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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:08 am 
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The New Yorker - Warren takes Trump's bait.

Look...everybody needs to confront the asshole's racism...but don't ever buy into one of his games. It just makes one look foolish.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:26 am 
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This is the thing about Donald. He taunts people to do some test, then refuses to accept the results.

Barack Obama DID produce his birth certificate and proof of attending university. Donald rejected it as inauthentic, saying nonsense about why it wasn't legitimate.

Elizabeth Warren took a DNA test. Then he said he would have to administer it personally. :roll: (Don't do it, Liz. Don's "test" probably starts with his hand up your crotch.)

Bottom line: the lesson here is ignore Donald. He doesn't accept truth and reality even when it kicks him in the nads.

I don't fault Elizabeth Warren so much, other than for listening to the Inane Orange dweller in the WH and expecting him to keep his word. I repeat: she has never claimed to be Native American or a 'minority' because of ancestry - it's much ado over nothing.

BTW - I don't see her as refusing to meet with Native communities or pass legislation on their behalf, either.

What I will say is I agree with the author's points about what DNA tests can't tell us about our ancestry. This is stuff I tried to tell the kernel who seemed to think they can answer everything. People seem to think there is, say, some "Irish" gene that looks like a four leaf clover, and if you have it, well, dammit, you have Irish ancestry. No, it doesn't work that way, people. It doesn't. We can identify haplogroups that do seem to correlate with clines, and take a human genetics class to learn what we do and don't know about human population genetics and ancestral migrations.

The only way to learn anything about your ancestry is to do actual genealogy, and trace your ancestors as far back as you can. But one interesting thing - the further you go back in time, the more descendants of a particular person (if they had offspring, of course) there will be. Charlemagne lived so long ago, there are probably millions of people descended from him. Saying you are descended from a long ago person is not a big deal; that could be true for lots of people.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:55 am 
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Kamala Harris is not that naive. Not a naïf.

In tackling this now Elizabeth Warren has shown me she thinks for herself, what appears to be her thinking for others is her thinking for herself. Now is not a good time for the team.

That porn lawyer hot dog also shows this.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:58 am 
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The only way to learn anything about your ancestry is to do actual genealogy, and trace your ancestors as far back as you can.


Agree with your comments on Donald.

Just my input on the genealogy...information I got sideways out of my adoptive mother during the last few years of her life, and some papers that emerged from her files after her death confirmed some of the more seedy aspects of my genetic beginnings and my old man's shitty behavior when he was a younger guy. And the mysterious adoption made it pretty impossible to do any accurate genealogy minus DNA information. So a couple of months ago the blonde and I both did the AncestryDNA test...it's the one that provides less medical info and more genetic links to relatives than 23 And Me, the other big service. We knew for sure that her dad was a Jew from Chicago and her mom was a Dubliner, and that she was born on the old sod. Me? Well the story was that my biological dad was probably a Jew from Chicago and my biological mother was definitely Irish and from Chicago.

Turns out she's half European Jew, and roughly a quarter Irish and a quarter English as the genealogy info we had suggested. But, I'm half Munster Irish and half "western European" mix...>1% Eastern European Jew. Other info we have on me supports these findings. So we found the AncestryDNA service to be actually very good and we were able to acurately confirm what we had suspected for some years now. The DNA info also made it possible to identify a whole bunch of bio-relatives that I have out there including siblings, nieces, nephews, and cousins. We only suspected this and without the DNA, it would never have been possible. My biological mother ended up giving up or abandoning all of her children and we all ended up with different last names, unkown to each other. I haven't followed up on any of that yet, but formulating a plan.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:59 am 
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That porn lawyer hot dog also shows this.


So according to Sam, we can now refer to any attorney who has a defamation suit dismissed as "porn lawyer hot dog." :roll:

You might want to stick to youtube music videos with "hit and miss" rhythm sections as your area of expertise, eh Sam?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:14 am 
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I agree that for adopted people, especially with sealed adoption records, DNA testing might be the only way to find bio-relations. Among currently living people.

Just make sure if you commit any future crimes, don't leave genetic evidence at the crime scene. :D

I guess my point is, though, your 'heritage' isn't always, per se, (only) in your genes.

