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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:30 pm 
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The only reason you're going to these legnths to conflate politicians being made to leave office and termination of employment is because GoU is in the thread. It's a form of pandering.

Sure. He's trying to use my principles against me, and throws his own out in the process.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:31 pm 
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I thought with your college education, you'd understand English.

I think we need a legal, not a political process to remove a corrupt President. But since we don't have that, Trump needs to be impeached NOW. He's done too much damage to this nation already.

Can you fucking understand THAT???



Well, impeached and convicted.

And whatever goods Mueller got from that grifter Michael Cohen is gonna be gooooood.....

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:36 pm 
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We already have proof of what the man's being doing. Of course, you wouldn't know any of that, because I guess you refuse to read articles concerning wrongdoing of Republicans.


So you consider articles "proof" or "evidence". You believe everything you read in the papers? Hear on TV? Read on the internet?

I'm assuming there is an inspector general who has jurisdiction for the EPA. He should be looking into Secretary Pruitt's conduct and issuing his findings and recommendations based upon the facts. Of course Trump can fire him anytime he wants and for whatever reason he wants or for no reason at all. Maybe he just isn't a good fit. But if he is to be terminated for cause, I think he has a right to see the evidence and to defend himself against charges and have this decided in an objective manner based on the facts.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:37 pm 
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I thought with your college education, you'd understand English.

I think we need a legal, not a political process to remove a corrupt President. But since we don't have that, Trump needs to be impeached NOW. He's done too much damage to this nation already.

Can you fucking understand THAT???


I think impeachment is a "legal" process. It's in the CONSTITUTION. It is not a criminal process but a political one and has different standards to be sure, but it is legal. It's all laid out the constitution. Articles of impeachment passed in the House, trial in the Senate, Chief Justice presides. All constitutional, all legal. We've done it before. So I am not sure which impeachment process you were referencing when you stated "No, I do not believe the impeachment process is good for America.". Is there more than one impeachment process? When I went to college there was only one. Did that change?


Last edited by JoeMemphis on Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:40 pm 
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Some history, and a little reality check for Joe:

As White House Chief of Staff, Sununu reportedly took personal trips, for skiing and other purposes, and classified them as official, for purposes such as conservation or promoting the Thousand Points of Light.[19] The Washington Post wrote that Sununu's jets "took him to fat-cat Republican fund-raisers, ski lodges, golf resorts and even his dentist in Boston."[19] Sununu had paid the government only $892 for his more than $615,000 worth of military jet travel.[20] Sununu said that his use of the jets was necessary because he had to be near a telephone at all times for reasons of national security.[21] Sununu became the subject of much late-night television humor over the incident.[19] Sununu worsened the situation shortly afterwards when, after leaking rumors of financial difficulties in his family, he traveled to a rare stamp auction at Christie's auction house in New York City from Washington in a government limousine, spending $5,000 on rare stamps.[22] Sununu then sent the car and driver back to Washington unoccupied while he returned on a corporate jet.[22] In the course of one week, 45 newspapers ran editorials on Sununu, nearly all of them critical of his actions.[23] Sununu resigned his White House post on December 4, 1991.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:40 pm 
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Of course Trump can fire him anytime he wants and for whatever reason he wants or for no reason at all. Maybe he just isn't a good fit. But if he is to be terminated for cause, I think he has a right to see the evidence and to defend himself against charges and have this decided in an objective manner based on the facts.


All this to avoid the topic: forty percent of white millennials voted for Trump.

Your party is packed like sardines with racists, WNs, neo-Nazis, actual Nazis, Klan, and Confederates, all the way up to the highest office in the country.

You would not be talking this way if The First Black President pulled even one of scam-artist things the Great White Hope President has.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:47 pm 
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So you consider articles "proof" or "evidence". You believe everything you read in the papers? Hear on TV? Read on the internet?

I'm assuming there is an inspector general who has jurisdiction for the EPA. He should be looking into Secretary Pruitt's conduct and issuing his findings and recommendations based upon the facts. Of course Trump can fire him anytime he wants and for whatever reason he wants or for no reason at all. Maybe he just isn't a good fit. But if he is to be terminated for cause, I think he has a right to see the evidence and to defend himself against charges and have this decided in an objective manner based on the facts.

Joe what is YOUR proof of evidence against the Clintons and Obamas?

We do know facts about what Pruitt has done. We know the FACTS about his travel. About his extravagant spending. About his circumventing the white house to give huge raises to his buddies.

