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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:16 am 
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as someone who is a survivor of domestic and sexual assault, i have a hard time processing this right now. i will come back to this, when i can. love you all.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:17 am 
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I was saying that's how I know who Harvey Weinstein is cause I remember Michael Moore having problems finding a distributor, not that thats all he did, unlike the other 2 people go u mentioned that I didnt know who they were.



well I dont think you should disbelieve them I just think there needs to be a process thats fair to all parties. I know the general attitude is quite conservative now on employment security after decades of abuse and cruelty but I dont agree with it and wont aid or support that mindset. for a lot of people employment is life or death situation for a lot of vulnerable people like children they rely on that, now weinstein likely wouldnt have a problem paying his child support but not everyone is weinstein either.


Well this is interesting, given that this is probally reason number 1,639 why so many women don't come forward against these batterers, abusers, harassers, and rapists in the workplace: many of us can't, because we can't afford to get canned from the job with the sh*t manager or co-worker because we have dependents.

We also know what is likely to happen when we do: you're making it up, you wanted it, you're just trying to bring down a good man, you're a opportunist careerist, you're an angry feminst, you're a lesbian who can't get a man so obviously you just hate men, we have a policy against that, etc.

I think it's interesting that women with dependents seemingly doesn't even enter your thinking at all; only the men. I sure hope I'm wrong about that.

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:19 am 
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as someone who is a survivor of domestic and sexual assault, i have a hard time processing this right now. i will come back to this, when i can. love you all.


:(

Yeah we all have our ways of dealing with it. Some days are better than others. Heck, some years are better than others. :(

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:52 am 
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:(

Yeah we all have our ways of dealing with it. Some days are better than others. Heck, some years are better than others. :(

the truest thing i have read about it. what i really need to know is when is it okay to get up and move again? without getting knocked the fck down from the trauma.... AGAIN. when can i move? when can i feel and not be a robot?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:09 am 
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the truest thing i have read about it. what i really need to know is when is it okay to get up and move again? without getting knocked the fck down from the trauma.... AGAIN. when can i move? when can i feel and not be a robot?


All I can say is, recovery or coping with ptsd is not linear. But fully feeling, not being frozen up, those things take a lot of time. A LOT of time, and that's the only linear thing about it. If you want to take this offline off of this thread, PM me. And if not, I get it.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:05 am 
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:(

Yeah we all have our ways of dealing with it. Some days are better than others. Heck, some years are better than others. :(

My wife used to have severe panic attacks because of an incident that happened about 5 years before we met..... quite a few years ago.... we are old....lol..... but the panic attacks could be brought on simply from me rolling over in my sleep and draping my arm over her. By panic attack.... I mean full-on hyperventilation.... uncontrollable crying..... sobbing...... the kind of crying where you think you will die of suffocation because you can never catch your breath...the whole shabang-a-bang. She still suffers, but not nearly as bad. So..... Although I could never speak as to what that is like..... and in no way am I saying it is the same or even comparable.....but I can tell you what I have witnessed first hand.... and how helpless I felt.... YEARS LATER...... because of how helpless she felt because of something someone did to her years before we met.

She got an abortion because of that rape.

My dumb-ass didn't really understand what was going on in her mind...... and it caused .... issues. She would go into a full blown panic attack where she was hyperventilating and literally shaking/convulsing.......and MY STUPID DUMB-ASS..... typical guy...... and I say that as a guy..... there are certain behaviors we are programmed to do......

So as the typical dude..... c'mon Carmen..... take a guess what my half-asleep dumb-ass would try to do...... give it a couple seconds before reading on and say......

Kempster.... You dumb M'Fer!..... and you would shake your head and sigh..... and probably repeat.... dumb m'fer.

Yes..... My dumb-ass... I would try and hold her closer.... like someone holding a hypothermia patient.... seemed reasonable to me at the time..... while half-asleep..... except..... when she was going through a panic attack at the time..... she didn't want to feel restrained by anybody.... let alone a dude.... no I wasn't dumb enough to try and get her out of her PJs.... but as I look back on it.. still pretty fucking dumb.

It is hard for a man to talk about something like that happening to his wife..... regardless of whether it was while they were a couple..... before... or after..... I know that from experience, so I can only guess how hard it is to say...... "It happened to me!"

