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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:25 pm 
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Trump is calling for the death penalty for drug dealers. Just another normal right-wing bullshit.

What do you think?

I wonder how they feel about the big pharma companies that are making millions to push this stuff?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:31 pm 
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Does this mean Phrama Bro can ride the lightening?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:33 pm 
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Trump is calling for the death penalty for drug dealers. Just another normal right-wing bullshit.

What do you think?

I wonder how they feel about the big pharma companies that are making millions to push this stuff?

He got it from his Filipino buddy. Trump loves strongman rulers and I think he believes he should be one.

The problem is I would wager many of his supporters like the idea of a strongman.

And, no, because the death penalty is state-sanctioned murder.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:01 pm 
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OK. So here's one HUGE problem with this idea. Well, it's horrible in itself, but here's something else to it.

If you're caught with X amount of a certain substance, you are automatically considered to be a "dealer" under the law. Essentially, they say if you have X amount, you couldn't possibly simply have it for your own possession or use. You MUST be a "dealer". And then, I guess, we execute you! That's already one possible ridiculous outcome. Buy too much, get caught, you die.

And, as has been noted, what about the pushers at RJR and Philip Morris who admitted they made their own product (nicotine - cigarettes) more addictive ... and targeted advertisements at youth to guarantee new addicts. What about those pushers? Heck, thanks to the money they give Congress, they get parties in their honor!

Now, of course, as always, there's a long road between Trump's bad ideas becoming bad laws and policy. Hopefully these won't go any further.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:08 pm 
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I'm talking Big Pharma, who is ultimately at fault for the entire opioid crisis. They are the ones who caused the whole epidemic by pushing these painkillers as non-addictive, when they knew the dangers, because they just wanted to sell as much as possible.

Do we arrest and give the death penalty to the CEOs of the companies? They are the ultimate pushers.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:54 pm 
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That's a lot of Walgreen's pharmacists getting the electric chair.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:23 pm 
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I'm talking Big Pharma, who is ultimately at fault for the entire opioid crisis. They are the ones who caused the whole epidemic by pushing these painkillers as non-addictive, when they knew the dangers, because they just wanted to sell as much as possible.

Do we arrest and give the death penalty to the CEOs of the companies? They are the ultimate pushers.


It's of course the weird dichotomy in this whole discussion. Trump said he wanted people who sell fentanyl executed. Uh ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fentanyl

As of 2017, fentanyl was the most widely used synthetic opioid in medicine.

[snip][end]

It's Schedule II, so we still continue to recognize its medical usage. Sure, people are now selling it as a street drug, but it's still also used pharmaceutically ...

You'll dig this:
Following the patch, a flavoured lollipop of fentanyl citrate mixed with inert fillers was introduced in 1998 under the brand name of Actiq, becoming the first quick-acting formation of fentanyl for use with chronic breakthrough pain.

Sell a lollipop, you die.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:44 pm 
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So, we have been asked what we think about this. OK...here's what I think about this:

Trump likes to fuck with people. Its what malignant narcissists do. When he had an actual real estate development business and wasn't just selling his name, he would fuck with caterers and architects and piano dealers, vendors and subcontractors at every opportunity. It wasn't really all about the money either. He's just a malicious motherfucker who enjoys fucking with people.

And now, thanks to 62 million asshole fellow citizens, he gets to fuck with everybody on earth. So that's what he does. That's all this has ever been about for Donald...all it will ever be about with Donald Trump. Giving whomever he can the shaft whenever he can.

And so here's a big "fuck you so very much" going out to my northern asshole redneck and southern asshole redneck fellow Americans for handing this rousing good time to a vicious shitsack like Donald Trump on a silver platter.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Again, completely against the death penalty. But when someone illegally sells a drug they know can easily kill, life in prison would be ok with me.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Again, completely against the death penalty. But when someone illegally sells a drug they know can easily kill, life in prison would be ok with me.


I'm thinking some like a Devil's Island.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:16 pm 
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Again, completely against the death penalty. But when someone illegally sells a drug they know can easily kill, life in prison would be ok with me.


So besides being an asshole and pandering to his base, which doesn't make any sense since because of the base are methheads...I was thinking you would have create some supportive sludge by now, regarding this latest fetid chunk spewed from your president's festering piehole?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:18 pm 
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I'm thinking some like a Devil's Island.


It all depends on the drug...no?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:09 pm 
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In theory, any drug is deadly if you take too high a dose.

That includes aspirin, and water. (You can drink too much, your kidneys go into hyponatremia, and you die.)

I think some of the prescription opioids were sold by Pharma companies that knew they could kill, if the patient took too high a dose. (see: Fentanyl, Oxycontin.)

BTW ... that's been happening, hence, this "crisis"/"epidemic" stuff.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:31 pm 
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Again, completely against the death penalty. But when someone illegally sells a drug they know can easily kill, life in prison would be ok with me.


Let's test the bounds of that statement.



Ways in which guns and drugs are alike:

Guns and drugs can easily kill.

Guns and drugs can enhance and protect life as well as kill.

Guns and drugs can used as a means of committing suicide.

