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 Post subject: Wellstone Action
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:36 am 
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Wellstone legacy ‘goes dormant’ after family ousted in Democratic feud
A rift at an influential progressive group named for the late Minnesota senator offers a glimpse into a thorny party debate.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/ ... ats-584205

Quote:
In the Democratic Party’s reckoning following the election of Donald Trump, an unlikely feud has erupted inside an organization at the heart of the progressive movement.

Earlier this year, the board of directors of Wellstone Action — an influential training group formed after Paul Wellstone’s death — dumbfounded Minnesota Democrats when it voted the late senator’s sons off the governing board.


The ouster came after the sons, Mark and David Wellstone, raised concerns about overspending in areas of the organization’s budget — and after a dispute over the direction and priorities of the group.

------

Founded after Wellstone’s death in a plane crash in 2002, Wellstone Action has trained thousands of progressive candidates, campaign operatives and community organizers throughout the country, with alumni serving in local and state offices and in the U.S. House. In 2016, the last year for which tax filings are available, the group reported providing training to 2,135 data and digital strategists, 723 nonprofit leaders and community organizers, and 854 aspiring political leaders.

David Wellstone and other Democrats close to his father began objecting last year to what David Wellstone described as Wellstone Action’s abandonment of disaffected Democrats in the rural Midwest — the rural poor were an early focus of the late senator — with an increasingly narrow focus on gender politics and people of color.

“I said, ‘After Trump, we’ve got to figure out how we are going to go back after those Democrats that we lost,” David Wellstone said. “We can do all the stuff we do. We do great stuff on communities of color; we’re doing great stuff on gender identity politics. But we need to do some of these other trainings. … Nobody wanted to have a discussion about that.”


David Wellstone is talking about not abandoning the center. :|


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 Post subject: Re: Wellstone Action
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 3:22 am 
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This ridiculous b.s., again. :problem:

“I said, ‘After Trump, we’ve got to figure out how we are going to go back after those Democrats that we lost,” David Wellstone said. “We can do all the stuff we do. We do great stuff on communities of color; we’re doing great stuff on gender identity politics. But we need to do some of these other trainings. … Nobody wanted to have a discussion about that.”

David Wellstone is talking about not abandoning the center. :|


:problem:

David Wellstone is apparently as dense as Bernieville, then.

This garbage about "going back after those Democrats" and this belief that these other trainings are a zero sum game is the "identity politics".

It's a straightup lie that nobody wanted to have a discussion about that: it's all the liberal and mainstream press prattles on about, 18 months into a white nationalist presidential administration.

He'd do a lot better studying why 94% of Black women voted for Hillary and making that his starting point.

Oh but that's "identity politics" that might actually require, you know, actually getting to know some of those voters :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Wellstone Action
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 4:16 am 
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This ridiculous b.s., again. :problem:



:problem:

David Wellstone is apparently as dense as Bernieville, then.

This garbage about "going back after those Democrats" and this belief that these other trainings are a zero sum game is the "identity politics".

It's a straightup lie that nobody wanted to have a discussion about that: it's all the liberal and mainstream press prattles on about, 18 months into a white nationalist presidential administration.

He'd do a lot better studying why 94% of Black women voted for Hillary and making that his starting point.

Oh but that's "identity politics" that might actually require, you know, actually getting to know some of those voters :roll:


The straight up lie, a gross misrepresentation, is in your quote, the part I set in bold. David Wellstone and I in other threads have both clearly stated that issues surrounding gender politics and people of color are important. Wellstone did not dismiss that nor have I. Wellstone did not suggest that the training and organizing for the issues surrounding gender politics and people of color were a zero sum game and should cease. Wellstone took the position as have I that the center should not be written off, and that training should not cease.


Holding the center is important too. :|


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 Post subject: Re: Wellstone Action
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:15 am 
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The straight up lie, a gross misrepresentation, is in your quote, the part I set in bold. David Wellstone and I in other threads have both clearly stated that issues surrounding gender politics and people of color are important. Wellstone did not dismiss that nor have I. Wellstone did not suggest that the training and organizing for the issues surrounding gender politics and people of color were a zero sum game and should cease. Wellstone took the position as have I that the center should not be written off, and that training should not cease.


Holding the center is important too. :|


Yeah you don't get it.

The country moves closer and closer back to the social stratification people spent 300 years throwing off, the same venal appeals that make people like Ricjard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump successful.

Trump dupes and their confederate resentments are not the center.

Don't you guys get tired of the same failed, losing strategies, decade in, decade out, chasing around and appeasing these supposed "center" chimeras?

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 Post subject: Re: Wellstone Action
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:16 am 
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It's interesting. Politico gave that story a certain spin that I'm not finding elsewhere. I.e. the inevitable focus on "identity politics".