How pure the "blood" that flows through you from your supposed ancestors isn't actually important; traditions are passed down through more than strands of heredity.

Every once in a while, I run into stupid people who say Ashkenazi Jews aren't "real" Semites because they don't "look" Semitic. Therefore, these idiots will proclaim, hating Ashkenazi Jews isn't anti-Semitism. :roll:

So, my answer to that is ...

1) Semitic is NOT a race and has nothing to do with your GENES.
2) It's an ethno-linguistic/cultural group.
3) Many speak Hebrew, a Semitic language; or Yiddish, influenced by Hebrew writing.
4) They play Semitic music and continue to eat Semitic foods ... they have Semitic CULTURE.

BTW, just for the record, there is genetic testing that shows even modern Ashkenazi DO have genetic descent from Palestinian Jews living 2000 years ago. But, going back to my point above ... doesn't fucking matter.
Also, just for the record, check out this phenotypic trait sometimes known as the Semitic nose.

Jews are a people with a heritage and traditions ... not a race ... it doesn't matter how genetically "pure" Ashkenazi Jewish bloodlines are.
Maybe we are partly descended from 10th century Khazars. Thing is, who gives a fuck? Why should that matter? (Including BTW to Zionism).

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Last edited by ProfessorX on Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:22 am 
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So according to Sam, we can now refer to any attorney who has a defamation suit dismissed as "porn lawyer hot dog." :roll:

You might want to stick to youtube music videos with "hit and miss" rhythm sections as your area of expertise, eh Sam?


So according to Ike homespun Tractor Music is where it's at. :D

www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:38 am 
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The New Yorker - Warren takes Trump's bait.

Look...everybody needs to confront the asshole's racism...but don't ever buy into one of his games. It just makes one look foolish.


Ms. Gessen, much as I adore her, is wrong on this one.

Quote:
Warren, meanwhile, has allowed herself to be dragged into a conversation based on an outdated, harmful concept of racial blood—one that promotes the pernicious idea of biological differences among people—and she has pulled her supporters right along with her


The insidious ideas about racial blood and biological differences among people aren't being promoted by EW and her DNA test-taking. Tribal membership and enrollment is itself often based on blood quantum. And DNA tests are rightfully not used as criteria for tribal membership or enrollment.

The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, by the way, supports Warren. Same for the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians. https://www.businessinsider.com/richard ... en-2018-10

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:14 am 
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Seems like these DNA tests have some real information available, but right now they seem to be a fad. Everyone's on about their DNA. It's the biggest party conversation topic ever.

I did a family tree thing years ago and found some good juicy scandals, as one would expect from an artsy family in the motion picture ghetto in L.A.. Ancestry goes back to Europe (duh), and a rather odd mix of the eastern and western parts of same. After that I could be great Caesar's ghost for all I know.

Thing is... NEVER do something regarding personal ancestry because drumpf makes a stink about it. He'll ignore you anyway. It's all a political tactic, and a very New York one.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:01 am 
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This entire Warren thing is another distraction. There is an important election coming up. Not sure why this couldn't have waited.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:35 am 
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Agree with your comments on Donald.

Just my input on the genealogy... So a couple of months ago the blonde and I both did the AncestryDNA test...it's the one that provides less medical info and more genetic links to relatives than 23 And Me, the other big service. We knew for sure that her dad was a Jew from Chicago and her mom was a Dubliner, and that she was born on the old sod. Me? Well the story was that my biological dad was probably a Jew from Chicago and my biological mother was definitely Irish and from Chicago.

Turns out she's half European Jew, and roughly a quarter Irish and a quarter English as the genealogy info we had suggested. But, I'm half Munster Irish and half "western European" mix...>1% Eastern European Jew. Other info we have on me supports these findings. So we found the AncestryDNA service to be actually very good and we were able to acurately confirm what we had suspected for some years now. The DNA info also made it possible to identify a whole bunch of bio-relatives that I have out there including siblings, nieces, nephews, and cousins. We only suspected this and without the DNA, it would never have been possible. My biological mother ended up giving up or abandoning all of her children and we all ended up with different last names, unkown to each other. I haven't followed up on any of that yet, but formulating a plan.

