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 Post subject: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:16 pm 
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I figure this will be a (mostly) non-political topic that will generate lots of discussion. Saw this travel column in the NYTimes: On a Disney Cruise, It’s a Stressful World (After All) - Can a cruise skeptic enjoy four days on the high seas with his family, Mickey and a bunch of princesses?

I've been a Disney fan for my whole life. I admit it. I'm soft as a marshmellow inside. Dreamed of going to Disney as a kid, never got to. My parents weren't "vacation" sorts. I was probably thirty before I got to go, and had the time of my life. I still love Disney movies. I love the immersive world of Disney. Yeah, I know that Disney can be pretty bad, too, and it's all about taking money from you - but they do give so much entertainment for that money.

So, while they are an evil multinational money-grubbing corporation, at least what they sell is worth buying.

How do you feel?


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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:50 pm 
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Interesting... Disneyland (now Disney Resort) always had a reputation as a good place to work. Back in the Paleolithic when I was actually a kid, it was considered a primo summer job.

But a couple of days ago I was reading that now it pays very low wages. Being run by a studio, it's still union, but now the unions are saying the average wage is something like $13/hr. They say 11% have been homeless at one time or another. Etc.

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/02/27/d ... vey-finds/

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-d ... story.html

https://economicrt.org/publication/disneyland/

Etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:16 pm 
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Disney movies have never gotten much respect, despite making some of the most popular movies. They are unabashed family entertainment. But their quality was always top-notch. Their animation revolutionized the industry.

It's strange if you look at it right.

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Last edited by TheFox on Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:24 pm 
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my wife's cousin lives near cape canaveral, and gets a cheap last minute cruise ticket about 2 or 3 times a year, has always said that disney is her and her husbands favorite cruise compared to the other ones around there.

other then that i don't know, i love alot of my childhood disney movies, but i don't have kids, no disney world for me yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:30 pm 
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The Disney cruises are supposed to be top notch for kids. Unlike many other cruise ships, they are very kid-friendly, with a lot of kid-themed activities. Plus interaction with the characters. A friend of mine went with his wife and daughter a few years ago. She loved it. Tons of activities plus Minnie Mouse is constantly walking around.

BTW, they are not slouches for adults, either, and I understand they have all the usual stuff for adults that most cruise lines have too (night clubs, excursions, etc.)

Basically, makes it a win-win for families who want a nice cruise. (BTW, GoU, IIRC, you don't have any kids, hence my point above.)

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:34 pm 
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The Disney cruises are supposed to be top notch for kids. Unlike many other cruise ships, they are very kid-friendly, with a lot of kid-themed activities. Plus interaction with the characters. A friend of mine went with his wife and daughter a few years ago. She loved it. Tons of activities plus Minnie Mouse is constantly walking around.

BTW, they are not slouches for adults, either, and I understand they have all the usual stuff for adults that most cruise lines have too (night clubs, excursions, etc.)

Basically, makes it a win-win for families who want a nice cruise. (BTW, GoU, IIRC, you don't have any kids, hence my point above.)

Yeah, I'd not do a Disney Cruise, as I'm not enamored of children.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:50 pm 
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I took the kids when they were little and it was fun. As for a cruise no way that would be hell. As for amusement parks the best park in the USA and maybe the world is Cedar Point is Sandusky Ohio. The last time I was there they had something like 7 of the worlds top 10 roller coasters including the top 3.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:27 pm 
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Disney movies have never gotten much respect, despite making some of the most popular movies. They are unabashed family entertainment. But their quality was always top-notch. Their animation revolutionized the industry.

It's strange if you look at it right.


Disney animation is still considered the state of the art. They always shot all 24 film frames, when it was on film. Most of what you were seeing on TV only changed after 3 frames, and also rarely animated the whole frame. They also pioneered the multiplane camera. Now they own Pixar, and what they're doing to animate turbulent process like water splashing is remarkable.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:42 pm 
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Disney parks were never about the thrill rides. Other parks always had the bigger coasters and thrill rides. Disney rides are an immersive experience, and quite different. If all you want is coasters and crazy thrill rides, stay away from Disney. You'll be disappointed.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:14 pm 
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Disney parks were never about the thrill rides. Other parks always had the bigger coasters and thrill rides. Disney rides are an immersive experience, and quite different. If all you want is coasters and crazy thrill rides, stay away from Disney. You'll be disappointed.



