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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:55 am 
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"Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society. I like to pay taxes. With them I buy civilization."

- Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes (1841 - 1935)

Now I understand why conservatives hate taxes so much. They hate civilization. They love a world where mass shooting are commonplace, and nothing is done. They love a world where Puerto Rico is destroyed by a hurricane, and they are left to their own devices.

What they don't love is our nation as a civilized society. They are seeking to destroy it. They want to cut our taxes so we can't pay for our society, and it crumbles.

That is why I'm not a conservative.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:16 pm 
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Nurses Union in negotiating a new contract is attempting to get civilized society from those who benefit from not paying taxes

Nurses union pays off $1 million in medical debts for Michigan families

Quote:
..........The union is in the midst of contract negotiations with Sparrow Hospital.

As part of its negotiations, the union is asking that Sparrow include a contractual guarantee that the hospital will not change its current policies for giving free or reduced healthcare to eligible patients.

"In exchange for not paying in millions in taxes, we're asking that Sparrow make a promise that it will continue to provide affordable healthcare in the best interests of the community," Michigan Nurses Association Spokeswoman Dawn Kettinger said, referring to Sparrow's tax-exempt status as a non-profit.

The union is also asking Sparrow to stop reporting patients' medical debt to credit scoring agencies.

"For me, it's a daily experience to talk to patients who are worried about medical debt," Lannon said. "They're worried it's going to destroy their credit score and have a ripple effect on their lives."

Sparrow Spokesman John Foren did not respond to the union's specific requests on debt reporting and policies for.................

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:24 pm 
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the childish libertarian/conservative/Republican view of political economy these days is that there is no such thing as society. Thatcher said so herself while busily trying to destroy British society.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:42 am 
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the childish libertarian/conservative/Republican view of political economy these days is that there is no such thing as society. Thatcher said so herself while busily trying to destroy British society.


Just in case you, or anybody else missed when I posted about this before:

Image
Nancy K. MacLean (born August 22, 1959) is an American historian. She is the William H. Chafe Professor of History and Public Policy at Duke University.

Chilling........

Of course it really all started back in the 60's when the Congress, the Executive, and the Supreme Court all got together (separation of power, eh?) and decided that American business interests were more important than the rights of individual citizens. And the citizens have allowed themselves to be ruled by this philosophy of governance ever since. No blaming it all on Republicans either.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:35 am 
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No doubt the left loves taxes. As long as it is other people paying them. No tax rate to high, no tax hike to large, no social program bad.

But, make no mistake the left aren't socialist.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:56 pm 
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No doubt the left loves taxes. As long as it is other people paying them. No tax rate to high, no tax hike to large, no social program bad.

But, make no mistake the left aren't socialist.

So how do you run a country without taxes? Go ahead, tell us.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:32 pm 
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One thing to note is the countries that have little or no taxes are oftentimes the
most expensive places to live. In the end you end up paying...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:29 pm 
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I used to work for a Brand imaging company. Quite often A client would demand the the company make an investment into a specific technology. The technology would usually be expensive, and quite often short lived. The owner would buy the tech every time to appease the client. The owner would not get mad, upset, or even miffed that this investment would could quite possibly be short lived. He felt it was like buying a ticket to get into Disney World. He buys the equipment, his company continues to have the client. He is happy to be in the park enjoying the ride.

I have always viewed the taxes I paid in the same manner. Even when I owned my own place and the rates were quite excessive I viewed them as the price to get in the park. I would struggle to juggle all the variations of code for Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana. Indiana, the most difficult, a State that prides itself on being so business friendly was horrible. Ohio was next in their quarterly demands, and Kentucky was the joke that you see portrayed in the media. My taxes at that time were the most I ever paid, and yet I earned more.

The Republicans don’t want to pay for a ticket to be in the park. And they don’t seem to want follow any rules of being a civilized society. All of them scream about their libertarian leanings and yet they also love to distribute that wealth back to their friends and comrades.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:43 pm 
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No doubt the left loves taxes. As long as it is other people paying them. No tax rate to high, no tax hike to large, no social program bad.

But, make no mistake the left aren't socialist.

The top quintile loves to pay less. That includes some liberals but as a whole that is not true of liberals.

What is a problem is your pathetic, disgusting, intellectually stunted crap. You have learned nothing of political economy but, boy, can you spout rw talking points.

Learn something about political economy before you come here again. That includes definitions for various terms. Otherwise you display your vast ignorance. One would think you would be tired of being shown to be the ignorant fool after a period of time. You know nothing about socialism of any stripe. You know nothing of the end state of Marxism and how similar it is in some ways to libertarianism. All you can bleat is how much you love to kiss the ass of the wealthy and regurgitate debunked economic crap.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:31 pm 
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I favor a progressive taxation system, as it is the fairest and most just to all. Ideally, the poor should pay little or no tax, the middle class a modest amount, and the majority of the burden should be borne by the wealthiest.

