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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:35 pm 
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warning :video of what the kids experienced that day
https://twitter.com/JSavoly/status/964109880972988417


Yeah, they don't care. They don't even care when it's 6 year olds.

They also scream at everyone in earshot how prolife they are....when it means getting the government to force pregnancies, and they're small government until it means getting the government to match your private parts to what's on your birth certificate. :problem:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:08 am 
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Kentucky Moves To Add Guns To Schools After School Shooting

The school shooting in Parkland, Fla., that took 17 lives followed one in rural western Kentucky by three weeks. The Kentucky shooter killed two high school sophomores and injured 18 other people.

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/20/58736851 ... l-shooting


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 am 
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The NRA is being supported by these companies

As the National Rifle Association grows increasingly out of touch with most American gun owners, the organization still claims “more than five million members.” A number of corporations are making membership to the group, which opposes nearly all gun safety legislation, more enticing by partnering with the NRA.

https://thinkprogress.org/corporations- ... 8074f2ca7/

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:33 pm 
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Putnam County town proposes controversial gun storage law

PHILIPSTOWN, Putnam County (WABC) -- The Philipstown town board is set to vote on a new ordinance requiring gun owners to secure their firearms when not at home.

http://abc7ny.com/putnam-county-town-pr ... w/3120112/


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:33 pm 
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*sigh*. A listening session where he didn't listen, and relied on pre-written notes. Quel surprise.

Trump Proposes Arming School Staff: ‘It Could Very Well Solve Your Problem’
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ ... ur-problem

President Donald Trump said Wednesday that having more people armed at schools could prevent future mass shootings.

“I think it could very well solve your problem,” he said.


After hearing the devastating stories from parents and young people affected by gun massacres at schools, Trump pointed to the example of Stoneman Douglas football coach Aaron Feis, who was reportedly killed by the alleged gunman last week after Feis threw himself in front of students to protect them from the gunfire.

“If the coach had a firearm in his locker when he ran at this guy — that coach was very brave, saved a lot of lives I suspect — but if he had a firearm, he wouldn’t have had to run, he would have shot and that would have been the end of it,” Trump said.

“Gun-free zone, to a maniac — because they’re all cowards — a gun-free zone is ‘Let’s go in and let’s attack, because bullets aren’t coming back at us,” Trump said, wondering aloud about arming “20 percent of your teaching force.”

[snip][end]

So, now, teacher training will involve trips to the gun range. Yay!

What heat should I pack at the start of every day in the classroom? I'm thinking an Uzi.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:54 pm 
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*sigh*. A listening session where he didn't listen, and relied on pre-written notes. Quel surprise.

Trump Proposes Arming School Staff: ‘It Could Very Well Solve Your Problem’
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ ... ur-problem

President Donald Trump said Wednesday that having more people armed at schools could prevent future mass shootings.

“I think it could very well solve your problem,” he said.


After hearing the devastating stories from parents and young people affected by gun massacres at schools, Trump pointed to the example of Stoneman Douglas football coach Aaron Feis, who was reportedly killed by the alleged gunman last week after Feis threw himself in front of students to protect them from the gunfire.

“If the coach had a firearm in his locker when he ran at this guy — that coach was very brave, saved a lot of lives I suspect — but if he had a firearm, he wouldn’t have had to run, he would have shot and that would have been the end of it,” Trump said.

“Gun-free zone, to a maniac — because they’re all cowards — a gun-free zone is ‘Let’s go in and let’s attack, because bullets aren’t coming back at us,” Trump said, wondering aloud about arming “20 percent of your teaching force.”

[snip][end]

So, now, teacher training will involve trips to the gun range. Yay!

What heat should I pack at the start of every day in the classroom? I'm thinking an Uzi.


Teachers have to shell out for school supplies, and now they have to buy AR-15s?

(Cuz you know these white conservative grifters won't get up off of one thin dime for anything funding a public school, not even their precious, exalted sacred killing objects...)

And what is with this 20% bit? Gee I wonder what he means by that.

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:30 pm 
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Just a small question...

I seem to recall hearing situations where Police have a gunman cornered and it takes many, multiple shots to kill him. What makes our Imbecile-in-Chief or any other conservative, “arm the teachers” fool think that teachers will suddenly be crack snipers under pressure? Hell, how many military score hits during combat? But the good guy with a gun will be a superior marksman.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:35 pm 
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Congresswoman claims most mass shooters are Democrats

Rep. Claudia Tenney, an upstate New York Republican who is up for re-election in one of the most competitive congressional districts in America, told a radio host in Albany that Democrats are more prone to be mass shooters.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-BBJqSIr


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:37 pm 
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Congresswoman claims most mass shooters are Democrats

Rep. Claudia Tenney, an upstate New York Republican who is up for re-election in one of the most competitive congressional districts in America, told a radio host in Albany that Democrats are more prone to be mass shooters.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-BBJqSIr

So...potential mass shooters want to limit their access to weapons that can do the most damage.