I had a brother in law who suffered from severe mental illness. When ever he had an attack he would go to Disney.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:55 pm 
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Disneyland is about the only park we go to with any frequency. It's fun. That's it. It's just fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Last time I went to Disney Land was with my wife in 2005 just after an E3 event in LA. I don't think it was peak season, it was in May. Maybe it was getting there.

But we arrived pretty early, and it was a lot different from when I was there as a 14 year old. We had to get pre passes from machines that told us to come back at certain times for the popular rides, so we didn't get to enjoy many of the attractions. The place was pretty packed and hard to get around. I think I had more enjoyment going to the latest Star Wars movie in the Disney Theater over the rest of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:44 pm 
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I've never gone there, and never will.

Walt Disney was an an anti-Semite, racist, anti-labor union, Nazi sympathizer. He helped the McCarthy and Nixon with those un-american hearings.


I don't buy Ford automobiles or Firestone tires either.


If those companies want my business they can change their names. Remove their icons.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:51 pm 
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Last time I went to Disney Land was with my wife in 2005 just after an E3 event in LA. I don't think it was peak season, it was in May. Maybe it was getting there.

But we arrived pretty early, and it was a lot different from when I was there as a 14 year old. We had to get pre passes from machines that told us to come back at certain times for the popular rides, so we didn't get to enjoy many of the attractions. The place was pretty packed and hard to get around. I think I had more enjoyment going to the latest Star Wars movie in the Disney Theater over the rest of it.


It's always crowded now. Used to be if you went after the New Year's snowbirds all left and the spring break wasn't there yet, there was a good lull and you got on all the rides. Not any more. Now they let Disney employees come at a big discount around then, and they'll fill it up right there.

It's more compact than the other Disney parks. This makes it feel more crowded, but also you don't walk as far.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:55 pm 
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I've never gone there, and never will.

Walt Disney was an an anti-Semite, racist, anti-labor union, Nazi sympathizer. He helped the McCarthy and Nixon with those un-american hearings.


I don't buy Ford automobiles or Firestone tires either.


If those companies want my business they can change their names. Remove their icons.


Disney was indeed all those things. One more reason Liberal Hollywood is a right wing propaganda myth.

He was also virulently anti-union. He insisted that his Abraham Lincoln exhibit contain language about the fifth freedom being right to work, or something similar.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:57 pm 
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Last time I went to Disney Land was with my wife in 2005 just after an E3 event in LA. I don't think it was peak season, it was in May. Maybe it was getting there.

But we arrived pretty early, and it was a lot different from when I was there as a 14 year old. We had to get pre passes from machines that told us to come back at certain times for the popular rides, so we didn't get to enjoy many of the attractions. The place was pretty packed and hard to get around. I think I had more enjoyment going to the latest Star Wars movie in the Disney Theater over the rest of it.

Last time I went to Disneyland was back in the early 80s with my brother, sister, and their kids. Crowded as hell with long wait time for rides and attractions.

There was a recent on-line article about e reality of visiting Disney theme parks. Basically, you see uncrowded streets on the commercials but when you get there it's wall-to-wall people. Disneyland is running a commercial offering 25% off for local (Southern California) residents and one of the scenes shows three children play fighting with plastic light sabers. That's just what people need in a crowded Disneyland, kids swinging plastic light sabers.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:15 pm 
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Disney World 14 times. I know every nook and cranny of the Wide World of Sports Complex - Soccer, Baseball, Basketball. And after the game off to the Parks. Something for everybody. We loved it.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:54 pm 
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I have been many times to Disney World. Not 14, though. Probably my favorite part of the complex was EPCOT ... between the part that lets you partake of cultures around the world, and the rest that mostly seems to celebrate tech and futurism, as a youngun it was candy for me. But, like I said, as I got older, I wondered about why every pavilion seemed to be owned by a corporation. Then I read Vinyl Leaves, and met the author. :D

https://www.amazon.com/Vinyl-Leaves-Ame ... 0813314720

Disney definitely isn't known for thrill rides. If you like heart-pounding rollercoasters, they don't have them. Space Mountain was scary for me at age 6 because you can't see the tracks. But it's not really that great a coaster.

