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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:46 pm 
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the grander size population is not a shock to me. by the map, the section shown in the natgeo map
of the mayan city theyve located...not all these Millions lived right there.
they were spread out well up into mexico and down the C/American pennisula towards Columbia.

remember the blue holes in the caribe...where 300feet Down Into the now Holes of blue water,
they found on ledges carbon chunks from firepits, bones, tools...humans Lived there. they lived
300ft down below what is now the atlantic ocean.
the water was that Low during the last ice age meaning during the last mini ice age
the ocean water is sucked up into ice glaciers in the northern atlantic...leaving more
ground open towards the equator for habitation by humans and animals.
northern ice was estimated to be 1-2miles thick. that leaves a Lot of open land to the south.

as columbus prolly island hopped across the atlantic, 1492, during the height of the last mini ice age,
humans were far more spread out across the caribe than we realize.

thats why the weather pattern changes across mexico to columbia were so severe.
10-15million humans were cutting down forests to burn the firewood, for one thing.


btw...to this day no one knows how machu Pichu was built. they did not have the wheel.
yet somehow all those massive boulders were cut and set in place in ways no human can do.

many did have the wheel at some point, what they did not have was the axle. it took ages to
conjure up how to use an axle with a wheel. they had neither for machuPichu or this newly
located mayan city.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:04 pm 
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http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/wheel.htm
A wheel with spokes first appeared on Egyptian chariots around 2000 BC, and wheels seem to have developed in Europe by 1400 BC without any influence from the Middle East. Because the idea of the wheel appears so simple, it’s easy to assume that the wheel would have simply "happened" in every culture when it reached a particular level of sophistication. However, this is not the case. The great Inca, Aztec and Maya civilizations reached an extremely high level of development, yet they never used the wheel. In fact, there is no evidence that the use of the wheel existed among native people anywhere in the Western Hemisphere until well after contact with Europeans.

Even in Europe, the wheel evolved little until the beginning of the nineteenth century.
However, with the coming of the Industrial Revolution the wheel became the central component of technology, and came to be used in thousands of ways in countless different mechanisms.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:23 pm 
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It's true that Pre-Columbian civilizations in the Americas did not have the wheel. They seemed to do pretty nicely without it.

We need to remember that different cultures have different solutions for the same problems.

I was aware that the lidar data suggest that the Mayans were very spread out, which is one reason I said it makes deforestation a plausible explanation for their decline.

It's hard enough getting up the mountain to where Machu Pichu is today. (Presumably defense was the idea.) It blows me away that it's where it is. Obviously they knew stuff that previous generations of Eurocentric scholars didn't want to attribute to them. And you know about that pointy mountain behind Machu Pichu, I'm sure. There's stuff up there too. You can climb up there, but it's hard. We'd use heavy lift helicopters to build something like that. They didn't have those.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:18 pm 
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It's true that Pre-Columbian civilizations in the Americas did not have the wheel. They seemed to do pretty nicely without it.

We need to remember that different cultures have different solutions for the same problems.

I was aware that the lidar data suggest that the Mayans were very spread out, which is one reason I said it makes deforestation a plausible explanation for their decline.

It's hard enough getting up the mountain to where Machu Pichu is today. (Presumably defense was the idea.) It blows me away that it's where it is. Obviously they knew stuff that previous generations of Eurocentric scholars didn't want to attribute to them. And you know about that pointy mountain behind Machu Pichu, I'm sure. There's stuff up there too. You can climb up there, but it's hard. We'd use heavy lift helicopters to build something like that. They didn't have those.

thanks i like talking about this stuff and i also find it a great way to diminish prezgrabber et al by dealing
in reality vs the onslaught, the chronic onslaught, of idiocy emanating from our very own Caligula WH.

they wont talk environment but we will. fuck. them.
they must be held accountable for their destruction and NGAF attitude.
as well, this age old archeo stuff is Far more important and interesting that this cabal of fools.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:24 pm 
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Quote:
In fact, there is no evidence that the use of the wheel existed among native people anywhere in the Western Hemisphere until well after contact with Europeans.