Granted, in this earlier Feb. 14th story - such a lovely day - there was another comment by David Wellstone that gives me pause.

See, it seems like this may also have to do with issues relating to organizational finance. The Wellstone boys are saying they may have been forced out for asking the "wrong" questions about how the org named after their father is spending its money. Or, organizational priorities (on the level of actions to be taken, not ideology.)

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-wor ... tors-sons/

ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) — A liberal campaign organization dedicated to the late Minnesota Sen. Paul Wellstone is pushing out the senator’s two sons for what leaders said were differences in organizational vision. But one son countered that the board moved against them after they raised questions about possible financial issues.

Wellstone Action told The Associated Press on Wednesday that David and Mark Wellstone would be voted off the governing board in coming days following what group leaders described as months of friction. They said the Wellstones have pushed repeatedly to shift focus from training progressive candidates and campaigns to more aggressive issue advocacy following Donald Trump’s election as president.

[snip]

But David Wellstone said the issues largely started after he and two previous board members — whose terms were not extended last fall — raised concerns about overspending in the organization’s budget. He said those concerns were never addressed.

[snip]

Jessie Ulibarri, the group’s interim co-executive director, said after Trump’s 2016 victory the Wellstones began pushing for a more public role in issue advocacy. He wouldn’t say what issues the Wellstones — and two former board members whose terms lapsed last year — believed the organization should take on.

David Wellstone insisted those differences were superficial, saying he merely suggested that the organization should examine ways Democrats can win back working class voters — “these folks that voted for Paul Wellstone, President Obama and President Trump.” (*)

[snip][end]

(*) OK, so David, I was a big fan of your dad, oh and Levi S., I also like yours (whatever certain fans appear to think), incidentally, but that doesn't mean I excuse your personal douchebaggery.

David ... let's discuss, OK. Did Hillary Clinton lose the working class? No. In general, BTW, labor unions supported her (though members defected), and in fact, the poorest workers in this country actually voted for her, not her opponent. (On average, I mean.) Certainly, the nonwhite working class overwhelmingly supported her. Even when we get to that greatest of shibboleths, the rural white working class, the support for Trump was not uniform. Depends on what states we are talking about, although I will concede he pulled away enough in the Rust Belt to grab that electoral college prize. (We're setting aside issues of election meddling.)

Some of these people may have voted for Obama AND Trump. But I have a nice bet riding on this ... I bet if you look closely, very few of those voters supported your father or are actual liberal/progressives. The Democrats may have lost some segment of the "rural white working class," but unfortunately, due to their racism, nativism, sexism, and douchebaggery. We are not going to win these people back through progressive issue messaging, because they are not progressive. I would focus my efforts on educating them out of their ignorance if it's possible ;) , but that's just how I roll.

If we're not going to be honest about this, there can't be a productive discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Wellstone Action
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:41 am 
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David Siders. Who TF is David Siders? Oh...OK...a pundit who has moved from his big time reporter job at the Sacramento Bee, to his big time reporter job at Politico. Now he's a pundit. Now we all need to genuflect at the desk of David Siders.

Does anybody need to read anything more than half the opening sentence?

Quote:
In the Democratic Party’s reckoning following the election of Donald Trump...


The DNC's day of reckoning? The DNC ran the most qualified candidate for POTUS in my lifetime. Fuck you David.

The only reckoning required for reasonable people in this country is to reckon what we need to do when we find out that nearly half of Americans are assholes? That the majority white Americans (60% of them voted for Donald Trump) are assholes and a fucking disgrace to the species? There's your reckoning, David.

Reckon to which decent country we relocate. That's the only reckoning I'm involved in.

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 Post subject: Re: Wellstone Action
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:28 am 
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It's interesting. Politico gave that story a certain spin that I'm not finding elsewhere. I.e. the inevitable focus on "identity politics".

Granted, in this earlier Feb. 14th story - such a lovely day - there was another comment by David Wellstone that gives me pause.

See, it seems like this may also have to do with issues relating to organizational finance. The Wellstone boys are saying they may have been forced out for asking the "wrong" questions about how the org named after their father is spending its money. Or, organizational priorities (on the level of actions to be taken, not ideology.)

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-wor ... tors-sons/

ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) — A liberal campaign organization dedicated to the late Minnesota Sen. Paul Wellstone is pushing out the senator’s two sons for what leaders said were differences in organizational vision. But one son countered that the board moved against them after they raised questions about possible financial issues.

Wellstone Action told The Associated Press on Wednesday that David and Mark Wellstone would be voted off the governing board in coming days following what group leaders described as months of friction. They said the Wellstones have pushed repeatedly to shift focus from training progressive candidates and campaigns to more aggressive issue advocacy following Donald Trump’s election as president.