To your point, I think Prof's and the Cherokee spokesperson's, this is a good example of why the information might be very interesting. It certainly is to you and your family. But (in your case) it doesn't make you or your spouse Jewish. (Maybe it sparks an affinity however.) Nor does Sen Warren's ancestor make her Cherokee (which she isn't claiming. But at some point in her career she found it interesting enough to share.). Again the tests are interesting and helpful in some instance...but there are limitations.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:38 am 
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This entire Warren thing is another distraction. There is an important election coming up. Not sure why this couldn't have waited.

Yeah...Political mistake on Warren's part. But for the midterms it will, I'm sure be insignificant. Not sure about how it might affect her political career. Probably no impact there ever. It will be an issue to those who already dislike her or already dislike Trump. It will be non-issue to people who support her otherwise.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:40 am 
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This entire Warren thing is another distraction. There is an important election coming up. Not sure why this couldn't have waited.


Well, take heart. Give it a couple days, people will have already forgotten about this. :problem:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:11 pm 
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Yeah...Political mistake on Warren's part. But for the midterms it will, I'm sure be insignificant. Not sure about how it might affect her political career. Probably no impact there ever. It will be an issue to those who already dislike her or already dislike Trump. It will be non-issue to people who support her otherwise.


I disagree it was smart on her part to vanquish it now.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:44 pm 
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The way to deal with malignant narcissists is to never defend yourself...never take their bait. Crush them like a grub, but never defend yourself.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:39 pm 
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I agree that for adopted people, especially with sealed adoption records, DNA testing might be the only way to find bio-relations. Among currently living people.


Adopted persons in closed adoptions with sealed records are the wildcards in these discussions.

It makes people who consider themselves to be the authentics nervous to know that there may be a person who is, say, one hundred percent Jewish or Native American or Igbo Nigirian or Nair Indians, or whatever; even more "pure" than they are, who can be relegated to inauthentic imitators.

Likewise, the people told all their lives they're a this or a that, then they take a couple DNA tests and find out something quite different.

Then, the ranks of exclusion close around the newly-minted outsiders to make sure no one mistakes them for the cultural authentics. Supposed authentics.

Black people, who have a history of being subjected to irrational, illogical biological fictions like One-drop rules, kind of laugh at this behavior.

Lol some people keep pointing and crying that Elizabeth Warren might be only -- GASP!! - 1/1024 Native American!

Lol meanwhile, my grandmother and her kids had one-drop laws imposed on them by the same governments coming up with these absurd blood quantum rules for Native Americans. And I can guarantee no Pocahontas Exceptions applied to any persons of African descent.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:41 pm 
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The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, by the way, supports Warren. Same for the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians.


So, just like Kanye West doesn't speak for all African-Americans ...

that chief of one band/tribe of Cherokees doesn't speak for all Cherokees in America ... imagine that.

Notify Donald! (I'm kidding. It's not like facts have ever mattered to him.)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:54 pm 
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It makes people who consider themselves to be the authentics nervous to know that there may be a person who is, say, one hundred percent Jewish or Native American or Igbo Nigirian or Nair Indians, or whatever; even more "pure" than they are, who can be relegated to inauthentic imitators.


Yeah, I remember the kernel was all over poor Rachel Dolezal. It's weird how much mr. white flight was angry at the white chick who said she was black. Take the DNA test! :roll:

Earlier in Donald's career, there's some great video back when he wasn't yet a politician, but testifying before Congress, where he angrily denounces them for granting a casino to the Pequots because he can "tell" they are "obviously not" Native Americans ... how does Donald know? Well, like so many, he can look, and he can tell! (Given the era, no demands they take genetic tests, yet.)

Quote:
Black people, who have a history of being subjected to irrational, illogical biological fictions like One-drop rules, kind of laugh at this behavior.


As you've pointed out many times ... Homer Plessy of Plessy vs. Ferguson fame was 1/8 (not even 1/2 or "Halfrican" like Obama) ... well, hypo descent, one drop rule, that made him Black.

