RadioFreeLiberal.com

Smart Voices, Be Heard
It is currently Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:00 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:35 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 17022
Throwing the games isn't going to be an issue, but points shaving CERTAINLY is. Especially among college - because colleges make sure poor athletes STAY poor. Taking money to shave points is easy to do.


That is an unprovable opinion. In the past that happened quite a lot but, in todays world there are many safeguards in place that make it next to impossible to get away with it.

In the past what would happen is [ using a 100% hypothetical] a small school like Akron U would be playing another small school say U of Buffalo. A game nobody but a few alum and bettors would ever care about. So they would get a player or two to shave a point and make a few thousand.


In todays world a few thousand is chickenfeed. Plus they know how much is bet and how many bets are being made. So if suddenly a pile of money starts pouring in on Akron U from two or three sources red flags go off and the situation gets monitored.

There have been times when all bets have been cancelled prior to a game starting due to suspicious activity.

BTW Sidebar, college athletes receive a scholarship worth in most cases 6 figures, a stipend and if they qualify they also get their pell grant and other monies. The real problem is many do come from poor families and have never had any real folding money. Therefore have zero skills budgeting or handling money. Plus the money comes in large lump sums as opposed to say a monthly payment.

So 18-19-20 year old kid gets a 5k check....as you often say what could go wrong.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:53 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:07 am
Posts: 10088
I dunno. Puns are supposed to be funny. Those weren't, if they were puns.


Funny or ironic. Puns are multidimensional.

Image

Do you see the heavy cast irony.

I define vice as ironic things which folks do of their own volition which tends to puts the clamp on them. That ought to explain the pun and also why I class religion as being vise. ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:54 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:26 pm
Posts: 36054
Sam, you think you're more clever than you are.

_________________
glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:05 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:07 am
Posts: 10088
Yeah, his humor often escapes me too.

But, I think the point was to deliberately change "vice" (i.e. opposite of virtue) to "vise" to emphasize these things are traps you can get stuck in.

I agree with his point about religion possibly being one of those things.

I'd even extend the list.

That said, yeah, I think we can't treat physiological addictions (like heroin) and psychological addictions (like gambling) exactly the same - although new evidence suggests the mechanisms of psychological addiction also have neural pathways.

I also think in between Milton Friedman's libertarian paradise of what can be bought or sold should be (that includes human organs, or your children) and total prohibition are other options, those are the ones I advocate, like decriminalization, harm reduction, and regulation.

I think a harm reduction approach to gambling works well, just as it does with drugs, incidentally. Yeah, some people will say, gambling destroys lives and families, but what can you do about it? (Insert shrug here.) Those people often are libertarians, and I am not. :mrgreen: I'm not saying banning stuff is the proper role for government, but helping people not destroy themselves, is. The government should not regulate calorie intake (boy was that a fun argument with tritumi), but I definitely think there is a role for helping people deal with obesity.

One more thing - he's right about the forbidden fruit effect, but it's more complicated than the way he presents it. In particular, nonlinearities do start to show up in the relationship he's describing. Also, there are contextual variables that affect that inverse relationship.
https://exploringyourmind.com/forbidden-fruit-effect/


My humor didn't escape you this time. And you correctly read the metaphor. :)

We seem to be on a page regarding the issue. My list was not intended to be exhaustive.

I include boxing, and contact sports, however I exclude sports such as track and field. Shaving points and throwing games is a case of one vise putting a hard clamp on another vice.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:07 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:07 am
Posts: 10088
Sam, you think you're more clever than you are.


:lol:

Your comment pleases me. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:37 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:26 pm
Posts: 36054

:lol:

Your comment pleases me. :D

Which does prove my point.

_________________
glenfs, July 4, 2018:

"You would think that after 8 years of hearing allegations against Bill C and another 8 against President Obama you people would have learned that 90% of those types of allegations just aren't true."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:38 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:01 pm
Posts: 15528

:lol:

Your comment pleases me. :D


Mine! MINE!!! My comments should please you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:41 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:27 pm
Posts: 7905
Location: miles from nowhere
Can't legislate behavior? ALL laws are about legislating behavior.

