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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:25 am 
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Certain Conservative Members are saying how they support Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) on her stance regarding the possible Impeachment of 45. Well guess what sports fans, Democrats in tight House Races are backing away from, if not running away from Ms. Pelosi.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/ar ... 015528.php.

There is a growing disaffection regarding Ms. Pelosi. There is no possible guarantee that she will in fact be in leadership in January. She has, like Senator Diane Feinstein has become a lightening rod for the Republicans.

I am lucky in that I do have to bothered by voting for her. Not that I would. She is well past her use by date. Nor have I or will I contribute to her campaign.

Under her "Leadership" the Democrats lost the Majority and continue to lose seats, which is real reason why certain Republicans claim to support her. They know that as long as she out there, she can further damage the party. Republicans fund raise on her name.

It woud do House Democrats well to distance themselves from her. She is a hazard to the party.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:44 am 
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To be honest, I don't really give a shit for any "disaffection" for Nancy Pelosi. But sadly, what I expect more than anything is for politicians of any stripe to put their ambitions and their petty differences in front of making sure that a malicious demagogue is gone, and the party that supports him is removed from control. We face what we face, so stuff your petty disaffection with Nancy Pelosi and your political ambitions up your ass and get the job done.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:48 am 
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To be honest, I don't really give a shit for any "disaffection" for Nancy Pelosi. But sadly, what I expect more than anything is for politicians of any stripe to put their ambitions and their petty differences in front of making sure that a malicious demagogue is gone, and the party that supports him is removed from control. We face what we face, so stuff your petty disaffection with Nancy Pelosi and your political ambitions up your ass and get the job done.

I wish we had "like" buttons here, I would like the fuck out of your response.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:00 pm 
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I wish we had "like" buttons here, I would like the fuck out of your response.


Thanks...blaming Nancy Pelosi for what is going on in this country is utter petty bullshit.

We are at where we are at in this country because the country is close to half full of asshole white christian victims of oppression...not because of Nancy Pelosi. So how's a out we STFU about Nancy Pelosi and get to work supporting anybody who isn't a Trumper or a Republican.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:06 pm 
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DiFi saved her ass with the immigration bill. It never had a chance, and everyone knew it, but it made her look like she was doing something so we'd stop busying out her many phone numbers. (I have 5 of them.) She's running against some Republican. The guy's not exactly Mr. Charisma.

Pelosi, dunno, she's a problem and I'm glad I don't have to vote for her, and she's definitely past her pull date, but she's not what's wrong this time. She's what was wrong last time. Fascism is what's wrong this time.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:13 pm 
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She's a problem because Republicans don't like her? "...past her pull date?"

Assertions are not statements of fact.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:19 pm 
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Mine are opinions. Political discussions tend to have lots of those.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Mine are opinions. Political discussions tend to have lots of those.

Understood. But what good are opinions if you don't couple them with reasoning and facts?

In other words, why do you seem to dislike Pelosi so much?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:29 pm 
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She was in the way when the last Republican president was screwing everything up. I guess old grudges die hard.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Understood. But what good are opinions if you don't couple them with reasoning and facts?

In other words, why do you seem to dislike Pelosi so much?

Pelosi is one of the most effective politicians in our lifetimes, thus the attacks on her.

Some on our side fall for the nonsense.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:54 pm 
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She's my rep, I just voted for her, and will do so if she runs again in 2 years. If anybody wants to blame me for Nancy Pelosi, that's fine. She's an easy target for wrath; has been for as long as I can remember. Same for DiFi. I don't have time for it, tbh.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:00 pm 
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She's my rep, I just voted for her, and will do so if she runs again in 2 years. If anybody wants to blame me for Nancy Pelosi, that's fine. She's an easy target for wrath; has been for as long as I can remember. Same for DiFi. I don't have time for it, tbh.

You have heard me talk about George, my lawyer SF friend.

He goes on and on how DiFi isnt liberal enough, and later told me what a great book was written about what a great guy and successful guy Rump is. Assume it was the lie "Art of the Deal" book.

I nearly broke off our friendship.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:03 pm 
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You have heard me talk about George, my lawyer SF friend.

He goes on and on how DiFi isnt liberal enough, and later told me what a great book was written about what a great guy and successful guy Rump is. Assume it was the lie "Art of the Deal" book.

I nearly broke off our friendship.


Meh. Yeah, DiFi has always been to the right of my personal politics, including her history in SF politics. Not a good reason to withhold my vote from her, though. And especially not in this midterm.

No way, Jose; no no, Nannette.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:08 pm 
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Obviously if I was in that district I'd vote for Pelosi. She's good insurance against the seat flipping. Remember that coalition does not imply agreement, except on very broad common goals.

I'm quite familiar with DiFi's origins and politics. My parents knew people up there and there were stories told.

I just voted for her in the primary.

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Last edited by ZoWie on Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:08 pm 
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Meh. Yeah, DiFi has always been to the right of my personal politics, including her history in SF politics. Not a good reason to withhold my vote from her, though. And especially not in this midterm.

No way, Jose; no no, Nannette.

Of course, NONE Of them are liberal enough for me given I want to do away with ownership of dirt, but if I stand alone and DEMAND my candidate be with me on that or any other extreme issue, it wont work for the collective which is my whole goal in the first place, so how stupid would I be? Pretty stupid.

