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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:36 pm 
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glen's views are at odds with themselves. For instance, he is (supposedly) against leaders serving after 65. I put in supposedly, because recently, upon news of Romney running for Senate, he said he'd be a great Senator, until he was reminded of his views on age in office, then he quickly backtracked.

But as much as he wants politicians to retire, he isn't in favor of a strong pension and Social Security system for working people. Of course, one of the ideas of strong retirement programs is to free up jobs for younger workers. Someone working into their eighties keeps jobs from opening up for people entering the workforce.

So, he doesn't like seeing people in the working class getting to retire.


I would say nobody can run for election or reelection after age 72. For President 70. That should prevent people like Romney from running for a first term, knowing they cant have a second.

I was thinking about the Romney deal and I believe this. The GOP wants Romney to run because they want to use his demeanor as a calming face of the GOP as compared to Trump. In other words they are going to try and express to the American people this is who we really are. I hope it works.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:40 pm 
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At a certain point, I guess, certain personal opinions that really mean nothing, are no longer worth arguing against. :D

All I will say is to me age is just a number. People over 70 might be unfit to do the job, but that's why we'd need to see their health records. Some folks who are 30 could be physically unfit for the job, too if they've got some kind of serious health condition.

Anyway, like I said, I'm done arguing this point. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:45 pm 
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I would say nobody can run for election or reelection after age 72. For President 70. That should prevent people like Romney from running for a first term, knowing they cant have a second.

I was thinking about the Romney deal and I believe this. The GOP wants Romney to run because they want to use his demeanor as a calming face of the GOP as compared to Trump. In other words they are going to try and express to the American people this is who we really are. I hope it works.

He won't stand up to Trump. Let's remember that he kissed Trump's ass when Trump dangled Secretary of State in front of him, and Trump humiliated Romney. Sorry, Romney has absolutely no integrity at all.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:34 pm 
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He won't stand up to Trump. Let's remember that he kissed Trump's ass when Trump dangled Secretary of State in front of him, and Trump humiliated Romney. Sorry, Romney has absolutely no integrity at all.


I don't believe he is there to stand up to Trump. I believe he is there to literally be the face of the GOP in a public relations manner. Face it cosmetically the guy checks all the boxes.

Tall, square chin, good hairline, nice smile, married forever, religious and very moral, good dad and grandfather. If you were going to start a advertising campaign for the GOP he is the spokesman you would want. What I think will derail the entire deal is the conservative talkers who make their living telling idiots what they want to hear.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:41 pm 
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He won't stand up to Trump. Let's remember that he kissed Trump's ass when Trump dangled Secretary of State in front of him, and Trump humiliated Romney. Sorry, Romney has absolutely no integrity at all.



Case in point

Image

After recent endorsement

Image

I mean, that's just embarrassing.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:19 am 
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I don't believe he is there to stand up to Trump. I believe he is there to literally be the face of the GOP in a public relations manner. Face it cosmetically the guy checks all the boxes.

Tall, square chin, good hairline, nice smile, married forever, religious and very moral, good dad and grandfather. If you were going to start a advertising campaign for the GOP he is the spokesman you would want. What I think will derail the entire deal is the conservative talkers who make their living telling idiots what they want to hear.

Hey, you already tried that, remember? Actually, Romney is the face of the GOP. A GOP that is the party of corrupt corporations, a vulture capitalist that buys companies on borrowed money, sucks the wealth out of them and uses bankruptcy court so that he doesn't have to even pay back the money he used to buy them with.

A GOP that steals pensions.

A GOP that says "corporations are people too, my friend!"

Yep, that's the face of the GOP you love.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:08 am 
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Case in point

Image

After recent endorsement

Image

I mean, that's just embarrassing.

It just shows that Romney has absolutely zero political convictions. He'll say anything to get what he wants.

As a Senator, he'll be a rubber stamp for Trump.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:30 am 
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By the guidelines of current conservative Republican ideology, Reagan is a RINO.

The vast majority of Republican voters, the ones who are watching FOX ALL day and listening to Limbaugh all the time have no clue as to what Reagan's advisers were really thinking (and thus what Reagan was really thinking...which I'm really thinking wasn't much of anything during the last four yrats.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:40 pm 
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By the guidelines of current conservative Republican ideology, Reagan is a RINO.

