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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:50 pm 
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OK ... but then stop telling the rest of us how to live our lives your way (that you don't live up to yourselves) ... that's all.


"You can't even run your own life, I'll be damned if you'll run mine."

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Glenfs posted about the Left's War On Women. Glenfs posted this after the Cosby Verdict "Gloria Allred is a media hound and an asshole. The most dangerous place to be is inbetween her and a microphone or camera". 04/27/2018.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:27 pm 
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The shameless self promotion of a "Moral President" dies at the feet of an immoral Man in White House.

The so-called "Christian Evangelicals" who have supported and condoned the immorality of 45 have made a mockery of their religious beliefs.

The 91% of all Republicans in Alabama who voted a Pedophile have no right to talk immorality, they voted for it.

Do not talk about the Sacred Union of Marriage when you support a serial Womanizer in the White House who boasts of the Sexual Assault/Sexual Abuse/Sexual Harassment of Women and Girls.

Don't bitch about being discriminated against when you march in a rally with arm raised in the Nazi Salute.

Don't bitch about being discriminated against when you stage a full demonstration against the removal of a Symbol of Slavery called "The Stars and Bars".

Don't bitch about being discriminated against when you want all Muslims rounded up and deported.

Don't talk about your own high moral character when the Man you support in the White House fucks a Porn Star while his wife is pregnant.

Don't bitch about how wrong it is for African-Americans to protest violence committed against them, when within our country's living memory there is a history of church bombings that killed African-American Children and African-American Men and Women were lynched because of the color of their skin.

Don't bitch about being discriminated against when you support the outright Voter Suppression of Minorities in this country.

Don't bitch about how you are being discriminated against based upon your religion, when Synagogue's and Mosques' are defaced, fire bombed and torched.

Your skin color and your own religious practice in no way entitles you to be treated different nor does it make you somehow special, nor does it give you the right the to treat people who do not engage in the same religious practice as less than equal in the eye of same Mystical Magical Non-Existent you both claim to worship.

You want Respect?

You want Trust?

Respect and Trust are earned, not given.

As near as I can tell, way to many so-called "Christians" demand respect and trust, but are do little to earn them.

Or to put another way, as told to me by my Senior Drill Instructor.

"You cannot make Chicken Soup, out of Chicken Shit".

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Glenfs posted about the Left's War On Women. Glenfs posted this after the Cosby Verdict "Gloria Allred is a media hound and an asshole. The most dangerous place to be is inbetween her and a microphone or camera". 04/27/2018.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:49 pm 
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But Muslims!


How hard do you think it would be to do a google search and find individuals in the Black,Gay,liberal communities doing bad things.
Shortly is a bad person and if guilty will be punished for his crimes. You linking his crimes to any group as a whole is as ignorant as those in the rw community who would believe that because some gays are bad people and do bad things all gays are bad people.

Fact is because there are millions of rw ers some are going to be bad people. Exactly the same as Blacks ,Gays and lesbians.


:roll:

Broaden your categories and stop thinking in facile, simple-minded boxes. There are rw "Blacks, Gays and lesbians" and a whole slew of the rest of the white rw grifters, as well.

They are not mutually exclusive categories except to someone drowning in a miserable, segregationist whites-only world.

Set aside that conservative-white resentment, take some of that infamous personal responsibility you all preach at everyone else, and do something to better your f'd up culture of racist, violent, gay-hating mass murderers.

Quote:
Exactly the same as Blacks ,Gays and lesbians.


:roll:

This dumb equivocation, again.

It might be one thing if "Blacks" had any history of enslaving everyone else, genociding the people who were here before we got here, shutting non-Blacks out of immigration, shoving everyone else into segregated hovels, shutting you out of education, home loans, and rental agreements.

All while banging a Bible.

It might be another thing if "gays and lesbians" -- with the exception of your president's mentor Roy Cohn -- had a history of forbidding heterosexuals to marry or adopt, subjecting you to electric shock treatment and "conversion therapy" to force you into homosexuality, shutting you out of the military because you sleep with the opposite sex, cramming you into mental institutions because who in their right mind would like the opposite sex, anyway; murdering you because you wear the "wrong" clothes, and shutting you out of rest rooms because, you know, the children...:problem:

All while banging a Bible.