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Obviously if I was in that district I'd vote for her. She's good insurance against the seat flipping.

I'm quite familiar with DiFi's origins and politics. My parents knew people up there and there were stories told.

I just voted for her in the primary.

Yeah, but can you see it isnt about that?

Every negative comment about ANY democratic politician in ANY social environment, whether that be the local pub, in line at the grocery store, on Twitter or RadioFreeLiberal.com , contributes to the ANTI voting sentiment Putin and the GOP work so hard for.

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"Corporate Democrat" phrase created at the same place "Angry Mob" was...People keep falling for rightwing talking points. How sad.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:27 pm 
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Democrats are a messy bunch in general, and they will have disagreements on tactics or whether the party leadership is out of touch. It's not impossible to see which ones are attempts to divide and conquer, as opposed to normal political differences. After a few weeks it became easy to see how the Berniebros became Berniebots, touched by no human hands. Etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:32 pm 
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Yeah, but can you see it isnt about that?

Every negative comment about ANY democratic politician in ANY social environment, whether that be the local pub, in line at the grocery store, on Twitter or RadioFreeLiberal.com , contributes to the ANTI voting sentiment Putin and the GOP work so hard for.

A couple years ago, I might have disagreed, but right now we're in a war--a political war, so everyone who's not a Trumpster is a friend and soldier on our side. So...

++++++

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:36 pm 
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A couple years ago, I might have disagreed, but right now we're in a war--a political war, so everyone who's not a Trumpster is a friend and soldier on our side. So...

++++++


Yeah, I have for a long time now seen that the other side are bad, period, no matter what and that until they were politically nonviable we simply didn't have the luxury of purity or whatever you call it.

For me it is partly my personal experience with a few of them in business. Liars, corrupt as hell. The stories I could tell.

Starting with Reagan really, who launched an all out war on working people. There has not been a single decent republican since then that had any power, not one. There were decent ones who had no voice or power, but even fewer of them now.

I mean like before McCain became one of the sane ones, remember "Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran?"

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:12 pm 
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Pelosi has cost the Democrats the Majority and they will continue to lose seats. That is the bottom line here.

Whatever value she may have had is gone. Like DiFi she not running for good of the People she represents, she is running to run.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Pelosi has cost the Democrats the Majority and they will continue to lose seats. That is the bottom line here.

Whatever value she may have had is gone. Like DiFi she not running for good of the People she represents, she is running to run.

Oh? She personally caused our loss of the House? Please tell us her technique so we can all avoid it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:30 pm 
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1) that Republicans don't like her and think she's too liberal (that's what they usually say) is one reason why I like her.
She is a founder of the Congressional Progressive Caucus ... BTW.

I really think, BTW, if by some weird twist of fate Ann Romney or Mother Theresa were the Democratic Minority Leader, you'd STILL be seeing Republicans running ads hating on her. Was there ever a Minority Leader they LIKED?

2) just a thought question. There's no doubt about it ... recent data show the Democratic party is in a bad ditch at the moment. I think Fareed Zakaria said we haven't been this bad off since the 1920s.

I know it's just been asked. Whose fault is it? Is it Pelosi's? Why her? Some say it's Obama's ... I mean, reality is, most of these losses occurred while Obama was president. Some people argue it's because Obama's OfA operation focused too much on re-electing himself personally, and not enough on supporting other Democrats.

BTW, my point here is, no I'm not trying to start another "Thanks Obama" meme thread. I'm just saying it may be hard to really lay the blame at any one person's feet. Yes, the party has clearly made mistakes. Now cue the wailing over which mistakes they are. "Too far to the left!" "Not enough support for moderates or in red states!" "Too much identity politics." :roll:

Or, maybe just maybe, this kind of correction will happen inevitably when you hold the presidency for 2 terms. Yes, I know, explanations like that don't let people hate the people they want to, or blame the strategies they reject ... c'est la vie.

3) I'm OK with new leadership. I just don't share the burning hunger to replace her either as Minority Leader or Speaker of the House (whichever it is after November.)

I just don't. BTW, if we have House and Senate majorities, I really hope she will move to impeach Trump, but I'm OK with her decision not to impeach Bush in 2006. I just am.

She was not lying when she said it would be a futile exercise ... and no, I don't see a point in engaging in feel-good futile exercises.

Whether it will be futile in late 2018 or next year... requires stuff I don't know yet, so I won't opine. That's just how I roll.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:13 pm 
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"Impeachment is off the table" is not the cause of the issues I have. It's more about calcification at the top. You look at what Ted Lieu, Maxine Waters, and Eric Swalwell are doing, and then you look at what she's doing, which is nothing.

Obviously I'm not going to pursue this further, due to the obvious need for party unity. I don't make problems worse unless they're Republicans' problems.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:34 pm 
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Opinions are fine. Actually opinion is about all there is when one thinks about it.

"All that exists are atoms and empty space. Everything else is opinion." - Democritus.

But beware of opinion when it gets in the way of doing what needs to get done.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:40 pm 
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Sometimes I read things and then I say FFS to myself. sigh

Ike, Hayden tweet, amazing

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