The vast majority of Republican voters, the ones who are watching FOX ALL day and listening to Limbaugh all the time have no clue as to what Reagan's advisers were really thinking (and thus what Reagan was really thinking...which I'm really thinking wasn't much of anything during the last four yrats.

Ike, I get what you are saying but I must politely disagree. Reagan, the false god, laid the foundation with his “government is the problem” bullshit. Far too many idiots (read: American voters) bought into his bullshit. Thus we have people screaming about government until a hurricane hits their town then they are screaming for the government. The government doesn’t spring fully formed from the brow of Zeus.

Christ, these people are stupid.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Ike, I get what you are saying but I must politely disagree. Reagan, the false god, laid the foundation with his “government is the problem” bullshit. Far too many idiots (read: American voters) bought into his bullshit. Thus we have people screaming about government until a hurricane hits their town then they are screaming for the government. The government doesn’t spring fully formed from the brow of Zeus.

Christ, these people are stupid.


Bird,

I don't think government is always the problem. I also don't think that government is never the problem. Sometimes it is. The same could be said for industry. Both public and private institutions are run by human beings and so there are always going to be problems. I think there are things that our government model was designed/engineered to do. I think we get into problems when government gets outside those lines. Our government is designed to be deliberative and collaborative and that does not always lend itself to turning on a dime. Things get worse the more polarized and dysfunctional things become. Slows things down even more.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:50 pm 
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U.S. Supreme Court Sidesteps Gun Debate, Rejects Two Appeals

The U.S. Supreme Court rejected two appeals challenging California gun regulations, steering clear of the debate over firearm restrictions following last week’s mass shooting at a Florida high school.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... gun-buyers


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:51 pm 
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Ike, I get what you are saying but I must politely disagree. Reagan, the false god, laid the foundation with his “government is the problem” bullshit. Far too many idiots (read: American voters) bought into his bullshit. Thus we have people screaming about government until a hurricane hits their town then they are screaming for the government. The government doesn’t spring fully formed from the brow of Zeus.

Christ, these people are stupid.


I think we agree completely.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Bird,

I don't think government is always the problem. I also don't think that government is never the problem. Sometimes it is. The same could be said for industry. Both public and private institutions are run by human beings and so there are always going to be problems. I think there are things that our government model was designed/engineered to do. I think we get into problems when government gets outside those lines. Our government is designed to be deliberative and collaborative and that does not always lend itself to turning on a dime. Things get worse the more polarized and dysfunctional things become. Slows things down even more.


We get into trouble because the people of this country are, in the main, a herd of stupid fucking cattle. The people of this country are getting exactly the government they deserve. They proved it on Nov 8, 2016 when they gave the White House to a sociopathic, misogynist grifter, and gave both houses of Congress to the most vicious Republican party in the history of the country. And we shall see if they choose to further confirm it on Nov 6, 2018.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:54 pm 
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Bird,

I don't think government is always the problem. I also don't think that government is never the problem. Sometimes it is. The same could be said for industry. Both public and private institutions are run by human beings and so there are always going to be problems. I think there are things that our government model was designed/engineered to do. I think we get into problems when government gets outside those lines. Our government is designed to be deliberative and collaborative and that does not always lend itself to turning on a dime. Things get worse the more polarized and dysfunctional things become. Slows things down even more.

Actually, the form of government established by the founders, a representative democracy or republic, functions exactly as it was laid out. Of course the founders didn’t consider the impact of money and they believed they were basically designated to govern as the “accidental aristoi.” The system allows for the proposal, deliberation and passing of legislation. It has, over time, performed said acts and created laws which have required establishment of agencies to carry out those laws. This is not arguing over detail. It is critical. The government performs albeit poorly since the advent of several scotus decisions.

What you are speaking of are governmental programs and agencies. If we seek to understand why they do or don’t work we need only look at human beings. ANY bureaucracy can carry within itself the ability to succeed or not. This means government or private sector. I will grant that some agencies do not react quickly. Others do. Social Security, the EPA, CDC, NIH all are pretty competent. Yet the party you support seeks to undermine ALL of it. You know as well as I do that that is unacceptable. And it is the entire power structure of the Republican Party from Paul Ryan to Mitch McConnell to Trump/Pence to the conservatives of the Roberts court. The ideology to which they cling has no basis in the real world. You would be better served being a conservative to moderate Democrat then continuing to support such theology.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus

The new motto of the USA: Unum de multis. Out of one, many.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Actually, the form of government established by the founders, a representative democracy or republic, functions exactly as it was laid out. Of course the founders didn’t consider the impact of money and they believed they were basically designated to govern as the “accidental aristoi.” The system allows for the proposal, deliberation and passing of legislation. It has, over time, performed said acts and created laws which have required establishment of agencies to carry out those laws. This is not arguing over detail. It is critical. The government performs albeit poorly since the advent of several scotus decisions.