Guns and drugs can used as a means of executing prisoners.

Guns and drugs can be fun.

Guns and drugs can be thrilling.

Guns and drugs can be scary.

Guns and drugs can be quite expensive.

Guns and drugs can be very cheap.

(add to the list)




Ways in which guns and drugs are not alike:

Guns are made from metal.

(add to the list)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:45 pm 
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In theory, any drug is deadly if you take too high a dose.

That includes aspirin, and water. (You can drink too much, your kidneys go into hyponatremia, and you die.)

I think some of the prescription opioids were sold by Pharma companies that knew they could kill, if the patient took too high a dose. (see: Fentanyl, Oxycontin.)

BTW ... that's been happening, hence, this "crisis"/"epidemic" stuff.

I would say any opium derivative or morphine derivative can kill.

After my first bowel obstruction surgery the painkillers weren’t working very well so they switched me to nubain. Holy crap! After a dose via the iv a wave of warmth would go from my head to my feet and I would go to sleep. I don’t think it is used much anymore. I know Demerol is not used at least when I have been in the hospital. It requires increasing the dose to maintain its effect.

As for the “crisis” that is something else. While illegal drugs will be used by some no matter the situation when you have socio-economic inputs driving people the rate jumps. I suggest Brian Alexander’s “Glass House: The 1% Economy and the Shattering of an All-American Town” for some insight into the destruction levied by corporatism and unrestrained capitalism. One of the major results is drug addiction.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:06 am 
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Trump Opioid Plan Includes Death Penalty For Traffickers
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trum ... raffickers

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump’s plan to combat opioid drug addiction nationwide calls for stiffer penalties for drug traffickers, including the death penalty where appropriate under current law, a top administration official said. It’s a fate for drug dealers that Trump, who aims to be seen as tough on crime, has been highlighting publicly in recent weeks.

Trump also wants Congress to pass legislation reducing the amount of drugs needed to trigger mandatory minimum sentences for traffickers who knowingly distribute certain illicit opioids, said Andrew Bremberg, Trump’s domestic policy director, who briefed reporters Sunday on the plan Trump is scheduled to unveil Monday in New Hampshire, a state hard-hit by the crisis.

[snip]

Trump has mused openly in recent weeks about subjecting drug dealers to the “ultimate penalty.”

The president told the audience at a Pennsylvania campaign rally this month that countries like Singapore have fewer issues with drug addiction because they harshly punish their dealers. He argued that a person in the U.S. can get the death penalty or life in prison for shooting one person, but that a drug dealer who potentially kills thousands can spend little or no time in jail.

“The only way to solve the drug problem is through toughness,” Trump said in Moon Township.


He made similar comments at a recent White House summit on opioids. “Some countries have a very, very tough penalty — the ultimate penalty. And, by the way, they have much less of a drug problem than we do,” Trump said. “So we’re going to have to be very strong on penalties.”

The Justice Department said the federal death penalty is available for several limited drug-related offenses, including violations of the “drug kingpin” provisions of federal law.

Doug Berman, a law professor at Ohio State University, said it was not clear that death sentences for drug dealers, even for those whose product causes multiple deaths, would be constitutional. Berman said the issue would be litigated extensively and would have to be definitively decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.

[snip][end]

Mandatory minimums = hmm, you can read what the ACLU has said about those laws. Basically, get caught with X amount of a substance, you are automatically considered a "dealer," and you get a mandatory minimum felony prison sentence, with no judicial discretion. In many states, you then lose your right to vote. IOW, removes justice from the justice system.

It's weird how much Trump loves Singapore. It's true Singapore has some of the cleanest streets in the world, because spitting on the sidewalk or spraying graffiti can get you caned with a bamboo cane until you bleed. Yes, they are a law and order society - that maintains public order through harsh authoritarian measures and corporal punishment.

Finally, here's the weird problem. If we are going to give the death penalty for people who sell an addictive product that kills people, why aren't we even saying "boo" to the tobacco companies in this country, who sell an addictive product that kills people who use it?

Our answer to the opioid epidemic should be to rethink the War on Drugs and why it's not working ... not double down on what isn't.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:53 am 
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I'm talking Big Pharma, who is ultimately at fault for the entire opioid crisis. They are the ones who caused the whole epidemic by pushing these painkillers as non-addictive, when they knew the dangers, because they just wanted to sell as much as possible.

Do we arrest and give the death penalty to the CEOs of the companies? They are the ultimate pushers.


If you or a loved one ever catches cancer you are going to be very happy for so called "big pharma" and those addictive pain killers they make and sell. Your belief is tantamount to blaming distilleries for alcoholism.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:59 am 
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If you or a loved one ever catches cancer you are going to be very happy for so called "big pharma" and those addictive pain killers they make and sell. Your belief is tantamount to blaming distilleries for alcoholism.


And when they get hooked, another venal, holier-than-thou white Evangelical will beat them over the head with a Bible, screaming at them for being immoral addicts and telling them to pray about it.

What, you haven't received your healing yet? Pfft, you obviously don't have as much faith as I do.