Out of the 6,000 Christian sects and denominations, you cannot name ONE that refuses to ordain or marry heterosexuals based on the fact of them being attracted to the opposite sex. Not a one, because none exist. (You can't even name ONE majority-gay denomination, though there are two. Out of 6,000.)

But, as you know as well as I do, "Blacks, Gays and Lesbians" do not have any of this history. You do. And to this day, you're intent on perpetuating it.

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:53 pm 
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So now from the mystery poster, in addition to "both parties do it" we get a momentarily "both religions do it." Which will last until in another thread he says "no only they do it, we don't do it."


Talk about motes and beams...

"Hey! Why aren't you overfocused like I am on a religious minority of 2% of the population! SO WHAT if white conservative Christians have been the largest religious majority for 400 years, have made the country's most f'ed up laws, and cock up everything else they touch! why aren't you focusing in the Muslims, which I have been taught by white conservative Christianity to despise as if it is The Devil himself!!!!!"

:problem:

Then they wonder why nobody takes them seriously.

dumb bigots

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:10 pm 
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These are the stories that make the news. Parishoner-on-parishoner sexual violence doesn't make the news.

Winter Haven church pastor arrested for improper sexual conduct with two minors - ABC Tampa

Quote:
Pastor David Cooper, 43, of Moving Mountains Ministries in Winter Haven was arrested for the sexual battery of a girl under the age of twelve, and lewd exhibition with another girl under twelve, according to the Polk County Sheriff's office.

Officials began to investigate the pastor in September 2017 when deputies responded to Winter Haven Hospital regarding a possible sexual abuse of a girl under the age of twelve. A forensic interview with the girl did reveal that Cooper had exposed himself to her on four occasions in the past year.

Investigators later discovered that there may have been a second victim. That person, who is now an adult, said that Cooper sexually abused her numerous times when she was a child, to include sexual intercourse at least five times when she was between 10 and 12 years old.


These same men will tell you that there is danger in bathrooms from men in dresses, though. :roll: :problem:

The standard-bearer for glen's party tells you to vote for them.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:17 pm 
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These are the stories that make the news. Parishoner-on-parishoner sexual violence doesn't make the news.

Winter Haven church pastor arrested for improper sexual conduct with two minors - ABC Tampa



These same men will tell you that there is danger in bathrooms from men in dresses, though. :roll: :problem:

The standard-bearer for glen's party tells you to vote for them.


So-Called "Christian" Values must include being a pervert.

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Glenfs posted about the Left's War On Women. Glenfs posted this after the Cosby Verdict "Gloria Allred is a media hound and an asshole. The most dangerous place to be is inbetween her and a microphone or camera". 04/27/2018.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:36 pm 
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So-Called "Christian" Values must include being a pervert.


Well, the conservative ones, anyway.

Liberal Christians generally don't behave this way, not that they're all saints but because they just don't have these patriarchal wifebeater, authoritarian, boxed-in, misery-making beliefs.

Sexual perversion, sexual hypocrisy, sexual abuse, and sexual violence are holy sacraments to too many conservative Christian males. They think it's their right.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:59 pm 
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But the Muslims!

Quincy pastor arrested and accused of "indecent liberties with child" - KHQA

Quote:
Quincy police have arrested a Quincy pastor for seven felony warrants out of Virginia Beach, Virginia.

According to the Quincy Police Department, Todd Shane Tomko, 54, is accused of "indecent liberties with child."

He's listed as a pastor of Parkview Church on South 8th Street in Quincy.

Tomko was taken to the Adams County Jail.

The pastor served more than 30 years in the U.S. Marine Corps as Col. T. Shane “Rhino” Tomko.

According to a 2016 article by USMC Life, "Marine Corps officials filed criminal sex abuse charges against the former Wounded Warrior Battalion commanding officer Col. T. Shane Tomko" for separate allegations in March 2016.

KHQA last interviewed Tomko on Dec. 24, 2016 for a feature story about a Christmas Eve performance.

KHQA left a message for Parkview Church Wednesday night after arrest details were made public.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:05 pm 
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Hey look! It's a Latino! They do bad things, toooooo!

www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


:problem:

Put the simple term "pastor arrested" in a Google search.

