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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:40 pm 
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I wonder, of course, if maybe the U.S. hadn't so actively supported the Shah (and also done that Mossadegh stuff in the 50s), whether he would have been succeeded by a democratic regime rather than the Islamic revolution and the ayatollahs.

I suppose we will never know. It's one of many great what-if questions in history.


their version of Clinton-Trump

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:21 pm 
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I do not perceive Persia to be nearly as big a problem as Saudi Arabia....
The perspective of someone not a victim, or even under threat, of "Persian" adventurism, imperialism, oppression, or terror.

.... However, the bigger menace in the Middle East appears to be Saudi Arabia, with their Wahhabism and what not.
Not that I want to minimize the threat of Wahhabism, I don't. It too is a serious threat. But it is very much like the Shia' extremism directed by the Iran regime. One difference I see is that Iran is state driven (actually it theocratic...but the situations are more complex that a few words here would cover) while Saudi, while monarchical, is really just making accommodations with the Wahabists...I suspect they'd prefer to not have them either. But Saudi's buying off Wahabists seems to be an accommodation that works for the benefits of both sides. I'd say not too positive for the rest of the world.)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:06 pm 
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The perspective of someone not a victim, or even under threat, of "Persian" adventurism, imperialism, oppression, or terror.



That's an interesting assumption, but largely incorrect.

Quote:

Not that I want to minimize the threat of Wahhabism, I don't. It too is a serious threat. But it is very much like the Shia' extremism directed by the Iran regime. One difference I see is that Iran is state driven (actually it theocratic...but the situations are more complex that a few words here would cover) while Saudi, while monarchical, is really just making accommodations with the Wahabists...I suspect they'd prefer to not have them either. But Saudi's buying off Wahabists seems to be an accommodation that works for the benefits of both sides. I'd say not too positive for the rest of the world.)


As best I understand things, it is the royalty of Saudi Arabia who fund Wahhabism and make its existence possible.


Though, I must say you are right in the sense that it is very difficult to know which of these two groups is the bigger existential threat to Israel. I just happen to perceive the Saudi's as being less civilized and much more individually self-centered than Persians. (While "Lawrence of Arabia" is one of my favorite movies of all time, somehow I'd much rather live in the Persian culture than that of Saudi Arabia.)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:17 pm 
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... I just happen to perceive the Saudi's as being less civilized and much more individually self-centered than Persians. (While "Lawrence of Arabia" is one of my favorite movies of all time, somehow I'd much rather live in the Persian culture than that of Saudi Arabia.)
If you are talking about Persian society as opposed to the Iranian regime, you may be right. I'd probably agree with you on a preference of where I'd personally like to be. But as current governments, I'd believe the Iranians are probably much more ideological, and therefore more of a threat....plus they have been using their adventurist, imperialist tools. The Saudi regime seems to be much more interested in self preservation and family/personal enhancement.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:26 am 
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more than a thousand injured and nearly 200 killed

Iraq-Iran earthquake: Deadly tremor hits border region

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A 7.3-magnitude earthquake has rattled the northern border region between Iran and Iraq, killing at least 170 people and injuring more than 1,000.

At least 164 people died in western Iran's Kermanshah province, officials told state media.
Six more were reported dead in Iraq. The death toll is likely to rise.

The earthquake sparked panic, with fears of aftershocks sending residents out into the streets.

Mosques in the Iraqi capital Baghdad have been broadcasting prayers through loudspeakers.

Most of the victims were in the town of Sarpol-e Zahab, about 15km (10 miles) from the border, Iran's emergency services chief, Pir Hossein Koolivand was quoted as saying on Iranian state television channel IRINN.

The town's main hospital was severely damaged, leaving it struggling to treat hundreds of wounded, state TV reported........


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/12/dozens-killed-by-earthquake-in-iraniraq-border-region

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/12/world/middleeast/iran-iraq-earthquake.html

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