RadioFreeLiberal.com

Ya know, this does deserve its own thread.

Trump Moves to Open Nearly All Offshore Waters to Drilling
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/04/clim ... lling.html

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration said Thursday it would allow new offshore oil and gas drilling in nearly all United States coastal waters, giving energy companies access to leases off California for the first time in decades and opening more than a billion acres in the Arctic and along the Eastern Seaboard.

The proposal lifts a ban on such drilling imposed by President Barack Obama near the end of his term and would deal a serious blow to his environmental legacy. It would also signal that the Trump administration is not done unraveling environmental restrictions in an effort to promote energy production.

While the plan puts the administration squarely on the side of the energy industry and against environmental groups, it also puts the White House at odds with a number of coastal states that oppose offshore drilling. Some of those states are led by Republicans, like Gov. Rick Scott of Florida, where the tourism industry was hit hard by the Deepwater Horizon rig disaster in 2010 that killed 11 people and spilled millions of gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico.

Governor Scott vowed on Thursday to protect his state’s coast from drilling, saying he would raise the issue with Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke.

“I have asked to immediately meet with Secretary Zinke to discuss the concerns I have with this plan and the crucial need to remove Florida from consideration,” he said in a statement. “My top priority is to ensure that Florida’s natural resources are protected.”

The governors of New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, California, Oregon and Washington have all opposed offshore drilling plans. Virginia’s governor-elect, Ralph S. Northam, a Democrat, said in a statement Thursday that expanding drilling would jeopardize his state’s tourism and fishing industries, as well as military installations. Gov. Roy Cooper of North Carolina, also a Democrat, called drilling a “critical threat” to his state’s economy.

[snip]

Interior officials said they intended to hold 47 lease sales between 2019 and 2024, including 19 off the coast of Alaska and 12 in the Gulf of Mexico. Seven areas offered for new drilling would be in Pacific waters off California, where drilling has been off limits since a 1969 oil spill near Santa Barbara.

[snip]

But for now, Republicans’ efforts to roll back restrictions on energy production are winning the day. Last month Congress opened the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, or ANWR, to oil and gas drilling as part of the tax overhaul. And last week the Interior Department rescinded an Obama-era rule that would have added regulations for hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, on federal and tribal lands. It also repealed offshore drilling safety regulations that were put in place after the Deepwater Horizon spill.

[snip][end]

Again, I will note this puts the Trump maladmin at odds with a number of Republican, coastal state governors.

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-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger

Although it comes as no surprise to anyone, California intends to see the ass holes in court.

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"Words are the new bullets, satellites the new artillery"
--"Winning CNN Wars," Army War College

"One bomb was shown on TV, and the American people bought that war. War is show business."
--"Wag the Dog"

Exactly. And expect other states to either join California or sue the Trump administration themselves or with a group of other states. The main thing it to delay the Trump Administration as long as possible in hopes the Democrats can win back the White House and revoke the policy.

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IMPEACH NOW, REPLACE LATER!

Trump is showboating. I'm not worried about it.

Unless you want to assume that the President who comes after Trump will continue to support this move, and that Congress and the courts will do nothing about it over the next 8 or 10 years, the lead time to bring it together before a drilling rig goes to sea is too long. Trump will be gone, and this will be gone long before anything actually happens.

It is like what he's done with coal burning power plant regulations, what Trump has done will be undone long before they could pour a foundation footer for a new coal burning power plant. The companies know that, they aren't going to spend the millions to begin the advance planing and start the process when they know his regulation changes are just a smokescreen to rally his base.

You guys have the right idea. The optimistic timeline for all the legal stuff to end and actual drilling to start is something like 20 years. My guess is that 20 years from now, they're just not going to need as much of that damn black goo.

_________________
"Words are the new bullets, satellites the new artillery"
--"Winning CNN Wars," Army War College

"One bomb was shown on TV, and the American people bought that war. War is show business."
--"Wag the Dog"

They’re not gonna start the process on coal plants, period. Gas is cheaper. They know the pr benefits of cleaner. They simply won’t do it. Trump’s grandstanding on coal is just that, grandstanding. He knew his target audience and they gobbled it up like ding-dongs.

As for oil that is changing as well. The real key is replacement technology and resources for organic chemistry currently based off of petroleum.