Everything that comes up is about sexual violence, sexual abuse, and rape by conservative Christian males. Wonder why that is.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:26 pm 
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But, lets not ignore that on the other side of the World there are a handful of countries who stone Gays to death.



Off topic glen, way off topic.

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Glenfs posted about the Left's War On Women. Glenfs posted this after the Cosby Verdict "Gloria Allred is a media hound and an asshole. The most dangerous place to be is inbetween her and a microphone or camera". 04/27/2018.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:37 pm 
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Off topic glen, way off topic.


Classic deflection, because glen does not have the integrity to discuss the miseries his own chosen lifestyle has perpetuated for 400+ years, right here at home.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:41 pm 
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white
conservative
Christian
heterosexual
violent
male

This dumb Republican nazi is running to unseat Paul Ryan, pliant, cowed, fascist-lite.

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:11 pm 
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Detroit area has a lot of muslims, some are very conservative some are not at all but there isnt that constant pressure to declare them as the duke a#1 like there is with the aggressively prideful type christians. I personally dont want a dominate religion. its good for religion and government both if any religion or no religion at all is equal. its good to be free to walk away if a religion becomes some awful nightmare or to go elswhere or even nowhere at all if thats what suits you.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:20 pm 
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Off topic glen, way off topic.


So I guess your new meme is going to be any opposing view on any topic is going to be declared as being off topic....sigh

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:47 pm 
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But the Muslims!


So I guess your new meme is going to be any opposing view on any topic is going to be declared as being off topic....sigh


No, pointing out your failed deflection tactics isn't a meme.

You're not oppressed; your culture is the perp. Always has been. You are in a position to change that.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:50 pm 
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So I guess your new meme is going to be any opposing view on any topic is going to be declared as being off topic....sigh


You attempted deflect/derail/hijack this thread by injecting actions taken by a person or persons unknown living in foreign countries. You were off topic and you are off topic now.

It not an opposing view glen, it was that you tried and failed to introduce outside actors and failed.

Off Topic.

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Glenfs posted about the Left's War On Women. Glenfs posted this after the Cosby Verdict "Gloria Allred is a media hound and an asshole. The most dangerous place to be is inbetween her and a microphone or camera". 04/27/2018.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:51 pm 
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Detroit area has a lot of muslims, some are very conservative some are not at all but there isnt that constant pressure to declare them as the duke a#1 like there is with the aggressively prideful type christians. I personally dont want a dominate religion. its good for religion and government both if any religion or no religion at all is equal. its good to be free to walk away if a religion becomes some awful nightmare or to go elswhere or even nowhere at all if thats what suits you.


A dominant religion is unconstitutional.

Conservative Christian whites, whose culture tells them they are the world's superiors, think this idea oppresses them since it means they are not legally permitted to oppress.

Also, we will rub their noses in the Constitution when they try it.

And yet, they insist on trying it, anyway, still, in 2018. #dumbbigots

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Unending ending need to prove "Christian" they are, drive them to forced their version of their god down out throats.

There is no State Sanctioned, State Sponsored, State Mandated Religion in United States. We are NOT a Christian Nation, we never have been.

Someday people will come to understand that.

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Glenfs posted about the Left's War On Women. Glenfs posted this after the Cosby Verdict "Gloria Allred is a media hound and an asshole. The most dangerous place to be is inbetween her and a microphone or camera". 04/27/2018.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:17 am 
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A dominant religion is unconstitutional.

Conservative Christian whites, whose culture tells them they are the world's superiors, think this idea oppresses them since it means they are not legally permitted to oppress.

Also, we will rub their noses in the Constitution when they try it.

And yet, they insist on trying it, anyway, still, in 2018. #dumbbigots
Carmen, while I agree with your sentiment (I usually do), I'm not sure you are accurate. A dominant religion would be extra (or non) constitutional. It is unconstitutional for the government to favor one religion over another (and some argue, accurately, I'd say, over no religion.).