Proud of the women, but sad about the large number of them that are coming out now. Hopeful that my 2 daughters won't ever have to deal with that type of systemic BS that the ladies have had to deal with for decades.

Cheers cjonze!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:50 am 
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No I haven't been to a training that specifically addressed that specific topic. I have attended many management seminars where harassment and discrimination were covered among a number of other HR issues. I also have over 25 years of actual experience managing staffs composed of people of all races, religions, gender and sexual preferences. I am not going to pretend I know everything or that I am an expert in all things HR. But even with my limited knowledge I still have an approach to dealing with such issues. In all of the management seminars I have attended I never heard anyone advocating entering into an investigation with a bias towards one side or another. That's step one towards treating people with dignity and respect. I'm assuming that since you asked and based on the fact that you are so critical of others with actual experience, that you have had some formal sexual harassment training. Doesn't seem to have done you much good. You don't seem to have a strategy at all besides criticizing people who actually have had to make such decisions. I am not going to take a lecture on sexual harassment from a man who so easily dismissed Bill Clinton's accusers with the excuse that "you didn't see anything in his character" to lead you to believe he was capable of such a thing. Then today you follow that up with a statement "You know as well as I do that people can have far more faces they show, and what they are in private are often far different than their public personas." Contradict yourself much? I am not going to make a lecture on sexual harassment from a man that states he automatically assumes one side is telling the truth. Don't let your HR person or your legal counsel hear you say that. And let me clue you in. People lie. Men and women. That's also pretty much a given. So it appears to me that whatever training you may have had wasn't all that great.

More arguments for the status quo. You're the expert, and what you've done for 25 years is just fine.

Got it.

You don't get it. This culture IS changing, and the system you've been part of will fall apart, because it's protected predators, and did NOT protect women.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:16 am 
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I was saying that's how I know who Harvey Weinstein is cause I remember Michael Moore having problems finding a distributor, not that thats all he did, unlike the other 2 people go u mentioned that I didnt know who they were.



well I dont think you should disbelieve them I just think there needs to be a process thats fair to all parties. I know the general attitude is quite conservative now on employment security after decades of abuse and cruelty but I dont agree with it and wont aid or support that mindset. for a lot of people employment is life or death situation for a lot of vulnerable people like children they rely on that, now weinstein likely wouldnt have a problem paying his child support but not everyone is weinstein either.

Okay, with all due respect, if you haven't read the news about Weinstein, Wynn and Porter, not sure you should be giving an opinion, because it certainly isn't an informed one. Weinstein is a Hollywood Mogul accused by nearly one hundred women, Steve Wynn is a Las Vegas casino mogul and was the finance chair for the Republican Party, and Rob Porter was one of Trump's closest advisors.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:45 am 
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More arguments for the status quo. You're the expert, and what you've done for 25 years is just fine.

Got it.

You don't get it. This culture IS changing, and the system you've been part of will fall apart, because it's protected predators, and did NOT protect women.



I find the stance you and others here are taking at this time to be very odd. It is the polar opposite view you took a year or so back when I posted the court records about Ed Schultz' ex-wife getting a restraining order against him and how Schultz had gone to court to get the records of his alleged abuse locked up.

I am guessing that your opinions had evolved since then.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:03 am 
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I find the stance you and others here are taking at this time to be very odd. It is the polar opposite view you took a year or so back when I posted the court records about Ed Schultz' ex-wife getting a restraining order against him and how Schultz had gone to court to get the records of his alleged abuse locked up.

I am guessing that your opinions had evolved since then.

Could be. But yours haven’t. Two rules, on for Dems and one for GOP.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:46 am 
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Could be. But yours haven’t. Two rules, on for Dems and one for GOP.