But you don't know any of that, because you don't read anything bad about Republicans. You can bet you'd be pissed if it were a Dem. Of course, if it were a Dem, they'd already be gone.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:48 pm 
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All this to avoid the topic: forty percent of white millennials voted for Trump.

Your party is packed like sardines with racists, WNs, neo-Nazis, actual Nazis, Klan, and Confederates, all the way up to the highest office in the country.

You would not be talking this way if The First Black President pulled even one of scam-artist things the Great White Hope President has.

Oh, make no mistake, he thinks Obama was corrupt, and the only reason he got away with it is Joe is sure both Attorney Generals were corrupt, too, and protected Obama.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:51 pm 
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Some history, and a little reality check for Joe:

As White House Chief of Staff, Sununu reportedly took personal trips, for skiing and other purposes, and classified them as official, for purposes such as conservation or promoting the Thousand Points of Light.[19] The Washington Post wrote that Sununu's jets "took him to fat-cat Republican fund-raisers, ski lodges, golf resorts and even his dentist in Boston."[19] Sununu had paid the government only $892 for his more than $615,000 worth of military jet travel.[20] Sununu said that his use of the jets was necessary because he had to be near a telephone at all times for reasons of national security.[21] Sununu became the subject of much late-night television humor over the incident.[19] Sununu worsened the situation shortly afterwards when, after leaking rumors of financial difficulties in his family, he traveled to a rare stamp auction at Christie's auction house in New York City from Washington in a government limousine, spending $5,000 on rare stamps.[22] Sununu then sent the car and driver back to Washington unoccupied while he returned on a corporate jet.[22] In the course of one week, 45 newspapers ran editorials on Sununu, nearly all of them critical of his actions.[23] Sununu resigned his White House post on December 4, 1991.


Here is the critical part of your post "Sununu resigned his White House post on December 4, 1991." I think the key word here is "resigned". That seems to indicate the employee in question made a decision. Maybe he acknowledged the charges were true and resigned. That indicates to me that he was confronted and that he was given an opportunity to make a case in his defense. Due Process.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:56 pm 
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Here is the critical part of your post "Sununu resigned his White House post on December 4, 1991." I think the key word here is "resigned". That seems to indicate the employee in question made a decision. Maybe he acknowledged the charges were true and resigned. That indicates to me that he was confronted and that he was given an opportunity to make a case in his defense. Due Process.

Nope. Check your history. His resignation wasn't voluntary. He was going, resignation was to allow him to save face. Strike two.

You obviously don't understand how these things work.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:03 pm 
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Joe what is YOUR proof of evidence against the Clintons and Obamas?

We do know facts about what Pruitt has done. We know the FACTS about his travel. About his extravagant spending. About his circumventing the white house to give huge raises to his buddies.

But you don't know any of that, because you don't read anything bad about Republicans. You can bet you'd be pissed if it were a Dem. Of course, if it were a Dem, they'd already be gone.


I'm assuming there is an inspector general who has jurisdiction for the EPA. He should be looking into Secretary Pruitt's conduct and issuing his findings and recommendations based upon the facts. Of course Trump can fire him anytime he wants and for whatever reason he wants or for no reason at all. Maybe he just isn't a good fit. But if he is to be terminated for cause, I think he has a right to see the evidence and to defend himself against charges and have this decided in an objective manner based on the facts.

You are correct that I know little about Pruitt. Haven't kept up with the case. I said that upfront when you asked me if he should be fired or removed from office. As I recall I said that if he was guilty of misappropriation of taxpayer funds, he should be terminated. I haven't deviated from this. I would think there should be a process in place to determine what the facts are in this case and Secretary Pruitt should be given an opportunity to speak to those charges. I personally have no authority to remove the EPA Secretary but if I were making that decision, I would want to see evidence. Not articles. Evidence. I would want to interview people such as Pruitt and others. You on the other hand think that you know enough to fire him based on what you read in the papers. That's all you need. I'm just pointing out that wouldn't fly with you if this were one of your union members. You would want more than what is reported in the press.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Nope. Check your history. His resignation wasn't voluntary. He was going, resignation was to allow him to save face. Strike two.

You obviously don't understand how these things work.


