RadioFreeLiberal.com

Smart Voices, Be Heard
It is currently Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:12 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 82 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:24 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:06 pm
Posts: 12428


Because common people like me do not have the freedom to live where and how they want. While in all of those countries getting what you need is much easier, getting what you want not so much. The cost of getting from point A to point B make it impossible to own land in the cotuntry.

What's stopping you from living where and how you want?

Please explain how people in Scandinavian countries get what they need easier and what you want not so much. This statement by you doesn't sound like it's based in reality but upon your preconceived, fact-less, personal bias.

If the cost of traveling in the country makes it impossible to own land then whose problem is that?

Quote:
They get their Bread and Circuses and little more. Own horses, dogs, cats, chickens, extra cars you don't need, pick ups that get poor mileage a speed boat, acreage comfortable home. Nope not if you are just a plain old truck driver. As far as buying a rig and going out on your own probably just as impossible.

But owning horses, dogs, extra cars, a speed boat, etc... isn't that in itself freedom? If you're jealous of others who have these things then I'd say they don't own the problem, you do. We all have to make choices (part of our freedom) for our lives and to take responsibility for those choices. If you're dissatisfied with your life the person to blame is facing you in the mirror.

_________________
IMPEACH NOW, REPLACE LATER!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:27 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 16582
[quote="ProfessorX » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:21 pm"]I have my doubts about billionaires claiming to be populists, but I don't hate wealthy people. Merely for being wealthy. Like GoU said, it's more a matter of how they got that way. Vulture/predatory capitalists, people who exploit others, scammers and grifters - yeah, there I have an issue.

I don't think we should have a progressive tax system because we need to punish those who achieve. You know who agrees with me? Warren Buffett, and he's not exactly poor or undertaxed.

One final point - while humans are animals, the earlier analogy about dogs was ridiculous, which is why I won't address it.[/quote

I love wealthy people like Buffet and so many others who claim they arent taxed enough. You notice none of them say that they are going to take the difderence between what they paid and what they think they should have paid and donate the money to the US Gov't.

In cases like Buffet and Gates they claim they are for inhertence taxes. Then turn around and protect their money from those very same taxes.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:25 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:27 pm
Posts: 7746
Location: miles from nowhere

Prove it. Gates and Buffet both are using their vast fortunes for charitable purposes. While I have a problem with philanthro-capitalism at least they are doing something worthwhile. They are also encouraging other wealthy people to do the same with them. It is called the giving pledge.

However, like most things derived from the market wealth controls it.

Keep sucking down that market koolaid.

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:02 am 
Offline
Policy Wonk
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:37 am
Posts: 3205
Prove it. Gates and Buffet both are using their vast fortunes for charitable purposes. While I have a problem with philanthro-capitalism at least they are doing something worthwhile. They are also encouraging other wealthy people to do the same with them. It is called the giving pledge.

However, like most things derived from the market wealth controls it.

Keep sucking down that market koolaid.


they are doing something worthwhile to their own interest

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqbHi_jDF-I


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:08 am 
Offline
Policy Wonk
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:37 am
Posts: 3205
Don't be fooled — Trump's secretary of education knows exactly what she's doing

Quote:
.........A year after her shaky hearings, the limitations Democrats faced digging into her past paid dividends for DeVos, her family, and one of her favored corporations. On Jan. 12, it was announced that a company named Performant Financial Corp. would receive one of two lucrative contracts, enabling it to assist the Department of Education in collecting overdue student loans.

The announcement was a boon to Performant, who had spent a year locked out of the Department of Education's lucrative contracts. But perhaps more importantly it would provide a tidy boost to the DeVos family's bottom line.

Among the many financial entanglements DeVos brought with her to Washington, one was a DeVos family investment company named RDV Corporation. RDV was, in turn, tied to the Delaware-based company LMF WF Portfolio I LLC. And that confusing series of letters from Delaware was a financial backer of Performant.