Of course shifting from petroleum by the world will have some small unintended consequences in places like the Middle East. But, hey, we’ve never had any problems there so why worry?

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

Yes.

I recently bought 50% of my own electrical use in solar capacity from my power company. I financed the placement of solar cells somewhere out in the desert or some such place which will generate that 50% of my average power consumption. In time I might buy 100%.

There will come a day when we don't waste petroleum to produce thermal energy. What a waste petroleum is good for making a lot of things.

The San Diego Union-Tribune has an interesting editorial concerning how California can thwart offshore drilling. Although the federal government grants permission for drilling within its territorial waters California controls the first three miles off the coast and it can refuse oil companies permission to build oil pipelines from their offshore platforms to the coast. Without a means of transporting their oil, other than by ship which would increase their costs, to coastal refineries it would be senseless for them to drill.



California will resist Trump's offshore drill policy and this idea will help us do that.

_________________
IMPEACH NOW, REPLACE LATER!

Like I said, see your ass in court.

_________________
"Words are the new bullets, satellites the new artillery"
--"Winning CNN Wars," Army War College

"One bomb was shown on TV, and the American people bought that war. War is show business."
--"Wag the Dog"

They don't need pipelines. FPSO's will transfer crude or processed crude to tankers.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

who is this new oil for?
other countries are heavily and steadily using alternative power from solar to wind.
the poorer countries like in S/Am have their own oil, and the people are still poor.

no one wants more oil.

_________________
Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
HST.

groper just dangles things out there for reactions. if he gets what he wants he'll keep tossing
similar shit out.

next he'll want all virgins to give it up.
he's just fullashit.

_________________
Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
HST.

https://www.iea.org/about/faqs/oil/

Actually, they do. Development as defined by western capitalism requires low cost energy sources. Higher cost energy sources while better environmentally and better for humanity in the long run are still controlled by capital whether private or state.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

It also affects the coastline off South Carolina. While on the one hand nobody wants to see off shore drilling in their backyard. On the other hand we all or nearly all drive instead of taking the bus. Take trips that are un-necessary we need oil to heat our homes and for so many other things.

So as long as we need and want oil in our lives we need to drill as safely as possible everywhere we can. This issue reminds of the times I get told I am a hypocrite for using Medicaid/medicare to pay for my mom's nursing home. Well, turn that around. If you are opposed to tar sands, off shore, going after the Alaskan Oil then get off the grid. Or at the very least spend the money it takes to put solar on your roof. Or take the bus, cut way back and only use oil when it is absolutely necessary.

The fact is the more we do things like approving off shore drilling the more people will get onboard with alternative energy.

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"Fuck your God....Fuck your Phony Bullshit God Glen, he aint real" Marindem posted 3/17/18 on a thread that was anti hate speech.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22530&start=50#p398844

The fact is that your last statement sums up the libertarian nonsense philosophy. Humans do what is easy when given a choice.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

This sounds counter-intuitive. What you're saying really is the more off shore drilling the more oil and the more dependent we become on it. People will get on-board with alternative energy when it becomes as inexpensive as oil and more products can be powered by it or when oil becomes too expensive, like during the OPEC boycotts, to use.

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IMPEACH NOW, REPLACE LATER!

Coal gasped one last time, rolled over and died.

Regulators kill Perry’s proposal to prop up coal, nuclear power plants

http://thehill.com/energy-environment/3 ... wer-plants

"Perry proposed the action in September. It would have required certain grid operators to pay power producers for their costs plus a reasonable profit, if the power plant at issue has at least 90 days of fuel on-site — a standard that only coal and nuclear could meet."

The were going to try to subside coal on the electrical uses dime. Even Trump's picks packing that regulative body said hell no.

The article mentions nuclear power plants, but they're not not in trouble. They don't need a fuel subsidy to survive.

Why is offshore drilling again banned in Florida? Well, it’s a red state.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pol ... d4de0a2067




I don't feel the need to comment, it speaks for itself.

It is obvious that California has seceded, at least politically. It's in a war with DC, though it's one that DC started. My money's on California. Until it's resolved, see your fat stupid ass in court.

_________________
"Words are the new bullets, satellites the new artillery"
--"Winning CNN Wars," Army War College

"One bomb was shown on TV, and the American people bought that war. War is show business."
--"Wag the Dog"

all the state he ass-umes will allow this drilling off their shores are blue states.

he let fla of the hook for obvious reason.
instead he hopes to fuck the coastal areas which generally vote blue.

