RadioFreeLiberal.com

Smart Voices, Be Heard
It is currently Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:05 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:57 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:26 pm
Posts: 36372
Is this a good thing? We can remember when gambling of any sort was confined to a few places, like Las Vegas and Atlantic City.

Now it's all over the place, and growing.

Is this a good thing for a society? I enjoyed gambling for a while, but really don't do it any more. When they opened casinos near my hometown, my cousin's family was pretty much bankrupted by it. It preys on gullible people.

What is YOUR position on it?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:01 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 17366
Yes it is a good thing freedom always is. It is time we quit pretending things like gambling as well as weed dont exist. It is estimated 150 billion a year is illegally bet
I believe the true number is much higher. We need to legislate so things like this is taxed is legal and is safe.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:03 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 17366
As for your cousin while that is sad and does happen. I have a friend who died of alcoholism at age 49. Should we bring back prohibition because drinking destroys some people's lives.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:40 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:57 pm
Posts: 11561
Location: Sunny South Florida
The problem is that gambling is essentially an intensely regressive tax on the poor. It's poor people, more often than wealthy folks (not all gamblers are elegant tux-wearing James Bonds), that are losing their shirts (and homes) in Dapper Don's casinos.

That said, the government looks a bit hypocritical when attacking casinos for doing this, while running lotteries that essentially function the same way. That I will say.

In general, I'm OK with keeping gambling legal, but heavily regulated. That's how Nevada does it. One problem, of course, is that the Mob tends to move in on gambling operations, say, do we have a president that used to run casinos, ... but I digress.

Second place I would put government funds is in helping and treating people with gambling addictions.

The reality is the SCOTUS decision was not really the court offering a position on gambling itself, but essentially taking a stance on an issue of federalism, i.e. can the feds pressure states on their gambling laws. They said no.

Final point: whether or not gambling should be legal, some view the specific topic of sports betting as a problematic aspect of gambling (more than say poker or roulette) because of its effect on sports itself. Thus, while we might allow casinos, we might regulate whether they can offer sports betting.

FanDuel and SportsKIng, I will say, largely are evasive on the issue of whether they're offering a gambling operation online; they claim fantasy football is a game of skill, I guess, but only in the same way that Poker is - to some extent - even though it's basically also a matter of chance. There's also the problem of insider knowledge (about teams, players, rosters, and algorithms, etc.) giving some folks an unfair advantage over others.

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger


Last edited by ProfessorX on Wed May 16, 2018 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:07 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:26 pm
Posts: 36372
I'm certainly not calling for gambling to be banned.

However, I'm looking at this from a societal health standpoint. It's one thing if gambling is isolated - you have to take a vacation to Las Vegas to gamble, rather than having it around the corner, where you can go every night.

So now we're going to have sports books in every quick-e-mart?

Wouldn't this be a situation where some moderation would be warranted? When gambling is in Vegas, it's not really a tax on the poor, because it has to be a special thing, and the poor can't afford to travel to start with.

I'm also not convinced that state-run lotteries are a societal good, either. It's an easy way to shift taxes, once again, onto the poor. You won't see guys like Donald Trump or Jeff Bezos at the quick-e-mart buying a quarter-million in scratch-offs.

Having said that, full disclosure, when the pot is really big, I often buy one ticket, though I'm not sure I would be happy if I won. To be honest, I'm truly, as the song says, a "satisfied man". I love my life, and being financially comfortable may be the most I could ever ask for. Wealth brings a whole new level of problems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:21 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:57 pm
Posts: 11561
Location: Sunny South Florida
When you go to gamble, I think there's two things you should know.

1) Of course, the games are ALL rigged in the House's favor, that's how they keep the doors open. Same reason why at carnivals and fairs the basketball shoot-a-hoop games are using smaller than regulation rims. Sure, whine about having a fair chance. If you (collectively, on average, plural noun) didn't lose more often than win, they wouldn't offer the game in the first place. They are not there to give away lots of stuffed animals and prizes to everybody. Casinos are capitalist. They want to make money. That means people have to lose most of the time. Grim, but true, reality.

2) I personally think one thing most gambling takes advantage of is peoples' poor understanding of probability. Most people playing the lottery just do not get how astronomically impossible it is to win.

So ... here's my confession. Here in South Florida, they have legalized gambling, but only at places that were already offering para-mutuel operations -- that means horse tracks, dog tracks, and jai-alai frontons. BTW, it is also legal on Native reservations, hence the Seminole Hard Rock Casino.