Prior to DeVos being tapped as Secretary of Education, this was good business for the family fortune — the loan servicing company had already received millions of dollars in past Department of Education loan servicing contracts. Every time the company collected on a loan, they took home a commission from the Department of Education. Those commissions provided a little bit of profitable cream for the DeVos family's investment portfolio — trickle-down economics in the truest sense of the word.

It was a pretty good trickle at that. Performant's 2016 financial report noted that the company had "provided recovery services on approximately $8.6 billion of combined student loans and other delinquent federal and state receivables," including the skip-tracing of defaulted lenders, wage garnishment, and "litigation services.".........

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqbHi_jDF-I


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:15 am 
Online
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:24 pm
Posts: 16338


Was talking about this to a colleague last week.

It's worth it to keep in mind (I know you already know this, MC) that Betsy DeVos's brother is the top corporate mercenary in the country.

Adviser to Emirates With Ties to Trump Aides Is Cooperating With Special Counsel - NYT

Quote:
The meeting, convened by the crown prince, brought together a Russian investor close to President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia with Erik Prince, the founder of Blackwater and an informal adviser to Mr. Trump’s team during the presidential transition, according to three people familiar with the meeting.


Conservatives are grifters.

_________________


Stop calling the cops on us.



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:01 am 
Offline
Policy Wonk

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 2536


Because common people like me do not have the freedom to live where and how they want. While in all of those countries getting what you need is much easier, getting what you want not so much. The cost of getting from point A to point B make it impossible to own land in the country.

They get their Bread and Circuses and little more. Own horses, dogs, cats, chickens, extra cars you don't need, pick ups that get poor mileage a speed boat, acreage comfortable home. Nope not if you are just a plain old truck driver. As far as buying a rig and going out on your own probably just as impossible.


We're all free to live where we want. I'm a "common man", as you put it. I live exactly where I want to be. My only other choice would require more cashish. Oh well. Can't always get what ya want. All anybody is asking for is a national health program, pharma reforms, and Big Money paying it's way. That's some crazy-assed commie stuff there. Better buy more guns.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:03 am 
Offline
Policy Wonk
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:37 am
Posts: 3205

Was talking about this to a colleague last week.

It's worth it to keep in mind (I know you already know this, MC) that Betsy DeVos's brother is the top corporate mercenary in the country.

Adviser to Emirates With Ties to Trump Aides Is Cooperating With Special Counsel - NYT



Conservatives are grifters.


yea, thats interesting. Dont know if you watched Nicole's show today but she had an interview with an author of a book about depression and how miserable and cut off people are now due to things like the way life is arranged around money and how it squeezes out the good that might otherwise be. he quoted Jiddu Krishnamurti saying:
Quote:
it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society

and I always think of this when society or community go on a tear about being normal or different with the things going on.

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqbHi_jDF-I


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:22 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:57 pm
Posts: 10765
Location: Sunny South Florida
I can see what kind of country Democrats want. One with functioning infrastructure, and a progressive tax system to pay for it.

Republicans, I guess, don't want that.

Democrats to unveil $1 trillion infrastructure plan, seek reversal of GOP tax cuts to finance it
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpos ... fcbb6279f5

As the White House struggles to finance an ambitious infrastructure plan, Senate Democrats are proposing one alternative — albeit one unlikely to pass muster with President Trump: rolling back the recently passed Republican tax overhaul.

The proposal unveiled by Democratic leaders Wednesday would plow just over $1 trillion into a wide range of infrastructure needs, including $140 billion for roads and bridges, $115 billion for water and sewer infrastructure and $50 billion to rebuild schools.

The spending would be offset by clawing back two-thirds of the revenue lost in the Republican tax bill by reinstating a top income tax rate of 39.6 percent, restoring the individual alternative minimum tax, reversing cuts to the estate tax, and raising the corporate income tax from 21 percent to 25 percent.