the indigenous the natives the indians...didnt have horses til the espanish brought them here.
for some reason...the equine vanished from this continent for over 8000 years.
the last skeletal remains of horse were small pony size horses then all trace of horse
vanished and not a thing was found again til 8000yrs later. no one has found a reason for
this other than god took them aside and kept them safe making them angels.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:17 pm 
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You are correct. They spend a lot of time on that in anthropology classes. Native Americans did not have horses until the Spanish brought them over. Much of the culture that we see in Western movies and attribute to indigenous peoples did not exist, and could not have existed, until horses were introduced. Wild horses on the plains, everything. All from Europe.

Another seminal paper was subtitled "Steel Axes for Stone Age People." There was a tribe somewhere, not North America, that was doing just fine with stone axes. The axe was something of an object of veneration, and its keepers served an important cultural role. A lot depended on when the axes were loaned out to others, who they were loaned to, and what the purpose was.

Europeans brought in steel axes, figuring they'd help the tribe do things faster. They did, but the axes were given out indiscriminately, and the culture had no say in their possession or use. Needless to say, no one wanted to bother with the stone axes any more. When the Europeans came back in some number of years, they were amazed to see that the culture had collapsed completely.

Ahhh, technology.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:59 pm 
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holysmokes....did you see that rocket and booster LAND??? Perfectly?

i didnt know they were gonna do that. wow. thats some impressive stuff.
nice job spaceX.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:03 pm 
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holysmokes....did you see that rocket and booster LAND??? Perfectly?

i didnt know they were gonna do that. wow. thats some impressive stuff.
nice job spaceX.

Yep. I just posted a thread on Space X heavy rocket launch.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Another seminal paper was subtitled "Steel Axes for Stone Age People." There was a tribe somewhere, not North America, that was doing just fine with stone axes.


That was Lauriston Sharp, and he was writing about an Aboriginal community in Australia.

Sorry to jump in. It's in my dissertation. :D

A lot of people noted Sharp's work during the Green Revolution. There was this belief that if we gave away tractors, everybody's life would improve, magically. Unfortunately, we didn't often teach people how to build and maintain tractors, and so a lot of Green Rev tractors are sitting, busted, and unused, in various fields in the 3rd & 4th world, for that reason, collecting weeds, for decades.

There's been a lot of follow-up to Sharp's article, studying this issue of the disruptive effects of new technologies on indigenous communities. It often devolves to the issue of whether the community can properly integrate the new technology into existing ways of life. The reason the horse was taken on so quickly by Plains Indians is if you're already hunting buffalo, it's even better to do it on a horse. Same thing with rifles replacing bow & arrow. Now, alcohol/firewater .... more problematic.

Incidentally, you could consider that same question, regarding the effects of new technology on our own society. I have. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:00 pm 
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I am not an authority on California history. I wasn't even born here, but I took a California History course. According to this review course, Californian natives, before Europeans arrived, were not farmers, but hunter-gatherers. That was one of the reasons that the missions failed. "Indians' didn't want to work on a farm. They never had to before, so they stayed away.

Being hunter-gatherers didn't mean they they were unskilled. They were more efficient in making a living. They didn't make pottery, but made watertight basketery. Lived with little disruption of nature.

The European explorers mistook their ways as primitive and tried to exploit them, even though they were welcomed in a friendly manner.

You may already know this, but I want everybody to remember it.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:10 pm 
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That is the story of a lot of Federal Native policy for a long time, not just in California.

Most notably, the Dawes Allotment Act of 1887. See, Dawes decided all the Native tribes in the U.S. should give up on all that primitive foraging, hunting & gathering crap, and be good proper WASPs who own a parcel of land, farm it, and leave it as property to their kids. They needed not only to be farmers, but farmers who owned, could divide, and sell, their land. None of that collective farming crap, either.

