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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Today here and more so on facebook I read post after post about how rotten the USA is when compared to Norway. That along with the usual LW memes about how the population of Norway is the happiest in the world. Of course none of those memes mentioned the 50+% effective tax rate of Norway nor did they mention that in Norway a gallon of gas is around $9.

But, they did get me to thinking about how those memes show the difference between the mindset of a Liberal and the mindset of a moderate or that of a conservative.

I started driving truck in 1991, anytime after 1993 I could have went to work for any company in the USA both Union or non-Union. Had I had the mindset of a Progressive [ like most here] I would have jumped at a chance to drive for a Union Carrier. The pay would have been higher when compared to driving for a non-union company. The benefits would have been off the chain and of course today I would be looking down the barrel of a large pension just around the corner.

I chose a different path. Most of my carrier I owned my own equipment, which made my pay equal to that of Union drivers, although I do have to work longer hours a quite a bit harder for that pay and have next to no benefits. On paper it makes way more sense to have the Progressive Mindset and work at the Union outfit.

But, then there is the non-liberal mindset. Those of us who are fortunate enough to have decent health [ which is most of us] are going to get about 50 years of freedom. Prior to age 21 we are under the control of our parents, after 71 we are coming to the end of the journey.

I cannot understand what we use to call in the car business the "lunch box" mentality. One where you work for the man all week, doing what you are told to do when you are told to do it. One where you get two days a week and 2 to 4 [ maybe 5] weeks a year to enjoy freedom.

I know people I went to school with who still live in NE Ohio who for the last 35 to 40 years spend 2 weeks a year in Myrtle Beach. The other 50 weeks a year they talk about either the last two weeks they spent at the beach or the next two weeks they are going to spend at the beech.

What a wasted life, yet that is the life the mentality of the American Liberal seems to crave. One where we work 46 to 50 weeks a year for close to all of our 50 years of freedom. Pay crazy high taxes but, like the animal in the zoo have all of our needs along with some of our wants provided for us by some Gov't agency somewhere.

As opposed to embracing the freedoms we have here in the USA [aka the greatest country in the history of man] and finding our own way in life. Not having to kowtow to some employer somewhere. Not selling the only 50 free years we are going to get in this world, for what we perceive as security. Never having any adventures or misadventures. Just hitting an employable age, finding a trade then selling 50 years of your life for nothing.

and that {IMO} is the difference in the mindset of your progressive and your non-progressive. Not being afraid to set out on your own and fail.

Sidebar: my "golden years" are not going to be all that by comparison. But, fishing is still free and I'll take the trade I made years ago anytime. 10 years at the end of life of having to make due to get by for 50 prime years of freedom.

Which is another example of why non-liberals would be miserable living under the what they have in places like Norway.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:38 pm 
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You know what? If you didn't have those stupid "lunchbox mentality" folks, you wouldn't have a fucking truck to drive.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:42 pm 
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You know what? If you didn't have those stupid "lunchbox mentality" folks, you wouldn't have a fucking truck to drive.


I am not putting them down I am just pointing out the difference in mindsets. However I firmly believe that most people wish they had spent their 50 years the way Ive spent mine. As opposed to the humdrum of working 5 days a week, 46-50 weeks a year. Being told when to work, when you can go home, when you can eat lunch, when you can use the bathroom, when you are permitted to spend a weekend off.

I believe that is why so many people [like my brother] spent so many years dreaming about what they were going to do when they retired.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:46 pm 
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Yes, glen, you ARE putting them down. Don't fucking lie.

And you know what, glen, you may think you were more free than I was, but I never had to mow my boss's lawn on my own time to get good routes. I never had to suck up to my boss and work off the clock.

I was a proud craftsman that helped build airplanes that help fuel our nation's economy. I had a job that I enjoyed, building things. I was part of something bigger than myself. I liked going into the plant, knowing I could make a difference in such a big company.

And I was paid good money for my work, for every minute of it.

You see, it sucks that you demand respect for your job as a truck driver, but you hold people who don't do what you did in contempt. When your family depends on you, some people think they owe it to their family to have a stable life and good benefits. They are proud of what they do.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:51 pm 
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Yes, glen, you ARE putting them down. Don't fucking lie.

And you know what, glen, you may think you were more free than I was, but I never had to mow my boss's lawn on my own time to get good routes. I never had to suck up to my boss and work off the clock.

I was a proud craftsman that helped build airplanes that help fuel our nation's economy. I had a job that I enjoyed, building things. I was part of something bigger than myself. I liked going into the plant, knowing I could make a difference in such a big company.

And I was paid good money for my work, for every minute of it.

You see, it sucks that you demand respect for your job as a truck driver, but you hold people who don't do what you did in contempt. When your family depends on you, some people think they owe it to their family to have a stable life and good benefits. They are proud of what they do.