I never go. My Mom does. Once in a very blue moon, I go to the Bahamas - it's not too far away - and will play slots. I don't do much else. I noticed when I was at the Atlantis, they have a sports betting room there. I never bet a dime there, but it is an amazing place to watch your favorite sports games. :D

I usually play nickel slots. I know you can't win big, but you also lose your money slowly. I have probably never ever won more than $40 on those machines, and of course, given everything I just said, I recognize I lose more often. Basically, especially with the newer style electronic slots, I really kind of view it more as like spending money on entertainment. The animations on those machines can be a hoot, especially in the bonus rounds. I view it as paying for entertainment, just like renting a movie.

With that attitude, I decide how much I'm willing to pay for that entertainment, and stop once I've lost that amount.

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:23 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:01 pm
Posts: 16056
Yes it is a good thing freedom always is. It is time we quit pretending things like gambling as well as weed dont exist. It is estimated 150 billion a year is illegally bet
I believe the true number is much higher. We need to legislate so things like this is taxed is legal and is safe.


Oh yassss...it's a great thing. If stupid motherfuckers want to wreck their lives forking over their money betting on a bunch of pampered thugs with CTE slamming their heads into each other it's no skin off my nose.

PS - Any idiot gambler who goes broke should have special gambler guidelines applied when they walk into bankruptcy court. And don't come whining to me that you can't make it only on social security. And Gambler's Anonymous? Really? It's not a physical addiction, it's a personality disorder.

Typical glen.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 11:26 am 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:20 pm
Posts: 6353
I have never been a big fan of gambling or lotteries. I was in the real estate business for many years and have watched as people were evicted from their homes because they lost their rent money to gambling. I understand that some people, most people, can handle it and it is only entertainment. Same with alcohol. But once you see a couple of kids crying as their furniture and toys are put on the curb, it adds a whole different perspective.

I don’t know what the answer is. You can’t legislate common sense, self control, or morality.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:28 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:10 pm
Posts: 17373
Location: The blue parts of the map
At least this time, SCOTUS didn't say gambling was free speech.

In practice it's a small gain for states in revenue, and a huge gain for Caesar's and Harrah's. Both have been ready to hit the ground running for years. They'll be doing sports books with the states and getting a bunch more money that used to go to illegal gambling. Primary loser is the Mob, though they'll figure out how to get a piece soon enough. Primary winner is the 1%. That always seems to happen in major SCOTUS decisions lately.

Yes, it'll be a lot easier to take even more money from the poor, though they often gamble anyway. Agreed with whoever said that it's not all high rollers and James Bond in Monaco.

_________________
We used to hang our traitors. Now we elect them to lead us.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:44 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 17366

Oh yassss...it's a great thing. If stupid motherfuckers want to wreck their lives forking over their money betting on a bunch of pampered thugs with CTE slamming their heads into each other it's no skin off my nose.

PS - Any idiot gambler who goes broke should have special gambler guidelines applied when they walk into bankruptcy court. And don't come whining to me that you can't make it only on social security. And Gambler's Anonymous? Really? It's not a physical addiction, it's a personality disorder.

Typical glen.


Typical Ike

Most people who gamble be it sports cards dice or slots are doing so as a form of entertainment spending their excess funds which they have saved or budgeted.

Like drinking few develop an addiction or problem. I wonder what you do for recreation personally I gamble and budget 500 a month to do so. At the end of the year my gambling hobby costs me less than 2000.

Now some people bowl some golf some garden others have show cars. All hobbies cost money people who gamble no more waste their money than people with other hobbies

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:46 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:53 am
Posts: 13223
Is this a good thing? We can remember when gambling of any sort was confined to a few places, like Las Vegas and Atlantic City.

Now it's all over the place, and growing.

Is this a good thing for a society? I enjoyed gambling for a while, but really don't do it any more. When they opened casinos near my hometown, my cousin's family was pretty much bankrupted by it. It preys on gullible people.

What is YOUR position on it?

Dont the sports team owners get a cut of the betting? I heard that.

If so that is why this is happening.

_________________
I dont criticize other liberals, even when I disagree with them. United fronts work better! But that is just me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:47 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 17366
I'm certainly not calling for gambling to be banned.

However, I'm looking at this from a societal health standpoint. It's one thing if gambling is isolated - you have to take a vacation to Las Vegas to gamble, rather than having it around the corner, where you can go every night.

So now we're going to have sports books in every quick-e-mart?

Wouldn't this be a situation where some moderation would be warranted? When gambling is in Vegas, it's not really a tax on the poor, because it has to be a special thing, and the poor can't afford to travel to start with.

I'm also not convinced that state-run lotteries are a societal good, either. It's an easy way to shift taxes, once again, onto the poor. You won't see guys like Donald Trump or Jeff Bezos at the quick-e-mart buying a quarter-million in scratch-offs.