Pretentious a-holes.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:29 pm 
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So basicly war on drugs, home invasion and police violence against people with legal prescriptions, and death penality for innocent minorities who are unfortunate enough to have drugs planted on them.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:43 pm 
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If you or a loved one ever catches cancer you are going to be very happy for so called "big pharma" and those addictive pain killers they make and sell.


Two questions:

1. Did they misrepresent how addictive those legal pharmaceuticals were? How likely it was for people to get hooked on them? And having developed tolerance, to keep upping their dose to where they might hit a deadly overdose threshold?
and
2. Did they engage in an aggressive campaign to get doctors to prescribe said drugs, even knowing all this was true?

Then comes the third:

3. What really makes them all that different from the street pusher pushing heroin on the corner?
(3a. Heroin actually started out, itself, as a legal pharmaceutical, for treating opium addiction. Cocaine used to be prescribed for medical conditions, and is STILL in Schedule II.)

Those are not idle questions I made up off the top of my head; those are the basis for some current lawsuits against Big Pharma.

Are Pharmaceutical Companies to Blame for the Opioid Epidemic?
Recent lawsuits are asking courts whether the current crisis is comparable to the one over tobacco in the ’90s.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... ds/529020/

[snip]

Who is responsible for this? Some attorneys general and advocates are now asking in court whether the pharmaceutical companies who marketed the drugs and downplayed their addictive nature can be held legally responsible for—and made to pay for the consequences of—the crisis. This may not be such an outlandish idea; in fact, there’s a good precedent. In 1998, the tobacco industry, 46 states, and six other jurisdictions entered into the largest civil-litigation settlement agreement in U.S. history. State attorneys general had sued tobacco companies, arguing that the companies should take up the burden of paying for the costs of treating smoking-related diseases. In the settlement, which left the tobacco industry immune from future state and federal suits, the companies agreed to make annual payments to the states, in perpetuity, to fund public-health programs and anti-smoking campaigns.

Now, as a new public-health crisis ravages states, Ohio’s Attorney General Mike DeWine filed a lawsuit Wednesday against a handful of pharmaceutical companies, including Purdue Pharma, Teva Pharmaceuticals, and Johnson & Johnson. The lawsuit accuses the companies of spending millions on marketing campaigns that “trivialize the risks of opioids while overstating the benefits of using them for chronic pain.” The companies, the lawsuit alleges, lobbied doctors to influence their opinions about the safety of opioids, “borrowing a page from Big Tobacco.”

The lawsuit follows similar recent lawsuits in Illinois, Mississippi, four counties in New York, and Santa Clara and Orange Counties in California. Last month, the Cherokee Nation filed a lawsuit against distributors and pharmacies in tribal court over the opioid epidemic. In January, the city of Everett, Washington, filed a lawsuit against Purdue Pharma, the makers of OxyContin, alleging that the company knew the drug was being funneled into the black market but did nothing to stop it.

“What you’re getting now is a lot more legal minds across the country focusing on this, and figuring out how to pay these huge bills,” Sam Quinones, the author of Dreamland: The True Tale of America’s Opiate Epidemic, told me. “Everyone is groping for a legal theory that will work in court.”

There is some significant evidence that pharmaceutical companies may have engaged in some activities that led to the opioid crisis. A Los Angeles Times investigation into Purdue Pharma, for instance, found that the drug maker, which marketed OxyContin as relieving pain for 12 hours, knew that the drug wore off before that time period. Since the drug didn’t last as long as promised, some patients suffered withdrawal, which led them to become addicted. (Purdue responded that OxyContin had been approved by the FDA as a 12-hour drug, and said it was working to “address our nation’s opioid epidemic.”)

[snip][end]

So, here's the deal. I personally don't want the CEO of Purdue executed ... or the street pusher on the corner selling heroin. Neither should die for their behavior.

What just boggles my mind, though, is this idea up until recently that one should be held responsible for their actions, and the other bears no responsibility. You sell an addictive product, where addicts can die from an overdose. Is it that much different when you sit behind a desk, versus dealing on a street corner?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:00 pm 
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In theory, any drug is deadly if you take too high a dose.


Marijuana challenges this theory. Thousands of years of use and no one has ever died from too much THC.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:03 pm 
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Your point is taken.

It is exactly why it's ridiculous THC is in Schedule I. It doesn't meet the criteria.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:11 pm 
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Your point is taken.

It is exactly why it's ridiculous THC is in Schedule I. It doesn't meet the criteria.


My favorite is the "it's a gateway to 'harder' drugs" argument.

BUT, according to the government, THERE ARE NO HARDER DRUGS than marijuana, only equally hard drugs.

By this logic, wouldn't that mean that pot leads to equally or LESS dangerous (Scedule II, III etc) drugs?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:30 pm 
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If you or a loved one ever catches cancer you are going to be very happy for so called "big pharma" and those addictive pain killers they make and sell. Your belief is tantamount to blaming distilleries for alcoholism.

The drug companies hid the addictive issues with these drugs, and pushed them for almost everything, to sell as much as possible. They put profits before public health.

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