Once again you are saying things that just aren't true. Once again I am simply attempting to point out the difference between those who believe that if we could have the life they have in Norway it would be fantastic. As opposed to those of us who believe it would be tantamount to living in a prison.

Nobody is putting down people with a lunch box mentality.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:53 pm 
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Once again you are saying things that just aren't true. Once again I am simply attempting to point out the difference between those who believe that if we could have the life they have in Norway it would be fantastic. As opposed to those of us who believe it would be tantamount to living in a prison.

Nobody is putting down people with a lunch box mentality.

I believe you weren't putting people like me down like I believe Trump didn't say "shithole".

Your writing is quite plain. Too bad you don't even have the integrity to admit to insults you plainly made.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:58 pm 
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I believe you weren't putting people like me down like I believe Trump didn't say "shithole".

Your writing is quite plain. Too bad you don't even have the integrity to admit to insults you plainly made.



You have a major inferiority complex, nobody is putting people like you down. What I thought would happen is a discussion about the differences in the way people think and perceive things. Maybe defend or discuss why they believe and think the way they do. Not some snowflake crying crocodile tears over something not said or meant to be implied.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:03 pm 
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You have a major inferiority complex, nobody is putting people like you down. What I thought would happen is a discussion about the differences in the way people think and perceive things. Maybe defend or discuss why they believe and think the way they do. Not some snowflake crying crocodile tears over something not said or meant to be implied.

That's all you got, isn't it, dickhead?

Here's what you said:

I cannot understand what we use to call in the car business the "lunch box" mentality. One where you work for the man all week, doing what you are told to do when you are told to do it. One where you get two days a week and 2 to 4 [ maybe 5] weeks a year to enjoy freedom.

I know people I went to school with who still live in NE Ohio who for the last 35 to 40 years spend 2 weeks a year in Myrtle Beach. The other 50 weeks a year they talk about either the last two weeks they spent at the beach or the next two weeks they are going to spend at the beech.

What a wasted life, yet that is the life the mentality of the American Liberal seems to crave. One where we work 46 to 50 weeks a year for close to all of our 50 years of freedom. Pay crazy high taxes but, like the animal in the zoo have all of our needs along with some of our wants provided for us by some Gov't agency somewhere.

As opposed to embracing the freedoms we have here in the USA [aka the greatest country in the history of man] and finding our own way in life. Not having to kowtow to some employer somewhere. Not selling the only 50 free years we are going to get in this world, for what we perceive as security. Never having any adventures or misadventures. Just hitting an employable age, finding a trade then selling 50 years of your life for nothing.


Read that, and everyone knows you're a lying sack of SHIT when you say it wasn't putting anyone down.

And again, you may think you're so fucking free, but once again, I never had to go and mow my boss's lawn on my own time to curry favor with him.

That's not being a free man.

And again, it was "lunchbox mentality" guys like me that built the truck you drive. So until you can build that motherfucker yourself, you ain't free. You're just fucking pretending.

You know, when someone puts YOU down for just being a truck driver, I defend you. But you look at me, and insult me. So fuck you.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:07 pm 
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That's all you got, isn't it, dickhead?

Here's what you said:

I cannot understand what we use to call in the car business the "lunch box" mentality. One where you work for the man all week, doing what you are told to do when you are told to do it. One where you get two days a week and 2 to 4 [ maybe 5] weeks a year to enjoy freedom.

I know people I went to school with who still live in NE Ohio who for the last 35 to 40 years spend 2 weeks a year in Myrtle Beach. The other 50 weeks a year they talk about either the last two weeks they spent at the beach or the next two weeks they are going to spend at the beech.

What a wasted life, yet that is the life the mentality of the American Liberal seems to crave. One where we work 46 to 50 weeks a year for close to all of our 50 years of freedom. Pay crazy high taxes but, like the animal in the zoo have all of our needs along with some of our wants provided for us by some Gov't agency somewhere.

As opposed to embracing the freedoms we have here in the USA [aka the greatest country in the history of man] and finding our own way in life. Not having to kowtow to some employer somewhere. Not selling the only 50 free years we are going to get in this world, for what we perceive as security. Never having any adventures or misadventures. Just hitting an employable age, finding a trade then selling 50 years of your life for nothing.


Read that, and everyone knows you're a lying sack of SHIT when you say it wasn't putting anyone down.

And again, you may think you're so fucking free, but once again, I never had to go and mow my boss's lawn on my own time to curry favor with him.

That's not being a free man.

And again, it was "lunchbox mentality" guys like me that built the truck you drive. So until you can build that motherfucker yourself, you ain't free. You're just fucking pretending.

You know, when someone puts YOU down for just being a truck driver, I defend you. But you look at me, and insult me. So fuck you.


