can't think of a better term for these violent bigots. How many generations have they held public office?

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:32 am 
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Original thread is here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20446

Look at this stupid rightwinger

‘How else can a Kenyan creampuff get ahead?’ is just one of the disturbing tweets sent by this Trump Energy Department agency head - WP

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Quote:
“As a minority and member of the Jewish faith, I sincerely apologize for my disrespectful and offensive comments,” he wrote to The Washington Post. “These comments are inexcusable and I do not stand by them. Now, as a public servant, I hold myself to a higher standard, and I will work every day to better the lives of all Americans.”


Right.

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 Post subject: Re: They're sorry!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:31 am 
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I guess we don't believe people can really change, eh carmen? It's a problem for those in my business.

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