Quote:
Lol meanwhile, my grandmother and her kids had one-drop laws imposed on them by the same governments coming up with these absurd blood quantum rules for Native Americans. And I can guarantee no Pocahontas Exceptions applied to any persons of African descent.


OK ... so folks ... where do Native blood quantum rules for tribal membership come from. As I keep saying: not from the tribes themselves.

They are largely an outcome of the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934 ... which essentially imposed the American system of government on every tribe whether they wanted it or not (i.e. they need a elected tribal council-legislative, a tribal chairman-executive, and a tribal judiciary-judicial branch) ... and also these rules. While some discretion was left to the tribes themselves (i.e. will you accept 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, etc.) it was the federal government that imposed the overall blood quantum system on them.

Before these rules were imposed on them from outside, nobody usually cared whether you were a so-called "half blood" or not. Tribal membership wasn't based on skin tone or genetics.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:39 pm 
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To your point, I think Prof's and the Cherokee spokesperson's, this is a good example of why the information might be very interesting. It certainly is to you and your family. But (in your case) it doesn't make you or your spouse Jewish. (Maybe it sparks an affinity however.) Nor does Sen Warren's ancestor make her Cherokee (which she isn't claiming. But at some point in her career she found it interesting enough to share.). Again the tests are interesting and helpful in some instance...but there are limitations.


I was adopted by and grew up in a half-assed conveniently observant Jewish family. Nobody ever went to a Friday night service all the years of my childhood...but trust me Viewer...I've been around Jews all my life...I know Jews...I am one...my family was Jewish. If that doesn't make me Jewish, what does? Sitting in fucking shul all day, every day? I have the multiple broken noses to prove it.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:56 pm 
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The Jewish law which I think Viewer is referring to says you must have a Jewish (bio) mother. BTW this is what Orthodox believe: you are Jewish if you have a Jewish mother, it doesn't matter how observant you are. (I have Orthodox friends, they say this.)

This is interesting because other things, like whether you are a kohen or not, depend on patrilineal descent. Some scholars say the Jews developed this rule because of so many of the Jewish mamalas being raped by Roman Gentiles etc. But I digress!

That said, you sure would help out the redemption of our people if you followed more of these mitzvoth, backslider ... so says the Chabad rabbi my father used to know and hung out at his office. :D

It's one of many currently enforced/interpreted commandments. How many you observe depends on which sect you belong to.

Here in Reform, I would say, a lot of them are ignored. I don't keep kosher, for example. It's a good thing, the only person who might like shrimp more than me is Forrest Gump.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:59 pm 
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I did a DNA test. My mother did too. She has 10 percent Jewish ancestry. I picked up 5 percent.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:00 pm 
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I did a DNA test. My mother did too. She has 10 percent Jewish ancestry. I picked up 5 percent.


I always said you're a mensch.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:03 pm 
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The Jewish law which I think Viewer is referring to says you must have a Jewish (bio) mother. BTW this is what Orthodox believe: you are Jewish if you have a Jewish mother, it doesn't matter how observant you are. (I have Orthodox friends, they say this.)

This is interesting because other things, like whether you are a kohen or not, depend on patrilineal descent. Some scholars say the Jews developed this rule because of so many of the Jewish mamalas being raped by Roman Gentiles etc. But I digress!

That said, you sure would help out the redemption of our people if you followed more of these mitzvoth, backslider ... so says the Chabad rabbi my father used to know and hung out at his office. :D

It's one of many currently enforced/interpreted commandments. How many you observe depends on which sect you belong to.

Here in Reform, I would say, a lot of them are ignored. I don't keep kosher, for example. It's a good thing, the only person who might like shrimp more than me is Forrest Gump.


The rabbi said I was Jewish because I was adopted in infancy by Jews. My wife, who actually had a Jewish father, on the other hand, had to convert to get married in the temple. But you know how Jews are with their laws...particularly woman hater shit like the get.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:04 pm 
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I always said you're a mensch.



Thank you sir :)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:06 pm 
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I second Ike's opinion, Drak. But ya knew that.

I'm sorry we ever argued over #russiagate. We mostly agree ... there is a traitor in the WH.

Well, more than one, I think. But anyway.

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