(Mexico didn't get rid of their collective farms until NAFTA in 1994, ending their ejidos. This probably triggered the Zapatista revolt. But I again digress.)

That had a devastating effect on Native communities. Still is having a devastating effect today. Yes, I concur with your point, Fox, white man's burden, this idea what European whites should decide what's best for everybody else (not just American or Australian indigenous communities), ... didn't always work out in practice.

That's before we get to the Termination & Relocation Acts of 1952, probably the apex of this ideology that the best way to save the man was to kill the Indian, i.e. get rid of all his "primitivity" and turn him into a proper WASP.

Image

Carlisle Indian Boarding School existed to turn the savages on the left into the civilized people on the right. That, to many in the 19th century, was the only option beside their extinction.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:25 pm 
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ProfessorX wrote:
That is the story of a lot of Federal Native policy for a long time, not just in California.

Most notably, the Dawes Allotment Act of 1887. See, Dawes decided all the Native tribes in the U.S. should give up on all that primitive foraging, hunting & gathering crap, and be good proper WASPs who own a parcel of land, farm it, and leave it as property to their kids. They needed not only to be farmers, but farmers who owned, could divide, and sell, their land. None of that collective farming crap, either.

(Mexico didn't get rid of their collective farms until NAFTA in 1994, ending their ejidos. This probably triggered the Zapatista revolt. But I again digress.)

That had a devastating effect on Native communities. Still is having a devastating effect today. Yes, I concur with your point, Fox, white man's burden, this idea what European whites should decide what's best for everybody else (not just American or Australian indigenous communities), ... didn't always work out in practice.

That's before we get to the Termination & Relocation Acts of 1952, probably the apex of this ideology that the best way to save the man was to kill the Indian, i.e. get rid of all his "primitivity" and turn him into a proper WASP.

Image

Carlisle Indian Boarding School existed to turn the savages on the left into the civilized people on the right. That, to many in the 19th century, was the only option beside their extinction.

Image


Like Middle eastern countries that use oil revenues to pay for social needs, needing to be liberated.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:40 pm 
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Well, the ultimate goal of the occupation of Iraq was the privatization of their oil assets, so they could be owned by foreign corporations.

Don't take my word for it: Paul Bremer ordered it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_ ... _and_trade

CPA Order 39, entitled "Foreign Investment", provided that "A foreign investor shall be entitled to make foreign investments in Iraq on terms no less favorable than those applicable to an Iraqi investor," and that "[t]he amount of foreign participation in newly formed or existing business entities in Iraq shall not be limited...." Additionally, the foreign investor "shall be authorized to... transfer abroad without delay all funds associated with its foreign investment, including shares or profits and dividends...."

By this order, critics assert that the CPA drastically altered Iraq's economy, allowing virtually unlimited and unrestricted foreign investment and placing no limitations on the expatriation of profit. However, these policies accord with current international standards on foreign direct investment which most of the developed world adheres to. [6][7] The order concluded, "Where an international agreement to which Iraq is a party provides for more favorable terms with respect to foreign investors undertaking investment activities in Iraq, the more favorable terms under the international agreement shall apply." [8]

According to critics such as Naomi Klein, this order was designed to create as favorable an environment for foreign investors as possible, thereby allowing American and multinational corporations to dominate Iraq's economy.[9] Significant criticism has suggested these policies are fundamentally anti-democratic, that such rules can only be legitimate if passed by an elected Iraqi government free of foreign occupation.[10] Others argue that the rules merely bring Iraq's economic law into conformity with modern norms of international trade, and that the previous government and its laws were not democratically legitimate since Saddam Hussein's government was not elected.