What you are speaking of are governmental programs and agencies. If we seek to understand why they do or don’t work we need only look at human beings. ANY bureaucracy can carry within itself the ability to succeed or not. This means government or private sector. I will grant that some agencies do not react quickly. Others do. Social Security, the EPA, CDC, NIH all are pretty competent. Yet the party you support seeks to undermine ALL of it. You know as well as I do that that is unacceptable. And it is the entire power structure of the Republican Party from Paul Ryan to Mitch McConnell to Trump/Pence to the conservatives of the Roberts court. The ideology to which they cling has no basis in the real world. You would be better served being a conservative to moderate Democrat then continuing to support such theology.


I don't question that government functions as it was designed. My point is that government isn't always the best solution to every social concern because of the way it was designed. The Federal government wasn't designed or meant to be the solution for every social problem. Something running with "government efficiency" or "government velocity" is absolutely not meant as a compliment.

As for my party affiliation, I have friends and family in both parties. Quite frankly I am tired of all the partisan bickering and the demonization of everything and everybody on the other side. That is neither conservative or moderate or liberal. It's just an extreme point of view. I would be better served to be an independent that to adopt such a philosophy or ideology.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:42 pm 
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There is no doubt as to why RR signed Gun Control.

"Armed Campus Radicals", "Armed Members of the Black Panthers"....were daily staple in Bay Area News.


Today's version is their complaints about ANTIFA, whatever they think that is, and BLM. Whatever they think that is.

All of it is Birth of A Nation mentality.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:53 pm 
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You realize he also signed an assault weapons ban as Governor of California, right?

What's your excuse this time?


You'll hear nothing from any white Reagan-worshipping con on it because they know the Mulford Act was racially motivated.

Same years and context as Saint Ronald running -- and winning -- on repeal of the Rumford housing desegregation act.

Conservative whites think it's THEIR RIGHT to shut nonwhites out of housing. And when nonwhites take up arms to protect ourselves from the police and their homicidal vigilantes, conservative whites think it's THEIR RIGHT to simply enact weapons bans.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:06 pm 
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The Oakland P.D. was shit scared of the Black Panthers, S.F. was just as bad. As I said before, I remember when the Oakland P.D. voted Huey Newton Most Likely To Be Shot While Trying To Escape.

When my Dad moved out the California in 1966, we lived in San Leandro, which at the time was pretty much a White Enclave. Dad would go to East Oakland once while to meet with local government (Dad was with the Parks Job Corps Center in Pleasanton at the time). He met Newton and ELdridge Cleaver. He never really saw them radical, the Panthers had a hot breakfast program and day care program. The Panthers also were active in Voter Registration and Outreach. He was one few White Men who didn't mind being called "Mr. Charlie", his first name was Charles and he would laugh about it.

The Black Panther Party for Self Protection saw the Police/Alameda County Sheriff as an Occupying Force. The East Bay in mid-1960's was heavily White with White's making a large part of Law Enforcement.

The picture's of Bobby Seale, Huey Newton, Eldridge Cleaver and other's carrying Rifles made White People nervous, no doubt about it. The Panthers devlolved into a Criminal Gang, but when it was created it more political than anything else.

Newton OD'd. Seale and Cleaver moved on.

A former Panther has a seat on the Oakland City Council, she is not exactly well liked because of her conduct.

What radical in th 1960's is just old and worn out now.


San Leandro was a bit more than a white enclave. It was one of the most notorious Bay Area holdouts that retained race-based restrictive covenants after they were ruled unconstitutional.

That said, the BPP leadership was certainly a bunch of hot messes -- to some degree still are. There's still the Cleaver vs Hilliard/Newton/Seale/Huggins/Brown factions to this day. Much of that, as we know, was fomented by COINTELPRO, snitches, and informants. And the feds in conjunction with local police had zero compunction against literally murdering Panther leaders right in their beds. (For those who don't know, this is not an exaggeration -- look up Fred Hampton who started out as an NAACP youth organizer.)