Wasn't voluntary? Was Lucca Brassi standing there with a gun to his head? He was confronted with evidence. He made a choice. Maybe it was a difficult choice but it was a choice.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:13 pm 
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I'm assuming there is an inspector general who has jurisdiction for the EPA. He should be looking into Secretary Pruitt's conduct and issuing his findings and recommendations based upon the facts. Of course Trump can fire him anytime he wants and for whatever reason he wants or for no reason at all. Maybe he just isn't a good fit. But if he is to be terminated for cause, I think he has a right to see the evidence and to defend himself against charges and have this decided in an objective manner based on the facts.

You are correct that I know little about Pruitt. Haven't kept up with the case. I said that upfront when you asked me if he should be fired or removed from office. As I recall I said that if he was guilty of misappropriation of taxpayer funds, he should be terminated. I haven't deviated from this. I would think there should be a process in place to determine what the facts are in this case and Secretary Pruitt should be given an opportunity to speak to those charges. I personally have no authority to remove the EPA Secretary but if I were making that decision, I would want to see evidence. Not articles. Evidence. I would want to interview people such as Pruitt and others. You on the other hand think that you know enough to fire him based on what you read in the papers. That's all you need. I'm just pointing out that wouldn't fly with you if this were one of your union members. You would want more than what is reported in the press.

This is what Republicans have done to our nation - Joe says that anything bad about Republicans that he reads in the press cannot be trusted.

Of course, he DID trust what he read and saw on the right-wing noise machine that was bad about Obama and the Clintons. THAT he believed! He's made this whole long conspiracy theory that the Obama AGs protected Obama. THAT he believes.

The facts that have came out in the press and in Congressional testimony about Pruitt shows he has misused taxpayer money, and then lied about it.

But hey, here's Joe when it comes to Republicans:

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:19 pm 
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This is what Republicans have done to our nation - Joe says that anything bad about Republicans that he reads in the press cannot be trusted.

Of course, he DID trust what he read and saw on the right-wing noise machine that was bad about Obama and the Clintons. THAT he believed! He's made this whole long conspiracy theory that the Obama AGs protected Obama. THAT he believes.

The facts that have came out in the press and in Congressional testimony about Pruitt shows he has misused taxpayer money, and then lied about it.

But hey, here's Joe when it comes to Republicans:

Image


Again, show a single post where I accused Obama of anything. You keep bringing this up and you NEVER prove it.

Also, you claimed "You can bet you'd be pissed if it were a Dem. Of course, if it were a Dem, they'd already be gone." Show me a single post where I ever said that about a single Democrat elected official or appointed official. I may have called for investigations but I never called for their removal without process. So show me a post.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Again, show a single post where I accused Obama of anything. You keep bringing this up and you NEVER prove it.

Also, you claimed "You can bet you'd be pissed if it were a Dem. Of course, if it were a Dem, they'd already be gone." Show me a single post where I ever said that about a single Democrat elected official or appointed official. I may have called for investigations but I never called for their removal without process. So show me a post.

You've accused Obama's AGs of covering up his corruption. You want to deny THAT???

Where did you get the idea that they did so? Care to let us know?

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:54 pm 
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You've accused Obama's AGs of covering up his corruption. You want to deny THAT???

Where did you get the idea that they did so? Care to let us know?


Show me the post where I accused Barack Obama of any crime or misdemeanor. If you are asking me if I thought Holder or Lynch properly investigated allegations into matters involving the Obama ADMINISTRATION, I would have to say no. But I have never said that President Obama was personally guilty of anything. You keep making the claim but you never produce anything to support it. But you keep repeating the lie nonetheless.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:29 pm 
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So you consider articles "proof" or "evidence". You believe everything you read in the papers? Hear on TV? Read on the internet?

.



Translation: FAKE NEWS!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:33 pm 
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Translation: FAKE NEWS!


I didn't say it was fake news. I said it wasn't proof or evidence. There's a difference.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:46 pm 
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I didn't say it was fake news. I said it wasn't proof or evidence. There's a difference.

That's the right-wing game. Again, where did you get the idea that Obama and the Clintons are corrupt? Fess up!

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:16 pm 
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That's the right-wing game. Again, where did you get the idea that Obama and the Clintons are corrupt? Fess up!


Once again, if you start your question repeating a lie then you need to provide a post. Please show where I ever accused Obama of anything.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:26 pm 
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Once again, if you start your question repeating a lie then you need to provide a post. Please show where I ever accused Obama of anything.

Already have. You just say that his corrupt Attorney Generals covered up for him.

Again, where did you get the information to make such an accusation? Where did you get the information that the Clintons are corrupt?