You caught me red handed. Yep, I spent the better part of 30 minutes writing close to a page just to put you down. Not, to hope to start an interesting discussion about the way people think or how they developed their mindsets. It was all just a ruse to put you down. Dammit there is just no getting anything past your eagle eyes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:11 pm 
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Your mindset is that you conservatives are morally better than us fucking welfare-loving lazy ass liberals.

But you'll sure as hell suck up that Social Security when you have to retire. Without it you'd be on the streets with a cup begging for some of us "lunchbox mentality" people with a pension to put a nickel in.

Now THAT'S freedom.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Your mindset is that you conservatives are morally better than us fucking welfare-loving lazy ass liberals.

But you'll sure as hell suck up that Social Security when you have to retire. Without it you'd be on the streets with a cup begging for some of us "lunchbox mentality" people with a pension to put a nickel in.

Now THAT'S freedom.


See there you've hit upon the LW mindset. Without the Gov't we would all be starving in the streets. Which is partly true as some would but, not to the degree people of places like Norway have the Gov't in their lives. Or the way [IMO] you folks on the left seem to crave the Gov't to be involved in ours.

Personally had I spent the last 40 years working at the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company, which I probably would have had things stayed the way they were from 1945-1975 today I would be looking back at a life of regret.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:22 pm 
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See there you've hit upon the LW mindset. Without the Gov't we would all be starving in the streets. Which is partly true as some would but, not to the degree people of places like Norway have the Gov't in their lives. Or the way [IMO] you folks on the left seem to crave the Gov't to be involved in ours.

Personally had I spent the last 40 years working at the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company, which I probably would have had things stayed the way they were from 1945-1975 today I would be looking back at a life of regret.

Well, if you didn't have the government, you wouldn't have anything. Really. How would your employer pay you? In coconuts? How could you have a contract, with no government to enforce it? How would you drive, with no government building roads?

I worked in a factory for 25 years. I enjoyed a lot of it. Oh, not every day, but I know there are days you wished you weren't doing what you're doing.

But I look back at those days with fondness. I had the money to do the things I wanted to do, and I didn't have to spend my Saturdays mowing the boss's lawn to suck up to him.

Yeah, I notice you have yet to address that. Because it's true.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:26 pm 
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Well, if you didn't have the government, you wouldn't have anything. Really. How would your employer pay you? In coconuts? How could you have a contract, with no government to enforce it? How would you drive, with no government building roads?

I worked in a factory for 25 years. I enjoyed a lot of it. Oh, not every day, but I know there are days you wished you weren't doing what you're doing.

But I look back at those days with fondness. I had the money to do the things I wanted to do, and I didn't have to spend my Saturdays mowing the boss's lawn to suck up to him.

Yeah, I notice you have yet to address that. Because it's true.


I have never mowed the bosses lawn. However there have been times when I ve done favors which in turn were paid back in a quid pro quo manner. As for the rest of your argument about roads and coconuts, etc that is just being silly.

Of course we need Gov't for roads and laws, But, we don't need the Gov't they have in Norway which has been propped up so many times today as a great example of what we need here.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:32 pm 
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I have never mowed the bosses lawn. However there have been times when I ve done favors which in turn were paid back in a quid pro quo manner. As for the rest of your argument about roads and coconuts, etc that is just being silly.

Then you lied to me when you said you did mow the bosses lawn.
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Of course we need Gov't for roads and laws, But, we don't need the Gov't they have in Norway which has been propped up so many times today as a great example of what we need here.

You know, people or their employers have to pay thousands of dollars a MONTH for health care for their employer. By paying for single payer for everyone with taxes, it's far cheaper than our system. They spend half as much as we do per GDP.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:41 pm 
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Norway has truck drivers, some of them independent contractors. It also has self employed people. And business owners. Every kind of occupation we have here in the U.S. you can find in Norway.

Just to be clear, although Norway is a social democracy with more social programs than the U.S., it still has plenty of private enterprise.

It is not the Soviet Union. Norwegian people are very free to do whatever they want in life. Any adventurous, free-spirit thing somebody in the U.S. is doing, you can find Norwegians doing, also.

Best of all, they get a whole bunch of weeks of paid vacation, so even if they are "lunchbox people" they get PAID to go spend a couple weeks in Tahiti, or anywhere else they want to go.

They may do more ice fishing, sailing, and skiing - that's geography.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:43 pm 
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glen, who has never left this country, knows everything about everywhere else.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:46 pm 
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Then you lied to me when you said you did mow the bosses lawn.

You know, people or their employers have to pay thousands of dollars a MONTH for health care for their employer. By paying for single payer for everyone with taxes, it's far cheaper than our system. They spend half as much as we do per GDP.