Having said that, full disclosure, when the pot is really big, I often buy one ticket, though I'm not sure I would be happy if I won. To be honest, I'm truly, as the song says, a "satisfied man". I love my life, and being financially comfortable may be the most I could ever ask for. Wealth brings a whole new level of problems.



That is not the way it is going to work unless state lotteries become involved or they decide to allow online gambling.

What will happen is if you want to place a bet it will have to be primarlly at a location that is now open for gaming.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:48 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 17366
Dont the sports team owners get a cut of the betting? I heard that.

If so that is why this is happening.


Currently no but they are lobbying to get a cut

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:09 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:01 pm
Posts: 16056

Typical Ike.

Most people who gamble be it sports cards dice or slots are doing so as a form of entertainment spending their excess funds which they have saved or budgeted.



Typical glen.

Most people who gamble for fun are as moronic as people who shoot heroin for fun.

They will legalize gambling which easily ruins way, way more families than weed. But will they legalize weed? Of course not.

_________________
Image


Last edited by Ike Bana on Wed May 16, 2018 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:12 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 17366
Dont the sports team owners get a cut of the betting? I heard that.

If so that is why this is happening.



Where their current benefit lays is that once sports betting takes off it will increase TV ratings. By giving people in Missouri a reason to watch the Pirates ply the Padres on a Thursday night in june.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:20 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 17366

Typical glen.

Most people who gamble for fun are as moronic as people who shoot heroin for fun.

They will legalize gambling which easily ruins way, way more families than weed. But will they legalize weed? Of course not.



You are an odd guy, or maybe typical I am not sure which. Look at how you view people who hold an opinion that is different than yours. Be it political or even recreational and I am sure on just about any other subject.

It seems that any person that is not like you is in your opinion a moron. No matter if it is their political opinion or if they enjoy watching sports, especially football now gaming. Is there anything that people do or believe which you don't that is ok with you?

BTW, in all seriousness what do you do to relax and unwind? I play poker, bet on sports, watch sports and play fantasy football with the guys I went to high school with. I am betting that in your opinion that makes me a moron times 4 and am setting the line at 140/100.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:22 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:57 pm
Posts: 11561
Location: Sunny South Florida
So ... as I said, sport betting has specific issues relating to it, that go beyond the problems of gambling in general.

I doubt anybody personally remembers it here :D , but it's a big part of the movie Field of Dreams ... The Black Sox Scandal of 1920.

"Shoeless Joe" Jackson and a number of players were ejected from the game. Why? Illegally fixing matches ... because of people betting on the games.

When you bet on sports, there's a financial incentive for players or teams to throw/willfully lose games. Or cheat. There are issues of sports integrity.

Of course, you have to make sure the players don't bet themselves ... that can lead to real problems, it kept Pete Rose out of the Hall of Fame.

It's interesting. The leagues themselves are now saying they no longer think this is a problem. Are they sure, or is it because they're going to insist on a big cut of the action?

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:42 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:53 am
Posts: 13223
So ... as I said, sport betting has specific issues relating to it, that go beyond the problems of gambling in general.

I doubt anybody personally remembers it here :D , but it's a big part of the movie Field of Dreams ... The Black Sox Scandal of 1920.

"Shoeless Joe" Jackson and a number of players were ejected from the game. Why? Illegally fixing matches ... because of people betting on the games.

When you bet on sports, there's a financial incentive for players or teams to throw/willfully lose games. Or cheat. There are issues of sports integrity.

Of course, you have to make sure the players don't bet themselves ... that can lead to real problems, it kept Pete Rose out of the Hall of Fame.

It's interesting. The leagues themselves are now saying they no longer think this is a problem. Are they sure, or is it because they're going to insist on a big cut of the action?

The league owners are rich assholes who only see dollar signs now and dont give a shit about the integrity of the game, which IS at stake here, probably.

Having said that, I love gambling, even to the point where I have now recognized it as a problem no different than my other addiction problems.

Sheldon Adelson has bought the GOP so they wont legalize internet poker, since it will hurt his income and he is only worth 10 billion so you know, typical piece of shit. Now I like playing poker, holdem especially and I have been known to be pretty good at it when I can have the patience to play.

I could still easily lose a lot of money, though. So while I think it should be legal for the same reason I think almost everything other than physical harm and stealing should be, it could be a problem for me and I am better off without it.

_________________
I dont criticize other liberals, even when I disagree with them. United fronts work better! But that is just me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:49 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 17366
The league owners are rich assholes who only see dollar signs now and dont give a shit about the integrity of the game, which IS at stake here, probably.

Having said that, I love gambling, even to the point where I have now recognized it as a problem no different than my other addiction problems.