Questions you just won't answer.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:45 pm 
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Already have. You just say that his corrupt Attorney Generals covered up for him.

Again, where did you get the information to make such an accusation? Where did you get the information that the Clintons are corrupt?

Questions you just won't answer.


No you have not. I have not accused President Obama of anything. You have not provided a single post to show that I have.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:05 pm 
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No you have not. I have not accused President Obama of anything. You have not provided a single post to show that I have.


Joe, sometimes one departs and leaves the person pressing a fallacious strawman stewing and steaming all by themselves.

:|


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:19 am 
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No you have not. I have not accused President Obama of anything. You have not provided a single post to show that I have.

Here's your accusations against the Clintons:

I seem to recall six or seven civil servants who worked in the White House travel office. You remember the rhetoric. Putting people first. Going to work everyday, Playing by the rules. All that horse shit. Except when it came to covering their ass for a decision to fire these guys. Nothing illegal in the decision. But it didn't go down so well politically to fire these folks so you could give the contract to your cronies. I remember the story. So they sic'd the FBI, the DOJ on these guys who didn't do anything wrong other than get in their way. They were indicted. Some of them had parents and family members who passed away while they were under indictment. Know how many were convicted. Zero. The DOJ has a conviction rate in the 80 percent range or above and yet not one conviction on these guys. All charges later dismissed and the only guy who went to trial was acquitted.

Those guys I feel sorry for. Those people were truly innocent. They were just inconveniently in Bill and Hillary's way. So cry me a river Sam. She's a big girl who is running for President. She has certainly dished out without remorse worse than what she has been given and done so on people whose cause she now claims to champion. That's politics and that is the Clinton machine. Been that way since Bill was governor of Arkansas and she has been in the thick of it. She ain't no saintly grandma whose doing it all for the kiddies. So feel sorry for her if you like. She's counting on folks like you to buy that horse shit so she can carry the day.


So, Joe, where did you hear about these accusations? Why did you believe them?

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:33 am 
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Of course Trump can fire him anytime he wants and for whatever reason he wants or for no reason at all. Maybe he just isn't a good fit. But if he is to be terminated for cause, I think he has a right to see the evidence and to defend himself against charges and have this decided in an objective manner based on the facts.

All this to avoid the topic: forty percent of white millennials voted for Trump.

Your party is packed like sardines with racists, WNs, neo-Nazis, actual Nazis, Klan, and Confederates, all the way up to the highest office in the country.

You would not be talking this way if The First Black President pulled even one of scam-artist things the Great White Hope President has.


Thank you carmen...of course it's all to avoid the topic. When Joe is being handed his ass on a plate his first intervention is always to derail the topic by flushing out some distantly related issue. Our only mistake is letting ourselves get caught up in his hypocritical bullshit.

And correct, Joe's party is chock full of all the types you note. Also domestic violence perps, pedophiles, and philandering assholes paying off their pregnant girlfriends to get abortions. Are there similar people in the Democratic party? Certainly. The difference is...Democrats are not constantly lecturing others on morality and continually attempting to occupy the fucking ethical high ground. It's the party of hypocrisy, in spades.

And +++++++++++he would not be talking this way if Obama had pulled any of this shit. And we would not be having any of these discussions if white America had not put this sociopath in the White House as payback for 8 years of a black president.

But most of all for me...it's Joe continuously insisting that we measure Clinton and Obama with the same yardstick as Donald Trump. You can't measure any other politician, even any republican politician with the same yardstick as Donald Trump. All this bullshit about whether any of Obama's activity would warrant a special independent council is a horseshit tangential distraction of topic avoidance. Donald Trump is a psychopathically deranged malignant narcissist and deranged animal. There's no equivalency between him and anybody else who has ever held the office, and thus, no equivalency with whatever strategies are utilized to remove him from the office. Joe asks if there's anything good about "impeachment" and his self-absorbed answer is no. In this case there is everything good about impeachment...good for the country and the people therein.

Any interaction with Joe on this forum from this point forward will always end up being a giant false fucking equivalency exercise with a closeted Trump supporter, who doesn't have half the integrity of a Lynch or a Kernel when it comes to honestly stating his opinion. He's a bullshit waste of fucking time.

One last thing. The similarities between what is happening in this country and what was going on in Germany in the 1920's and early 1930's is terrifying. If Joe was a German in 1927 he would be saying everybody should wait and see about Adolf Hitler.

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