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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:57 am 
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That's a good point, Starbucks isn’t the problem, America is.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:55 am 
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Because the company only owns 8,000 of them.

So, they can't get the owners of the rest of the stores to go along with this? More proof that it's just a publicity stunt.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:56 am 
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That's a good point, Starbucks isn’t the problem, America is.

You sound like someone with a financial stake in Starbucks.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:07 am 
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You sound like someone with a financial stake in Starbucks.


No financial stake Smeary. I must have worked two or three thousand hours in their coffee shops. I've done jobs in at least 300 of them. Was always offered some of that coffee when I arrived, and more when I was about to depart. Their employees were as a group were upbeat and gay. Not all of them were Gay but if they weren't Gay at least they were gay, meaning they were upbeat and liked working where they worked. The company made a very favorable impression on me.

Starbucks and Trader Joe's were the two who made a favorable impression on me. Happy employees.


The major grocery story chain corporations sucked, some worse than others. They had very few happy employees.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:40 am 
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That's a good point, Starbucks isn’t the problem, America is.


I have been suggesting that in this thread this entire time.

Yes, Americans like you, eager to exonerate some individual company while at the same time tapping into the race-propaganda history of blacking up/blackface for yourself and yet still finding it hard to utter three little words, "black lives matter," you are indeed the problem.

You are the problem that allowed segregation, whites-first public policy, whites-rule policing, to persist for so long by deliberately misdiagnosing "the problem".

You create further, pointless problems by insisting on accomodationism and capitulation to forces intent on continued suppression of minorities.

You have been the problem for 400 years.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:10 am 
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I have been suggesting that in this thread this entire time.

Yes, Americans like you, eager to exonerate some individual company while at the same time tapping into the race-propaganda history of blacking up/blackface for yourself and yet still finding it hard to utter three little words, "black lives matter," you are indeed the problem.

You are the problem that allowed segregation, whites-first public policy, whites-rule policing, to persist for so long by deliberately misdiagnosing "the problem".

You create further, pointless problems by insisting on accomodationism and capitulation to forces intent on continued suppression of minorities.

You have been the problem for 400 years.


I've not been disagreeing with you regarding that point America is the problem.

That bit about the Black face was some leg pulling in response to your rhetorical put down comment/question which in my mind amounted to since I'm not black I don't know anything about it.

:) I'm glad it got your goat.

Your current put down about the three little words, about the "black lives matter" post are taking what I said completely out of context and is misrepresenting what I said that day. That post I made where I said that was largely in support about Black Lives Matter, and it was an honest explanation about how it initially struck me and how I sorted it out.

The way you're using it now as a put down and smear is shitty. :(

You are part of the problem Carmen.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:46 am 
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At this point sam you need a new shovel. You've dug yourself into such a deep hole the one you using is worn out.

Stop White-Splaining sam, please stop. Your embarrassing yourself.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:25 pm 
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So, they can't get the owners of the rest of the stores to go along with this? More proof that it's just a publicity stunt.


"Once completed, the company will make the education materials available to other companies, including our licensee partners, for use with their employees and leadership."
https://news.starbucks.com/press-releas ... ion-may-29


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Wait, how many Starbucks are there, if the company "only" owns 8000 stores?

That did seem a bit low to me. They're every three blocks in Manhattan. Almost as many as Duane Reades. They're every couple of miles in L.A..

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:04 pm 
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I've not been disagreeing with you regarding that point America is the problem.

That bit about the Black face was some leg pulling in response to your rhetorical put down comment/question which in my mind amounted to since I'm not black I don't know anything about it.


Living in the United States in a time with unprecedented access to free self-education, you have the opportunity to know plenty about it. But for whatever personal reasons, no, you don't.

Fact remains: you will never, EVER, have the experience of sitting in a retail cafe and having the police called on you and taken away in handcuffs having done nothing wrong, and committed no crime, or anything else that happens to the black men you claim to have worked on a team with.