Richard Aoki has an informant record a mile long...he's the guy who was a supplier of arms to the party.

Bunch of hot messes.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:16 pm 
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After every mass shooting, liberal whites breathlessly circulate joke-y memes that say things like, "every black man in America should go out and get a gun! then we'll have gun control the next day!"

The more thoughtful ones might even include something about the Black Panther Party and Mulford Act.

They don't ever go into the short history that followed, which was the federal government enacting COINTELPRO against the BPP.

No, they were not saints, Huey Newton turned into a straightup demagogue, and the Party were tone deaf enough to actually run around selling Mao's Red Book at the time of the venal Cultural Revolution. Nice going. :problem:

But I wish people would think about what they're saying before they say it. Joking about Black men purchasing guns en masse will not get them what they want. It would, however, result in the criminalzation of a heck of a lot more Black men.

We're just symbols to them, anyway.

:problem:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:14 am 
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After every mass shooting, liberal whites breathlessly circulate joke-y memes that say things like, "every black man in America should go out and get a gun! then we'll have gun control the next day!"

The more thoughtful ones might even include something about the Black Panther Party and Mulford Act.

They don't ever go into the short history that followed, which was the federal government enacting COINTELPRO against the BPP.

No, they were not saints, Huey Newton turned into a straightup demagogue, and the Party were tone deaf enough to actually run around selling Mao's Red Book at the time of the venal Cultural Revolution. Nice going. :problem:

But I wish people would think about what they're saying before they say it. Joking about Black men purchasing guns en masse will not get them what they want. It would, however, result in the criminalzation of a heck of a lot more Black men.

We're just symbols to them, anyway.

:problem:


I agree, I saw those memes and heard a few people say the same, caused me to groan, and a time or two to even snap "that's really stupid".

Now that I think about it, I haven't seen those joke-y memes circulating for a while. I don't think I've seen one of those all this year and all last year.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:18 am 
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I agree, I saw those memes and heard a few people say the same, caused me to groan, and a time or two to even snap "that's really stupid".

Now that I think about it, I haven't seen those joke-y memes circulating for a while. I don't think I've seen one of those all this year and all last year.


I've seen 4 in the past week. Never from African Americans but, you know, that's anecdotal.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:35 am 
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I've seen 4 in the past week. Never from African Americans but, you know, that's anecdotal.


I'm sorry to hear that. :|

Anecdotal.

This is something anecdotal. This photo shows the entire staff at that new news outfit Axios. I saw that photo and while it's not necessarily true or reliable, because after all it is my personal account, but I'm here to tell you that looks to me like a nasty swarm of wasps.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:30 am 
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I don't question that government functions as it was designed. My point is that government isn't always the best solution to every social concern because of the way it was designed. The Federal government wasn't designed or meant to be the solution for every social problem. Something running with "government efficiency" or "government velocity" is absolutely not meant as a compliment.

As for my party affiliation, I have friends and family in both parties. Quite frankly I am tired of all the partisan bickering and the demonization of everything and everybody on the other side. That is neither conservative or moderate or liberal. It's just an extreme point of view. I would be better served to be an independent that to adopt such a philosophy or ideology.

Here goes the "both sides" fallacious argument again. :roll:

The only extremist party in American is the Republican Party. Today's Democratic party is to the right of Dwight Eisenhower.

There is no equivalent in our history to today's Republican Party.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:12 am 
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Here goes the "both sides" fallacious argument again. :roll:

The only extremist party in American is the Republican Party. Today's Democratic party is to the right of Dwight Eisenhower.

There is no equivalent in our history to today's Republican Party.


i've been coming around to believing Ike has the percentages right. i can understand the frustration and anger.

To put it bluntly ....The overt racists i can half ass forgive. They know not and know not that they know not..
It's the other percent that silently rides their coat tails making them the force they are now that bothers me. They know and know that they know. That's the part that's becoming unforgivable.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:23 am 
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This is something anecdotal. This photo shows the entire staff at that new news outfit Axios. I saw that photo and while it's not necessarily true or reliable, because after all it is my personal account, but I'm here to tell you that looks to me like a nasty swarm of wasps.


Well Sam, the good news is, we don't always like the same stuff, but we do seem to share some dislikes. :D

I have your kind of visceral reaction to Axios too. I think it's mostly because when I see Jonathan Swan on that TV box thing you don't have, he seems like a real dick. That's part of it. Sometimes I'm like: "you're just reacting to his Australian accent." But most of the time, it's because I'm like "Yeah, he is a real pompous dick."

