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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:01 am 
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Prove it. Gates and Buffet both are using their vast fortunes for charitable purposes. While I have a problem with philanthro-capitalism at least they are doing something worthwhile. They are also encouraging other wealthy people to do the same with them. It is called the giving pledge.

However, like most things derived from the market wealth controls it.

Keep sucking down that market koolaid.



My point exactly, Gates and Buffet are protecting their wealth from the death tax. If they were truly for the death tax they would make sure their estates paid the tax.

What you are saying here is it is ok to avoid the death tax as long as the wealthy person does something with their estate which you approve of.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:38 am 
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My point exactly, Gates and Buffet are protecting their wealth from the death tax. If they were truly for the death tax they would make sure their estates paid the tax.

What you are saying here is it is ok to avoid the death tax as long as the wealthy person does something with their estate which you approve of.

It isn't a death tax. Just more lies from the right.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:59 am 
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It isn't a death tax. Just more lies from the right.



It is a tax on your estate after you die, a death tax.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:03 am 
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It is a tax on your estate after you die, a death tax.

Again, it's not a death tax. A tax on an estate is just that. It's just more Republican lies.

I think we should replace it with an income tax on inheritances. Rich kids should not get a windfall tax-free they didn't earn while I have to pay taxes on every dime I earn.

It just shows how Republicans look down on earned income. They love unearned income.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:07 am 
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Again, it's not a death tax. A tax on an estate is just that. It's just more Republican lies.

I think we should replace it with an income tax on inheritances. Rich kids should not get a windfall tax-free they didn't earn while I have to pay taxes on every dime I earn.

It just shows how Republicans look down on earned income. They love unearned income.



I like the idea on income taxes except what happens when the guy across the street from me dies and his kid inherits the land. It is worth 3 to 5 million. So they would be forced to sell to pay the tax. Which will drive down the value of all property.

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"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:10 am 
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I like the idea on income taxes except what happens when the guy across the street from me dies and his kid inherits the land. It is worth 3 to 5 million. So they would be forced to sell to pay the tax. Which will drive down the value of all property.

No it wouldn't. It wouldn't hurt the value at all.

Again, you think they should get free land. If I bought land, first, I'd have to pay for it, then I'd have to pay taxes on it. But you think the rich should all be tax-free. I keep asking how much you would be willing to raise your taxes so the rich don't have to pay any.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:34 am 
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I like the idea on income taxes except what happens when the guy across the street from me dies and his kid inherits the land. It is worth 3 to 5 million.


Good news. If that person really is living across the street from you, which I doubt, they will face no estate tax. Even before the changes taking effect this year.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing ... estate-tax

A.The top 10 percent of income earners pays nearly 90 percent of the tax, with over one-fourth paid by the richest 0.1 percent. Few farms or family businesses pay the tax.

The Tax Policy Center estimates that some 11,310 individuals dying in 2017 will leave estates large enough to require filing an estate tax return (estates with a gross value under $5.49 million need not file this return in 2017). After allowing for deductions and credits, 5,460 estates will owe tax. Over two-thirds of these taxable estates will come from the top 10 percent of income earners and close to one-fourth will come from the top 1 percent alone.

[snip][end]

An estate worth less than 5 million wouldn't have to pay it.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:42 am 
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They have found ZERO family farms that have lost those farms because of the Estate Tax. It is a completely false narrative.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:47 am 
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Good news. If that person really is living across the street from you, which I doubt, they will face no estate tax. Even before the changes taking effect this year.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing ... estate-tax

A.The top 10 percent of income earners pays nearly 90 percent of the tax, with over one-fourth paid by the richest 0.1 percent. Few farms or family businesses pay the tax.

The Tax Policy Center estimates that some 11,310 individuals dying in 2017 will leave estates large enough to require filing an estate tax return (estates with a gross value under $5.49 million need not file this return in 2017). After allowing for deductions and credits, 5,460 estates will owe tax. Over two-thirds of these taxable estates will come from the top 10 percent of income earners and close to one-fourth will come from the top 1 percent alone.

[snip][end]

An estate worth less than 5 million wouldn't have to pay it.