In this way, you are in the same boat the drag queens in To Wong Foo Thanks For Everything Love Julie Newmar, when that lady shoots ping pong balls out of her ___ .

Quote:
:) I'm glad it got your goat.


Your response and behavior reveales exactly what you are. That's got nothing to do with me.

Quote:
Your current put down about the three little words, about the "black lives matter" post are taking what I said completely out of context and is misrepresenting what I said that day. That post I made where I said that was largely in support about Black Lives Matter, and it was an honest explanation about how it initially struck me and how I sorted it out.

The way you're using it now as a put down and smear is shitty. :(

You are part of the problem Carmen.


Sure, I am. :problem:

Reminder: this is a thread about two African-American professionals who got hauled off by the cops having committed no crime, something that would never happen to you regardless of how long you spend splashing yourself with dark-colored oils in some factory.

African Americans did not devise this cultural and legal system of second-class treatment based on skin color and perceived race, a system you continue benefit from on a daily, hourly, minutely basis. That same cultural and legal system is why something like BLM and all its precedents exist.

My discussing it in those terms may result in cognitive dissonance for you, but staying stuck in that cognitive dissonance is a choice. You are the 2018 equivalent of the paternalistic liberal whites of the 50s-70s who believe you are in a position to explain our every day lives to us, when you've got a plank in your eye about your own.

#cantbetrusted

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:10 pm 
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It sure is nice of Sam to figuratively put on blackface and whitesplain things to you, Carmen. :roll:

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:37 pm 
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It sure is nice of Sam to figuratively put on blackface and whitesplain things to you, Carmen. :roll:


Feh, as long as boyfriend has known me, he still doesn't have the first clue what gets my goat, despite his valiant attempts.

Lol racist whites on the internet who get offended when told their offensive behavior is offensive don't get my goat. MLK had Sam's number 50+ years ago.

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I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

-- Letter From A Birmingham Jail

Our young people having to deal with the same anti-Black crap from business and cops that we did (and still do), our parents did (and still do), our grandparents did (and still do), one gets the idea after about 4 generations. It's a lot worse for them today than it was for us, and it's been no crystal stair. But yes, let's play get carmen's goat.

Next, Sam will try dipping my pigtails in the inkwell. :problem:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:40 pm 
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LA Fitness fires 3 employees for racially profiling Black member in viral video - Grio

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In the wake of the latest Starbucks controversy, LA Fitness made sure to quickly distance itself from a trio of employees who were accused of racially profiling one of its members.

On Monday, LA Fitness member Tshyrad Oates posted video of himself at the Secaucus, NJ, location of the gym.

In the accompanying post which he shared on Facebook, Oates explains he went to the gym to work out with a friend who was also a member when he was approached by staff telling him that he needed to leave and pay.

...

In the video, Oates asks why he was being questioned and an employee tells him that he needs to leave the facility because he’s not allowed to film.

At one point even the police officers seem to be confused as to why the gym doesn’t want the two Black men on the premises.

“You guys don’t like cellphones, I get it,” one officer tells the gym employee. “But it’s not criminal activity. That’s company policy.”

Once the video became viral, LA Fitness fired the manager and two other employees to curb the backlash.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:42 pm 
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This is a cultural issue with a history in law and public policy that predates technology by about 400 years.

yea I understand this. didnt mean to downplay that one bit. Its such a basic truth its hard to understand the continued resistance or constant infringment.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Stop calling the cops on us

Black Men Arrested At Starbucks Were Only There 2 Minutes Before 911 Call Was Made - Essence

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Nelson and Robinson had only been waiting for two minutes before the cops were called.

...

In an interview with the the Associated Press, Nelson said that he feared for his life during his arrest: “Anytime I’m encountered by cops, I can honestly say it’s a thought that runs through my mind. You never know what’s going to happen.”


Meanwhile, teams of strapped-up cops pump Black men like them full of bullets because -- wait for it -- teams of strapped up cops fear for their lives, from unarmed guys. :problem:

Giant Negro Run Amok came about around the same time as Birth of A Nation.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:52 pm 
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At this point sam you need a new shovel. You've dug yourself into such a deep hole the one you using is worn out.