[snip]

But David Wellstone said the issues largely started after he and two previous board members — whose terms were not extended last fall — raised concerns about overspending in the organization’s budget. He said those concerns were never addressed.

[snip]

Jessie Ulibarri, the group’s interim co-executive director, said after Trump’s 2016 victory the Wellstones began pushing for a more public role in issue advocacy. He wouldn’t say what issues the Wellstones — and two former board members whose terms lapsed last year — believed the organization should take on.

David Wellstone insisted those differences were superficial, saying he merely suggested that the organization should examine ways Democrats can win back working class voters — “these folks that voted for Paul Wellstone, President Obama and President Trump.” (*)

[snip][end]

(*) OK, so David, I was a big fan of your dad, oh and Levi S., I also like yours (whatever certain fans appear to think), incidentally, but that doesn't mean I excuse your personal douchebaggery.

David ... let's discuss, OK. Did Hillary Clinton lose the working class? No. In general, BTW, labor unions supported her (though members defected), and in fact, the poorest workers in this country actually voted for her, not her opponent. (On average, I mean.) Certainly, the nonwhite working class overwhelmingly supported her. Even when we get to that greatest of shibboleths, the rural white working class, the support for Trump was not uniform. Depends on what states we are talking about, although I will concede he pulled away enough in the Rust Belt to grab that electoral college prize. (We're setting aside issues of election meddling.)

Some of these people may have voted for Obama AND Trump. But I have a nice bet riding on this ... I bet if you look closely, very few of those voters supported your father or are actual liberal/progressives. The Democrats may have lost some segment of the "rural white working class," but unfortunately, due to their racism, nativism, sexism, and douchebaggery. We are not going to win these people back through progressive issue messaging, because they are not progressive. I would focus my efforts on educating them out of their ignorance if it's possible ;) , but that's just how I roll.

If we're not going to be honest about this, there can't be a productive discussion.


I've read both articles closely. Rather than describe the Politico article as spin I would describe it as having more closely told the story from the Wellstone point of view, and the Seattle Times article more closely told it from the current boards point of view.

You said, "I would focus my efforts on educating them out of their ignorance if it's possible. ;)" That would be a good idea and that's a part of my policy.

I don't begin by calling them names.

One thing I see and of which Wellstone spoke of in that quoted part from the Politico article about which others may be unaware of is the current crop of progressives tend to be ignorant of rural agricultural issues, they do tend to focus on urban issues, issues for which the rural people tend to be ignorant. This is not about racism, nativism, sexism. These issues can be addressed by a common party because they don't compete. However those issues can be ignored and as thus exclude one part of the party.

And then later explain that the defection came about as a result of they having not been progressives to start with.

When was the last time when you tried to understand what's needed in a farm bill? Or what farmers need in an energy bill? Or what farmers need in a bill which addresses global warming?


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 Post subject: Re: Wellstone Action
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:50 am 
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When was the last time when you tried to understand what's needed in a farm bill?


If that question was to me personally, rather than in a general sense, I would say the last time I went through the annual one in detail, was when I worked at the Union of Concerned Scientists, back in 1992.

I still have opinions on agricultural policy, particularly agricultural subsidies, though the last farmer I knew most closely had been my stepfather, who was a farmer, although decades ago.

Quote:
Or what farmers need in an energy bill? Or what farmers need in a bill which addresses global warming?[


Those topics often came up. BTW, the organization worked with a variety of agricultural organizations on those issues -- incidentally. In the groups' activist network were a number of farmers: I remember, as an intern there, I talked to many of them. Though mostly on the phone. Interns don't usually get to leave DC.

BTW2, I have no disagreement that the Democratic party should focus on protecting family farms (not agribusiness, so much, it seems to be doing fine) or combatting rural poverty. As well as dealing with urban issues.

Of course, this country is mostly urbanized, and post-agricultural at this point, so from an electoral standpoint, you can't blame people for noticing that at least at the national level, the number of rural people and farmers is shrinking. In the latter case, due to the increasing industrialization, mechanization, and mega-corporatization of agriculture. That said, when it comes to the congressional districts of this country, any political party that totally ignores the rural ones will have problems.

BTW3, I think I should clear something up. I am not implying that rural voters are nativist as a whole. Nor am I denying the history of rural progressivism; I know about the Democratic Farmer Labor party. Just that the rural Trump vote was nativist, and not progressive. As to why I believe this, it's due to empirical research and evidence on that very topic, I've presented here, several times. "How do we win the Trump voters back?" Well, I can tell you one way I refuse to do it -- meet them where their heads appear to be right now. I am not going to echo Trump's anti-intellectualism, nativism, misogyny, racism, or general lack of coherence. Nor his authoritarianism and fascist-lite right-populism. I just say no. Plus, as Bill Maher asked, why the hell are "salt of the Earth" rural people falling for this NEW YAWK CITY urban conman and reality celebrity who I'm betting doesn't actually like them.