Shame on you for calling me a liar. I just looked it up and Zillow shows the property to be 97 acres and valued at a little under 1.2 million. Which is way to low as my land alone was appraised at 50k about 20 years ago when we replaced the doublewide with a house. I have about 2.5 aces. He also owns other land in the immediate area. Land that was the family farm then divided up between the brothers decades ago. He has cattle and sells hay. Is a staunch Baptist and lives a staunch Baptist lifestyle.

Sidebar he was raising a gradaughter the samed age as my oldest. After one time he wouldn't let her play at my house anymore. But, my daughter was allowed over there. My daughter grew up to ern a PhD. Hos granddaughter has struggled in life been married, divorced and has out of wedlock kids. Guess we wouldn't have been a bad influence after all.

Other than that he is a great neighbor how has jumped started my big rig in the past with his farm tractor. He even scraped our drive before without being asked just because he noticed it needed done.

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"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:50 am 
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Shame on you for calling me a liar. I just looked it up and Zillow shows the property to be 97 acres and valued at a little under 1.2 million.


I assumed you were presenting a hypothetical, and I was reacting to your hypothetical.

Anyway, that still appears to be less than "between 3 and 5 million," which would still be, as I said, exempt, even before the new changes take effect and raise the exemption even further.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:52 am 
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They have found ZERO family farms that have lost those farms because of the Estate Tax. It is a completely false narrative.


Don't change the narrative we are talking about the estate taxes you want to impose. It is wrong to say you can keep the family farm. But if instead of it being a farm it is securities you have to pay a tax. Just like Gates because he is doing something with his wealth you agree with his estate doesn't get taxed. But if he were doing something with it you disagree with, then no free ride tax it.

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"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:54 am 
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I assumed you were presenting a hypothetical, and I was reacting to your hypothetical.

Anyway, that still appears to be less than "between 3 and 5 million," which would still be, as I said, exempt, even before the new changes take effect and raise the exemption even further.



My bad, I have had a stressful week.

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"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:55 am 
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I assumed you were presenting a hypothetical, and I was reacting to your hypothetical.

Anyway, that still appears to be less than "between 3 and 5 million," which would still be, as I said, exempt, even before the new changes take effect and raise the exemption even further.

Down goes glen, in a tiny puff of smoke.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:01 am 
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Family farms almost never trigger the estate tax.

Mega-farms of the size you can see from space, owned by agribusiness, like Archer Daniels Midland, etc., maybe.

Anyway, it's not a death tax. You know why? 90% of people who die never have to pay it (or, if you prefer, technically, their heirs don't).

Returning to Buffett, what I like is his so-called Buffett Rule.

[wiki]
The Buffett Rule is part of a tax plan proposed by President Barack Obama in 2011.[1] The tax plan would apply a minimum tax rate of 30 percent on individuals making more than one million dollars a year.[2][3] According to a White House official, the new tax rate would directly affect 0.3 percent of taxpayers.[1]

The Buffett Rule is named after American investor Warren Buffett, who publicly stated in early 2011 that he believed it was wrong that rich people, like himself, could pay less in federal taxes, as a portion of income, than the middle class, and voiced support for increased income taxes on the wealthy.[4] The rule would implement a higher minimum tax rate for taxpayers in the highest income bracket, to ensure that they do not pay a lower percentage of income in taxes than less-affluent Americans.[5] In October 2011, Senate leader Harry Reid (D–Nev.) proposed a 5.6 percent surtax on everyone making over a million dollars a year to pay for new stimulus provisions, but the change did not go through.

[snip][end]

That Buffett personally engages in estate planning does not make me not like the Buffett Rule.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:05 am 
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Under Republican-backed changes to the tax code, income derived through labor is the highest-taxed in America. All income - whether it is through labor, investment, profits or inheritance, should be taxed the same. Mitt Romney should have to pay the same percentage in taxes that I do. At least.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:33 am 
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Under Republican-backed changes to the tax code, income derived through labor is the highest-taxed in America. All income - whether it is through labor, investment, profits or inheritance, should be taxed the same. Mitt Romney should have to pay the same percentage in taxes that I do. At least.


You are both right and wrong. Capital gains taxes are suppose to encourage investment in American companies which helps all of us. At some point capital gains became something totally different.

So if things stay the way they are I agree with you. However if we could somehow get back to making cap Gains what they were meant to be then your position would be all wrong.