Stop White-Splaining sam, please stop. Your embarrassing yourself.


I got several tinny cheap sorry shovels, what I need is a new forged hardened tool steel spade. My old one is worn out and has cracked.

To a laymen a spade and a shovel look about the same. But they are not even close to being the same. The angle between the handle and the bowl is much less with a spade which allows it to be used as a chopping tool to hack through rocks. And it needs to be forged and hardened from tool steel because if it isn't the rocks just tear it apart.

All a tin shovel is good for is scooping up lose garden soil and irrigating.

All I have around here are rocks, no loose soil and no water to irrigate with.

Apparently they've quit making spades, no hardware stores carry them anymore.



Marindem, when someone twists and misrepresents my position to create a strawman and then tears it down that doesn't embarrass me.

:|


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:01 pm 
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You're the one who claimed to be a black man, Sam. Don't blame others and play the victim card.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:05 pm 
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You're the one who claimed to be a black man, Sam. Don't blame others and play the victim card.


:lol:

GoBack and read my post about that again.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:10 pm 
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:lol:

GoBack and read my post about that again.

I have. It was probably the dumbest post you've made. Congrats.

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glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:10 am 
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Even white charter school teachers can get it.

It Doesn’t Just Happen at Starbucks. Teachers Need Racial Bias Training Too. - Education Post

Looks like he's also been reading my posts.

Quote:
By the next cultural context session, I had reached my limit. I was not a racist person. I was a progressive liberal who always voted Democrat and never said the “N word.” Why did I need to sit through these sessions, especially when I had so much other work to do? If we wanted to stop race being a factor in our society, why did we keep insisting on talking about it?

As our session began, we sat in a circle while the facilitator passed around a simple conduct referral, a statement written by a teacher describing the actions of a student that had warranted disciplinary action.

The teacher claimed to have felt fearful due to the threatening approach of the student who “talked back” and “challenged” their “authority.” The student’s action were described as “aggressive behavior,” as he “hulkingly stood up from his seat.” The student was 12 years old.

This teacher likely would never refer to him or herself as a racist [ they never do :problem: -cj ], yet to refer to a 12-year-old child as “hulking, aggressive, and threatening” speaks to the internalization of equating Black bodies with violence, much the same way our society uses “thug” and “criminal” to denote an aggressive, terrifying Black male. I saw that in no way would a teacher write this referral for my two White sons. And that’s when it clicked.

In short, I felt what most White people feel when they have to talk about their place in America’s racial narrative. What I now know is that these emotions were emblematic of how much work I needed to do as a White educator to to understand my own racial identity, and how I interact with my students of color.

As a White man in America, I may not be a racist, but I am racist. I may not be a bigot, but I am biased. I may love and honor and serve my students of color, but I will never be able to fully comprehend their experiences, nor they mine. I may fight for my students and work for the access to high-quality education that is their birthright, but I am also complicit in the perpetuation of systems of racial oppression by enjoying and benefiting from the systems that give me and my two sons a head start in the race for wealth and prosperity.


Giant Negro Runs Amok attitude is foundational to white and white-aspirant identity, even the liberals, even the nice ones.

Stop calling the cops on us.

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Last edited by carmenjonze on Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:19 am 
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Early bodycams issue and inspiration of BLM. Another unarmed guy killed by a strapped up cop. 14 bullets in this young man who committed no crime. :cry: :cry: :cry: omg this was so sad.