In the case of Schultz his ex was an educated women who went as far as getting a restraining order. Then Schultz took the steps to see to it the facts of that case were sealed. So there was evidence of something wrong. I wish I could find that post and the replies from the folks here. as I recall all defended him and most claimed it was not unusual for a wife to go after a husband like that in a divorce proceeding.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:51 am 
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My wife used to have severe panic attacks because of an incident that happened about 5 years before we met..... quite a few years ago.... we are old....lol..... but the panic attacks could be brought on simply from me rolling over in my sleep and draping my arm over her. By panic attack.... I mean full-on hyperventilation.... uncontrollable crying..... sobbing...... the kind of crying where you think you will die of suffocation because you can never catch your breath...the whole shabang-a-bang. She still suffers, but not nearly as bad. So..... Although I could never speak as to what that is like..... and in no way am I saying it is the same or even comparable.....but I can tell you what I have witnessed first hand.... and how helpless I felt.... YEARS LATER...... because of how helpless she felt because of something someone did to her years before we met.

She got an abortion because of that rape.

My dumb-ass didn't really understand what was going on in her mind...... and it caused .... issues. She would go into a full blown panic attack where she was hyperventilating and literally shaking/convulsing.......and MY STUPID DUMB-ASS..... typical guy...... and I say that as a guy..... there are certain behaviors we are programmed to do......

So as the typical dude..... c'mon Carmen..... take a guess what my half-asleep dumb-ass would try to do...... give it a couple seconds before reading on and say......

Kempster.... You dumb M'Fer!..... and you would shake your head and sigh..... and probably repeat.... dumb m'fer.

Yes..... My dumb-ass... I would try and hold her closer.... like someone holding a hypothermia patient.... seemed reasonable to me at the time..... while half-asleep..... except..... when she was going through a panic attack at the time..... she didn't want to feel restrained by anybody.... let alone a dude.... no I wasn't dumb enough to try and get her out of her PJs.... but as I look back on it.. still pretty fucking dumb.

It is hard for a man to talk about something like that happening to his wife..... regardless of whether it was while they were a couple..... before... or after..... I know that from experience, so I can only guess how hard it is to say...... "It happened to me!"

Proud of the women, but sad about the large number of them that are coming out now. Hopeful that my 2 daughters won't ever have to deal with that type of systemic BS that the ladies have had to deal with for decades.

Cheers cjonze!



I find it so bizarre how things that happened years earlier effect people. My wife grew up poor and in an abusive household. They never had a good Christmas. Every year at Christmas my wife seems to revert to that and becomes a different person.

In close to 40 years this was the first year she didn't take the tree down the day after Christmas. We have also never been allowed to decorate the house beyond a tree and stockings. Whiled I would think a person would go the other way and over compensate it seems that is not the way it happens in real life.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:03 am 
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In the case of Schultz his ex was an educated women who went as far as getting a restraining order. Then Schultz took the steps to see to it the facts of that case were sealed. So there was evidence of something wrong. I wish I could find that post and the replies from the folks here. as I recall all defended him and most claimed it was not unusual for a wife to go after a husband like that in a divorce proceeding.


Find the thread you're talking about and post it, or please retract the accusation.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:04 am 
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I find it so bizarre how things that happened years earlier effect people. My wife grew up poor and in an abusive household. They never had a good Christmas. Every year at Christmas my wife seems to revert to that and becomes a different person.

In close to 40 years this was the first year she didn't take the tree down the day after Christmas. We have also never been allowed to decorate the house beyond a tree and stockings. Whiled I would think a person would go the other way and over compensate it seems that is not the way it happens in real life.


Kemp is talking about his wife having been raped.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:23 am 
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Find the thread you're talking about and post it, or please retract the accusation.

I remember the thread. It was another one he was using to troll everyone. Here it is.

If you search "Schultz restraining order" for posts from glenfs, you'll see how he was going to various threads using this as an excuse for GOP actions.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:28 am 
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My wife used to have severe panic attacks because of an incident that happened about 5 years before we met..... quite a few years ago.... we are old....lol..... but the panic attacks could be brought on simply from me rolling over in my sleep and draping my arm over her. By panic attack.... I mean full-on hyperventilation.... uncontrollable crying..... sobbing...... the kind of crying where you think you will die of suffocation because you can never catch your breath...the whole shabang-a-bang. She still suffers, but not nearly as bad. So..... Although I could never speak as to what that is like..... and in no way am I saying it is the same or even comparable.....but I can tell you what I have witnessed first hand.... and how helpless I felt.... YEARS LATER...... because of how helpless she felt because of something someone did to her years before we met.