CPA Order 17 granted all foreign contractors operating in Iraq immunity from "Iraqi legal process," effectively granting immunity from any kind of suit, civil or criminal, for actions the contractors engaged in within Iraq.[11]

CPA Order 12, amended by Order 54, suspended all tariffs, thus removing the advantage that domestic Iraqi producers had over foreign producers.[12][13] However, a 5% "reconstruction levy" on all imported goods was later reimposed to help finance Iraqi-initiated reconstruction projects.[14]

[snip][end]

BTW, the claim that Bremer was merely bringing Iraq into "modern norms of international trade" is belied by Order 17, shielding foreign oil companies from domestic suits, which you will rarely find in any country.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:50 pm 
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Quote:
The reason the horse was taken on so quickly by Plains Indians is if you're already hunting buffalo, it's even better to do it on a horse.

really? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
ohgawd, thanks for the laff.

yah, id just guess for all the human bands roaming this continent for 1000's of years making 10miles a day
if lucky on foot, im sure theyd take to horses real quickly since riding the bison wasnt going to workout well.


it was the natives who began breeding horses by their color. nez perce began the appaloosa line
and they still stand by it.
cherokee chose a diff color design but a highly distinct one, and they didnt always get it precisely.
ive seen a few of them and they are very distinct. most anglos dont know shit about 'medicine hat'
so they out bred the color design.
in any event it was the natives who cherished the horse when whitey tossed them aside to
fend for themselves. ...which was better than being with the pale people anyway.

the pale people threw away thoroughbreds from all sorta europa blood lines; they threw away any and all
horse if they didnt want them couldnt beat them to death or eat them.
most all the humans carving this continent into chunks for themselves they all ate horse meat.
of course, Donner Pass was also not an unusual event but we dont wanna talk about that.
they had Bad Winters settling this continent. if you werent alone you knew you had food.

women were left in the middle of nowheres with a ton of kids when hubby never returned from hunting.
dont wonder about saloon hall girls. mothers who had NO way to feed 5-6-7 kids...handed them to
passing wagons to remove them from starvation. the women, the moms, then became saloon girls
since there was No other option while waiting for a good wagon heading further west.
some of you have blood kin who dont have a clue who their grandfolks are. they were taken in as
kids and grew up knowing new people and having you.

the horses cut loose to survive, and, find one another...bred those blood lines which became
"America's Horse"....the beloved mustang which is the best horse on this continent BAR NONE...but we
dont care, we'd rather drill for shit in the ground, so the mustang is also going to be extinct soon
along with polar bears and, list the rest.

i have my BLM certificates for the mustangs i adopted and trained. Best experience of my life Bar None.
all else pales by comparison to my life with mustangs.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:26 pm 
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My point was that the idea of Native American culture that we all learn in popular media did not exist until the Plains tribes got their horses, and even then it did not necessarily exist in other parts of what's now the (stolen) US.

I'm not trying to infringe on anyone's turf. Obviously there are people who know the open country the way I know Pico Boulevard. I will continue to defer on that subject.

Most of what I know about Native Americans comes from contact with that particular oppressed group. Yes, the boarding schools, the loss of the culture, and the second class aboriginal status that persisted in the law until amazingly recently. It still persists in many ways. However, that too is someone else's turf.

----
Cool about the stone axes, your dissertation, and that whole tech thing, Professor.

And yes, Iraq II is about oil, and since Iraq I was nominally to liberate Kuwait, it probably was too. You don't see a major war to liberate Crimea.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:07 pm 
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Quote:
My point was that the idea of Native American culture that we all learn in popular media did not exist until the Plains tribes got their horses, and even then it did not necessarily exist in other parts of what's now the (stolen) US.

that is highly accurate.

the stories from the pale people were grossly inaccurate.

before they got the modern horse the 2legs walked everywhere. they walked across the bering strait.
they were walking hunter gatherers for eons.