Shooting of Dontre Hamilton - wiki

Quote:
Police Chief Edward Flynn fired Manney after the shooting.[9] In March 2015, a three-member panel of the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission unanimously upheld the firing, sustaining and confirming the two conclusions of an internal investigation, which determined that:

Manney had conducted a frisking process without a reasonable suspicion.
Manney did follow departmental "Defense and Arrest Tactics."[9]


Missing from this account is that he was shot and killed because some Starbucks employee called the cops on him. CEO Howard Schultz did some damage control, which I'm sure every Black person ought to feel satisfied with, and grateful for such opportunities for reconciliation. :problem:

Starbucks CEO to meet with Dontre Hamilton’s family - Twin Cities.com

Quote:
The CEO of Starbucks, who was scorned for his recent effort to spark a national conversation on race, is planning to meet with the family of Dontre Hamilton, the African-American man killed by a Milwaukee police officer last year after Starbucks employees called to report him sleeping in Red Arrow Park, according to Hamilton’s brother and others close to the family.

Nate Hamilton said Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz is scheduled to meet with the family on April 1 in Milwaukee.

Efforts to reach the Seattle-based company Tuesday and Wednesday to confirm the visit were not successful.

But a meeting appears consistent with the efforts Schultz laid out in a letter to Starbucks employees on Sunday announcing the end of the company’s controversial “Race Together” campaign in which baristas were encouraged to spark dialogue by inscribing the words “Race Together” on customers’ coffee cups.

“This initiative is far from over,” Schultz wrote in the letter, which says the Race Together initiative grew out of a public forum and December shareholders meeting that focused on diversity and inequality.

The company plans a number of Race Together activities over the next year, it says, including talks with police and community leaders in cities across the country, a continued focus on jobs and education for young people, and a commitment to hire 10,000 “opportunity” youth over the next three years as it expands in urban communities.


Stop calling the cops on us.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:50 pm 
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Does Detroit's Project Green Light really make the city safer?

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The afternoon Antonio Fountain died, a small team of Detroit police officers congregated along East 7 Mile and Westphalia — the crossroads where, four days earlier, on Jan. 7, Fountain and two other men were shot outside of an after-hours club.

What had been one of the hundreds of violent offenses occurring in the city each week — all competing for the attention of an ever-dwindling police force — was now a homicide, tied to a much-scrutinized clearance rate.

As the detectives moved between the inconspicuous cement compound that housed the bar and the Super Clean Coin Laundry across the street, it was difficult to ignore the flashing green light clipped to the laundromat's sign. A message to the neighborhood that this was a Project Green Light partner. That the Detroit Police Department was watching. That this was a safe place.

But Fountain's death raised an important question: Does rapidly expanding Project Green Light actually boost public safety and curtail crime? Skeptics say that can't be proven and the program tramples on privacy and misdirects money.

Police Chief James Craig, in an interview with the Free Press in .............

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:59 pm 
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yea I understand this. didnt mean to downplay that one bit. Its such a basic truth its hard to understand the continued resistance or constant infringment.


Hey MC, maybe you were talking about companies like Palantir? If you were, I definitely agree with you

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:09 pm 
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Hey MC, maybe you were talking about companies like Palantir? If you were, I definitely agree with you

wasnt particularly alluding to them but thats a good example. should be anonymous but now one business persons prejudice, gossip, suspicion is everyones. I guess its not that it is so easy but that it is so passively accepted. instead of responding to a crime its responding to a person they dont like the looks of.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Great article on CNN Money about PR Crises. Of course, as I said earlier, shutting down stores for training was a PR stunt.

What happened: Two black men were arrested at a Philadelphia Starbucks while waiting for a friend. The men entered the location and asked to use to the bathroom. An employee told them it was only for paying customers. When they then sat in the store without ordering anything, the manager called the police and the men were arrested for trespassing. No charges were filed. The incident sparked protests and garnered national attention.

The response: Starbucks CEO Kevin Johnson apologized personally for the incident, and said the arrest "should not have happened." The company added that the manager is no longer working at the store, and announced that there will be a racial bias training for all employees next month.

How they did: Starbucks was able to reclaim the narrative. "People were talking about Starbucks, not what happened," said Gilman.

Reber added that it was smart of Starbucks to respond immediately, but schedule the training for the end of May. "You fill the information vacuum with what you're going to do," he said, and have a "quiet cooling down period before you make news again with doing the right thing."

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"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


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