She got an abortion because of that rape.

My dumb-ass didn't really understand what was going on in her mind...... and it caused .... issues. She would go into a full blown panic attack where she was hyperventilating and literally shaking/convulsing.......and MY STUPID DUMB-ASS..... typical guy...... and I say that as a guy..... there are certain behaviors we are programmed to do......

So as the typical dude..... c'mon Carmen..... take a guess what my half-asleep dumb-ass would try to do...... give it a couple seconds before reading on and say......

Kempster.... You dumb M'Fer!..... and you would shake your head and sigh..... and probably repeat.... dumb m'fer.

Yes..... My dumb-ass... I would try and hold her closer.... like someone holding a hypothermia patient.... seemed reasonable to me at the time..... while half-asleep..... except..... when she was going through a panic attack at the time..... she didn't want to feel restrained by anybody.... let alone a dude.... no I wasn't dumb enough to try and get her out of her PJs.... but as I look back on it.. still pretty fucking dumb.

It is hard for a man to talk about something like that happening to his wife..... regardless of whether it was while they were a couple..... before... or after..... I know that from experience, so I can only guess how hard it is to say...... "It happened to me!"

Proud of the women, but sad about the large number of them that are coming out now. Hopeful that my 2 daughters won't ever have to deal with that type of systemic BS that the ladies have had to deal with for decades.

Cheers cjonze!


Well no, I wouldn't say that. What I would say is that it depends on the reaction to not wanting to be held. I've had some people get REALLY defensive and take it personally, then you have to end up placating and supporting them from a place of being truly in a state.

You know they just want to help you and you have to find a way to tell them they're not helping. Not an easy conversation to have, even when one is not in a state. So honestly, I would not say you are a typical guy at all!

I mean, it's not dumb -- until she told you, how could you have a way of knowing?

There does come that time in every relationship where it's like...do I tell them, or not. Can they handle it, or not. Preferably the revelation comes at a safe time in a safe environment but when you can't see it coming, these things can truly throw a wrench in even the most innocuous of activities. Then your partner is left wondering what to do, how to help (if they're the helping type; some people aren't), and the cycle continues.

Reason number 9,623,612,110 not to ever waste my time trying to have a relationship with a conservative man or woman. That way of life fosters abuse in every kind of relationship, blames the victim for what happened to them, and makes the perp the victim. Can't be trusted.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:34 am 
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I remember the thread. It was another one he was using to troll everyone. Here it is.

If you search "Schultz restraining order" for posts from glenfs, you'll see how he was going to various threads using this as an excuse for GOP actions.


:problem:

Then there's this classic for the ages: Track Palin Arrested

Two years later glen apparently still had not cleared up that sources problem, which got in the way of his ability to back up his own claims. It was off-topic, anyway. :problem:

Anything to avoid the topic of yet another conservative male's persistent, violent, wifebeater behavior.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:04 am 
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MSU to pay former chief justice $640 an hour for legal work

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........MSU Interim President John Engler announced Tuesday that Young, whom Engler had appointed to the state Supreme Court when Engler was governor, would be brought in to help with the various investigations into MSU's handling of the Larry Nassar case. More than 150 women have accused the former MSU doctor of sexually abusing them while he treated athletes from MSU and USA Gymnastics.

The contract, which is in the form of a letter from Young to Engler, outlines the work the firm will do.

"In particular, we will assist you in coordinating the various investigations concerning Dr. Nassar's activities, directing and monitoring litigation and the performance and fees of outside counsel defending the university as well as such other matters you assign," the letter says.

It says the firm will waive the standard retainer fee and only bill per hour.

Young's time will be the most costly — he will bill at $640 an hour............


Englers state supreme court appointee who ruled in favor of voter ID

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:21 pm 
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State legislators to grill MSU interim president John Engler today

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State senators will grill Michigan State University President John Engler Thursday during a higher education subcommittee meeting. The testimony is set to begin at 1:45 p.m.

Senators hope to hear answers about how MSU failed in itshandling of complaints raised against Larry Nassar, the MSU doctor accused of sexually assaulting dozens of female athletes on campus, and solutions from Engler about how the school is making sure it doesn't happen again.

