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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:19 am 
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The kind of country where corporations would have no legal impediments to this kind of shit...

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Go get the shareholders. You don't get to enrich yourselves while the workers get ass-fucked without even the courtesy of a reach around.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:16 am 
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Interesting...hard to see how they could justify the huge payouts (of course I know the claims, shareholder value, share prices, ROI, etc) while having consciously (I assume) underfunded pensions.

If the workers prevail, I wonder whether it will be any type of precedent for states (I'm calling you out Illinois which is probably in the same legal venue) which have consciously underfunded pensions, to the benefit of shareholders (i.e. the residents of the states)... and now are looking for ways to underpay their commitments.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:25 pm 
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This happening in Canada.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:34 pm 
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It's the same problem we see constantly...with businesses, but especially with politicians.....Make purchases while throwing the cost down to the future to figure out how to...or how not to... pay for it.

Sometimes its benefits...ie roads, social programs, military, programs for particular interests, etc...sometimes its in the form of tax cuts or 'incentives' for particular interests... Debt can be helpful and socially/economically useful, that's only when its managed.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:08 pm 
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> What kind of country do Republican voters want?

One where white people are special, and rich white people are the best of all. And where freedom is measured by the number of firearms in the country.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:23 pm 
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This happening in Canada.


And your point is?

I suppose I could ask this question about every post we see from this librarian.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:29 pm 
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> What kind of country do Republican voters want?

One where white people are special, and rich white people are the best of all. And where freedom is measured by the number of firearms in the country.


They want a country like we had in the 1850's where a drop of black blood makes one a non-human.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:11 pm 
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Reading this thread made me ask myself what type of country do Democratic Party voters want? But, knowing that painting with a broad brush is so frowned upon by posters at this site I realized that is the wrong question to ask myself. Because after all we all know that nobody here would ever paint with such a broad brush to paint all voters from a particular party as being of the same mind set or sets.

So I guess the proper question to ask would be what type of country do Progressive voters want. I believe primarily it would be one where there is basically only one party. Or if more than one all consisting of Progressives and those that are to the left of Progressives. One where opposing views if they be conservative or even moderate would be outlawed.

As for this Republican voter, well 75% GOP voter, I want a country where we have personal freedom with a sprinkling of social programs. One where if a man wants more he can work harder in an effort to achieve more. Not where happiness is guaranteed. But one where the pursuit of that happiness is guaranteed.

A country where high achievers are not looked at as an enemy of the state. One where people can accomplish as much as their desire and ability will allow.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:37 pm 
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And your point is?

I suppose I could ask this question about every post we see from this librarian.


Read post by Viewer that precedes mine. Maybe you'll figure out the reference, then again, probably not.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:09 pm 
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Reading this thread made me ask myself what type of country do Democratic Party voters want? But, knowing that painting with a broad brush is so frowned upon by posters at this site I realized that is the wrong question to ask myself. Because after all we all know that nobody here would ever paint with such a broad brush to paint all voters from a particular party as being of the same mind set or sets.

So I guess the proper question to ask would be what type of country do Progressive voters want. I believe primarily it would be one where there is basically only one party. Or if more than one all consisting of Progressives and those that are to the left of Progressives. One where opposing views if they be conservative or even moderate would be outlawed.

As for this Republican voter, well 75% GOP voter, I want a country where we have personal freedom with a sprinkling of social programs. One where if a man wants more he can work harder in an effort to achieve more. Not where happiness is guaranteed. But one where the pursuit of that happiness is guaranteed.

A country where high achievers are not looked at as an enemy of the state. One where people can accomplish as much as their desire and ability will allow.
Define personal freedom. Explain why countries with stronger social safety nets are not free.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:12 pm 
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I don't think even Scandinavian social democracies organize their society around the idea they want to "punish" "high achievers".

You can frame progressive taxation that way. I prefer to frame it this way: the more of society's infrastructure and resources you utilize, the more rent you pay for it.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:18 pm 
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Define personal freedom. Explain why countries with stronger social safety nets are not free.



Because common people like me do not have the freedom to live where and how they want. While in all of those countries getting what you need is much easier, getting what you want not so much. The cost of getting from point A to point B make it impossible to own land in the country.