Okaaaay.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:29 am 
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'America is watching you': Young people hold Town Hall in wake of Fla. deadly attack

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The sheriff of the Florida county where a rifle-toting teen gunman killed 17 people told a crowd of young people Wednesday that "America is watching you" and that students should continue to push hard for gun control reform.

Sheriff Scott Israel of Broward County told a cheering audience at a CNN town hall broadcast that elected officials will have to make decisions that keep the community safe or “they are not going to hold office."

Israel told the crowd of about 7,000 people that he walked through the crime scene of a “horrific killer” 30 minutes after last Wednesday’s attack on Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla. He said he told himself, "Never again . . . There will be change."

The town hall broadcast began with a three-minute video showing family pictures of several of those who died.

Ryan Schachter, who brother Alex was killed in the assault, asked lawmakers attending the town hall what they plan to do to make schools safe.

Florida school shooting could be 'tipping point' in 2018 races

"My friends and I are worried that we're going to be murdered in our classrooms," Ryan Schachter said. "What assurances can you give me and what specifically are you going to do to make sure that we won't have this fear?"

Rep. Ted Deutch, D-Fla., responded that legislation needs to be introduced that makes the deadliest assault weapons illegal. He also told the crowd that it's not too soon to talk about gun law reform.

"It is not too soon, it is too late," Deutch said, noting that "weapons of war are in our communities . . . It is too late for the grieving families. The folks in our communities don't want words. They don't want thoughts and prayers. They don't want discussion. They want action. And we owe it to them to provide it."............

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:29 pm 
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Belen High student in custody for school threat

BELEN — A Belen High School sophomore is in police custody and is currently being questioned by Belen police detectives for allegedly making a threat to the high school on social media.

https://www.abqjournal.com/1136787/bele ... gn=1136787


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:52 pm 
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Just what we need. Teachers breaking out automatic rifles and contributing to the crossfire. What is the training needed to do this right? Do we send teachers to boot camp? Would that even help?

Should teachers keep the weapons locked up, losing their effectiveness in an escalating situation, or should they carry at all times? I'm sure the NRA would have no problem with that second one. Let's just have a bunch of people who trained as educators walking around with their AR-15s. Interesting educational experience, that.

Oh, wait, I have a better idea. Let's lock the students down. They come through a door, where they're strip-searched, then they go into a cage. We could get a lot of ideas from the prison system. Don't blame me when aptitude test scores tank and the universities make up the shortfall with students from foreign countries where school isn't a penitentiary. The price of freedom, as NRA would say right before they ask you for another donation.

------

Now we're in day-after mode. That's when every whacko in the country starts talking about shooting up a school, and you can't keep track of which campuses are open and which are locked down or closed. All over L.A., as usual. Some school cop heard a kid bragging that he was going to shoot up the place, and actually went to law enforcement and got the kid's house raided. They found two AR-15s, two handguns, and 90 high-capacity magazines.

This is the country we have made.

------

All this stuff has apparently precipitated another wave of televised L.A. police pursuits. This is when people who might or might not be guilty of a minor infringement like speeding or blowing a red light decide to run, taking the cops through the city at 100 MPH or so, and getting on TV when they're finally caught and taken downtown facing a bunch of felonies. The media stop everything for these. I've heard of ball games stopping while everyone watches on the scoreboard. This should be our demonstration sport in the next L.A. Olympics.

The one two days ago ended when the bad guy drove into a subway tunnel and bailed out of the vehicle. He was caught. The trains didn't run for the rest of the night.

The one yesterday ended when the bad guy called the cops on his cell phone and said he was going to kill himself. I'm sure they get this a lot, but this time he meant it. Cyanide. Whole bottle of same. Slumped over the wheel just like in the movies, then the car swerved back and forth and was finally stopped. DOA.