However a dominant religion is a cultural, not legal, thing. From my perspective, its hard to are to argue that the United States, for better or worse, does not have a dominantly Christian culture. I'm sure the Christians in the US would say they are not all the same, but from the outside, the differences seem minor...and often unrelated to many issues some say are liberal or conservative.

So, like it our not, US culture is based on the people and their perspective and actions. I don't like many of the positions of the conservative Christians (or a lot of other groups for that matter) but the fact is that they will try to push their perspectives on the wider society, just a liberal Christians and athiests, and liberals, and .... will. Christian cultural domination may change, it certainly has and will continue to evolve. You can expect the conservatives will resist (after all isn't that the definition of conservative.)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:35 am 
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Carmen, while I agree with your sentiment (I usually do), I'm not sure you are accurate. A dominant religion would be extra (or non) constitutional. It is unconstitutional for the government to favor one religion over another (and some argue, accurately, I'd say, over no religion.).

However a dominant religion is a cultural, not legal, thing. From my perspective, its hard to are to argue that the United States, for better or worse, does not have a dominantly Christian culture. I'm sure the Christians in the US would say they are not all the same, but from the outside, the differences seem minor...and often unrelated to many issues some say are liberal or conservative.

So, like it our not, US culture is based on the people and their perspective and actions. I don't like many of the positions of the conservative Christians (or a lot of other groups for that matter) but the fact is that they will try to push their perspectives on the wider society, just a liberal Christians and athiests, and liberals, and .... will. Christian cultural domination may change, it certainly has and will continue to evolve. You can expect the conservatives will resist (after all isn't that the definition of conservative.)


Feel free to wordsmith as it suits you, but I took MC's "dominate" to mean state or state-sponsored religion, which is indeed unconstitutional. You're definitely right that this is an overwhelimingly and often obnoxiously majority-Christian-Protestant country.

The reason we don't have state-sponsored Christianity or any other religion is because Christians tried it the minute they got here, and started chopping each other's heads off like they did for hundreds of years in the old country.

The various differences might appear surface or trivial to you or others, but in 1600s colonial era, it could mean the difference between life, death, property ownership, holding office, etc. Oh yeah, and whether you were subject to having your soul saved through missionization and forced conversion. For those of us out of literal "minority" Christian traditions such as African-American or Native-American Protestantism, these differences really aren't minor, and they play out in significant contemporary ways like the Alabama/Roy Moore vote.

Christians of European descents' historic inability to treat even each other well, let alone non-Christians, will always go before them in this country.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:40 am 
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This country has a de facto Protestant religious majority. I say that, it's the "P" in the ethnic majority group, WASPs, White Anglo Saxon ... Ps.

In sheer denomination numbers, Catholics are the largest denomination, but that's only because there's 400+ Protestant denominations at this point. The total number of Protestants is still greater.

So, let's be clear, that "Christian" majority still has divisions within it, anti-Catholicism is not an ancient thing, there were people who said JFK should not be elected because ... Catholic, and that was 1960.

They may not be killing each other like over in Northern Ireland, but Jack Chick is still handing out his pamphlets saying the Pope is the Antichrist, it hasn't completely gone away. In fact, it really seems to be true, it's 'good' (not really) RW evangelicals and RW Catholics can unite over pro-life/anti-abortion because it gives them something to unite around.

Anyway, as far as it being an officially Christian nation ... well, besides establishment clause ... Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:44 am 
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Where it may not be wordsmithing is that this, in many ways, is more of a cultural conflict than a legal one (I'm certain there are exceptions).....Laws tend to follow cultural perspectives.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:58 am 
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Where it may not be wordsmithing is that this, in many ways, is more of a cultural conflict than a legal one (I'm certain there are exceptions).....Laws tend to follow cultural perspectives.


Well, I agree with that. I mean, I don't believe in miracles, but I could say the First Amendment is an inspired work of art.

Lots of shed blood went into it.

Without the Constitution being as strong as it is -- warts and all -- the cultural changes of the 20th century would have taken even longer to enact. So in that case, changing the laws meant an impact on the culture, which we've been experiencing 50 years of backlash against, at least.

But, you know what Nina Simone said about backlash... :)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:15 pm 
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That is what gets me. we read post after post of people trashing the shortcomings of the Christian Faith. Not to mention the constant mocking of it. But, we never see a post that is critical of the Muslim Faith. Or if we do it is very rare. I find it hypocritical of those people here who do that.