They get their Bread and Circuses and little more. Own horses, dogs, cats, chickens, extra cars you don't need, pick ups that get poor mileage a speed boat, acreage comfortable home. Nope not if you are just a plain old truck driver. As far as buying a rig and going out on your own probably just as impossible.

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"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:20 pm 
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I don't think even Scandinavian social democracies organize their society around the idea they want to "punish" "high achievers".

You can frame progressive taxation that way. I prefer to frame it this way: the more of society's infrastructure and resources you utilize, the more rent you pay for it.



https://taxfoundation.org/how-scandinav ... t-spending

in Denmark people making $60,000 pay the same 60% rate the same as the wealthy.

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"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:31 pm 
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Danes think of themselves as very free, glen.

https://qz.com/860659/why-is-denmark-th ... 10-values/

Freedom: “Freedom is the fundamental value of Danish democracy. In the Western tradition the freedom of the population is tied to the freedom of the individual.”

[snip]

Liberal-mindedness: “Liberal-mindedness is based on the premise that all people should have the right to decide over their own lives. To demonstrate liberalism means having an open-minded and tolerant attitude and mindset.”

[snip][end]

You may not agree, but Denmark is one of the happiest countries on Earth, and one reason Danes feel that way is they think they are very free.

Of course, one of their answers there, as well, of course, was having a strong social safety net. From a certain point of view, of course, that safety net actually enables freedom.

Kind of like trapeze artists feeling free to do their most incredible stunts, knowing there is a net below to catch them if they fall.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:38 pm 
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Danes think of themselves as very free, glen.

https://qz.com/860659/why-is-denmark-th ... 10-values/

Freedom: “Freedom is the fundamental value of Danish democracy. In the Western tradition the freedom of the population is tied to the freedom of the individual.”

[snip]

Liberal-mindedness: “Liberal-mindedness is based on the premise that all people should have the right to decide over their own lives. To demonstrate liberalism means having an open-minded and tolerant attitude and mindset.”

[snip][end]

You may not agree, but Denmark is one of the happiest countries on Earth, and one reason Danes feel that way is they think they are very free.

Of course, one of their answers there, as well, of course, was having a strong social safety net. From a certain point of view, of course, that safety net actually enables freedom.

Kind of like trapeze artists feeling free to do their most incredible stunts, knowing there is a net below to catch them if they fall.



The dogs that live on my land and spend 16 hours a day in the dog pen I built are also very happy. When it is time to put them up all you need do is grab some dog bisquits and they sprint into the pen.

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"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:41 pm 
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Because common people like me do not have the freedom to live where and how they want. While in all of those countries getting what you need is much easier, getting what you want not so much. The cost of getting from point A to point B make it impossible to own land in the country.

They get their Bread and Circuses and little more. Own horses, dogs, cats, chickens, extra cars you don't need, pick ups that get poor mileage a speed boat, acreage comfortable home. Nope not if you are just a plain old truck driver. As far as buying a rig and going out on your own probably just as impossible.

So in other words because you research nothing you therefore know nothing. Thanks for wasting more bandwidth.

A couple we know live in England on a houseboat. They ride Harleys. They’re not free? A woman we know lives in Germany. She isn’t free?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:43 pm 
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The dogs that live on my land and spend 16 hours a day in the dog pen I built are also very happy. When it is time to put them up all you need do is grab some dog bisquits and they sprint into the pen.

Isn’t the same as a social safety net and dogs aren’t humans. They were bred and trained to do what you want.

Christ, you are ridiculous.

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bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:47 pm 
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And your point is?

I suppose I could ask this question about every post we see from this librarian.


On a conservative board I post at, in reply to a post which tried to argue that a President couldn't possibly obstruct Justice because it doesn't apply. I posted Trump's reply to one of Lester Holt's questions from last springs famous interview about the Comey firing.

I was asked, "And your point is?"

I answered that question with a question. I asked that person:

"When you were a kid riding your bike did you ever have some other kid suddenly run up beside you who stuck a stick into the spokes of your front wheel?


Last edited by Sam Lefthand on Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Read post by Viewer that precedes mine. Maybe you'll figure out the reference, then again, probably not.


The issue isn't where the fuckees live. It's who the fuckers are. But even more it's about pricks like you who don't give a shit who's getting fucked by the corporatists, no matter where they live.