Then there's this. It's weird. Few other media outlets have run stories about Axios. I find that funny, because they tend to do that a lot. After all, they get to criticize the competition AND at the same time sell lucky charms. But there is this one, and I think I agree with it. Sure, it's New Republic (old school) taking on the upstarts. But does that make it wrong? :D

Axios and Donald Trump Are Made For Each Other
Mike Allen's scoop-generating newsletter is the perfect vehicle for the nonstop chatter coming from the White House.
https://newrepublic.com/article/142441/ ... trump-made

[snip]

This is best exemplified by Allen’s credulous approach to journalism. His proudly nonpartisan stance (he claims to have no ideology, and I absolutely take his word for it) is a throwback in this hyper-partisan age, as well as a double-edged sword. It allows Axios—particularly through its flagship newsletter, the successor to Allen’s agenda-setting Playbook at Politico—to present an often unvarnished account of what the White House is thinking. When the administration is in the midst of yet another debacle, this can be extremely useful. But in a White House where everyone is trying to kill each other and is lying every second of every day, the newsletter can read like a transcription of the delusions of the powerful.

This tendency would appear to be a part of Axios’s DNA. On November 30, 2016, VandeHei and Allen unveiled their great project, which they had been working on since they parted ways with Politico earlier that year. “Media is broken—and too often a scam,” VandeHei wrote in a mission statement that was labeled a manifesto, one of the company’s many genuflections to Silicon Valley. The manifesto contains numerous complaints about contemporary journalism. Stories are too boring. (They should be punchy.) They are also too long. (They should be shorter, unlike the manifesto, which is pretty long.) Websites are messy. (This is true!) “Readers and advertisers alike are too often afterthoughts.” (This one is also true, but it tellingly puts readers and advertisers on the same plane.)

[snip]

That said, its political coverage remains its most visible product. Allen’s newsletter is the face of the enterprise, and it guides the style and tone of the rest of the venture. The election of Donald Trump suggests that VandeHei’s manifesto isn’t wrong: People really are sick of business as usual, especially from corporate media outlets that are beholden to either ratings or their sponsors. But that doesn’t mean that Axios, which is sponsored by several large corporations—BP, Walmart, and Koch Industries are “launch partners”—is the answer. (Of course, Axios is hardly the only media company wrapped in corporate tentacles.)

It certainly doesn’t treat the powerful with all that much skepticism. Donald Trump, for instance, has yet to make a significant deal in office and has been removed from much of the horse-trading on the Hill, but he is nevertheless referred to again and again as a “dealmaker” and a “salesman.”

[snip]

The problem is that contextualizing information is one of journalism’s most important duties, and the Axios model has almost no room for context. Every post feels like a briefing, but if you’re hungry for more information there’s nowhere else to go. “One of the main challenges for me in following this administration is that there is so much information and there are so many tweets and quotes,” Laura Hazard Owen, the deputy editor of the Nieman Journalism Lab, told me. “Bullet points are less helpful in that context because there’s no narrative: It’s just information being thrown at you all the time. If there’s no organizing theme, it just becomes a laundry list of things.”

[snip]

Still, Axios deifies one type of journalism (scoop generation) at the expense of another (context), and the result is a blinkered experience. In this respect, Donald Trump and Mike Allen are almost perfect for one another. Trump generates a ton of chatter and Allen is an excellent stenographer of chatter.

The best parts of his newsletters are often (always anonymous) quotes from powerful people. In a breathless entry filed after Trump’s well-received speech before a joint session of Congress, one aide told Allen, “For once, we had the wind at our sails. We decided not to sh*t on ourselves.” That’s a good quote! But the problem with being a stenographer for the powerful is that many of these powerful people are extremely full of it. Furthermore, you have a White House with so many conflicting voices that it makes Rashomon look like an open-and-shut case. Yet Allen dutifully reports their words, which are then shuttled to your inbox before 7 AM.

[snip]

As it builds its empire, the danger for Axios is that it could become a publication for powerful, important people by powerful, important people. There are too many incentives for it to continue to transcribe the talking points of moguls in big business and politics. At a time when the two are dangerously intertwined, a credulous publication becomes dangerous as well.

[snip][end]

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