Sheldon Adelson has bought the GOP so they wont legalize internet poker, since it will hurt his income and he is only worth 10 billion so you know, typical piece of shit. Now I like playing poker, holdem especially and I have been known to be pretty good at it when I can have the patience to play.

I could still easily lose a lot of money, though. So while I think it should be legal for the same reason I think almost everything other than physical harm and stealing should be, it could be a problem for me and I am better off without it.


We agree totally about team owners especially NFL owners. Funny you should mention Adelson. Recently I read in a poker magazine about how he recently said he opposes online poker because it is a detriment to society. From a man who owns at least one and I believe several casinos.

Best thing about Sheldon is his age.

_________________
"my choice is for people like you to be deported -Ike Bana 5/13/18

"within weeks of being rid of the likes of you, rid of every fucking one of you,we would begin to see what kind of country this ought to be" Ike Bana 6/14/18


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:54 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:26 pm
Posts: 36372
Throwing the games isn't going to be an issue, but points shaving CERTAINLY is. Especially among college - because colleges make sure poor athletes STAY poor. Taking money to shave points is easy to do.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:19 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:07 am
Posts: 10394
I don't like gambling and that is neither here nor there insofar as my opinion with regard to the legality of gambling.

Vise is a class of things, gambling is vise as are drinking, drugs, prostitution, and religion. Yes I categorize religion as vise. :|

Some regulation and taxation of vise can help society. However when it comes to Prohibition of vise, and enforcement of that Prohibition, it ALWAYS is a reverse acting relationship, the more effort applied toward the enforcement, the worse the problem becomes. It's always counter productive.


So my opinion is don't try, don't ever try to prohibit vise.


Insofar as prohibiting it, let the opiate addiction problem go too. Allow them to kill themselves. I think it is OK to work on the problem with social services, and regulate the market, and tax it. But if someone is determined to use opiates let them, allow them to use it even if they die.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:21 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:26 pm
Posts: 36372
I don't like gambling and that is neither here nor there insofar as my opinion with regard to the legality of gambling.

Vise is a class of things, gambling is vise as are drinking, drugs, prostitution, and religion. Yes I categorize religion as vise. :|

Some regulation and taxation of vise can help society. However when it comes to Prohibition of vise, and enforcement of that Prohibition, it ALWAYS is a reverse acting relationship, the more effort applied toward the enforcement, the worse the problem becomes. It's always counter productive.


So my opinion is don't try, don't ever try to prohibit vise.


Insofar as prohibiting it, let the opiate addiction problem go too. Allow them to kill themselves. I think it is OK to work on the problem with social services, and regulate the market, and tax it. But if someone is determined to use opiates let them, allow them to use it even if they die.

FYI, it's spelled "vice".


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:25 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:57 pm
Posts: 11561
Location: Sunny South Florida
Yeah, that's Sam punning, again.

I don't think he mispelled the word accidentally several times.

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:26 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus

Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:26 pm
Posts: 36372
Yeah, that's Sam punning, again.

I don't think he mispelled the word accidentally several times.

I dunno. Puns are supposed to be funny. Those weren't, if they were puns.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:30 pm 
Offline
Board Emeritus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:57 pm
Posts: 11561
Location: Sunny South Florida
Yeah, his humor often escapes me too.

But, I think the point was to deliberately change "vice" (i.e. opposite of virtue) to "vise" to emphasize these things are traps you can get stuck in.

I agree with his point about religion possibly being one of those things.

I'd even extend the list.

That said, yeah, I think we can't treat physiological addictions (like heroin) and psychological addictions (like gambling) exactly the same - although new evidence suggests the mechanisms of psychological addiction also have neural pathways.

I also think in between Milton Friedman's libertarian paradise of what can be bought or sold should be (that includes human organs, or your children) and total prohibition are other options, those are the ones I advocate, like decriminalization, harm reduction, and regulation.

I think a harm reduction approach to gambling works well, just as it does with drugs, incidentally. Yeah, some people will say, gambling destroys lives and families, but what can you do about it? (Insert shrug here.) Those people often are libertarians, and I am not. :mrgreen: I'm not saying banning stuff is the proper role for government, but helping people not destroy themselves, is. The government should not regulate calorie intake (boy was that a fun argument with tritumi), but I definitely think there is a role for helping people deal with obesity.

One more thing - he's right about the forbidden fruit effect, but it's more complicated than the way he presents it. In particular, nonlinearities do start to show up in the relationship he's describing. Also, there are contextual variables that affect that inverse relationship.
https://exploringyourmind.com/forbidden-fruit-effect/

_________________
-- Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Malaclypse the Younger


Last edited by ProfessorX on Wed May 16, 2018 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group