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They are racists hate mongers I piss down the throats of these Nazis Im too old to worry whether they like it Fuck them.
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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:49 pm 
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amazing building which uses virtually no elec oil gas etc.

they can do this in zimbabwe but merican Pols barely do shit here but
deregulate filthy industries to make money and fuck the environment.


https://inhabitat.com/building-modelled ... ilation-7/

BIOMIMETIC ARCHITECTURE: Green Building in Zimbabwe Modeled After Termite Mounds

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:55 pm 
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My point was that the idea of Native American culture that we all learn in popular media did not exist until the Plains tribes got their horses, and even then it did not necessarily exist in other parts of what's now the (stolen) US.

I'm not trying to infringe on anyone's turf. Obviously there are people who know the open country the way I know Pico Boulevard. I will continue to defer on that subject.

Most of what I know about Native Americans comes from contact with that particular oppressed group. Yes, the boarding schools, the loss of the culture, and the second class aboriginal status that persisted in the law until amazingly recently. It still persists in many ways. However, that too is someone else's turf.

----
Cool about the stone axes, your dissertation, and that whole tech thing, Professor.

And yes, Iraq II is about oil, and since Iraq I was nominally to liberate Kuwait, it probably was too. You don't see a major war to liberate Crimea.

another thing here.
the natives barely fought argued or killed each other, band to band or tribe to tribe. they did not
war against one another, or against the stranger they came across while walking their treks.

it was Only after whitey got here..they began to war for resources and their land, the land they knew
and had lived and walked upon for countless years, centuries.
once they felt squeezed as they did, then, they began fighting amongst their differing groups.
prior to pale people the natives were basically peaceful hunter gatherers.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:34 pm 
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Idaho Lawmakers Are Trying Again To Scrub Climate Change From Education Standards

State legislators are “endangering us and our children,” one climate scientist says.

Republican members of an Idaho House panel voted Wednesday to exclude near-universally accepted science showing that human activity is driving global climate change from the state’s newly revised education standards.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/id ... s_politics


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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:23 am 
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wow, this was very good. very good.
it correlates with the blue holes in lower bahamas where they found human skulls
animal bones carbon fires, people lived there...300ft below todays ocean surface
which was drawn upwards into a glacier across the north atlantic leaving so much land open.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/ ... d=47713762
First Face of America

Discover remains of a 13,000 year-old teenager in an underwater cave in Mexico.
Aired February 7, 2018 on PBS

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:45 am 
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the UK part of earth.

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/dna-sh ... blue-eyes/
The first modern Briton had dark skin and blue eyes, London scientists said on Wednesday, following groundbreaking DNA analysis of the remains of a man who lived 10,000 years ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:34 am 
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Asteroid set for 'close' 43,300 mile flight past Earth on Friday

An asteroid up to 40m in size and only discovered five days ago, is due to skim past the Earth on Friday.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-43006161


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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Yes, the issue with asteroids is that sometimes they just appear. I remember the last near miss, when we were assured it wouldn't hit the Earth. It didn't, but while every instrument was trained on it, another one did somewhere else. Quite the bang in Russia. The thing blew up in a very respectable explosion, and a few pieces made it to the ground.

Yes, BBC also had pictures of the reconstructed Cheddar Man. Cutting to the chase, let's just say he's a person of color.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:53 pm 
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https://phys.org/news/2017-05-scientist ... s.html#jCp
Scientists find 7.2-million-year-old pre-human remains in the Balkans
May 22, 2017, University of Toronto


https://news.nationalgeographic.com/new ... very-gene/
January 26, 2014
Blue-Eyed Hunter-Gatherers Roamed Prehistoric Europe, Gene Map Reveals

Apologies to Frank Sinatra, but the real Ol' Blue Eyes has been found—a 7,000-year-old Spaniard
whose fossil genes reveal that early Europeans sported blue eyes and dark skin
.

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Last edited by rainwater on Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Earth
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:45 am
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Oh yeah this will go over well not.

Donald Trump planning to turn International Space Station into commercially-run property venture

The Trump administration wants to turn the International Space Station (ISS) into a kind of orbiting real estate venture run not by the government, but by private industry.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 06046.html


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