Anyway, when I used to go through Orlando - which when I lived closer nearby, was a lot - I think I preferred some of the other theme parks. Particularly because I like water parks, ... Disney's weren't bad (Blizzard Beach/Typhoon Lagoon), but I tended to prefer Universal's Volcano Bay and some of the others.

Orlando has everything. There's a park owned by the Chinese government to promote tourism (Splendid China). There's one that promotes religion called the Holy Land Experience - Bill Maher visited that in Religulous. And, there's the old time tourist stuff that preceded all these (which mostly post-date Disney arriving in the 70s), like GatorLand. Yeah, why ride rides when you can look at gators. (Those places are cheaper, of course.)

Incidentally, as I've known people who worked at the Disney parks, those stories you've heard of a massive underground complex of tunnels is true. You don't think that dude in a Mickey Mouse costume in 98 degree heat walks from one side of the park to the other? He uses an elevator, that's why they seem to pop up out of nowhere.

I have never been to the original Disneyland.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Far as underground goes, Disneyland is like Times Square. There's another city down there.

There's one stage in Tomorrowland where the bands come up out of the ground, already playing. Used to be the dream gig for every semi-pro band in SoCal. Now like everything else it's all Disney all the time. I think it's currently a lightsaber demonstration or something.

Practically every urban legend you've heard about Disneyland is true.

* There is a club with a practically hidden speak-easy type door that will let members in to drink alcohol. The rest of the park is dry, except for private parties.

* Indeed this club is called Club 33, from its address, but as a cute Disney touch it used to be $33k a year to get in. Now... don't ask.

* Walt Disney did order an apartment above Pirates of the Caribbean where he could stay. It's a nice suite kind of arrangement. He never stayed there. It's for Disney VIPs now.

* There really is a basketball court inside the Matterhorn. Actually it's just a hoop stuck on a wall with some room to take shots.

* The river boat does run on tracks. (So does the fake sailing ship.)

* The castle drawbridge does work. (I've seen it up, and there are videos of people turning the wheels by hand to move it, just like in the 12th century.)

Also, people have written Ph.D.s about Main Street. Unlike its successors, it is forced perspective. It was storyboarded. The upper floors are barely high enough to stand up in, but the street floors are full sized.

This for some reason seems very significant to semioticians and post-modernists. Of course they really are right that the appeal of the place is that it's a simulation of a simulation. Yup.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:27 pm 
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I used to go to their theme parks in the 80's they were cool i don't like what they represent now from a business standpoint cause their conservative.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:28 pm 
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Never been. Probably never will.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Conservative and expensive. Disneyland will set you back $125 on a busy day. (Congestion pricing.)

I must agree that the original Disney parks were a conservative vision of America. Very 1950s post-WWII self-conscious folksy white Protestant ain't we great. Like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir doing Home on the Range. That sort of thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:25 pm 
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Disneyland.... once as a kid while visiting relatives in Buena Park. Don't really remember it but do remember Knott's Berry Farm.

Disney World once. Dad sprung for each of his grand children once. One of my fondest memories was watching the youngest(commie girl) sitting in grandpa's lap on It's a Small World boat ride. In the pictures we have, there's Dad with with the most content smile i had ever seen on his face, and her with wide eyed wonder. Us parents went with the older kids to more exciting rides while he spent most of the day waiting in line with her so she could ride it over and over again.
It was about the third grade that she got into art and always said she wanted to work for Disney as a cartoon animator. She (Well, he. She's in transition. Or would that be, he's in transition? no, she's in transition.....fuck, i dunno for sure. She's going to be a he. i gotta get used to that.) now has a four year degree in art and computer animation and can't stand corporate Disney because of their assault on copy rights. He thinks it kills creativity when it's withheld from the public for that long, or something like that. To him, Disney is the enemy. Overall, i tend to agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney, anyone?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Disney is definitely a corporate predator. The standard career path in creative fields now is:

Get good at something.
Start a company .
Get bought by Disney.

Everyone in L.A. will eventually work for them or Amazon.

And everyone in L.A. who would have been a painter or sculptor in the 1960s is now studying animation and/or CGI.

This is one reason why my very expensive liquid-cooled 6-core 12-thread graphic arts computer only makes still images. The alternative is a path to corporate monotony. Instead, I raise my barbaric yawp at the very fabric of American creative work.

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