As for social programs, they should always periodically be checked for effectiveness and efficiency. If they are failing or becoming counterproductive, they should either be improved, or if there is no way to do that, then, discontinued.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:43 pm 
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Glen understands socialism about as well as he understands Ray Gun's sleazebag origins. In other words, not at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:13 pm 
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So how do you run a country without taxes? Go ahead, tell us.



Typical left wing non sense. If a person opposes excessive taxes they surely oppose all taxes.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:47 pm 
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Typical left wing non sense. If a person opposes excessive taxes they surely oppose all taxes.

You can't answer my question. Not surprised. You're the one making the case that we shouldn't have any taxes.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:57 pm 
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Typical left wing non sense. If a person opposes excessive taxes they surely oppose all taxes.

Please list five excessive taxes and why each of them is "excessive."

Or are you going to runaway from answering this question like you refused to answer gounion's question?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Please list five excessive taxes and why each of them is "excessive."

Or are you going to runaway from answering this question like you refused to answer gounion's question?


Oh another homework assignment OK first you list 5 federal taxes that you think are to low along with 1 federal tax you think is to high.

Personally I believe our current tax structure is very fair and balanced and doesn't currently need any adjustments up or down. If Congress would control spending or more specifically spending growth at some point revenue would catch up to spending.

Case in point yesterday I read that last month the Federal Gov't took in more taxes than ever in the history of our country.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:16 pm 
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You can't answer my question. Not surprised. You're the one making the case that we shouldn't have any taxes.



You don't like my answer so you claim I didn't answer it. When you just didn't get the answer you wanted. Sorry to upset you snowflake.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:33 pm 
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Oh another homework assignment OK first you list 5 federal taxes that you think are to low along with 1 federal tax you think is to high.

Personally I believe our current tax structure is very fair and balanced and doesn't currently need any adjustments up or down. If Congress would control spending or more specifically spending growth at some point revenue would catch up to spending.

Case in point yesterday I read that last month the Federal Gov't took in more taxes than ever in the history of our country.

No, I won't list 5 federal taxes I think are too low and 1 federal tax I think is too high. I haven't made a claim about federal taxes, or any taxes, being too low or high so I have nothing to prove to you. Remember, you're the one making the claim "If a person opposes excessive taxes they surely oppose all taxes." so it's up to you to back up your claim.

Note: it's "too," not "to."

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:05 pm 
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No, I won't list 5 federal taxes I think are too low and 1 federal tax I think is too high. I haven't made a claim about federal taxes, or any taxes, being too low or high so I have nothing to prove to you. Remember, you're the one making the claim "If a person opposes excessive taxes they surely oppose all taxes." so it's up to you to back up your claim.

Note: it's "too," not "to."


I doubt I will ever be able to get to and too correct, believe me I have trie and will try again. I believe too means also?

As for taxes GoU and others have inferred on many occasions that if you are opposed to tax hikes or where the left would like to take taxes then you are opposed to all taxes and that you hate the Gov't. This thread goes along the line of so many others of his. He presents a topic in a manner where you are forced to agree with his general premise. Not unlike the Is Trump a Traitor Thread.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Oh another homework assignment OK first you list 5 federal taxes that you think are to low along with 1 federal tax you think is to high.

Personally I believe our current tax structure is very fair and balanced and doesn't currently need any adjustments up or down. If Congress would control spending or more specifically spending growth at some point revenue would catch up to spending.

Case in point yesterday I read that last month the Federal Gov't took in more taxes than ever in the history of our country.

Maybe in dollar amounts, as our population increases, and the currency inflates.

But NOT in percentage of GDP, which is the true data point.

If you think Mitt Romney needs such a big tax cut, what kind of tax increase are you willing to shoulder to pay for Mitt's decrease?

Another question you'll never answer.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:33 am 
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I doubt I will ever be able to get to and too correct, believe me I have trie and will try again. I believe too means also?

"To" is a preposition used to indicate direction, closeness, or purpose. Ex.: I went to the store.

"Too" is an adverb to indicate the degree of something. Ex.: The box was too big to fit in the car.

I have problems with "it's" and "its" because normally a word ending in " 's" is possessive and with an "s" is plural. I've got it figured out but I still have to stop and make sure.

Quote:
As for taxes GoU and others have inferred on many occasions that if you are opposed to tax hikes or where the left would like to take taxes then you are opposed to all taxes and that you hate the Gov't. This thread goes along the line of so many others of his. He presents a topic in a manner where you are forced to agree with his general premise. Not unlike the Is Trump a Traitor Thread.

