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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:31 pm 
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No shit:

May 3, 1994

To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives:
We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.

Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.

The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.

While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.

Sincerely,

Gerald R. Ford

Jimmy Carter

Ronald Reagan


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:25 pm 
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One would thought that glen would have jumped on this....RR is his god.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:05 pm 
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One would thought that glen would have jumped on this....RR is his god.


I have been trying to avoid the gun debate as much as possible because currently they are 99pct emotional and 1pct substantial. I am hoping by next week we all could have a more rational discussion about the topic. However these days rational discussions about anything here are few and far between.

As for this thread about 6 months after signing the letter Reagan announced he had Alzheimer's.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:12 pm 
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I have been trying to avoid the gun debate as much as possible because currently they are 99pct emotional and 1pct substantial. I am hoping by next week we all could have a more rational discussion about the topic. However these days rational discussions about anything here are few and far between.

As for this thread about 6 months after signing the letter Reagan announced he had Alzheimer's.

So you are for Assault Weapons to be in the hands for everyone?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:44 pm 
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So you are for Assault Weapons to be in the hands for everyone?


No i am for them being banned. My only concern is once they are banned anti gun progressives will change the definition of what an assault weapon is.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:00 pm 
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I have been trying to avoid the gun debate as much as possible because currently they are 99pct emotional and 1pct substantial. I am hoping by next week we all could have a more rational discussion about the topic. However these days rational discussions about anything here are few and far between.

As for this thread about 6 months after signing the letter Reagan announced he had Alzheimer's.

You realize he also signed an assault weapons ban as Governor of California, right?

What's your excuse this time?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:04 pm 
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As for this thread about 6 months after signing the letter Reagan announced he had Alzheimer's.


A condition that might have already been manifesting in his 2nd term. (An issue I consider more significant than how many hours a day he put in.)

I can tell you, from observation, it's a "come and go" disorder, better and worse depending on the day, and I don't see any lack of lucidity in what he said in the letter. He might have had help writing it, but that might be true of a lot of things, even after leaving formal politics.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:06 pm 
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A condition that might have already been manifesting in his 2nd term. (An issue I consider more significant than how many hours a day he put in.)

I can tell you, from observation, it's a "come and go" disorder, better and worse depending on the day, and I don't see any lack of lucidity in what he said in the letter. He might have had help writing it, but that might be true of a lot of things, even after leaving formal politics.

I guess all those liberals around him made him sign it.

Now he just needs to explain the bill he championed and signed as governor.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Somehow I doubt that Ray Gun's stand on "assault weapons" was due to age-related dementia. That is really, really reaching.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:27 pm 
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I have been trying to avoid the gun debate as much as possible because currently they are 99pct emotional and 1pct substantial. I am hoping by next week we all could have a more rational discussion about the topic. However these days rational discussions about anything here are few and far between.

Just another variation on the "It's too soon to talk about it" NRA mantra.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:32 pm 
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I don't see any positions being put forward that are irrational.

I am not advocating what Ike does (*), but he is right about one point. A number of developed countries have already done what he advocates.

I guess you can decide whether or not Australia, the UK, and Japan have gone mad, or maybe, just maybe, have gone more sane.

(*) It's undoable without overwhelming Democratic control of all three branches of government, a SCOTUS which firmly repudiates Heller, or a repeal of the 2nd amendment. Plus, would encounter way too much resistance to work here.

I am OK with incrementalism. But you knew that. Let's take the steps we can.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:43 pm 
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I remind everyone that Ray Gun had been shot by a wannabe assassin. He was lucky to be alive, and he knew it.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:31 pm 
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If glen is attemping to use diminished capacity as a reason for RR signing the Assault Weapons Ban, I would remind glen like GoU did that as Governor of Californis RR signed similar legislation.

As for not wanting to discuss the matter of a full on ban of all assault, which I support after having over 18-Months up close and personal experience is combat carrying an M-16 I would say glen is copping out.

No one needs to carry an assault rifle, the only purpose for such a weapon is to kill as many people in as short a time as possible.

I maintained a qualification as a Sharpshooter with the M-16 and 45. Caliber Pistol.

I maintain that a person wants to carry a firearm, they should go through the same weapons training I took in Army and IF they qualify they keep a weapon in their home, with a trigger lock and be subject to spot inspections to insure the weapon is safely stored.

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Glenfs posted about the Left's War On Women. Glenfs posted this after the Cosby Verdict "Gloria Allred is a media hound and an asshole. The most dangerous place to be is inbetween her and a microphone or camera". 04/27/2018.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:46 pm 
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Of course, race was the reason that Reagan signed the California bill. The Black Panthers were carrying them.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:43 pm 
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If glen is attemping to use diminished capacity as a reason for RR signing the Assault Weapons Ban, I would remind glen like GoU did that as Governor of Californis RR signed similar legislation.