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"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:53 am 
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You are both right and wrong. Capital gains taxes are suppose to encourage investment in American companies which helps all of us. At some point capital gains became something totally different.

So if things stay the way they are I agree with you. However if we could somehow get back to making cap Gains what they were meant to be then your position would be all wrong.

So, as a conservative, you believe that the government should interfere in the free markets?

:rw) :rw) :rw) :rw) :rw) :rw) :rw) :rw) :rw) :rw) :rw) :rw) :rw)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:59 am 
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[
At some point capital gains became something totally different.


Like when capitalists started realizing they could realize more capital gains from offshore/overseas investments? Or so-called "vulture funds"? Should we talk about where Bain Capital, Romney's firm, sank some of its capital? (Not always for productive benefit of U.S. companies, we might note.)

Or from derivatives trading, which really does seem to resemble gambling so much folks call it "casino capitalism"? Tranching toxic mortgages and reselling them ... led to 2008 meltdown.

What about those hedge funds? Even Trump made them a convenient villain on the campaign trail, but what has he done about them? Oh yeah: nothing.

So here's a thought, let me get up on my Leftist podium and point out in a profit-based system, people will pursue the most profit. If the most profit is to be gained from investing capital in things other than productive industry financing, they'll do it. You know what you can do to get people doing something different?

Stop making profit the central focus. ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:05 am 
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Like when capitalists started realizing they could realize more capital gains from offshore/overseas investments? Or so-called "vulture funds"? Should we talk about where Bain Capital, Romney's firm, sank some of its capital? (Not always for productive benefit of U.S. companies, we might note.)

Or from derivatives trading, which really does seem to resemble gambling so much folks call it "casino capitalism"? Tranching toxic mortgages and reselling them ... led to 2008 meltdown.

What about those hedge funds? Even Trump made them a convenient villain on the campaign trail, but what has he done about them? Oh yeah: nothing.

Romney is glen's biggest hero - and all he did was buy up American companies on borrowed money, charged them exorbitant management fees, sucked the wealth from them, stole pensions funds, and then ran the worthless husks through bankruptcy so he didn't have to pay back the money he borrowed to buy the companies in the first place. That's glen's idea of 'success'.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Don't change the narrative we are talking about the estate taxes you want to impose. It is wrong to say you can keep the family farm. But if instead of it being a farm it is securities you have to pay a tax. Just like Gates because he is doing something with his wealth you agree with his estate doesn't get taxed. But if he were doing something with it you disagree with, then no free ride tax it.

The republican mantra they've chanted for decades is family farms are being lost the death (estate) tax. That's false. From CNN last year.
Quote:
But most U.S. family farms are unaffected by the federal estate tax.

For starters, about 90% of farms are small -- meaning they bring in $350,000 or less in revenue a year, according to the USDA. And the median wealth for farm operator households was $827,300 in 2015.

Under current law, only those estates worth more than $5.49 million (or $10.98 million for married couples) even have to file estate tax returns.

And of those, only about half end up being taxable once all deductions, credits and special provisions are factored in, according to the Tax Policy Center.

In 2016, only 682 taxable estates -- or just 13% of all taxable estates -- reported having any farm assets at all, said Beth Kaufman, an estate tax lawyer at Caplin & Drysdale and former associate tax legislative counsel at the Treasury Department.
CNN

It doesn't matter whether it's a farm or securities; it's the dollar amount of assets that are inherited that matters. The amount over the federal tax deduction is what is taxed.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:47 pm 
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Betsy DeVos crashes, burns in '60 Minutes' interview with Lesley Stahl |Kaffer

Quote:
Betsy DeVos, folks!

The stuttering incoherence and total lack of even casual familiarity with the state of education back home on display Sunday night during the U.S. Secretary of Education's interview with 60 Minutes' Lesley Stahl?

That's the woman whose firm-but-horribly-misguided hand has directed education policy here in Michigan since the 1990s.

STAHL: Why take away money from that school that’s not working — to bring them up to a level where they are, that school is working?
DeVOS: Well, we should be funding and investing in students, not in school, school buildings, not in institutions, not in systems.

And that's the kind of profound insight that gets the Michigan Legislature to say "How high?" when DeVos says "Jump!"