I think people typically post more about subjects that may directly affect them. Christianity in all of its various forms is by far the most populous religion in the US..... so it kind of makes sense that if people are bitching about religious people in the US.... the posts would mostly be about Christians.

Forgive me for making assumptions, but I would guess that I have not only met, but worked with more Muslims than..... the majority of people on this board..... that is not some bragging point.... it is just my personal experience.... kind of like..... I probably know more people in the Navy because.... I did 20 years in the Navy.....lol. Anyway.... point is.... There really no difference between fundamentalist Christianity and Islam, or even Hasidic Judaism for that matter. All 3 are Abrahamic religions. According to those 3 belief systems..... "Father Abraham.... had many sons...... many sons had Father Abraham..... I am one of them.... and so are you.... AS WE GO MARCHING ON......."

The difference is not in the fundamentalist religions...... it is in the secular state laws..... not in the religious dogma. That shit is the same.... well.... ok....a couple of differences here and there....some better than others on an issue by issue basis....

So.... if you REALLY want to get real about shit glenn..... when the pope was in charge of government in Europe.... how was that shit working out? All religions are fucked up..... let me rephrase that.... have the potential to be fucked up.....it is only the secular state laws that keep religious whackos in check. Do you doubt that women wouldn't be burned to death or drowned as witches if the secular state hadn't outlawed it as ..... MURDER?

So anyways..... now the snark.....I did several deployments to the Arabian Gulf (Oman, UAE, Bahrain, etc..), Malaysia, Indonesia....etc.... while in the Navy. Spent 4 years in Afghanistan.... October 2010 till September 2014. Met and worked with numerous Muslims, but I know a lot more Christians...... that being said.....I have a lot more Christian friends than Muslim or Jewish friends, but that has nothing to do with their belief system... it is a simple matter of..... there are more of them here. So glenn.... I would like to post an opposite post to your post.

I know literally THOUSANDS of Christians..... and my point is not to trash the belief in Christ.... believe what you believe.... Just don't try and legislate you religion on to me...... that is the problem in many Muslim countries.... they are like Christian countries a few hundred years ago.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:16 pm 
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This country has a de facto Protestant religious majority. I say that, it's the "P" in the ethnic majority group, WASPs, White Anglo Saxon ... Ps.

In sheer denomination numbers, Catholics are the largest denomination, but that's only because there's 400+ Protestant denominations at this point. The total number of Protestants is still greater.

So, let's be clear, that "Christian" majority still has divisions within it, anti-Catholicism is not an ancient thing, there were people who said JFK should not be elected because ... Catholic, and that was 1960.

They may not be killing each other like over in Northern Ireland, but Jack Chick is still handing out his pamphlets saying the Pope is the Antichrist, it hasn't completely gone away. In fact, it really seems to be true, it's 'good' (not really) RW evangelicals and RW Catholics can unite over pro-life/anti-abortion because it gives them something to unite around.

Anyway, as far as it being an officially Christian nation ... well, besides establishment clause ... Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli.


I mean, I guess I would prefer them voting in a bloc on some reactionary issue to them Counter-Reformationing, Inquisitioning, and smashing each other over the head with holy icons. :?

In the course of Christian history, it is kind of a stunning improvement, really. Too bad it's around restricting the rights of people they don't approve of. :problem:

The liberal denominations have also come a long way in a relatively short time, like the United Methodists uniting after splitting in a million pieces over slavery and Scopes, the ELCA Lutherans pulling together dozens of Lutheran groups; same for the United Church of Christ, whose Evangelical and Reformed history is every bit as dizzying as the ELCA. Ecumenecism has gone a long way, especially post WWII and beyond, to bring some of these same denoms to the same communion table. And this is just in the US. These shared ties have grown deeper, worldwide with historically related church bodies. It's one of the real stregnths of the liberal Protestants.

And one thing we don't really have to deal with here (US) is Catholic vs. Orthodox. Some of the most violent atrocities in history happened with Serbians and Croatians....to the extent that the Third Reich had to go investigate it. :? :? :? :? :?

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