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Last edited by ZoWie on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:02 pm 
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CNN denies giving Florida shooting survivor scripted questions for its town hall on guns

A student who survived last week's school shooting said CNN gave him scripted questions ahead of a town hall event on Wednesday.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cnn-d ... d=SK216DHP


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:40 pm 
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Deputy on duty at Parkland school never went inside as shooting unfolded: sheriff

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — The school resource deputy at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School waited outside the school building as the shooting unfolded last Wednesday. Scot Peterson, the deputy, never went in after taking a position on the west side of the building, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said in a news conference.

http://pix11.com/2018/02/22/deputy-on-d ... g-sheriff/


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:52 am 
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I guess we're all upset about that Sheriffs deputy who cowered down outside the school while the shooting was going on inside of the school.

I figure he's one in four. One in four typical. If he had kind of slowly nudged up around the edge of where the action was but still didn't do anything, then he would have been one out of two typical.

He was alone. Heroic bravery comes with numbers.


I wonder about his gun. I wonder if it would have worked. If I had been in his position, being a lone cop wandering around among students in a crowed environment like that my gun certainly wouldn't have worked. Risk analysis would have dictated that it wouldn't work, so it wouldn't have worked.

I would be a heck of a lot safer, and all of the students would be lot safer too, if my gun wouldn't work. So I being a sensible person would have made sure it wouldn't work.

The greatest risk a cop alone like that would face would be someone snatching his gun out of his holster and shooting him and possibly others with it. That risk would be statistically huge compared to the risk a shooting would take place like it did at that school and the cop would need a working gun.

And to top that there would be the added risk of it just going off when a student bumped into the cop in a hallway when the school bell rang and the classes changed.

I wonder if we'll ever find out if his gun would have worked. I wonder if he'll ever be able to explain himself or what his just before retirement job entailed to others before he dies.

I'm sure glad I'm not him.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:09 am 
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I guess we're all upset about that Sheriffs deputy who cowered down outside the school while the shooting was going on inside of the school.


Not really. I hope no one really believes that if this guy had ADD, autism, was "mentally ill,: was strapped to the nines, mowing down everyone in sight and was Black in a "black identity extremist group" this officer would have stood down. :problem:

Some of us are deeply critical of the idea of school resource officers. Anybody in doubt can reference this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14472

They are not the panacea conservative whites think they are. They're not entitled to automatic trust from anyone.

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I'm sure glad I'm not him.


:problem: he can go jump.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:06 am 
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So, what we're saying is, a good guy with a gun (and in this case I think some training, too) didn't stop the bad guy with a gun.

So, of course, we can expect far more from those without any!

BTW, news stories this morning say - quel surprise - he has resigned, or been asked to resign, however you choose to interpret it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:10 am 
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Great, the cycle of violence continues.

The Sun-Sentinel now says deputies are guarding the home of the security officer, because of death threats he's received.

Don't get me wrong: of course he should have been fired, or "asked to resign" (same thing). Failed to do his job - that happens. He also probably has to live with some guilt and shame from the community - that's also punishment. He probably will have to move.

But come on? Now they're guarding him from threats on his life?

Everybody misunderstands an eye for an eye; but King was right about the misunderstanding, it only leaves everybody blind.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:11 pm 
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Ouch!

I posted a link to an opinion piece written based on Jefferson's comments regarding guns and rights. It is the singular most compelling thing I could find regarding that the verbiage does not suggest an individual "person's" right to own guns but a right of the people. Jefferson's position in the Virginia constitution talks of owning guns on a person's property and tenements. That is far from concealed or open carry.

So, since all rights are subject to modification according to Jefferson, we must ask what modifications should be made and can be made. A position can be made that the first start is removal of money as speech since the NRA funds congress critters at a fairly high rate and gets a high rate of return. The next thing is a combination of promotion of progressive candidates combined with debate framing on the issue. This must be tied together with what polls claim the public wants. The NRA must be shown to be out of step not just with the public but with the founders as well. The scotus decision is something else. Again public push back that the scotus is wrong in their position is needed. There must be a full on media blitz but it must be done correctly. Done poorly and there will not be the results achieved that are needed.



As I recently told Joe in a private exchange, I'm a bit tired of all the recitation back to the early writings of the sainted "founding fathers" (no women?).

Quote:
"Everyone is a textualist today." - Nominee Sotomayor

I'm not. I think that the founders would have been horrified that a country born of freedom and self-governance wants to take direction from a bunch of long-dead aristocrats. These were people who fought for the right of self-determination, and who were never intending to be the dead hand that ruled. They rebelled from that very thing.

Further, they weren't even representative of the governed masses (women, any racial minorities, religious minorities, gays, non-land elites). I believe that the Constitution was intended to live and breath, and it is bondage to hold communities that never had a voice to arcane whimsies. The founders were principally concerned with survival.