[snip]

Although much of the Democratic plan would send money to traditional infrastructure priorities like highways, transit and waterways, Schumer highlighted less conventional spending priorities, including $40 billion to build high-speed Internet connections in rural areas and $80 billion to upgrade the country’s energy grid.

[snip][end]

So: unlike the Trump "infrastructure plan" (which still seems to be in a state of typically Trumpian virtuality and ambiguity as it's never been fully unveiled), this plan ... wait for it ... actually spends funds on infrastructure! (Instead of putting in a small down payment, and allowing the private sector to hopefully do the rest, probably mostly through raising tolls and fees on consumers).

And yes, it basically rolls back most of the tax plan to pay for it.

Also, BTW, it makes "green"/environmentally sustainable infrastructure a priority (unlike the Trump non-plan) - that's good, we need to factor the environment into our development priorities.

No, it won't pass. Even if it could, no earthly chance of overcoming the veto.
Yes, I would run on it in/for November.

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:28 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:27 pm
Posts: 7746
Location: miles from nowhere

they are doing something worthwhile to their own interest

Yeah, I think it was Mother Jones or The Nation that ran an article on philanthropy-capitalism. I also seem to recall there has been a book or more written about it.

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:57 am 
Offline
Political Junkie

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:01 pm
Posts: 873
Location: Home of the DFL
I can see what kind of country Democrats want. One with functioning infrastructure, and a progressive tax system to pay for it.

Republicans, I guess, don't want that.

Democrats to unveil $1 trillion infrastructure plan, seek reversal of GOP tax cuts to finance it
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpos ... fcbb6279f5

As the White House struggles to finance an ambitious infrastructure plan, Senate Democrats are proposing one alternative — albeit one unlikely to pass muster with President Trump: rolling back the recently passed Republican tax overhaul.

The proposal unveiled by Democratic leaders Wednesday would plow just over $1 trillion into a wide range of infrastructure needs, including $140 billion for roads and bridges, $115 billion for water and sewer infrastructure and $50 billion to rebuild schools.

The spending would be offset by clawing back two-thirds of the revenue lost in the Republican tax bill by reinstating a top income tax rate of 39.6 percent, restoring the individual alternative minimum tax, reversing cuts to the estate tax, and raising the corporate income tax from 21 percent to 25 percent.

[snip]

Although much of the Democratic plan would send money to traditional infrastructure priorities like highways, transit and waterways, Schumer highlighted less conventional spending priorities, including $40 billion to build high-speed Internet connections in rural areas and $80 billion to upgrade the country’s energy grid.

[snip][end]

So: unlike the Trump "infrastructure plan" (which still seems to be in a state of typically Trumpian virtuality and ambiguity as it's never been fully unveiled), this plan ... wait for it ... actually spends funds on infrastructure! (Instead of putting in a small down payment, and allowing the private sector to hopefully do the rest, probably mostly through raising tolls and fees on consumers).

And yes, it basically rolls back most of the tax plan to pay for it.

Also, BTW, it makes "green"/environmentally sustainable infrastructure a priority (unlike the Trump non-plan) - that's good, we need to factor the environment into our development priorities.

No, it won't pass. Even if it could, no earthly chance of overcoming the veto.
Yes, I would run on it in/for November.

Hopefully it has the same stipulation Obama's recovery plan had. Any job funded by the plan must use U.S. products. We had run out of steel with a waiting time of over a year during the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. They finally let us use an outside source of street lights and signal steel to finish the job with yet another stipulation. It had to be bought from a country that matched our prices, wages and environmental laws. The final street lights from our last ARRA job were bought from Canada. No tariffs needed.

_________________
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat. - Will Rogers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:15 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 16582
What's stopping you from living where and how you want?

Please explain how people in Scandinavian countries get what they need easier and what you want not so much. This statement by you doesn't sound like it's based in reality but upon your preconceived, fact-less, personal bias.