Maybe I mowed around the terminal before waiting for a load. I have done many "favors" and don't deny any of them. All while waiting on freight. So given the choice of sitting around BS'ing with other drivers or doing things that will make me more money I choose the latter.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:47 pm 
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Then you lied to me when you said you did mow the bosses lawn.

You know, people or their employers have to pay thousands of dollars a MONTH for health care for their employer. By paying for single payer for everyone with taxes, it's far cheaper than our system. They spend half as much as we do per GDP.


I'm am not a Rand Paul type, many social programs have a place in our society. Just not to the degree the left desires.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:49 pm 
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Maybe I mowed around the terminal before waiting for a load. I have done many "favors" and don't deny any of them. All while waiting on freight. So given the choice of sitting around BS'ing with other drivers or doing things that will make me more money I choose the latter.

"You guys can sit around, but I have suck up to the boss!"

FFREEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMM!

Well, I never had to sit around on my own time. If I was there, I was working and getting paid. I didn't have to sit around for hours waiting for free.

...and you call that being free. I'd say you were working for free.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:49 pm 
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I'm am not a Rand Paul type, many social programs have a place in our society. Just not to the degree the left desires.

Oh, I dunno, like single payer health care?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:56 pm 
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"You guys can sit around, but I have suck up to the boss!"

FFREEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMM!

Well, I never had to sit around on my own time. If I was there, I was working and getting paid. I didn't have to sit around for hours waiting for free.

...and you call that being free. I'd say you were working for free.


Again that is your mindset and it is wrong. Nobody is sucking off the boss. We are all in competition in my case it was for the best paying most desirable loads. So doing something to set yourself apart from those who sit in the TV room waiting for a call about loads is good business. Tantamount to networking.

In your world the guy with the most senority get first pick. Even if he is the biggest screw up there. No matter how hard you work or if you are the best driver. At Union companies the guy with the most senority gets first pick. Killing any and all incentive to do any extra or a better job.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Oh, I dunno, like single payer health care?


Single payer would be a good thing. Because HC insurance companies have shown themselves not to be good stewards of that which they are suppose to provide. If they were doing the job they should be doing then single payer would be a poor choice.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Norway has truck drivers, some of them independent contractors. It also has self employed people. And business owners. Every kind of occupation we have here in the U.S. you can find in Norway.

Just to be clear, although Norway is a social democracy with more social programs than the U.S., it still has plenty of private enterprise.

It is not the Soviet Union. Norwegian people are very free to do whatever they want in life. Any adventurous, free-spirit thing somebody in the U.S. is doing, you can find Norwegians doing, also.

Best of all, they get a whole bunch of weeks of paid vacation, so even if they are "lunchbox people" they get PAID to go spend a couple weeks in Tahiti, or anywhere else they want to go.

They may do more ice fishing, sailing, and skiing - that's geography.


While I am sure truckers there have an ok life. At $9 a gallon for gas and 50+% taxes very few workers are having any of the freedom we have here. The reason they afre so happy is because they do not know any better or different.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:18 pm 
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Again that is your mindset and it is wrong. Nobody is sucking off the boss. We are all in competition in my case it was for the best paying most desirable loads. So doing something to set yourself apart from those who sit in the TV room waiting for a call about loads is good business. Tantamount to networking.

"ME! ME! I'll work for free!"

Yep, that's the Randian world. How about they did this? How about the said "Hey, we got this load going to Philly. Everyone speak up - whoever will accept the least amount of money gets the load!"

Now THERE'S competition!
Quote:
In your world the guy with the most senority get first pick. Even if he is the biggest screw up there. No matter how hard you work or if you are the best driver. At Union companies the guy with the most senority gets first pick. Killing any and all incentive to do any extra or a better job.

Seniority is the only fair way. Otherwise, the guy who wants to mow lawns for free gets it. Or the boss's son-in-law. Or the guy who takes the boss out and buys him beer. Or the guy who works on the boss's race car for free.

You know, I worked under a seniority system my whole career. Longevity meant something. The senior guys didn't see the junior guys as competition. They would mentor and teach the younger guys. We never saw work as competition. We would work together. Or a guy would say, I need some help. Or they'd ask for advice on a particularly difficult assignment.

We were very good at what we did, and we respected each other. We were highly skilled and productive. We didn't work because the boss was dangling a dollar in our face. We didn't try to screw over our fellow workers to get a leg up.

But you show your contempt for co-workers. You're better than everyone else, so you deserve BETTER treatment.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:20 pm 
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While I am sure truckers there have an ok life. At $9 a gallon for gas and 50+% taxes very few workers are having any of the freedom we have here. The reason they afre so happy is because they do not know any better or different.

You know, I'll bet you that they consider they are free because no one goes bankrupt and loses everything because they get sick.

I mean, glen, be honest. Say you got sick and couldn't work anymore. What would happen to you? Rest assured that I don't wish that on anyone, but you never know what will happen with your health.


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