But that is irrelevant.

We are simply moving the finish line of decline a few feet closer. Doesn't really matter in the long run.

I do agree that monies will have to be set aside to deal with the aftermath.

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:00 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:57 pm
Posts: 11228
Location: Sunny South Florida
The forbidden fruit effect argument can't be taken as the final answer to dealing with problems.

Yes, if you tell people they can't buy chemical weapons, that will make some people want to buy chemical weapons. This is true of anything forbidden. Sam's inverse law.

Still not a bad reason, not to let people buy and own chemical weapons. Even if telling them they can't have them will make some people want them more. Even if we accept laws can be evaded. The laws against bank robbery are evaded, but that's not a reason to drop them.

Going back to gambling, in particular, there are lots of pro and con arguments, maybe it's just because I've lived here and have absorbed my environment, but the South Florida approach seems relatively sensible. They have allowed casinos to open, but with restrictions as to where, and all kinds of other constraints. And, as was pointed out here, long before other casinos were open, Seminole and Mikasuki were already operating theirs. Plus, you could go to the Bahamas, or actually just jump on a boat, wait till it got 12 miles offshore, and gamble to your heart's content. It's not like people didn't have these other options before.

Seems to me the best answer. There will be fallout and damage, and as I said, being a non libertarian, I think governments need to deal with it. Also, it's an observational fact that organized crime tends to be drawn to these operations. It happened in Nevada, heck the Godfather movies deal with it.

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:10 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:27 pm
Posts: 7905
Location: miles from nowhere
The forbidden fruit effect argument can't be taken as the final answer to dealing with problems.

Yes, if you tell people they can't buy chemical weapons, that will make some people want to buy chemical weapons. This is true of anything forbidden. Sam's inverse law.

Still not a bad reason, not to let people buy and own chemical weapons. Even if telling them they can't have them will make some people want them more. Even if we accept laws can be evaded. The laws against bank robbery are evaded, but that's not a reason to drop them.

Going back to gambling, in particular, there are lots of pro and con arguments, maybe it's just because I've lived here and have absorbed my environment, but the South Florida approach seems relatively sensible. They have allowed casinos to open, but with restrictions as to where, and all kinds of other constraints. And, as was pointed out here, long before other casinos were open, Seminole and Mikasuki were already operating theirs. Plus, you could go to the Bahamas, or actually just jump on a boat, wait till it got 12 miles offshore, and gamble to your heart's content. It's not like people didn't have these other options before.

Seems to me the best answer. There will be fallout and damage, and as I said, being a non libertarian, I think governments need to deal with it. Also, it's an observational fact that organized crime tends to be drawn to these operations. It happened in Nevada, heck the Godfather movies deal with it.

I won't argue the need for regulations, rules etc. Their need is obvious. It merely amuses me to hear people say that you can't legislate behavior or morality.

The changing of the finish line doesn't really mean much in the long term. All so-called great nations decline. We are no different. And legalized gambling is simply another form of bread-and-circuses.

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:11 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:27 pm
Posts: 7905
Location: miles from nowhere

Funny or ironic. Puns are multidimensional.

Image

Do you see the heavy cast irony.

I define vice as ironic things which folks do of their own volition which tends to puts the clamp on them. That ought to explain the pun and also why I class religion as being vise. ;)

so, advice can add a vise?

_________________
bird's theorem-"we the people" are stupid.

"No one is so foolish as to choose war over peace. In peace sons bury their fathers, in war fathers bury their sons." - Herodotus


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:13 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:07 am
Posts: 10088
so, advice can add a vise?


With normal everyday vise a person cranks their own handle and puts the clamp on themselves.

With advise there's someone added, someone helping by cranking the handle, helping the person who gets the clamp get clamped.


When someone comes around to give advise I put my hands in my pockets and I'm careful about where I put my feet. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:32 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:07 am
Posts: 10088

Mine! MINE!!! My comments should please you!!!!!!!!!!!!!


VISE COPS!!! Carry around a battering ram!!!!!!!!!!!!! And have a pair of these they use to put the clamp on people. :(

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group