Pair it with humdingers like this, and it explains an awful lot about why we're not doing so hot:

STAHL: No, but your argument that if you take funds away that the schools will get better is not working in Michigan, where you had a huge impact and influence over the direction of the school system here.
DeVOS: I hesitate to talk about all schools in general because schools are made up of individual students attending them.
STAHL: The public schools here are doing worse than they did.
DeVOS: Michigan schools need to do better. There is no doubt about it............


Betsy DeVos flubs question on Michigan schools on '60 Minutes'

Leaky Palmer Park Prep in Detroit is closed as teachers worry about mold

Quote:
Palmer Park Preparatory Academy — a Detroit school the Free Press featured recently because of its crowded classes and poor building conditions — was closed Monday and will remain closed Tuesday as the Detroit Public Schools Community District addresses ongoing facility concerns.

Superintendent Nikolai Vitti told Detroit Board of Education members in an e-mail that classes were canceled Monday "due to the vast majority of teachers calling off work linked to the condition of the buildings."

A leaking roof has left a large portion of the school building unusable. Meanwhile, some classes that are being used have had buckets to capture leaking water.

In a statement released Monday afternoon, district officials said Vitti would be meeting with staff Tuesday.

"The discussion will be about how we can and should collectively — district and school staff — move forward with facility concerns at Palmer Park, while keeping our children’s education at the center of that discussion, and the heath/safety of the students and faculty," the statement read. "After the meeting, decisions made by the district and staff will be discussed with students’ parents."............


but there is plenty of tax dollars to give away to billionare dan gilbert

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:16 am 
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Republican voters want the country they had prior to the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights
movement. Those times before white population made up 85% of the country in 1960 have
dropped to 63% in 2011 and 47% by 2050.

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2 ... -and-2050/

Interesting to read in 2011, white voters made up 66% of the voters but only 56% of 18 year olds. I
would be very afraid of alienating those HS kids demanding gun control for those HS kids are close
to voting age


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:19 am 
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National School Walkout: More than 85 Michigan schools to participate

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At 10 a.m. Wednesday, Laine Lord will get up from her fourth-hour French class, walk out the classroom door and head to the courtyard at Bloomfield Hills High School, where she and other students will spend the next 17 minutes honoring those killed in last month's school shooting in Florida and demanding action from lawmakers.

She'll be among hundreds of students at more than 85 schools across Michigan participating in the National School Walkout in response to the Feb. 14 shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., that left 17 students and adults dead. It's one of three events planned over the next month and a half — including a March 24 march in Washington and another walkout April 20 to mark the 19th anniversary of the Columbine school shooting that left 15 dead...........


and still the bulk of the policy response is to proliferate guns in school and a frightening militarized compound area for kids to be ordered around, arbitrarily forced into darkness and herded in desperate fear. if they cared about safety of students situation in like in Detroit with building issues wouldn't linger, even more odd when you consider a board of religious and business executives oversee the school finances.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:39 am 
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Republican voters want the country they had prior to the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights
movement. Those times before white population made up 85% of the country in 1960 have
dropped to 63% in 2011 and 47% by 2050.

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2 ... -and-2050/

Interesting to read in 2011, white voters made up 66% of the voters but only 56% of 18 year olds. I
would be very afraid of alienating those HS kids demanding gun control for those HS kids are close
to voting age


Ah, I love The Society Pages/Sociolgical Images. The whole TSP site is great and so is Lisa Wade.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:07 pm 
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For a lot of Republican voters (particularly older), there is a feeling of nostalgia, a longing
for the days in the fifties and early sixties for they are feeling they want back their
country they knew. Instead they are seeing bi-lingual signs and increasing numbers of
today's minorities along the election of a Black President and nomination of a woman
to be President. Society is changing and they are feeling left behind.

For these people, the election of a strong, outgoing white male President who talked of
making America great again was soothing to their ears and they turned out in droves
in November, 2016. Fast forward to 2018, some of these people are disillusioned but
make no mistake, they will again turn out in droves if the alternative inflames their
sense of security. The future does not bode well for these people for they are dying
off while those angry teenagers enraged by inaction over gun control will soon turn
voting age for those kids grew up without the sense of nostalgia for white privilege.
Got to keep those kids focused for their parents will want them to go back to
thinking of spring break and summer vacations while the adults make the tough
decisions.


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