If the cost of traveling in the country makes it impossible to own land then whose problem is that?


But owning horses, dogs, extra cars, a speed boat, etc... isn't that in itself freedom? If you're jealous of others who have these things then I'd say they don't own the problem, you do. We all have to make choices (part of our freedom) for our lives and to take responsibility for those choices. If you're dissatisfied with your life the person to blame is facing you in the mirror.


You must have misunderstood my post. Everything I listed were things I currently own or once owned. Things a regular guy like me wouldn't be able to afford in those fantastic countries like Denmark.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:27 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:01 pm
Posts: 15254

You must have misunderstood my post. Everything I listed were things I currently own or once owned. Things a regular guy like me wouldn't be able to afford in those fantastic countries like Denmark.


What the fuck does a highly educated and intellectually curious jamoke like you know about the quality of life in Denmark? Obviously not a fucking thing since when it comes to rating quality of life, the Danes are among the most satisfied people on the face of the earth.

But maybe the Danes don't have a clue about how much pleasure one can derive from keeping their family pets locked up outside in a fucking pen for 16 hours a day. :roll:

Then again, perhaps I'm just being an arrogant liberal elitist and you really are the epitome of the "regular American guy". In which case this country is totally fucked.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:52 am 
Offline
Policy Wonk
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:26 pm
Posts: 1040
Yeah, I think it was Mother Jones or The Nation that ran an article on philanthropy-capitalism. I also seem to recall there has been a book or more written about it.
We had a discussion on this a while back.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:55 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:27 pm
Posts: 7746
Location: miles from nowhere
We had a discussion on this a while back.

Yeah. I also suffer from c.r.a.f.t. Can’t remember a fucking thing.

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:52 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:06 pm
Posts: 12428

You must have misunderstood my post. Everything I listed were things I currently own or once owned. Things a regular guy like me wouldn't be able to afford in those fantastic countries like Denmark.

It wasn't that I misunderstood your post, it's you wrote it so poorly that it made me and others think you were writing about yourself. As for the "regular guy" like you not being able to afford those things in other countries where did you come up with this? Have you ever visited or lived-in European countries? I have and I seen them have many or more of the things you have. One of the things you have to understand is Europeans have a different lifestyle and would rather have quality of life over quantity of things in life. They take more vacations than Americans and believe it or not, they have a higher savings rate as well enabling them to afford the same things you like you do.

_________________
IMPEACH NOW, REPLACE LATER!


Last edited by Number6 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:29 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:10 pm
Posts: 16640
Location: The blue parts of the map
The wealthy are just another class, but right now they seem to be the dominant class, to the point of becoming oligarchs. The rest of the current unease in the US is largely everyone else dealing with the fact that they've been systematically cleaned out and looted. The oligarchs have been very effective at controlling information flow, and blame shifting onto everyone but them.

_________________
"Words are the new bullets, satellites the new artillery"
--"Winning CNN Wars," Army War College

"One bomb was shown on TV, and the American people bought that war. War is show business."
--"Wag the Dog"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:38 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:57 pm
Posts: 10765
Location: Sunny South Florida
I should be clear that the reason I like Buffett has nothing to do with his philanthropy, though I don't reject it. Philanthropy can achieve many goals, my university has an annual United Way campaign, it does some good stuff. Where I part ways with the libber-right is this idea that philanthropy, especially religious giving, will solve all our social problems on its own. Or that if we have it, a welfare state isn't necessary .... obviously I disagree.

I also agree with Motor that some of that philanthropy is self-serving. Bill Gates' charity wires schools not out of the goodness of his heart, alone, but because he needs future properly trained Microserfs.

Nah, I like Buffett for his honesty.

Image

Also, of course, he has some good ideas about taxation; whatever he personally pays or doesn't doesn't make those ideas bad. ;)

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:34 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:01 pm
Posts: 15254

The issue isn't where the fuckees live. It's who the fuckers are. But even more it's about pricks like you who don't give a shit who's getting fucked by the corporatists, no matter where they live.