As for not wanting to discuss the matter of a full on ban of all assault, which I support after having over 18-Months up close and personal experience is combat carrying an M-16 I would say glen is copping out.

No one needs to carry an assault rifle, the only purpose for such a weapon is to kill as many people in as short a time as possible.

I maintained a qualification as a Sharpshooter with the M-16 and 45. Caliber Pistol.

I maintain that a person wants to carry a firearm, they should go through the same weapons training I took in Army and IF they qualify they keep a weapon in their home, with a trigger lock and be subject to spot inspections to insure the weapon is safely stored.

The military and police forces learn gun safety, how/when/where to use their weapons, undergo reoccurring live firing to be proficient in order to obtain gun certification and re-certification. There is a lot of training for the people we authorize to use deadly force but any Joe Blow can walk in and obtain an AR-15 in a matter of minutes.

Please note, in the military the weapons they train with and use are kept in a armory and not allowed to be taken home or to the barracks. Police forces take their handguns home and in small town police forces they can keep the police car at their home as well as the car's shotgun. Heavier weapons, such as M-16s, are kept in the police station. Police are well aware of the dangers a gun poses and they take care to secure their guns at home.

I agree with you a person should undergo extensive training as well as periodic retraining if they want to own any type of firearm. I'd also include a gun owner needs to obtain insurance to cover the cost of any harm the weapon does to someone.

One last item, the federal government should outlaw all automatic/semi-automatic rifles as well as limiting clip capacities to no more than 10 bullets. The federal government could authorize $20 billion to buy back automatic/semi-automatic rifles.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:54 pm 
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Of course, race was the reason that Reagan signed the California bill. The Black Panthers were carrying them.


The Oakland P.D. was shit scared of the Black Panthers, S.F. was just as bad. As I said before, I remember when the Oakland P.D. voted Huey Newton Most Likely To Be Shot While Trying To Escape.

When my Dad moved out the California in 1966, we lived in San Leandro, which at the time was pretty much a White Enclave. Dad would go to East Oakland once while to meet with local government (Dad was with the Parks Job Corps Center in Pleasanton at the time). He met Newton and ELdridge Cleaver. He never really saw them radical, the Panthers had a hot breakfast program and day care program. The Panthers also were active in Voter Registration and Outreach. He was one few White Men who didn't mind being called "Mr. Charlie", his first name was Charles and he would laugh about it.

The Black Panther Party for Self Protection saw the Police/Alameda County Sheriff as an Occupying Force. The East Bay in mid-1960's was heavily White with White's making a large part of Law Enforcement.

The picture's of Bobby Seale, Huey Newton, Eldridge Cleaver and other's carrying Rifles made White People nervous, no doubt about it. The Panthers devlolved into a Criminal Gang, but when it was created it more political than anything else.

Newton OD'd. Seale and Cleaver moved on.

A former Panther has a seat on the Oakland City Council, she is not exactly well liked because of her conduct.

What radical in th 1960's is just old and worn out now.

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Glenfs posted about the Left's War On Women. Glenfs posted this after the Cosby Verdict "Gloria Allred is a media hound and an asshole. The most dangerous place to be is inbetween her and a microphone or camera". 04/27/2018.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:56 pm 
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The reality of Ronald Reagan and gun control:

In California, Reagan threw his support behind the Mulford Act after a heavily armed group of Black Panthers gathered at the state capitol while the new governor was supposed to be hosting a group of eighth-graders for fried chicken, Winkler recounts at The Atlantic. That same afternoon, Reagan told reporters that he saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons." Mulford quickly added a provision to his bill barring loaded firearms from the capitol, except for when carried by law enforcement.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:46 pm 
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There is no doubt as to why RR signed Gun Control.

"Armed Campus Radicals", "Armed Members of the Black Panthers"....were daily staple in Bay Area News.

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Glenfs posted about the Left's War On Women. Glenfs posted this after the Cosby Verdict "Gloria Allred is a media hound and an asshole. The most dangerous place to be is inbetween her and a microphone or camera". 04/27/2018.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:28 am 
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A condition that might have already been manifesting in his 2nd term. (An issue I consider more significant than how many hours a day he put in.)

I can tell you, from observation, it's a "come and go" disorder, better and worse depending on the day, and I don't see any lack of lucidity in what he said in the letter. He might have had help writing it, but that might be true of a lot of things, even after leaving formal politics.