No, what GoU and others are saying is taxes are necessary to provide the services the public needs and/or wants. Most liberals believe the more wealth you take from this country the more in taxes you should pay and the less you earn the less you pay in taxes.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:42 am 
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What gets me is that glen wants to take tax money and give it to the corporations and to the rich. No price too big. However much the corporation wants, give it to them. But then they want tax cuts, again, mostly to the corporations and the rich. What glen DOESN'T believe in is fiscal responsibility. Who cares about the debt? Not glen! Just keep cutting taxes and ignoring the fact that we aren't paying for our spending. Again proving my point that conservatives simply aren't going to be adults about governing.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:07 am 
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What gets me is that glen wants to take tax money and give it to the corporations and to the rich. No price too big. However much the corporation wants, give it to them. But then they want tax cuts, again, mostly to the corporations and the rich. What glen DOESN'T believe in is fiscal responsibility. Who cares about the debt? Not glen! Just keep cutting taxes and ignoring the fact that we aren't paying for our spending. Again proving my point that conservatives simply aren't going to be adults about governing.



Wrong again and as usual. Currently we have around 47% at the bottom paying no taxes. While the 1% at the top pay most taxes. For some bizarre reason people like you go through life envious of the wealthy. At least of those wealthy who don't pretend to be liberal. As for me I don't covet their property nor do I believe I am entitled to their property, unlike you.

Once again the only thing I am concerned about when it comes to taxes is this.

1] Is the Gov't going to collect enough to be able to function.

2] How much am I paying

3] Do I think the amount that I am paying is fair.

As opposed to you and most of the left.

1] How much ae the wealthy paying.

2] That isn't enough.

3] It needs to be more.

4] It is unfair they have more than me.

5] I am entitled to their property.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:13 am 
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Currently we have around 47% at the bottom paying no taxes.


Just how it oughta be. We have 1% of the population with as much wealth as 90% of the rest of the population.

Image

Average net worth of the top 1% of American households is $8.4 million.
Average net worth of the bottom 99% of American households is $177,000.
Average net worth of the bottom 50% of American households is $11,000.

Image

Fucking-A right the bottom 47% pay no taxes.

Net worth in this country doubled between 2000 and 2016, glen. It all went to the wealthiest 10%.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:48 am 
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Wrong again and as usual. Currently we have around 47% at the bottom paying no taxes. While the 1% at the top pay most taxes.

Glen

I have to believe you didnt think through your comment, which inaccurately reflects total tax collection. While (y)our numbers may be off, relatively insignificalty as they change from year to year, the 47% and 1% refer to Federal Income Tax, not taxes overall. We have a lot of other taxes besides Federal Income Tax, and those tend to not be, or not be as, progressive. State tax, local tax, social security tax, sales tax, medicare tax, payroll tax. Pew Research tells us that less than half of government revenue is from individual income taxes.


Total Effective tax rates are not that diverse throughout the economy. And in fact the top 1% are not paying the highest percentages.
Image
Again, the numbers change from year to year.

According to Citizens for Tax Justice, the share of total taxes for each income group tends to be pretty close to the total share of income.
According the the Washington Post, the vast majority of houeholds that don't pay Federal Income Tax are either elderly or are paying paying Social Security and Medicare taxes. About 22% of people not paying Federal Income Taxes are retirees. Only about 8% are not paying Federal Taxes at all. The bulk of these people are disabled, students or extremely poor.

The tax reductions for the very poor, are often put in by Republicans, tied in with larger tax cuts for the wealthy.

Another study showed that for people from their 20's to the early 60's, over 80% are paying Federal Income and Payroll taxes, it falls to about 30%at age 80.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:36 pm 
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Glen

I have to believe you didnt think through your comment, which inaccurately reflects total tax collection. While (y)our numbers may be off, relatively insignificalty as they change from year to year, the 47% and 1% refer to Federal Income Tax, not taxes overall. We have a lot of other taxes besides Federal Income Tax, and those tend to not be, or not be as, progressive. State tax, local tax, social security tax, sales tax, medicare tax, payroll tax. Pew Research tells us that less than half of government revenue is from individual income taxes.


Total Effective tax rates are not that diverse throughout the economy. And in fact the top 1% are not paying the highest percentages.
Image
Again, the numbers change from year to year.

According to Citizens for Tax Justice, the share of total taxes for each income group tends to be pretty close to the total share of income.
According the the Washington Post, the vast majority of houeholds that don't pay Federal Income Tax are either elderly or are paying paying Social Security and Medicare taxes. About 22% of people not paying Federal Income Taxes are retirees. Only about 8% are not paying Federal Taxes at all. The bulk of these people are disabled, students or extremely poor.

The tax reductions for the very poor, are often put in by Republicans, tied in with larger tax cuts for the wealthy.

Another study showed that for people from their 20's to the early 60's, over 80% are paying Federal Income and Payroll taxes, it falls to about 30%at age 80.


If you take in account the amount many if not most receive in the form of EITC it more than makes up for what they pay in payroll and other taxes.

Something elsrdont big corporations that the left claim pay no taxes also pay payroll taxes on their employees.

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