When the fuck was the last time Donald Trump was on a farm? He certainly does spread around a lot of pig shit.

I should add, however Ikean it sounds, anybody who thought Donald Trump was the more progressive choice in 2016 was a fool. Don't care about whether they were white, black, purple, male, female, rural, urban, upper or lower class, Hispanic or Eritrean. Other than some incoherent noises about trade, and a promise to lower drug prices that he's totally abandoned, and a promise to promote infrastructure that seems to have died on the vine, and statements about health care that were contradictory (meanwhile, all he's DONE is dismantle ACA). But Hillary Clinton also said she was opposing TPP (again, whether you believed her or not), was going to lower drug prices, and promote an infrastructure plan, and promote a public option. And contra what some claim, directed several parts of her platform to programs helping working class people, even rural ones.

Incidentally, I've sidestepped the whole issue of rural people tending to be more religious than urbanites, but it's still at least a small elephant, somewhere in the room.

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 Post subject: Re: Wellstone Action
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Good stuff, Professor.

Do they applaud lectures at the end of the term where you are? You get a standing ovation if they do.

The religion issue is actually a fairly large, perhaps adolescent, elephant, but I'm not sure how the Democratic Party should address it. People closer to the situation would know more. The right appropriated God and Manifest Destiny fairly early in the post-Viet Nam game, and for all I know, it may be too far gone.

The Democratic Party needs something. Berniebots had their time, but alas, now the Russian psyop has planted doubt even for the huge majority who are sincere. Someone else needs to pick up the progressive flag and rally the forces. I can think of any number of possibilities.

I do know that fighting the drumpf psychosis by acting even more psychotic is a great way to lose.

> Wellstone Action

I always did think that plane crash was awfully well timed. Afterwards, you could practically hear the air rushing out of what used to be American liberalism. Now Democrats have the same old sectarian battles over his legacy.

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 Post subject: Re: Wellstone Action
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:35 pm 
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Yeah you don't get it.

The country moves closer and closer back to the social stratification people spent 300 years throwing off, the same venal appeals that make people like Ricjard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump successful.

Trump dupes and their confederate resentments are not the center.

Don't you guys get tired of the same failed, losing strategies, decade in, decade out, chasing around and appeasing these supposed "center" chimeras?



So how do you define all those voters who voted once maybe twice for President Obama then turned around and voted against HRC. The country moves from center right to center left, always center. Currently the DNC leadership does not appeal to the center. Pelosi, Schumer, Ellison, Warren and others just do not appeal or relate to flyover country.

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 Post subject: Re: Wellstone Action
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:17 pm 
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So how do you define all those voters who voted once maybe twice for President Obama then turned around and voted against HRC.


Trump dupes. What ever of them actually exist outside of conservative mythology.

Quote:
The country moves from center right to center left, always center. Currently the DNC leadership does not appeal to the center.


"The country" has not seen a presidential campaign based on racist demagoguery like the Trump campaign in modern history. Yet you guys fell for it. And you're going to keep falling for it as long as you're dishonest with yourselves, lie to yourselves, about what you are.

One of the reasons I keep saying people need to analyze the African-American women's vote on the level that they do this mythological "white working class vote" is that although we were also targeted by Kremlin ads and Cambridge Analytica malfeasance, unlike your anti-intellect, education-hostile community, we did not fall for it.

Unlike you guys, we were not succeptible to this kind of propaganda in the 2016 election. And yet, you consider us "low information voters" because that's what your snowflake, supremacist, victimhood culture tells you. If anything, you're victims of your owh hate-based beliefs and group-based social goals. It's easy to manipulate white conservative resentment. All you have to do is flash pictures of women in hijabs, brown people of any gender, a clip from a pride parade, or of course a Black person who appears to be middle class.

Then just say something about "jobs" or "silent majority" "laws and order" or whatever. It's been working for the RNC/GOP for the past two generations, and why wouldn't it? The same propaganda has worked on you since the Know Nothing era. This mentality is a national security risk, at this point. Foreign hostile governments successfully wielded it in 2016.

Quote:
Pelosi, Schumer, Ellison, Warren and others just do not appeal or relate to flyover country.


"Flyover country" is elitist language from an elitist concept. Why are you using it?

"Pelosi, Schumer, Ellison, Warren" are just scare terms dropped into RNC marketing materials to get munny. Again, you guys predictably fall for it.

Conservative cult members too stupid or simply too venal to recognize how they're being manipulated by demagoguery fall for it, just like a lot of you fell for ads right out of the Kremlin.

Dumb dupes.

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