My mother has had dementia for years and your assessment fits her to a tee. If you caught her in the a.m. she was ok. As the day went on she would get worse.
As for Reagan impaired or not is a very partisan debate. One thing for sure in his last two years the job was to much for him
Something we all should remember with so many elderly lawmakers and so many elderly considering Whitehouse runs.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:32 am 
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My mother has had dementia for years and your assessment fits her to a tee. If you caught her in the a.m. she wss ok. As the day went on she would get worse.
As for Reagan impaired or not is a very partisan debate. One thing for sure in his last two years yhe job was to much for him
Something we all should remember with so many elderly lawmakers and so many elderly considering Whitehouse runs.

The bottom line is, Reagan was a strong supporter of gun control for most of his career. If you deny that, you're dishonest.

This whole absolutist view of the second amendment is new. Even the NRA was for gun control throughout most of it's existence.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:17 am 
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As for Reagan impaired or not is a very partisan debate. One thing for sure in his last two years the job was to much for him.


Dunno. There's a lot of people from inside the WH who said Nancy was running everything administratively by 1986. Including hiring and firing. And those folks are Republicans. Plus his own son. A formal diagnosis in 1994 doesn't mean there were no symptoms in 1986.

OK. But here's my position, as opposed to yours. Age-related dementia can appear anytime between 60 and 90 for those who have it. Many people don't and never manifest it. I agree the 70s and 80s appear to be peak years. My dad started getting it in his 80s. Medical science is still working on why, but that's all we know for now. Some get it, some don't. Dan Rather seems to be doing fine at 86.

I also think the energy level & stamina of people between 70 and 90 also relates to how much they kept themselves active earlier in life and continue to do so. Both physically and mentally. Now I'm not saying they'll win more Marathons than younger people -- that's unlikely.

So, unlike you, I'm not going to say somebody in their 70s should never run for office. Releasing their health records should be required of them -- and younger people. (I know, like taxes, it's not a law, just a "tradition".)

Retiring at 65 is a cultural tradition in this country. But people are living longer. And SOME are maintaining their acumen longer, too. If you want to keep working until your 80s - well, obviously, it's your choice. Some people may not have one as they have no retirement savings. :cry:

BTW, I personally hope the Democratic party runs somebody younger than a septuagenerian in 2020, just because; new blood, new ideas, enough with the retreads, nice contrast to the Dotard in the WH. (That includes Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden. No, HRC should not run again. I'm not against somebody younger from Bernie's Army, if they can get the nomination. I'd be fine with a liberal/progressive candidate.)

It's not because I think they can't do the job. Of course, we also differ pretty heavily on the level of Bernie's mental sharpness and acumen. And Maxine Waters' as well. I guess there's a partisan divide to those judgements as well. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:26 am 
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glen's views are at odds with themselves. For instance, he is (supposedly) against leaders serving after 65. I put in supposedly, because recently, upon news of Romney running for Senate, he said he'd be a great Senator, until he was reminded of his views on age in office, then he quickly backtracked.

But as much as he wants politicians to retire, he isn't in favor of a strong pension and Social Security system for working people. Of course, one of the ideas of strong retirement programs is to free up jobs for younger workers. Someone working into their eighties keeps jobs from opening up for people entering the workforce.

So, he doesn't like seeing people in the working class getting to retire.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:01 pm 
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You cannot have it both ways glen. YOU were the one who brought up the fact that RR had Alzheimer's well into second term as a reason for his signing Gun Control Legislation. Yet, you also claim RR was one the best Presidents since the office was ever created.

No glen, you do not get a free walk on that. RR had strong history of supporting Gun Control.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:29 pm 
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[quote="marindem » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:01 pm"]You cannot have it both ways glen. YOU were the one who brought up the fact that RR had Alzheimer's well into second term as a reason for his signing Gun Control Legislation. Yet, you also claim RR was one the best Presidents since the office was ever created.

No glen, you do not get a free walk on that. RR had strong history of supporting Gun Control.[/quote


I did not say he was afflicted in his second term. I said the debate on that subject is very partisan. What I said was that during his last two years the job was way to much for him. Which IMO is because of his advanced age.

People need to wake up about believing these elderly people we have running our country are up to the task. Trump sure isnt, I also believe that had she won HRC would not have been.

Pelosi seems to be slipping, Waters definately is and then there is John McCain who is 100% disabled and incapable of doing his job. But, like so many before him is going to die in office rather than do the patriotic thing. Which would be to step aside. Strom Thurmond and I believe Robt Byrd at a later date were living full time at Bethseda in what amounts to a personal nursing home.

I didnt enjoy taking the keys from my mom but, when it became obvious she was never going to step up and admit she could no longer drive I did just that. It is time that we admit these elderly people arent going to give up the keys and as a people take them from them.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:32 pm 
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[quote="glenfs » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:29 pm"][/quote]
Neither Pelosi nor Waters is slipping. You just hate them. Neither is the Notorious RBG, either. You couldn't keep up with her exercise regime.

And you keep running away from the facts of Reagan's record on gun control. YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!


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