_________________
Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
HST.

Hmmm.... well, again, by "red/blue" coastal state do we mean ... who's the governor, control of state legislature, who they voted for president in 2016, amount of Dem/Rep congressfolk .... etc.?

If we go by having Republican governors (as of 2016) ... Florida is not the only red east coast state.



Right to the north are the red states of Georgia and South Carolina. Then there's those red northeastern states. There's still some Republican governors in there, and some of them are also worried about drilling impacts on Tourism.

I personally submit if we use the presidential vote metric, Florida is purple ... we voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012. Also, BTW, we HAVE had Democratic governors (see: Lawton Chiles).

Of course, yeah, Rick Scott was being considered for Trump's Cabinet, and we all know where Mar-a-Lago is, and that probably had as much to do with it as anything.

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger

most states on the coasts have blue voters who live right along the coast line.
you can see that when looking at a vote by county map. red counties blue counties.
or, as rwrs would say...blue counties, where the rich libs live. sigh.

they would of course then be most affected by drilling and spills and just being fucked with by
threats to drill black goo from the already fucked up remaining continental shelf.

its just a threat. its what pussiegrabber does. bullshits.

_________________
Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
HST.

red votes tended to be from hill country in coastal states. the blue libs lived along the coasts
while the fearful gun toting reds lived in the inner highland counties. you know, expecting the last
stand and all that shit.

_________________
Who are these...flag-sucking halfwits fleeced fooled by stupid little rich kids They speak for all that is cruel stupid
They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
HST.

That's my impression too, he's a bullshittin.

Earlier in this thread I said the time to bring any drilling about nullified this as being a real issue. It would be ten years at best before a drilling rig can go to sea.

This is a link which backs up that assertion. The California coast is broken into three zones. "The plan calls for Northern California and Central Coast waters to be opened for new leasing starting in 2021 and Southern California in 2020."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/04/ ... istration/

What that sentence does not say, but which is detailed on a map in the article is that each of those three zones are split into two zones, making it six zones. The plan calls for the first half of the Northern California and Central Coast waters to be opened for new leasing starting in 2021 and the first half of Southern California in 2020. In essence that being an auction. The second half of each of those zones will be go up on the auction block for leasing for Northern California and Central Coast waters to be opened for new leasing starting in 2023 and Southern California in 2023.

They won't be completed with even the leasing stage by the time, assuming Trump gets elected to a second term, finishes his stay in the White House. Realistically those leasing dates are best estimates of when such an event like auctioning off those parcels of ocean bottom could possibly occur. The paperwork to bring about a lease like that will fill box cars. Because the government is the lessee. The reason the government has split those three zones into six zones is they couldn't possibly do their part of that paperwork and such any faster than that. Any oil company which wishes to place a bid in that auction for even one parcel of sea bottom will have to speculative invest a considerable sum just to do the exploration, planing, and paperwork before they would lay down any money for a lease. They will need to set up a land, or in this case a sea bottom, office for which they will have to rent or buy an office building and staff it.

I grew up in a home where those land office field workers came to call. Listened in while my parents discussed leasing their land to their oil company each time it came up for renewal. Every few years my parents would hear their offers and from among them decide who got that lease for that next three year period. I've inherited some sense of that paperwork, from time to time I have to deal with the land office for the consortium of oil companies who eventually became partners to developed a production CO2 field over that dome.

The reason this went on year after year was because they did want to drill there. They needed to secure those parcels of land before they could spend the money to enter the next stage of development the planning of the field itself, drilling test wells, and getting logistics and infrastructure lined up. In this case getting an XL pipeline right of way approved, getting it built. It took all of the time while I was growing up, from the time I was about 6 until the first CO2 shipped, about the time I was 25. 19 years of lead time. Literately tons (2,000 lbs/ton) of paperwork had been done. We've got 55 years of it, amounting to 600ibs of that paper it in our house. And our stake in that project is so minor as to be comparable to a flea on the hair on frog on the tree lodged in the hole at the bottom of the sea.

It may also have to do with what Trump cares about most...himself and his investments. Trump has properties along the Florida coast. I don't think he's got anything along the CA coast, or the Great Lakes....So heck with the environment in those areas.