And there's no guarantee that another 200,000 Sears retirees who's pensions were temporarily secured by a deal made a year ago with the Pension Benefits Guarantee Corp. But the PBGC was already underfunded by over $75 billion and if Sears and one or two other big corporations go under and cannot continue to provide the agreed upon additional funding PBGC itself will go under and the benefits for the entire 200,000 US Sears pensioners, plus thousands of others will, by law, have to be picked up by the taxpayers.

Oh yeah? Fuck that...says the librarian.

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Last edited by Ike Bana on Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:52 pm 
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The dogs that live on my land and spend 16 hours a day in the dog pen I built are also very happy. When it is time to put them up all you need do is grab some dog bisquits and they sprint into the pen.


Isn’t the same as a social safety net and dogs aren’t humans. They were bred and trained to do what you want.

Christ, you are ridiculous.


And regarding the dogs he's an even more ridiculous excuse for a human being than I previously believed. Why have a dog if you're gonna keep it locked up in a fucking pen for 16 hours a day.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Glen, can you afforded to buy land in Miami Beach to have your dogs and horses? If not, are you not free?

The reason land in Scandinavia is expensive because it is heavily populated, not because of their tax system.

And we don’t hate high earners. Trouble is, so many “high earners” earn it on the backs of low-paid workers. As my grandfather said “if a rich man says he earned his money through hard work, ask him whose.”


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:55 pm 
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https://www.joc.com/trucking-logistics/ ... 71114.html

Please note that just like in the U.S. companies exploit their workers with low wages when they can get away with.

Keep sucking that corporate freedom shit down, Glen.

You’re not free and you don’t even know it.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:03 pm 
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They want a country like we had in the 1850's where a drop of black blood makes one a non-human.


Ha, more like 1950s.

With a Fugitive Slave Law clause made into a constitutional amendment. :problem:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:15 pm 
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Glen, can you afforded to buy land in Miami Beach to have your dogs and horses? If not, are you not free?

The reason land in Scandinavia is expensive because it is heavily populated, not because of their tax system.

And we don’t hate high earners. Trouble is, so many “high earners” earn it on the backs of low-paid workers. As my grandfather said “if a rich man says he earned his money through hard work, ask him whose.”


I need to say something about this. We have this asshole Dan Biss running in the Illinois primary for Governor. We need to get rid of Republican Bruce Rauner (the lowest approval rating of any governor in the country) and what we don't need is our local version of Bernie Sanders fucking it up for us. So Dan Biss is a mathematician...a professor at the University of Chicago. He touts himself as the "middle class governor. So the first TV ad of his I see starts off with multiple high speed photos of Trump and Rauner (both billionaires) coming out of a xerox machine. Then suddenly Trump and Rauner photos are replaced by Biss' competition, the other two Democrats left in the race, Bobby Kennedy's son Chris Kennedy and Pritzker family offspring J.B. Pritzker (both billionaires as well). And the narration basically saying "I'm the middle class candidate for governor, there's no difference between Trump/Rauner and Kennedy/Pritzker. I'll make the billionaires pay their taxes." Every fucking TV add from this asshole is making his Democratic opponents out to be no different from fucking Donald Trump.

So this asshole tweedy math teacher is telling the people of Illinois that if you've managed to accumulate wealth...inherited, or self-earn (in the case of Rauner), you're a bad person and cannot be trusted. Yep...there's no difference between Chris Kennedy/JB Pritzker and Trump/Rauner. This is a steaming pile of crap. And I fear what's gonna happen is we're gonna end up with a bunch of miffed Biss supporters (read Sanders supporters) in their dreadlocks and birkenstockss who sit home on their asses on November 9th because they couldn't get the candidate they wanted in the general election...and we end up with Rauner for another four fucking years.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:21 pm 
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I have my doubts about billionaires claiming to be populists, but I don't hate wealthy people. Merely for being wealthy. Like GoU said, it's more a matter of how they got that way. Vulture/predatory capitalists, people who exploit others, scammers and grifters - yeah, there I have an issue.

I don't think we should have a progressive tax system because we need to punish those who achieve. You know who agrees with me? Warren Buffett, and he's not exactly poor or undertaxed.

One final point - while humans are animals, the earlier analogy about dogs was ridiculous, which is why I won't address it.

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