And there's no guarantee that another 200,000 Sears retirees who's pensions were temporarily secured by a deal made a year ago with the Pension Benefits Guarantee Corp. But the PBGC was already underfunded by over $75 billion and if Sears and one or two other big corporations go under and cannot continue to provide the agreed upon additional funding PBGC itself will go under and the benefits for the entire 200,000 US Sears pensioners, plus thousands of others will, by law, have to be picked up by the taxpayers.

Oh yeah? Fuck that...says the librarian.


And the librarian goes missing.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:07 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:36 pm
Posts: 174

The issue isn't where the fuckees live. It's who the fuckers are. But even more it's about pricks like you who don't give a shit who's getting fucked by the corporatists, no matter where they live.

And there's no guarantee that another 200,000 Sears retirees who's pensions were temporarily secured by a deal made a year ago with the Pension Benefits Guarantee Corp. But the PBGC was already underfunded by over $75 billion and if Sears and one or two other big corporations go under and cannot continue to provide the agreed upon additional funding PBGC itself will go under and the benefits for the entire 200,000 US Sears pensioners, plus thousands of others will, by law, have to be picked up by the taxpayers.

Oh yeah? Fuck that...says the librarian.


There will be a bailout for PBGC, there will be a bailout for failing multi-employer plans.

Only a simpleton would exclusively blame "the corporatists" for the broad ranging failures and mismanagement of pension funds. Whole lotta blame to go around. People making demands that can't be met and people making promises that can't be kept. And the big time culprit, change.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:12 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:27 pm
Posts: 7746
Location: miles from nowhere

There will be a bailout for PBGC, there will be a bailout for failing multi-employer plans.

Only a simpleton would exclusively blame "the corporatists" for the broad ranging failures and mismanagement of pension funds. Whole lotta blame to go around. People making demands that can't be met and people making promises that can't be kept. And the big time culprit, change.

Big time culprit. Hmmm. When pension plans are deliberately underfunded so the CEO class can make bonus that ain't change. That is deliberately screwing with people's lives. I grant that mismanagement can occur but that is not anywhere near the only reason that pension plans were underfunded. The CEO class and the money people/corporate raiders wanted access to the money.

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:22 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:36 pm
Posts: 174
Big time culprit. Hmmm. When pension plans are deliberately underfunded so the CEO class can make bonus that ain't change. That is deliberately screwing with people's lives. I grant that mismanagement can occur but that is not anywhere near the only reason that pension plans were underfunded. The CEO class and the money people/corporate raiders wanted access to the money.


Public Plans are far more underfunded than corporate. Businesses fail as a matter of course and people get hurt in the process. Sometimes it's an evil actor and sometimes it's not.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:30 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:36 pm
Posts: 174

And the librarian goes missing.


Get used to it. I have a very active life away from my computer.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:43 pm 
Offline
Policy Wonk
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:37 am
Posts: 3205
Home Depot to donate $50M to train construction workers, address severe shortage

Quote:
Home Depot announced Thursday that it will donate $50 million to train 20,000 people as construction workers over the next decade, helping efforts to ease a dire shortage that’s curtailing home building and driving up house prices.

The Home Builders Institute, the industry’s education arm, will use the money from the Home Depot Foundation to train veterans and U.S. Army soldiers who will soon be returning to civilian life, high school students and disadvantaged youth.

“It’s important that we support the trades,” Home Depot CEO Craig Menear said in an interview. “Not only do we sell product to professionals like plumbers and electricians,” but the company also partners with service providers that install kitchen flooring, hot water heaters and other equipment in consumers’ homes..............

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqbHi_jDF-I


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:55 am 
Online
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:24 pm
Posts: 16338

Get used to it. I have a very active life away from my computer.


Are you a sock?

_________________


Stop calling the cops on us.



Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 82 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group