Some of those questions will focus on which sexual assault cases make it up to the attention of MSU's top leaders and board, said Tonya Schuitmaker, the chairwoman of the committee....................


so they are grilling a completely different lawyered up person than was there when everything went down. any opinions on this?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:16 pm 
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Engler using scare tactics over legal payouts, say Nassar victim lawyers

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At a hearing before lawmakers last week, MSU Interim President John Engler said that settlements over the Larry Nassar sex abuse scandal will be paid for by “students and taxpayers.”

His comments were widely circulated by media throughout the state, but the basis for Engler’s remarks is unclear and attorneys for Nassar’s survivors now say that MSU's president was employing scare tactics.

“Why he would try to pin this on the students and the taxpayers and essentially try to scare people off was alarming to me,” said David Mittleman, who represents more than 80 of Nassar’s victims. “I was very shocked and surprised.”

Mittleman is surprised, he says, because MSU is insured and, while we don’t know how much insurance could cover, he points out that Penn State’s insurers covered a large amount of their claims.

“Insurance companies paid out at least half of the 93 million for the 33 survivors,” Mittleman said.

The rest of the settlements, according to Penn State spokesman Reidar Jensen, were paid out without using any student or taxpayers dollars...............

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:04 pm 
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MSU spent $500K in January to monitor social media accounts of Nassar victims, others

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- A public relations firm billed MSU for more than $500,000 for January as it tracked social media activity surrounding the Larry Nassar case, which often included the accounts of victims and their families, journalists, celebrities and politicians.

The work, which also included collecting and evaluating news articles, had previously been done by members of Michigan State University's Office of Communication and Brand Strategy, some of whom continued to do so in January.

The work by Weber Shandwick, a New York-based firm, totaled $517,343 for more than 1,440 hours of work, according to documents obtained through a public records request. The firm billed for work done by 18 different employees, whose hourly rates ranged from $200 to $600 per hour. Five of those employees billed MSU for more than $50,000, including one who billed for $96,900 and another who billed for $120,893.

Weber Shandwick no longer works with the university, an MSU spokeswoman said. She did not provide a reason and referred comment to the firm. A message seeking comment from Weber Shandwick wasn't immediately returned............

much more @ link

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:35 pm 
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was thinking about this, where does Aileen Wournos fit into metoo movement.

Homeless Women Say ‘Me Too,’ But No One Listens


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Like many women, I am heartened by the Me Too movement and the spotlight it has put on sexual assault and harassment. It makes me want to fight harder to tell the stories of those whose voices are still going unheard ― especially those of women experiencing homelessness.

As a sociologist who studies food insecurity, I regularly meet with women who don’t have homes. Many times, what starts off as a conversation about food turns into a conversation about something else. They want to talk about how unsafe they feel in the world. They tell me they won’t go to certain food providers because they believe they’ll get harassed there ― or they already have been harassed there.

Harassment and abuse aren’t part of the public conversation surrounding food insecurity. They aren’t part of the conversation surrounding homelessness. Yet from what I’ve been hearing and witnessing ― and from what the research shows ― homeless women aren’t safe no matter where they go............

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:12 pm 
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was thinking about this, where does Aileen Wournos fit into metoo movement.

Homeless Women Say ‘Me Too,’ But No One Listens




I'm willing to bet metoo haters critics only seem to care in an effort to discredit the movement.

If a "homeless" woman came up to them and tried to tell they, too, would be accused of trying to destroy men's lives and livelihoods.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:15 pm 
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carmenjonze wrote:

I'm willing to bet metoo haters critics only seem to care in an effort to discredit the movement.

If a "homeless" woman came up to them and tried to tell they, too, would be accused of trying to destroy men's lives and livelihoods.


well what do metoo fans enthusiests think about it? does she have a place here? she was both homeless and prostitute as a child.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:23 pm 
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well what do metoo fans enthusiests think about it? does she have a place here? she was both homeless and prostitute as a child.


What do you mean by "does she have a place here"?

Listen, your defensiveness and resentments about #metoo are plain as the nose on your face. Like I said, this kind of story only resonates with you as an attempt to discredit #metoo. Why not just make an honest statement about that?

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