Yet, because the RW Scalias have won, and everyone is now a textualist,

In this case, I cannot fathom how the 2nd Amendment even applies to the states. None of the Bill of Rights applied to States initially, until the 14th Amendment. Why should an amendment intended to protect the ability of state governments to raise a militia be incorporated AGAINST those states in a manner that restricts states' ability to raise and regulate said militia? Through the due process clause of the 14th and 5th Amendments? Ridiculous in my opinion.

Beyond that though, we don't need anything but law that matches the American public's opinions. Assault Weapons bans, background checks, permits, and registration are all constitutional. Elect more Democrats, we'll get better laws, and even better judges in so far as we need to protect our gains. The 2nd Amendment is not implicated in the policies that most people agree on.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:19 pm 
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You posed a fucking question, I answered it. Catch me wasting my time with you again.

What are you talking about? I haven't even responded to you. I just walked away for a few days. I appreciate your answer. I've thought about it several times since Sunday. I decided that I disagree, but we probably disagree on what constitutes changing one's self. Either way I'm not in the mood for an argument by any means I guess my job requires that I believe people are able to change. I think changing self is related changing behavior. If you act good long enough then you are good.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:20 pm 
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Fuck off. You ask questions, I answer them and then you disappear. So quitcher fucking whining about it.

But nevermind your ignorant/arrogant behavior...cool...we won't give a blind person a driver's license but we will give them a FOID card. I don't know if a blind person will shoot someone who doesn't deserve it and neither to they.

Oh I see. That was not a response to your answer, since it predated your answer.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:31 pm 
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Well, let's see. Often we make teachers buy their own supplies. Always we make them take papers home to grade on their own time. We never give them very much money for it.

Now we're going to require that they regularly re-qualify on the range too?

Today's thing from the right side of the room is, "What's the problem? Teachers are already packing." Then for evidence they cite a few teachers in Texas. Texas is where an acquaintance worked in a symphony orchestra, but quit because some of the other musicians wore guns at rehearsals. Made it harder to concentrate on the music, she said. I can imagine it did.

Point is that Texas is not a valid example of anything. The valley has strange ways, as the guy said in Star Trek.

Just when you think this country can't top itself for self-parody any more, it comes up with serious suggestions like Mrs. Feeny in 3rd grade strapped up with an AR-15 while teaching the kids that 2+2=4.

I find myself wishing the Neanderthals had prevailed.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Well, let's see. Often we make teachers buy their own supplies. Always we make them take papers home to grade on their own time. We never give them very much money for it.

Now we're going to require that they regularly re-qualify on the range too?

Today's thing from the right side of the room is, "What's the problem? Teachers are already packing." Then for evidence they cite a few teachers in Texas. Texas is where an acquaintance worked in a symphony orchestra, but quit because some of the other musicians wore guns at rehearsals. Made it harder to concentrate on the music, she said. I can imagine it did.

Point is that Texas is not a valid example of anything. The valley has strange ways, as the guy said in Star Trek.

Just when you think this country can't top itself for self-parody any more, it comes up with serious suggestions like Mrs. Feeny in 3rd grade strapped up with an AR-15 while teaching the kids that 2+2=4.

I find myself wishing the Neanderthals had prevailed.

Generally teachers pay for all their own continuing education credits.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:03 pm 
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It goes without saying that, even though drumpf says that the government will pay for it, the teachers will have to buy their own range time.

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"Words are the new bullets, satellites the new artillery"
--"Winning CNN Wars," Army War College

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--"Wag the Dog"


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:06 pm 
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As I recently told Joe in a private exchange, I'm a bit tired of all the recitation back to the early writings of the sainted "founding fathers" (no women?).


In this case, I cannot fathom how the 2nd Amendment even applies to the states. None of the Bill of Rights applied to States initially, until the 14th Amendment. Why should an amendment intended to protect the ability of state governments to raise a militia be incorporated AGAINST those states in a manner that restricts states' ability to raise and regulate said militia? Through the due process clause of the 14th and 5th Amendments? Ridiculous in my opinion.

Beyond that though, we don't need anything but law that matches the American public's opinions. Assault Weapons bans, background checks, permits, and registration are all constitutional. Elect more Democrats, we'll get better laws, and even better judges in so far as we need to protect our gains. The 2nd Amendment is not implicated in the policies that most people agree on.

I won’t argue the point. I used the Jefferson example to simply point out that so-called originalists or as you noted, textualists, fail to account for the fact that rights are not cast in stone but rather subject to the law and the body politic. And Jefferson would likely be stunned that we still revere the document.

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"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus


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